We just went to a presentation where we were quoted $5995 for 2500 points (around $2.40 / point) - what are these going for on the resale market? (we are long time weeks owners and have no intention of converting but I am curious to see what is the actual value of a point).
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value of Diamond Resort points - resale
- Thread starter AKE
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csalter2
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Diamond Resorts Gold
Generally 20 cents a point for some time.
However, Diamond has made the process of conversion of points to Club even more murky then it was in Sunterra days. It also now costs a minimum of $250 just to transfer points. At least the transfer was free up until a few weeks ago.
So . . . the real answer now maybe worthless, unless of course its a big block of points and the buyer has the connections or know-how to actually do something with those nice newly acquired resale points.
Of course, points can always be kept just as points and used within the 19 resorts of the main collection, but The Club is where all the additional flexibility and advantages lie. Hence the attempt at very tight control.
Its a tightrope though. If resales become worthless, then no one will buy.
I hope my answer is confusing enough, because that's what Diamond wants.
However, Diamond has made the process of conversion of points to Club even more murky then it was in Sunterra days. It also now costs a minimum of $250 just to transfer points. At least the transfer was free up until a few weeks ago.
So . . . the real answer now maybe worthless, unless of course its a big block of points and the buyer has the connections or know-how to actually do something with those nice newly acquired resale points.
Of course, points can always be kept just as points and used within the 19 resorts of the main collection, but The Club is where all the additional flexibility and advantages lie. Hence the attempt at very tight control.
Its a tightrope though. If resales become worthless, then no one will buy.
I hope my answer is confusing enough, because that's what Diamond wants.
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[triennial - points]
No Resale Points In Diamond Timeshare System (T. H. E. Club).
Without buying more for big bux, any SunTerra timeshare we owned could only be used on a stand-alone (i.e., non-club) basis. Plus, if we bought in for big bux, all we could ever sell (when we got done with timesharing) was the underlying deeded timeshare property. The pricey club membership would simply evaporate.
What we concluded from that is that Club SunTerra (now T. H. E. Club) is mainly the timeshare company's ingenious way to fight back against timeshare resales. That is, they sell a product (club membership) that can't be obtained resale & that cannot be disposed of via resale. A fantastic biz plan from the company's perspective, a non-starter for The Chief Of Staff & me. That is to say, I might well want to buy some stock in Diamond Resorts, but not an actual, uh -- er, you know, um . . . T. H. E. Club membership (not that there's anything wrong with T. H. E. Club).
Maybe all that has changed since the last time we were exposed to the sales pitch, I don't know. If Diamond timeshare points could be obtained resale in the manner of, say, Wyndham FairShare Plus points or RCI points, then it might be a whole new ball game for T. H. E. Club.
Wouldn't that be something ?
Any time we've gone to a Diamond -- & before that, SunTerra -- sales pitch, it quickly became clear that the only way to get into their club system was to buy in at full freight. Sure, they negotiate. If we already owned some Diamond (back then, SunTerra) timeshares, as we did, they said they'd "convert" those to more club points as part of the deal.
Without buying more for big bux, any SunTerra timeshare we owned could only be used on a stand-alone (i.e., non-club) basis. Plus, if we bought in for big bux, all we could ever sell (when we got done with timesharing) was the underlying deeded timeshare property. The pricey club membership would simply evaporate.
What we concluded from that is that Club SunTerra (now T. H. E. Club) is mainly the timeshare company's ingenious way to fight back against timeshare resales. That is, they sell a product (club membership) that can't be obtained resale & that cannot be disposed of via resale. A fantastic biz plan from the company's perspective, a non-starter for The Chief Of Staff & me. That is to say, I might well want to buy some stock in Diamond Resorts, but not an actual, uh -- er, you know, um . . . T. H. E. Club membership (not that there's anything wrong with T. H. E. Club).
Maybe all that has changed since the last time we were exposed to the sales pitch, I don't know. If Diamond timeshare points could be obtained resale in the manner of, say, Wyndham FairShare Plus points or RCI points, then it might be a whole new ball game for T. H. E. Club.
Wouldn't that be something ?
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
I understand it as you have stated. We sat through a 3 hr. high pressure at the Mirage in Scottsdale, AZ this past August. As you said, you buy from them and it stays with them. No resale value. Watch when buying resales too! some of the companies are advertising club points, which of course you do not get, just the deed to where ever.
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[triennial - points]
Points, Shmoynts.
And when a Phase II deed does show up on eBay, often as not it's for some dinky point-value UDI that no doubt worked OK when used within the club system but that by itself is good for approximately 1 afternoon in the pool. (That's a gross exaggeration, of course, but it illustrates the point.)
On the Yahoo "group" for Cypress Pointe owners, some people were offering to give away -- free -- some of those dinky low-points clubless UDI deeds. I don't know whether there were any takers.
SunTerra (now Diamond) is Developer Of Record at Cypress II and I. When Phase I was in active sales, they hadn't come up with those dinky-points offerings, so all deeds at Phase I are for 3BR lock-off weeks. Phase II deeds are for 1- & 2- & 3BR weeks (3BRs = lock-offs) in addition to those large & medium & dinky UDI deeds.
Full Disclosure : Our Phase II deed is every-year Floating Diamond 3BR lock off. Our Phase I deed is EEY Floating Diamond 3BR lock-off. (Both resales. No UDIs.)
These days I spend more eBay time looking at horns than at timeshares. But even so, now & then I'll look to see whether any Cypress Pointe I or II timeshares come up on eBay. They still do, but only rarely (because the Cypress Pointe timeshares are not mega-resorts, I suppose).
And when a Phase II deed does show up on eBay, often as not it's for some dinky point-value UDI that no doubt worked OK when used within the club system but that by itself is good for approximately 1 afternoon in the pool. (That's a gross exaggeration, of course, but it illustrates the point.)
On the Yahoo "group" for Cypress Pointe owners, some people were offering to give away -- free -- some of those dinky low-points clubless UDI deeds. I don't know whether there were any takers.
SunTerra (now Diamond) is Developer Of Record at Cypress II and I. When Phase I was in active sales, they hadn't come up with those dinky-points offerings, so all deeds at Phase I are for 3BR lock-off weeks. Phase II deeds are for 1- & 2- & 3BR weeks (3BRs = lock-offs) in addition to those large & medium & dinky UDI deeds.
Full Disclosure : Our Phase II deed is every-year Floating Diamond 3BR lock off. Our Phase I deed is EEY Floating Diamond 3BR lock-off. (Both resales. No UDIs.)
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
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DRI is making a lot of changes fast and fee's are increasing just as rapidly. If it were me, I would not be buying into DRI until the dust settle's and owners really know where they stand (quality vs cost of owning).
In the past you have NOT had to pay full freight to get into THE Club but, as mentioned, DRI has continued to change the rules of the game until it's come to a point where no one is really certain about resale units. If you purchase Trust points, you'll always be able to exchange between the resorts in the DRI trust (19 different resorts). THE Club has over 100 resorts (with varying inventory for exchange purposes) and is a different animal.
DRI originally was allowing resale buyers to pay a joiner fee of $2,995 to bring resale units into THE Club. Lately it seems the slammed the door on this offer and they are now wanting you to buy at full freight from them. At one point if you purchased any unit with them they'd allow you to bring in resale units. They use to allow it to be written into their contracts that you would have so many months after making a developer purchase that you could buy resale units and bring them into THE Club as well.
I believe those days may be gone. Lately it's been sounding more and more as if you must buy directly from DRI in order to be a member of THE Club. For sales this is great. For members this is bad. As old owners sell off their weeks, those weeks will be lost to THE Club for exchange. This will eventually lead to decreased inventory for THE Club members for internal changes. So, it's good for sales staff but bad for owners. Eventually, it may be bad for sales staff as well since you'll see fewer repeat buyers. Who would buy additional points when there isn't adaquate inventory to exchange into if that owners was sold on the idea of exchange? IMO, not allowing an affordable mechanism to bring resale units back into THE Club is short sighted and will not only hurt owners, it will eventually hurt the developer and his sales staff.
In the past you have NOT had to pay full freight to get into THE Club but, as mentioned, DRI has continued to change the rules of the game until it's come to a point where no one is really certain about resale units. If you purchase Trust points, you'll always be able to exchange between the resorts in the DRI trust (19 different resorts). THE Club has over 100 resorts (with varying inventory for exchange purposes) and is a different animal.
DRI originally was allowing resale buyers to pay a joiner fee of $2,995 to bring resale units into THE Club. Lately it seems the slammed the door on this offer and they are now wanting you to buy at full freight from them. At one point if you purchased any unit with them they'd allow you to bring in resale units. They use to allow it to be written into their contracts that you would have so many months after making a developer purchase that you could buy resale units and bring them into THE Club as well.
I believe those days may be gone. Lately it's been sounding more and more as if you must buy directly from DRI in order to be a member of THE Club. For sales this is great. For members this is bad. As old owners sell off their weeks, those weeks will be lost to THE Club for exchange. This will eventually lead to decreased inventory for THE Club members for internal changes. So, it's good for sales staff but bad for owners. Eventually, it may be bad for sales staff as well since you'll see fewer repeat buyers. Who would buy additional points when there isn't adaquate inventory to exchange into if that owners was sold on the idea of exchange? IMO, not allowing an affordable mechanism to bring resale units back into THE Club is short sighted and will not only hurt owners, it will eventually hurt the developer and his sales staff.
What happens if you buy resale points if you are already a Club member? Do they still charge you a "fee" to add them to your account?
I've been considering purchasing additional resale points, but with the maintenance fee per point going up and up and up (doubled)
since we purchased in 2000 - it makes me skittish.
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BillR
TUG Member
What happens if you buy resale points if you are already a Club member? Do they still charge you a "fee" to add them to your account?
I've been considering purchasing additional resale points, but with the maintenance fee per point going up and up and up (doubled)
Well - Bent Creek Golf Village went up 25% - announced yesterday. I never thought I would see the day that I would wish we have Sunterra again (minus Nickyboy Benson, of course).
Bent Creek Golf Village has 47 DRI intervals and is now INCREASING their "Management Fees" for these 47 intervals by $309,145.00 ANNUALLY. 47 x 50 weeks = 2350 intervals. The "Management Fee" INCREASE per Interval PER WEEK is $131.55.
The "HOA" is under DRI Control.
The President of "Board" is Marilyn Windsor/
MarilynWindsor@DiamondResorts.com
The notice I received has the salutation of "Respectfully". Yeah, Right!
_________________________________________________________________
Maintenance Fees for Bent Creek Golf Village
2008 - 1BR - $501.04
2009 - 1 BR - 626.30
2008 - 2BR - 623.98
2009 - 2 BR - 779.97
2008 - 2 BR Villa - 686.75
2009 - 2 BR Villa - 858.43
ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP FEE $225.00
VERY PRICEY for their VERY AVERAGE PROPERTIES.
The ONLY thing DRI has going for it is II.
same answer, yes
BillR
TUG Member
How much?
MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO STAY AWAY FROM THESE PEOPLE. I BELIEVE THEIR SOLE INTENTION IS TO KEEP RAISING PRICES UNTIL EVERYONE GIVES UP - THEN THEY WILL SELL AND SPEND THEIR MILLIONS.
DIAMOND APPEARS TO HAVE NO SCRUPLES. THEY CERTAINLY LIKE THEIR VERY AVERAGE PROPERTIES AS THEIR MF'S ARE NOT COMPETITIVE - AND STILL GOING UP AND UP AND UP.
Generalizations will get you in trouble. You obviously do not know what you're talking about. Many Diamond MF (even the 2009 ones) are totally in line with industry averages. I'll be paying $1150 for a Greensprings 4BR in Williamsburg. With the recent renovations, that's $575 for a totally 4 star 2BR unit. Not that I like increases, but that price compares just fine, and I'll take Greensprings renovated units over anything else in Williamsburg thank you.
acesneights
TUG Member
$9995 for 2500 points in St. Martin
Just finished a sales presentation at Flamingo Beach.
Plus $600 MF.
I told them I could get 2 million FSP points for that.
Plus we exchanged into Flamingo Beach with a generic 28K FSP deposit.
Stan
Just finished a sales presentation at Flamingo Beach.
Plus $600 MF.
I told them I could get 2 million FSP points for that.
Plus we exchanged into Flamingo Beach with a generic 28K FSP deposit.
Stan
Ace nights, if you're interested in buying A RTU property at that resort - week 42, feel free to contact myself. I am with RCI for the exchanging of my interest, last I heard II was also affiliated with this resort ..... it's not points, but a whole lot less for the week .....
J
JoeMid
Just finished meaning you were there for the height of hurricane season. I know St Maarten fared well and that yesterday was the first total overcast day in at least three weeks, but anyone can trade into just about anything in St Maarten with anything in September.
Flamingo is not affiliated with II, THE Club is affiliated with II, meaning you cannot deposit your week in II, the II affiliation is for points owners. Wk42
krmlaw
TUG Member
We own a fixed week at a DRI (polynesian isles). I had purchased it when it was still sunterra, off ebay, for $400. Cant beat that. My MF have gone DOWN each year. They dropped another $100 this year.
It says my condo is worth 5500 points, but we arent members of The Club. And from the sound of it, sounds like I dont want to be!
It says my condo is worth 5500 points, but we arent members of The Club. And from the sound of it, sounds like I dont want to be!
csalter2
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Marriott Aruba Surf Club
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Diamond Resorts Gold
That was a great buy! Polynesian Isles is a nice property and very well maintained. How much are the maintenance fees? Do you have a 1 or 2 brdrm?
krmlaw
TUG Member
DH didnt believe it when I showed him the bill of sale! This was our first week we purchased.
We have a 2 bedroom, over 4th of july week. MF were 804, now there are down to the low 700s. I dont think thats too bad.
But honestly, I dont know how other resorts MF rank. BUT, with no mortgage, and only paying $400 for the resort, I cant complain!
We have a 2 bedroom, over 4th of july week. MF were 804, now there are down to the low 700s. I dont think thats too bad.
But honestly, I dont know how other resorts MF rank. BUT, with no mortgage, and only paying $400 for the resort, I cant complain!
The way you own makes the difference
The key is the ownership of a week NOT the trust. When you own a week at a DRI affiliated resort you have control (or at least as much control as a timeshare owner can have). You have a vote for the HOA, you own a deeded property and you can use/deposit your time as you wish. It used to be you could also opt into the DRI (Sunterra) Club (points) while continuing to be a deeded owner. That seems not to be the case any longer. To join The Club (DRI Points) you must give up your deeded ownership to DRI and become a RTU/Trust member.
When that occurs to me you have basically given away your ownership and control. It is that system, and the resorts that are under DRI management and HOA control, that are showing the massive and, IMO, unwarranted fee increases. Not that fees don't go up - they do at almost any well run and up to date resort - but the numbers at DRI managed resorts, from whats been reported, are far too top heavy with management fees and way too light on reserves/operations. Not a good combination. Add in the fact that when you become a trust member you can lose your purchase costs with a simple missed payment - no foreclosure process required just a swipe of the pen by DRI - and I am not at all comfortable with that type of "ownership". Plus it is almost impossible to resell it for any value as they purposely make the ownership transfer costly and murky as to what you get. That seems to be why DRI owners are unhappy (some - not all) and why I am a happy DRI Club member. I have my deeded week, I have very little at risk (<$1100 from 1998) for the membership and my resort is independent (like yours). The BEST way to be part of the DRI family IMHO.
The key is the ownership of a week NOT the trust. When you own a week at a DRI affiliated resort you have control (or at least as much control as a timeshare owner can have). You have a vote for the HOA, you own a deeded property and you can use/deposit your time as you wish. It used to be you could also opt into the DRI (Sunterra) Club (points) while continuing to be a deeded owner. That seems not to be the case any longer. To join The Club (DRI Points) you must give up your deeded ownership to DRI and become a RTU/Trust member.
When that occurs to me you have basically given away your ownership and control. It is that system, and the resorts that are under DRI management and HOA control, that are showing the massive and, IMO, unwarranted fee increases. Not that fees don't go up - they do at almost any well run and up to date resort - but the numbers at DRI managed resorts, from whats been reported, are far too top heavy with management fees and way too light on reserves/operations. Not a good combination. Add in the fact that when you become a trust member you can lose your purchase costs with a simple missed payment - no foreclosure process required just a swipe of the pen by DRI - and I am not at all comfortable with that type of "ownership". Plus it is almost impossible to resell it for any value as they purposely make the ownership transfer costly and murky as to what you get. That seems to be why DRI owners are unhappy (some - not all) and why I am a happy DRI Club member. I have my deeded week, I have very little at risk (<$1100 from 1998) for the membership and my resort is independent (like yours). The BEST way to be part of the DRI family IMHO.
krmlaw
TUG Member
I agree with you, my week trades great, my MF are reasonable, and sounds like DRI is a pain to deal with. I call my resort directly to bank of week or use my week. Its great. And my MF just went down almost $100 from last year. Plus, for buying so cheap I cant get a better deal.
Funny, I have never even seen my resort! haha
Funny, I have never even seen my resort! haha