want to sell our Vidanta time share

[Pacane]

Hi,

What is the beat way to sell our timeshare?

 

[dioxide45]

This might be better asked in the Mexico forum. A lot of Vidanta experts over there.

 

[Eric B]

You might be able to get more replies on the subject in the Mexican Timesharing forum, but I'll chime in here. Vidanta has taken a number of steps to severely curtail the resale market for memberships; you have to bear in mind that what you have with them is a right to use (RTU) rather than ownership of an actual timeshare property. The way they structure this is with a contract that lasts for 10 years allowing you to book one week per year and requiring you to book one week in an initial year, probably 2022 for the Park Celebrate contracts. In addition, they provided a renewable certificate allowing you to book two weeks per year for 10 years that can be renewed 9 times to make it good for 100 years. Typically they also provide a number of addenda to the contract that would not transfer on sale of the membership, which can greatly diminish the usability to the purchaser. There is also a fairly high transfer fee, equal to the "closing costs" that were listed on your original contract.

All that being said, it is possible to sell them; just don't expect to get anything near what you paid for it. My understanding is that there are ways you could get around some of the sales restrictions, but it takes someone knowledgeable in how it can be done. The Mexican Timesharing forum is a great resource to read about Vidanta as is a different site, aimfair.com, and a closed Facebook group, Vidanta Owners.

 

[pittle]

Eric gave you some good advice.

The first thing you need to do is look at your contract and find the section called Assignment. That will tell you how many Maintenance Fees have to be paid to Vidanta in order to transfer your contract to someone. Since it is Celebrate Park, it will most likely be 10 MF, which means the first $12,000 or so goes directly to Vidanta. You will basically get nothing after the transfer fees are paid, so if you have the no pay unless you go option, you can just let it expire.

Also, like Eric said, read all you addendums to make sure they are transferable - if not, it will be even harder to find someone to buy it.

 

[geist1223]

Thus is a RTU. Doubt if this will sell for more than $0.00. Maybe better to just stop paying them anything.

 

[jssquared]

Agree with what Eric mentioned. However, I do believe that these contracts have to have some value. I know they are not an "ownership" structure, but they do provide for years of vacations to a beautiful resort. Any value would be determined by how the potential purchaser assigns a price to these future vacations relative to buying a new contract directly from the developer (Vidanta). If buying a "new" contract from Vidanta costs $100,000, then how much would someone pay to buy a "used" contract from an owner? Certainly not $100,000 but $75,000, $50,000, $25,000? The "used" contract absolutely still has value as the purchaser would still be able to benefit for, in some cases, decades upon decades, of use. Why would this not be like buying a used car? You still get the car, a few years into its usable life. With a Vidanta contract, you still get the exact contract (and exactly same resort and unit), just a few years into its usable life. Why would this not be appealing to a purchaser? I think there should be a concerted effort among owners to cultivate an active secondary marketplace.

 

[pittle]

Jssquared, read your entire packet. Ours says just to transfer to someone else it is 10 MF and if you have 2 registered Master Suites, that would be about $50,000 at the current MF - Vidanta gets that. Several of our Addendums specifically state that they do not transfer to any one but immediate family. That is why they do not have any resale value.

 

[jssquared]

Pittle - I have read my contract dozens of times - every word. We have been owners for well over a decade. The language regarding transfers is very different depending on your specific contract. Ours is much more favorable and is only a tiny fraction of a potential sale. Agreed that a Mayan Palace, Grand Mayan or Grand Bliss sale make the transaction problematic. But, higher level Grand Luxxe and Estates contracts are sold by Vidanta for hundreds of thousands of dollars per 1+2. The transfer fee on a sale of a larger contract is probably less than a typical real estate broker would make. I am NOT trying to argue that there is an active market. I am NOT trying to argue that one should buy a timeshare contract for a resale - DO NOT DO THIS!!!!. What I am saying, is that if Vidanta owners have paid six or seven figures for contracts, that there should be a demand (which there currently is not) on the secondary market for resales. If a new owner would have to pay Vidanta $350,000 for a 4 bedroom Estates contract, why would they not look at a secondary listing for half that price? It would be a massive savings and they would get a contract that has most but not all of the same features. People make a decision to pay less for a similar product with fewer features all the time. The biggest stumbling block is the transferability of the residence weeks (these are called by different names in different contracts), but as Eric said, there are options.

 

[tschwa2]

What I am saying, is that if Vidanta owners have paid six or seven figures for contracts, that there should be a demand (which there currently is not) on the secondary market for resales. If a new owner would have to pay Vidanta $350,000 for a 4 bedroom Estates contract, why would they not look at a secondary listing for half that price? It would be a massive savings and they would get a contract that has most but not all of the same features. People make a decision to pay less for a similar product with fewer features all the time. The biggest stumbling block is the transferability of the residence weeks (these are called by different names in different contracts), but as Eric said, there are options.

Most people don't plop down $350,000 for a 4 BR estates contract. By the time they get to that point they probably have upgraded 3-4 times or more from lower contracts paying the difference each time. Resales don't accept trade ins. Also those that have upgraded several times have a bunch of custom addendums which you can't get with resale and the ones negotiated by the original owner likely are written so they won't transfer to a resale owner either.

Did you look into the resale market before buying into Grand Luxxe and if so why not?

 

[jssquared]

Again, I am NOT promoting buying a timeshare for a resale. I am NOT lamenting the fact that we can't sell our contract. We have owned for years and have bought both on the secondary market and from the developer. We have upgraded many, many times. We have every addendum possible.
My only point, is that there should be a secondary market at some price. I simply disagree with people who say that Vidanta Grand Luxxe Residence and above contracts are worthless if sold person to person. tschwa - the cost for an upgrade from, for example, Grand Luxxe 4 bedroom to Estates 4 bedroom is at least a six figure upgrade. If there is a non-owner who stays in a 4 bedroom Estates unit as part of a rental or as a guest of an owner and want to buy, they have two options: buy from the developer or buy on the secondary market. Buying a 4 bedroom Estates from Vidanta will cost $350k at once (If they go to the developer with a $350,000 check, I am sure Vidanta will figure out something to sell them) or will be a multi-year process of upgrade after upgrade. Or, they can try to find a contract on the secondary market for some percentage of $350,000. My only point, is that there is some price where this potential buyer would say, "it is a better deal for me to buy a lesser contract on the secondary market for X price, then the fully priced contract from Vidanta."
There are some sites online that provide a marketplace for timeshare contracts (TUG included). Many of these are much lower level. Just think there is an opportunity for a higher end marketplace.

 

[Pathways]

Again, I am NOT promoting buying a timeshare for a resale. I am NOT lamenting the fact that we can't sell our contract. We have owned for years and have bought both on the secondary market and from the developer. We have upgraded many, many times. We have every addendum possible.
My only point, is that there should be a secondary market at some price. I simply disagree with people who say that Vidanta Grand Luxxe Residence and above contracts are worthless if sold person to person. tschwa - the cost for an upgrade from, for example, Grand Luxxe 4 bedroom to Estates 4 bedroom is at least a six figure upgrade. If there is a non-owner who stays in a 4 bedroom Estates unit as part of a rental or as a guest of an owner and want to buy, they have two options: buy from the developer or buy on the secondary market. Buying a 4 bedroom Estates from Vidanta will cost $350k at once (If they go to the developer with a $350,000 check, I am sure Vidanta will figure out something to sell them) or will be a multi-year process of upgrade after upgrade. Or, they can try to find a contract on the secondary market for some percentage of $350,000. My only point, is that there is some price where this potential buyer would say, "it is a better deal for me to buy a lesser contract on the secondary market for X price, then the fully priced contract from Vidanta."
There are some sites online that provide a marketplace for timeshare contracts (TUG included). Many of these are much lower level. Just think there is an opportunity for a higher end marketplace.

As someone who had multiple contracts, (mayan, grand mayan), I was interested last year in obtaining a GL contract. I engaged MULTIPLE sellers to purchase same for a reasonable cost based on the owner's offering, (including two from broker's).

Every one of them (100%) was not as advertised. Ultimately, after contact with Vidanta and getting in writing the costs to transfer and what addendums actually transfer, buying direct from Vidanta became the only option. (Unless you roll the dice with an owner who will simply add your name to their contract, with the intent of removing the original owner's name at some point in the future, a dicey proposition in my opinion)

So, you are correct in that there is a 'value' on every contract. That value to me was simple - seller pays all the transfer fees and then whatever is left on the contract (after none of the long term addendums transfer) is simply 1+ years of usage, always less than ten as that is what most of the contracts in the last ten years have in the terms. Then a value can be placed on those remaining weeks

At the end of the day, that makes all these contract unsellable, as no owner will pony up the fee. And only a buyer using less than due diligence would pay all the fees to transfer a contract that essentially has only a few years left.

 

[Pathways]

Buying a 4 bedroom Estates from Vidanta will cost $350k at once (If they go to the developer with a $350,000 check,

I would like to say NO ONE would ever pony up that kind of money all at once for a timeshare, but I might be offending someone on the forum. But clearly, from any investment angle, for some one to consider this, they would be advised that their investment would be better spent buying 350K in lottery tickets.

As tschwa2 says, these are 'sold' to people who have already spent huge amounts of money over the years, a medium size chunk at a time. There is always a 'better' product for sale (See 'timeshare sales 101') and ego to 'have the best' gets in the way of reasoning.

 

[jssquared]

Pathways - I very much appreciate the insight. I can tell you with 1,000,000% certainty that there are dozens and dozens, if not hundreds and hundreds, of owners at Vidanta that have paid WAY more than $100,000 at one time. I have heard from several sources that there are some that have even paid in excess of $1,000,000 at one time. I should clarify that "at one time" means at one purchase or upgrade. Typically, the actual cash payments are made over a period of one to two years depending on the financing offers extended by Vidanta. In particular, the jump to the larger Estates units from any Grand Luxxe level is probably a six figure upgrade,

 

[Pathways]

Pathways - I very much appreciate the insight. I can tell you with 1,000,000% certainty that there are dozens and dozens, if not hundreds and hundreds, of owners at Vidanta that have paid WAY more than $100,000 at one time. I have heard from several sources that there are some that have even paid in excess of $1,000,000 at one time. I should clarify that "at one time" means at one purchase or upgrade. Typically, the actual cash payments are made over a period of one to two years depending on the financing offers extended by Vidanta. In particular, the jump to the larger Estates units from any Grand Luxxe level is probably a six figure upgrade,

It's all relative, right? Even some on this forum have spent in excess of 100k at once to achieve a certain ownership outcome. But there was some thinking involved in that decision where the long term payoff was considered.

Of course with Vidanta, a sale of 100k means they told the 'buyer' the product was actually worth 350k, but with multiple discounts their 'special' price was a 'once is a lifetime opportunity'. I mean, hey, we only are building six of these, your opportunity will never come again! But of course, they are already planning the next units, which will be called something else in order to keep their salespeople 'honest'

 

[jssquared]

I think 15% is about the discounted value - list price to purchase price. $100,000 list ends up with a purchase of $15k.

 

[pittle]

We have owned timeshares at 8 properties since 1991. We sold four for a $7631 loss over the years - 3 had been some we bought on eBay just to be able to exchange. The one we lost the most on ($6000) was our first one we bought in Hawaii from the resort. We sold these after we found Vidanta and Buganvilias and loved them both. We also bought at 2 timeshares that went belly-up after a few years and we lost about $40,000 with those. So we do not look at the money we put into the RTU timeshares as investments.

We now have Vidanta Grand Luxxe, Buganvilias Imperial Sky Suite,and Pueblo Bonito Emerald Bay (this is our exchanger). We bought our first Mayan Palace in 1999 and bought several Mayan Palace weeks resale on eBay when they were just 1 MF to transfer. We traded 3 of those in for two 2-bedroom Grand Mayan units. in 2006. We got the Senior Certificates in February 2007 and at the same time were given the no pay unless you go on the GM contract and 3 other contracts. We had one other resale purchase in the works, so did not get Senior Cert & no pay on that one.

By 2013, we decided we did not need as many weeks since we moved to AZ and did not need to go to a warm climate in the winter anymore. So we traded all in and now own two Grand Luxxe Master Suites (2+4). We still have our Senior Certificates which are now active, so for 2020 & 2021 we can go for 1/2 price. Starting in 2022, we can go 2 weeks each year (or split into 4 weeks at Grand Bliss) and not pay MF. So, basically we consider that what we have paid to buy Vidanta properties over our 22 years will be reduced significantly by getting to stay 1/2 price or free for the next 10-12 years. (We have not invested $100,000 at Vidanta.)

Our extended family has enjoyed staying on all of the properties over the years. The reason I bought so many weeks in the 2000's was so that we could go for 4 weeks and have family join us for 2 of them and have their own space. We always want each couple to have their own bedroom and bathroom. I often used VF weeks to get extra or and make exchanges.