Value of the Studio Portion of a Lock Off

[jbman]

Wondering how other people calculate their cost per week when locking off, I've just been basically dividing my overall cost by two and considering that the cost of each week.

For Grand Chateau it works out like this:

$1,576.23 MF + $89.00 Lock Off Fee + $99.00 Upgrade Fee x 3 + $164.00 Exchange Fee x 2 = $1,145.12 per week with a 50/50 split.

But the 1-BR certainly has more value than the Studio, as I can see some resorts with the 1-BR, but not the Studio, such as 2-BR's at Ko Olina and Waiohai in the Spring or 2-BR's at Aruba Surf Club in April .

If instead of apportioning the cost 50/50, we did a 60/40 split, that would give $1,374.14 for the 1-BR and $916.10 for the Studio.

Compare this to the cost of a 1-BR at Grand Chateau which has a MF of $1,107.52 + $99 Upgrade Fee + $164 Exchange Fee = $1,370.52 and maybe for some people the 1-BR does offer good value.

(Not sure if the 1-BR MF is accurate or not, I don't see it in the MF thread, I took from a Tochoa eBay ad)

 

[gravityrules]

Do you get ACs for these deposits? If so, and you're able to use them, your cost per week would be lower.

 

[Dean]

I generally use a 40/60 split as an approximation but I also consider the cost of unit size upgrades which would add another cost to the studio albeit $99 or less. For DVC it's 1/3 and 2/3.

 

[Hindsite]

The value comes in to play, with what you use it for and what the cost of what you would do if you didn't own the timeshare. What you have set out is the cost, not the benefit (aka value).

If you can get an exchange that has maint fees of $2k with the 1-bed or the 1-bed lock-off and you can't get what you want via other channels for less then both are good value. It might have been "better" value using the lock-off, but if you bought the 1-bed and not a lock-off that doesn't matter. Neither are good value if what you exchange into can be reasonably bought via other means for less than the cost. I'm excluding short notice II getaways or accom certs from "reasonably".

 

[jbman]

I generally use a 40/60 split as an approximation but I also consider the cost of unit size upgrades which would add another cost to the studio albeit $99 or less. For DVC it's 1/3 and 2/3.

So for that, you would take the MF and Lock Off Fee and split 60/40 then add the exchange fee and any applicable upgrade fees, if both upgraded to 2 BR's this gives $1,262.14 for the 1-BR side and $1,028.09 for the studio?

 

[jbman]

The value comes in to play, with what you use it for and what the cost of what you would do if you didn't own the timeshare. What you have set out is the cost, not the benefit (aka value).

If you can get an exchange that has maint fees of $2k with the 1-bed or the 1-bed lock-off and you can't get what you want via other channels for less then both are good value. It might have been "better" value using the lock-off, but if you bought the 1-bed and not a lock-off that doesn't matter. Neither are good value if what you exchange into can be reasonably bought via other means for less than the cost. I'm excluding short notice II getaways or accom certs from "reasonably".

Part of why I'm asking is I've been wondering about the value of the Studio side since I bought a Vacation Village at Williamsburg week, which is $779 a week (half of $1,080 MF plus $239 exchange fee, no lock off or upgrade fees needed), the Marriott has good value with the preference period and so will be able to get exchanges I can't get with the VVW, but if the Studio side can't see the exchanges that I would need preference for, is it more valuable than a VVW week.

 

[jwalk03]

I use a 60/40 calculation

 

[dioxide45]

I just use the 50/50 split. Years ago my calculation was more nuanced based on the 1BR pulling more, but I don't really put as much thought into it anymore. 50% is easier to figure out with quick math.

 

[jmhpsu93]

I just use the 50/50 split. Years ago my calculation was more nuanced based on the 1BR pulling more, but I don't really put as much thought into it anymore. 50% is easier to figure out with quick math.

I think you're the one who convinced me to go with 50/50 and it'll be less complicated.

 

[Dean]

So for that, you would take the MF and Lock Off Fee and split 60/40 then add the exchange fee and any applicable upgrade fees, if both upgraded to 2 BR's this gives $1,262.14 for the 1-BR side and $1,028.09 for the studio?

I'd use $1000 for the 1 BR and $750 roughly for the studio but I wouldn't sweat the exact dollars. I'd ignore the exchange fee since it should be applicable for them separately. For the studio I'd only count one size upgrade. That basically makes the 1 BR and studio the same from a cost/value standpoint. As noted, what you actually get does end up determining your exchange value so this is somewhat more applicable if you're going to rent and the principles would flow across resorts in general. Keep in mind your chances of success for many exchange options are better with the 1 BR and better still with a 2 BR.

 

[5finny]

Marriott Grande Chateau (GC) is PLATINUM (PLT) weeks 1-51
A person owning only 1 enrolled unit at Marriott Aruba Resort ( or another resort) and wanting to be eligible for the 13 month plus booking window could buy a Grand Chateau unit to qualify
They would have to make their reservations in both ownerships concurrent or consecutive
If both ownerships were two bedroom and locked off I think they could book 13 months + 3 weeks out
Based upon current Ebay ads and my recollection of past Ebay sales a 1 BR GC with MAINTENANCE (MTN) FEES of $1,108 per annum could be purchased for about $1350 all in and a 2 BR GC with MTN FEES of $1576 could be purchased for about $2000-$2,500 all in.
The GC week would be unenrolled and would need a private II account.
Assuming one paid for a 5 year II account ($396 total or $79 a year) and upgraded to II PLAT ($556 total or $111 a year)for a total annual average of $190 per year for a full platinum membership cost
THEN:
2 vacation weeks with a 2BR GC would cost
$1576 MTN FEES +$190 MEMBERSHIP FEES + 1 $89 LOCK OFF FEE + 2 MARRIOTT/VISTANA-MARRIOTT/VISTANA EXCHANGE FEES $328 ($164 x 2) + 3 unit size II PLT upgrade fees $177 ($59 x 3 ) + 2 EPLUS FEES $178 ($89 x2 ) For a Total of $2538 for two weeks or $1269 per week
Just an example and actual costs could vary

 

[Hindsite]

Part of why I'm asking is I've been wondering about the value of the Studio side since I bought a Vacation Village at Williamsburg week, which is $779 a week (half of $1,080 MF plus $239 exchange fee, no lock off or upgrade fees needed), the Marriott has good value with the preference period and so will be able to get exchanges I can't get with the VVW, but if the Studio side can't see the exchanges that I would need preference for, is it more valuable than a VVW week.

OK, so you're really wanting to find out the relative trading power of your Studio and VVW, and then compare the costs of each to see which is more cost effective for a given exchange.
The MVC preference period is a bit of a distraction as it impacts the timing of the effectiveness of Trading Power. If your VVW could reliably pull the MVC exchanges you want, but you might not get a match until 3-6 months before check-in, vs the MVC studio could get it at 9-12months before check-in, how much $$ is the MVC preference worth to you?

 

[jbman]

OK, so you're really wanting to find out the relative trading power of your Studio and VVW, and then compare the costs of each to see which is more cost effective for a given exchange.
The MVC preference period is a bit of a distraction as it impacts the timing of the effectiveness of Trading Power. If your VVW could reliably pull the MVC exchanges you want, but you might not get a match until 3-6 months before check-in, vs the MVC studio could get it at 9-12months before check-in, how much $$ is the MVC preference worth to you?

Certainly that is one thing I have been trying to work out, but my question was more about the other side of the coin and trying to put a value on the 1-BR portion of the lock off to try and compare it to the value of another trader that could get top tier exchanges.

With a 50/50 split of the lock off, paying ~$1,150 for the 1-BR side to trade into a 2-BR in Hawaii is tough to beat, but undersells the value of the 1-BR and oversells the value of the Studio, by how much though?

Maybe my question is what is the most affordable way to trade into a 2-BR Marriott in Hawaii?

Instead of getting a 2-BR Lock Off, maybe it would actually be more affordable to just get a 1-BR Grand Chateau unit and pay $1,370.52 per week and not worry about the Studio?

Same idea with a 2-BR Phuket Beach Club which I believe has MF of $1,150, so the cost of the week would be $1,314 with the Exchange Fee.

Or perhaps there is a different lock off which has higher maintenance fees than Grand Chateau, but the studio can pull those 2-BR Hawaii units.

Marriott Grande Chateau (GC) is PLATINUM (PLT) weeks 1-51
A person owning only 1 enrolled unit at Marriott Aruba Resort ( or another resort) and wanting to be eligible for the 13 month plus booking window could buy a Grand Chateau unit to qualify
They would have to make their reservations in both ownerships concurrent or consecutive
If both ownerships were two bedroom and locked off I think they could book 13 months + 3 weeks out
Based upon current Ebay ads and my recollection of past Ebay sales a 1 BR GC with MAINTENANCE (MTN) FEES of $1,108 per annum could be purchased for about $1350 all in and a 2 BR GC with MTN FEES of $1576 could be purchased for about $2000-$2,500 all in.
The GC week would be unenrolled and would need a private II account.
Assuming one paid for a 5 year II account ($396 total or $79 a year) and upgraded to II PLAT ($556 total or $111 a year)for a total annual average of $190 per year for a full platinum membership cost
THEN:
2 vacation weeks with a 2BR GC would cost
$1576 MTN FEES +$190 MEMBERSHIP FEES + 1 $89 LOCK OFF FEE + 2 MARRIOTT/VISTANA-MARRIOTT/VISTANA EXCHANGE FEES $328 ($164 x 2) + 3 unit size II PLT upgrade fees $177 ($59 x 3 ) + 2 EPLUS FEES $178 ($89 x2 ) For a Total of $2538 for two weeks or $1269 per week
Just an example and actual costs could vary

The numbers were already getting a bit tricky to think about, so I didn't want to include II fees or e-plus or up front costs to simplify it, but absolutely you're right the actual cost of the week is higher than what I set out and would depend on other factors such as whether your platinum or not, purchase e-plus or not and whether you are spreading the cost of the II membership over however many weeks you own.

 

[Dean]

Certainly that is one thing I have been trying to work out, but my question was more about the other side of the coin and trying to put a value on the 1-BR portion of the lock off to try and compare it to the value of another trader that could get top tier exchanges.

With a 50/50 split of the lock off, paying ~$1,150 for the 1-BR side to trade into a 2-BR in Hawaii is tough to beat, but undersells the value of the 1-BR and oversells the value of the Studio, by how much though?

Maybe my question is what is the most affordable way to trade into a 2-BR Marriott in Hawaii?

Instead of getting a 2-BR Lock Off, maybe it would actually be more affordable to just get a 1-BR Grand Chateau unit and pay $1,370.52 per week and not worry about the Studio?

Same idea with a 2-BR Phuket Beach Club which I believe has MF of $1,150, so the cost of the week would be $1,314 with the Exchange Fee.

Or perhaps there is a different lock off which has higher maintenance fees than Grand Chateau, but the studio can pull those 2-BR Hawaii units.



The numbers were already getting a bit tricky to think about, so I didn't want to include II fees or e-plus or up front costs to simplify it, but absolutely you're right the actual cost of the week is higher than what I set out and would depend on other factors such as whether your platinum or not, purchase e-plus or not and whether you are spreading the cost of the II membership over however many weeks you own.

Don't drive yourself crazy. Once you get a good handle on the options and possibilities, these issues will be far more clear. Right now you're still sorting it out. Since I generally don't rent, I don't worry much about the dollar amounts any more. What I do think about is getting what I need/want for the "cheapest" I possibly can. I always try to be guaranteeing my options by owning or using points and then supplementing with exchanges always trying to upgrade in at least one or 2 areas (resort quality, size, demand). Using GC for exchanges makes that pretty easy since most everything you do will be an upgrade in one way or another if you play the game reasonably.

 

[davidvel]

We have always considered it 1/3 & 2/3.

 

[Hindsite]

Maybe my question is what is the most affordable way to trade into a 2-BR Marriott in Hawaii?

Instead of getting a 2-BR Lock Off, maybe it would actually be more affordable to just get a 1-BR Grand Chateau unit and pay $1,370.52 per week and not worry about the Studio?

Same idea with a 2-BR Phuket Beach Club which I believe has MF of $1,150, so the cost of the week would be $1,314 with the Exchange Fee.

Or perhaps there is a different lock off which has higher maintenance fees than Grand Chateau, but the studio can pull those 2-BR Hawaii units.

What is your sensitivity on "most affordable"? Your examples are within 5% of eachother and I suspect the variability within the range of factors for trading power in II may be greater than that.

Back to the question I raised earlier if both your VVW and an MVC 1-bed can reliably pull the 2-bed Hawaii that you seek, but there may be greater variability in available dates and when the match is made with the VVW than the MVC 1-bed: how much cost is that worth to you? The same will apply to your choice of a 2-Bed Phuket vs 1-bed GC.

Other things to remember:
- There are never any guarantees with getting exchanges in II, no matter where you own
- This year II have clipped the wings of several exceptional II Traders, so they no longer out-perform their value in the system. If you buy an II trader you run the risk of having this issue in the future, or perhaps never, its a risk, ensure that you understand that.

From reading around on TUG, FB and my own experience with II, this isn't a formulaic problem with a "right" answer, not least of all because you'll never know if doing something else would have been better. There are some ownerships that seem to do very well, others that do well and some that are complete rubbish. What we don't know is whether the benefit between the lauded II Traders (e.g GC) and something less glitzy like Willow Ridge or Phuket is 5%, more or less.