W57 vs NYC Hotel -- Is there value?

[tah]

Greetings. First time poster contemplating an initial HGVC purchase (resale). I've asked a couple current W57 owners on this forum some specific questions (thanks for your responses), but I have some general questions about "value" and would appreciate insight from non-NYC owners who have used their points for a NYC stay.

Background: I have a wife and 2 "adult" children and live in a DC suburb. Wife and I work full-time -- me for another couple of years; wife for longer (as she actually enjoys her job). My primary interest in an HGVC purchase is to use it in NYC a few times a year -- initially for weekends; longer term for weekdays. Being in DC, we can travel flexibly by train -- not sure we ever make plans greater than 60 days in advance. Other than NYC travel, I can see using the points once every 5 years to go somewhere else in the system -- we don't generally vacation at the same place over and over.

Options:

• Do Nothing: Continue to say in hotels in NYC averaging $330/night (inclusive of tax). We are currently "Hilton" people and there are many many midtown choices in NYC. The Homewood Suites or HGI on W37th is perfectly acceptable to us.

• Buy W57: The MF alone are $0.30 per point so that makes a platinum weekend night at least $315. That's before amortized purchase cost and club fees which can raise the costs to $0.40 - $0.45 point ($420-475/night). Is a studio at W57 worth the premium over a room at the Homewood Suites?

• Buy Low MF elsewhere and reserve within 60 days: Now this is affordable at $0.25 per point ($262/night). But is there truly availability risk? And many times I can find a hotel for that price (depends on time of year). So there is still the W57 premium question.

• Blended purchase: W57 for access and Low MF points for increased staying power. The min platinum W57 unit is 5250 points (5 weekend nights) and the cost effective Low MF units seem to be in the 7000 point range (7 more weekend nights). So I can blend a $330/night average for 6 weekends. But now I'm prepaying for something I can get flexibly ($330/night in a NYC hotel) for maybe more weekends that I would normally go.

I know value is subjective -- I'm seeking opinions. Emotionally I want to do this, but intellectually I'm holding myself back. I don't want to start with Low MF purchase only to find Club availability in NYC lacking -- but that's what the numbers tell me to do. Maybe I blend a W57 purchase with open season rates at W57 (anyone with experience using those?).

Thanks in advance for the opinions and advice. And sorry for the long post.

 

[SmithOp]

I’ve stayed at W57 using my non-NYC points, booked via RCI, which is another way to get in there. My cost was under $200/night because I have very low cost HGV points and it was a short 3 day mid week stay.

It was a studio, no better than a hotel room at one of the other Hiltons you mentioned staying in.

My experience is its not worth owning in NYC because I live on West Coast and rarely visit, YMMV.

NYC owners will probably say its worth it because they get access to the owners lounge, I did not with my exchange.

Open Season rates just took a big jump, see the other thread about that, it may not be cheaper than a hotel.


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[brp]

Welcome! Excellent question.

As a W. 57th owner, I can give my viewpoint. I find the property to be a better experience than Homewood or HGI (although they are also perfectly acceptable to us as well), and worth the premium. The owner's lounge adds ambiance, even if I can't say that the dollar value of it makes sense economically. There is certainly an emotional "feel" component as well. So, we own W. 57th so that we can book early to get what we want and use the lounge.

We are also West Coast, but visit 2-3 times/year (I'm originally from NYC and love going back). Definitely, if you won't go often enough, it's not worth. And definitely not worth using these points anywhere else.

If I looked at the pure economics of staying in NYC, we could do it for less.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

In addition to the lounge, the advantage of owning is that you also have early reservation access to larger and nicer units which would cost a lot more than $300/night if you got the equivalent at a hotel. We regularly upgrade to a 1 bedroom or larger view unit (or could even stay in a penthouse, but haven't done so yet). Cannot do that consistently (if at all) if you trade in during club season.

Don't just compare the W57 studio because you can get much more expensive unit with your owner points. You pay for an apple but get a gold-plated orange.

 

[tombanjo]

a few observations

1) Studio is two people, so kids stay home or you need to book second room
2) $1576 / 7 days is $225 a night - not including club dues. (5250 pts studio platinum)
3) It is high demand, but spots come and go if you constantly watch. So depending on your need to plan, grabbing something once you see it and then making it your vacation, rather than saying I can take vacation on such and such a day, and then trying to book rooms, might work. I needed a Saturday in December and took two weeks of checking to get it. (30 days out)
4) Its a nice location and members get lounge access which I like as it makes breakfast simple and drinks\appetizers at night are nice too. You could stay in Newark and take a train for a few hours back and forth and save $100 a day, or wake up in Midtown and walk to museums and theaters. I am exaggerating slightly, but the point is location is worth something.
5) Low season hotels can be cheaper. But in season hotels in that location are very expensive.
6) 6 week end nights would hit the 7,000 pt mark, but I think those units are hard to find and much more than the studio units. Weekends are the hot days. People want to weekend in the city and therefore they book the weekends ASAP.
7) My strategy is the blended (points, not open season). Own there and own cheap points to compliment. The thing with open season, if it is available, you could use cheap points as well. Though if you don't have points, it is a reasonable rate. ($283 for studio)
8) Stays three days or less incur the $85 housekeeping fee. So week end only trips are more expensive.

My decision was to own in NYC as I am a more short term planner than long term. I want the slightly protected ability to book as an owner rather than fight in club season. I wanted NYC as my go to destination and was willing to commit to it to make sure I had an edge as well as the amenities.

 

[brp]

6) 6 week end nights would hit the 7,000 pt mark, but I think those units are hard to find and much more than the studio units. Weekends are the hot days. People want to weekend in the city and therefore they book the weekends ASAP.

This is alos worth noting: Weekend nights cost 2X the points of weekday. We are not that long from retirement and then will likely target mid-week. Flights are cheaper and rooms are half-price. This will surely not work for everyone, but it's in our game plan.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@tombanjo brings up a good point. Owning and owning cheap club points to complement is a good strategy and you can use cheap points during open season. As an owner you still get lounge access even though you used cheap points during club season. Whereas if you only owned club and traded in you don't get access.

But owning and augmenting with Open season also could work if you are flexible. Being on the East Coast, you might be able to take advantage of this (wouldn't work for us in Calif due to airfares.) I just don't know what's available given there is not much left during club season.

Below are Open Season Rates for W57. You can get a 1 bedroom Premier (high floor, view) for $302/night plat and $289/night gold on weekends and $295 plat/$253 gold weekdays. Won't get anywhere near that rate in NYC for an equivalent 1 bdrm. For example the London Conrad has 1 bdrm units that start at $550 (low floor) but to get a view you are paying $770 to $1200/night.

The Hilton Garden Inns are running $280 for the same weekend for a basic hotel room.
Which would you prefer for $300/night? a 1 bdrm high floor view at W57? or HGI basic hotel room?

Many of these hotels also charge resort fees which you wouldn't get as an owner. For example, we stayed at the Doubletree at Times Square and had a $25 fee every day. This adds to your cost.

BTW...I just found a typo on this page (Open season says "15 days" but the top of the page says "30 days")

 

[pianodinosaur]

@tah had an excellent question and I have learned a great deal from your replies. We own HGVC properties in Orlando and Las Vegas. There are numerous hotels in both locations. We usually vacation with another couple and therefore find the timeshare accommodations superior and more economical for a seven day trip. We normally stay in hotel rooms for five day trips using HHONORS redemptions. However, booking five week days at an HGVC facility is an excellent way to stretch HGVC points as the weekends are more costly.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Timeshare rule #1 is generally BUY where you intend to STAY the most. Then rule #2 is to buy resale.

I think a hybrid approach is a good idea as it gives you the best of both worlds and you may want to explore other areas besides NYC such as Chicago, Hawaii, Las Vegas, Miami, Orlando, etc.

Buying NYC is a good idea if it fits your travel plans and it tends to hold resale value well and is easy to sell if you change your mind.

I personally think the owners lounge is not that big of a deal and certainly not worth the price of buying W57 just to get it, but others here will argue that point. Also, check out the other NYC properties to see if they offer what you are looking for.

 

[brp]

Timeshare rule #1 is generally BUY where you intend to STAY the most. Then rule #2 is to buy resale.

Very true in some systems (DVC, for example). Also true, I believe, for some HGVC properties (NYC, maybe some other bHC). But, for the rest of HGVC, unless one will use Home Week, this is an irrelevant consideration.Points are points in regular HGVC barring Home Week.

For example the London Conrad has 1 bdrm units that start at $550 (low floor) but to get a view you are paying $770 to $1200/night.

As a side note, we just stayed there for 3 nights over Thanksgiving. Very underwhelming. Based on reviews, I was expecting quite a bit more and, other than a superb location, it was really just OK. Not what I would use as a comparison standard

 

[tah]

Thanks for replies, the good information, and the additional perspectives. I have a need, now, for some clarifying questions.

The $85 cleaning fee for stays of less than 3 nights is unique to W57? Does it apply to Owners and Club Members alike?

The bHC properties, other than branding and possibly some shared characteristics, have no multilateral advantages between them? I see some bilateral bHC reservation windows, but nothing multilateral. IOW from the perspective of W57, someone staying at W57 is either an owner of W57 or just an HGVC club member. (Owning at the bHC in Charleston, for example, is of no particular benefit when trying to stay at W57) ?

Open Season rates: they say they are routinely only for the owners of the specific bHC properties but that HGVC "may" make them available for owners of all properties to control inventory. Anyone know if this "may" is ever reality?

 

[brp]

Thanks for replies, the good information, and the additional perspectives. I have a need, now, for some clarifying questions.

The $85 cleaning fee for stays of less than 3 nights is unique to W57? Does it apply to Owners and Club Members alike?

Yup, hits all of us.

The bHC properties, other than branding and possibly some shared characteristics, have no multilateral advantages between them? I see some bilateral bHC reservation windows, but nothing multilateral. IOW from the perspective of W57, someone staying at W57 is either an owner of W57 or just an HGVC club member. (Owning at the bHC in Charleston, for example, is of no particular benefit when trying to stay at W57) ?

I can never keep all of this straight, but I think bHC owners at some places have advantages at others compared to regular HGVC. But they are an arcane mix of rules and I can never keep it straight.

Cheers.

 

[tombanjo]

Hilton Club New York is the original and unique NYC location in the HGVC universe, with owner only availability. You can book any number of days, and no fee for short stays. No club season. Downsides are it is older, in a giant hotel, and has its own club dues - no reservation fees though. Has it's own lounge. One interesting bit is some deeds expire in 2032. Meaning they go "poof" and you no longer own anything, which may be a blessing or a curse.

W57th was next, being the first purpose built timeshare in NYC. Book any amount of days, but has the $85 short stay housekeeping fee. Has club season, you can opt for the higher club dues with free reservations and has extra 15 day window for "bHC" (By Hilton Club) properties. Has it's own lounge

'bHC" - The newest entry with Residences as the New York entry, soon Quin and Central in NY, and District in DC. There are others and some currently announced\planned. Residences are the absolute top floors above HCNY and completed a few years ago with their own lounge. Has club season, and the extra 15 day window where you can use your bHC points to book other clubs (except HCNY) before club season starts.

With the entry of Quin and Central NYC locations, there will be much greater availability in NYC, but, all club locations which require membership to have lounge access and large, first booking windows. I think a sales strategy might be to get existing w57 and HCNY owners to upgrade to the newest properties, but how that affects the resale market is hard to gauge. People who own Las Vegas get weekend at Quin, can't swing the new developer price, offered "bargain" on existing inventory - may cause retail prices to move up if demand increases and HGVC has new audience for older inventory. Who knows.

 

[hurnik]

The only thing I'd add is that your option #3 seems high for MF at $0.25/point. Unless you were maybe looking at a free 4800/5000 point in Florida. Most of the Vegas properties are less, although depends on how many points you want and which location.

I live in NY (state, not the city), and when we visit NY, it's usually for 2 nights max. given that we can hop the train from Albany, the leftovers are usually fine for us, however, most of the time, by the time I pay the booking fee, and the $85 cleaning charge, I can either get a Hilton hotel stay for less (and free breakfast since I'm Diamond by virtue of Aspire card) or stay at the other HGV location for less. Yes, we do like the W57 location, but when it's like $150-200 more than a hotel w/free breakfast .....

 

[brp]

I can either get a Hilton hotel stay for less (and free breakfast since I'm Diamond by virtue of Aspire card)

Not at Hilton Midtown, anyway. Lousy lounge breakfast is free (and not even worth that) and the upcharge is $18 (maybe more now) for real breakfast. Then there's the Urban Destination charge.
Other options likely better.

Cheers.

 

[hurnik]

Not at Hilton Midtown, anyway. Lousy lounge breakfast is free (and not even worth that) and the upcharge is $18 (maybe more now) for real breakfast. Then there's the Urban Destination charge.
Other options likely better.

Cheers.

The Hilton Garden Inn at Times Square used to have a fairly decent buffet breakfast with scrambled eggs, omelet, pancakes, etc.
Small eating area, but then again the whole hotel is small (LOL). Although we had a nice view of the area where they drop the ball for NY Eve.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Biggest question for OP. Are you content with a basic HGI hotel room with resort fees? Or would you like to use your points or OS to stay in in a 1 bdrms or bigger Studio Premier with a view for about the same price - but would be cost prohibitive if you rented.

Stop comparing studios to studios. We always use our studio plus points to upgrade. Compare Hotel room to 1 bedrooms and studio premiers because that's be best bang for your studio points. Also we like that returning there feels like a second home and we are greeted as such in the lobby and the lounge vs. some random hotel lobby. The proximity to central park is also valuable. If you don't care about these attributes don't buy.

 

[alwysonvac]

But let’s not forget to mention that Open Season rates at West 57th was just reduced for next year in 2020. Here are the Open Season Rates for West 57th for 2018 & 2019 (see below).

JMHO...I believe the OS rates were reduced at West 57th due to the two new properties in NYC (The Quin Central Park and The Central at 5th). HGV wants to make these new properties more appealing to potential buyers. I would expect OS rates to return to these highs once again.

 

[brp]

But let’s not forget to mention that Open Season rates at West 57th was just reduced for next year in 2020. Here are the Open Season Rates for West 57th for 2018 & 2019 (see below).

JMHO...I believe the OS rates were reduced at West 57th due to the two new properties in NYC (The Quin Central Park and The Central at 5th). HGV wants to make these new properties more appealing to potential buyers. I would expect OS rates to return to these highs once again.

We don't use Open season rates, so I'm not sure of the rule details. Do owners at a given property have any advantage in OS reservations? If not, it would seem that the OS rates are an orthogonal discussion to owning versus now owning at W. 57th. If there are differences based on ownership, though, it could certainly be applicable.

Cheers.

 

[alwysonvac]

West 57th Street is very nice. I had a recent stay with extended family using ClubPoints. I booked two studios and a one bedroom for a few nights this summer before my nieces headed back to school. I can see the appeal. It’s almost ten years since my last stay at West 57th. The rooms were well maintained and fresh. And everyone was very nice.

West 57th is not for the person who is looking to save money over hotel rates. You’ll probably spend more than you would for a normal hotel room. This is really for a frequent NYC visitor who is willing to pay more for a better overall experience and service. You won’t have to constantly check the TripAdvisor reviews searching for hotels that have been recently renovated and which ones have fewer complaints and so on. It will be a worry free stay. As CalGalTraveler put it, you’ll have a feeling of coming home. But it won’t come at a bargain .

 

[Denise L]

I just returned home from a long weekend at W57. I love NYC and love the W57 location. I started off renting points for a stay in 2014, then learned how to trade into NYC via RCI. I have also stayed at Hilton Club in the renovated rooms, and Manhattan Club, too. Finally bought HGVC Elara points to use to stay at W57, and then bought W57 because I wanted to own in NY. Definitely not cheaper to own there (DH said it didn't make any sense financially), but I bought a studio week anyway . It was nice to book a popular holiday weekend without any worry. Perfect weekend in NYC. The tree, the decorations, the holiday fairs, plus six shows.

W57 is definitely like home. I sleep well there and never have to worry about anything. I enjoy the lounge in the evenings. Breakfast offerings are almost always the same, so sometimes I go out to breakfast instead for a change of pace. I like the coffee/espresso/tea options during the day, especially during this trip when it was cooler out. The elevator is usually very quick compared to hotels. I'd consider buying another week if I could because I love NYC.

 

[brp]

West 57th is not for the person who is looking to save money over hotel rates. You’ll probably spend more than you would for a normal hotel room. This is really for a frequent NYC visitor who is willing to pay more for a better overall experience and service. You won’t have to constantly check the TripAdvisor reviews searching for hotels that have been recently renovated and which ones have fewer complaints and so on. It will be a worry free stay. As CalGalTraveler put it, you’ll have a feeling of coming home. But it won’t come at a bargain .

Agreed. There are definitely lower-end accommodations in NYC that will cost less than this. But that's also the case where one gets a hotel room. Higher-end, costlier places and lower-end, cheaper places.

I do feel that owning at W. 57th provides something of a savings, even if not substantial, over booking an accommodation of the same quality with cash.

Cheers.

 

[Cyberc]

We normally stay in hotel rooms for five day trips using HHONORS redemptions. However, booking five week days at an HGVC facility is an excellent way to stretch HGVC points as the weekends are more costly.

Just to clarify, the cheaper days at any HGVC resort runs from Monday-Thursday. Friday-Sunday are 2 x points of week days.

[QUOTE="DazedandConfused, post: 2365547, member: 57483"]

Buying NYC is a good idea if it fits your travel plans and it tends to hold resale value well and is easy to sell if you change your mind.

I personally think the owners lounge is not that big of a deal and certainly not worth the price of buying W57 just to get it, but others here will argue that point. Also, check out the other NYC properties to see if they offer what you are looking for.[/QUOTE]

Agree dont buy West 57th for the lounge access it self or any other timeshare solely for the access to the lounge. Buy if you like the property, the location, the added reservation window, lounge access etc.

We own at West 57th and really enjoy it.

Can we book during regular club season? sure we could chance it and maybe get what we want. Since we tend to book airfare 6-10months in advance we like to have the hotel stay in order as well. We are from Europe so short term planning is not our thing.

[QUOTE="CalGalTraveler, post: 2365730, member: 79547"]Biggest question for OP. Are you content with a basic HGI hotel room with resort fees? Or would you like to use your points or OS to stay in in a 1 bdrms or bigger Studio Premier with a view for about the same price - but would be cost prohibitive if you rented.

Stop comparing studios to studios. We always use our studio plus points to upgrade. Compare Hotel room to 1 bedrooms and studio premiers because that's be best bang for your studio points. Also we like that returning there feels like a second home and we are greeted as such in the lobby and the lounge vs. some random hotel lobby. The proximity to central park is also valuable. If you don't care about these attributes don't buy.[/QUOTE]

Agree, hotel rooms dont compare to timeshare studio rooms as regular hotel rooms are smaller.

On another note, the short stay cleaning fee is for 3 days or less not just less than 3 days.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

But let’s not forget to mention that Open Season rates at West 57th was just reduced for next year in 2020. Here are the Open Season Rates for West 57th for 2018 & 2019 (see below).

JMHO...I believe the OS rates were reduced at West 57th due to the two new properties in NYC (The Quin Central Park and The Central at 5th). HGV wants to make these new properties more appealing to potential buyers. I would expect OS rates to return to these highs once again.


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Thanks @alwysonvac for pointing this out. Did not know that!

Did OS rates reduce for all NYC properties? or just W57? If just W57 that's strange because they are not selling W57 anymore. Are you saying that you think they are trying to get W57 owners to visit more so they could sell them an upgrade? Why wouldn't they just do a promo discounted stay which requires a presentation vs. just a visit. Puzzling...

The only ppl who can use OS in NYC are owners of the specific property, correct? So we could only use W57 but not Central at 5th or Quin unless we were owners?

Sounds like it might be worth considering OS for 2020 while it lasts.

 

[alwysonvac]

Thanks @alwysonvac for pointing this out. Did not know that!

Did OS rates reduce for all NYC properties? or just W57? If just W57 that's strange because they are not selling W57 anymore. Are you saying that you think they are trying to get W57 owners to visit more so they could sell them an upgrade? Why wouldn't they just do a promo discounted stay which requires a presentation vs. just a visit. Puzzling...

The only ppl who can use OS in NYC are owners of the specific property, correct? So we could only use W57 but not Central at 5th or Quin unless we were owners?

Sounds like it might be worth considering OS for 2020 while it lasts.

Yes, OS rates at West 57th is only available to home resort owners. And yes, you should take advantage of OS rates while their selling in NYC.

The OS rates seem to be consistent within a destination based on unit size. I noticed similar OS rates amongst the Orlando resorts, Vegas resorts, Carolina resorts, Oahu resorts, Big Island resorts and the two ski resorts (Valdoro and Sunrise). The two new NYC properties (Quinn Central Park and The Central at 5th) are new additions to HGVC’s Open Season document. West 57th Street currently reflects a similar rate as these two new properties. The exception is The Residences by Hilton Club.