Understanding point value vs. maintenance fees

[Sam24]

Hi,

My girlfriend and I fell for a pitch presentation earlier this year and missed the period for rescinding. I am still trying to understand how good/bad a decision it was (I know, a bit late!).
For a purchase price of $16500, we are getting 7500 points in the US collection. The maintenance fee is $1315 for 2023.

I was trying to understand the value of points compared to their market value.
For 5500 points, it says you get a 7-day one-bedroom. As a price point from bookings.com, this might be worth $180*6 at a random DRI resort, so taken for the full 7500 points, a market value of $1473.
I end up with about $160 yearly savings when only taking into account the maintenance fee vs the point market value. This is assuming points are used in full and no late fees, etc. arise.

Even adding in the extra getaway gift they gave us, the purchase price won't be reimbursed within > 40 years like that, even if points were utilized to the max.

Am I overlooking something, or is this a horrible deal? The maintenance fee seems too high to me / the return too low. I read that it is the same for everyone, so how do other's justify its value?

Thanks,
Sam

 

[Duh]

There are a couple of things you are forgetting when determining value. Most Diamond resorts charge a daily usage fee of $20-40 when coming on non-Diamond reservations. Also, taxes are charged on site such as booking.com. Most people, when attempting to show how cheap booking.com is just take the big bold price listed and don't add on the costs of taxes and fees. They will also cherry pick a specific week where the cost difference is low to try and prove their point. With Diamond, you can also maximize your usage by doing 5 night stays (Sun-Thur night) which only cost half of a week's points for 5 nights. And you can catch a 25, 50, or even 75% off sale which saves points. Lastly, some of us have been owners forever (33.5 years myself) so the earlier one buys a timeshare in life, the longer they have to increase their ROI. I'm not saying that being an owner is the greatest thing since sliced bread but if you use it right, you can definitely get a good value out of it.

 

[pedro47]

To the OP, You do know that Diamond Resorts have been purchased by Hilton Vacation Club this year????

 

[Sam24]

There are a couple of things you are forgetting when determining value. Most Diamond resorts charge a daily usage fee of $20-40 when coming on non-Diamond reservations. Also, taxes are charged on site such as booking.com. Most people, when attempting to show how cheap booking.com is just take the big bold price listed and don't add on the costs of taxes and fees. They will also cherry pick a specific week where the cost difference is low to try and prove their point. With Diamond, you can also maximize your usage by doing 5 night stays (Sun-Thur night) which only cost half of a week's points for 5 nights. And you can catch a 25, 50, or even 75% off sale which saves points. Lastly, some of us have been owners forever (33.5 years myself) so the earlier one buys a timeshare in life, the longer they have to increase their ROI. I'm not saying that being an owner is the greatest thing since sliced bread but if you use it right, you can definitely get a good value out of it.

Thanks for pointing this out. Now it definitely feels a lot better than with my original assumptions; I updated my table with some more positive estimates and now think 10-15y might get us to a zero sum game if we use all points wisely / incur no extra fees. Might take 5-10y longer due to mishaps. The ROI can then get really good after.

To the OP, You do know that Diamond Resorts have been purchased by Hilton Vacation Club this year????

Yes. Anything in particular to be aware of? I'll read up on the other thread once they send us details for joining HGV Max.

 

[bnoble]

I understand why you might want to find the "value" of these, but you might also be better off ignoring it.

For me, the value of a timeshare is that it makes taking vacations a priority that I plan around, rather than something that I fit in around the other priorities in my life. I can guarantee you that timeshares have not saved me money, but that's because I am taking many more vacations than I would if I had been left to my own devices. So, while there is a "savings"--if I had paid market rates for all of those rooms, it would have cost more--the savings is somewhat of a mirage.

There's also the fact that (a) you can no longer rescind and (b) it will be relatively worthless if you try to sell it. The value is in the using, so use it! If you decide you like the vacation style that timeshare affords, you will likely want to extend your portfolio. If you do, you will probably find that the resale market will provide better value. That will be the time to sharpen the pencils.

 

[Sam24]

Thanks for the wise statement, bnoble, I appreciate it

 

[dayooper]

Thanks for the wise statement, bnoble, I appreciate it

I also think the value is the size of accommodations. Being able to book a 2 or 3 bedroom unit is awesome for our family.

 

[bnoble]

Us too. I often catch myself wondering how people go on vacations in hotel rooms. I mean, I know lots of people do this, but yikes.

 

[SeattleAl]

To the OP - don't feel bad,. Just about everyone in my family bought a timeshare at one point or another. And we are all highly educated working professionals. My parents bought into DRI when they were in their late 60's and retired. They were deeded owners at Polo Towers before DRI bought it.

You will quickly find that 7500 points won't get you into the nicer units at the better locations. So they will try to get you to buy more points every time you go to a DRI property. It's probably worth while to buy another 7500 points to get to a Silver level and get a nice ocean front unit at Poipu or Kaanapali during the peak season. However, use your best bargaining abilities to get the lowest price. With me, they usually started with a ridiculous price, and after turning them down a few times, they will come back with a reasonable offer that you feel you need to accept after a couple of hours of high pressure sales tactics. When you get to the next level, refuse to attend any more timeshare presentations.

I have come to think of timeshares as similar to a car. You spend $40000 on one and you pay maintenance on it every year. The maintenance is probably in the range of getting your car serviced a couple of times a year, and insuring it. At the end, you get rid of it a a much lower value than you paid. With DRI, you can use Transitions to get out of it by paying them to take it back. My mom paid $250 for the privilege of getting out of her timeshare and maintenance fees after transitions became available. Even after she got out, they still tried to invite her to presentations.

 

[pedro47]

To the OP - don't feel bad,. Just about everyone in my family bought a timeshare at one point or another. And we are all highly educated working professionals. My parents bought into DRI when they were in their late 60's and retired. They were deeded owners at Polo Towers before DRI bought it.

You will quickly find that 7500 points won't get you into the nicer units at the better locations. So they will try to get you to buy more points every time you go to a DRI property. It's probably worth while to buy another 7500 points to get to a Silver level and get a nice ocean front unit at Poipu or Kaanapali during the peak season. However, use your best bargaining abilities to get the lowest price. With me, they usually started with a ridiculous price, and after turning them down a few times, they will come back with a reasonable offer that you feel you need to accept after a couple of hours of high pressure sales tactics. When you get to the next level, refuse to attend any more timeshare presentations.

I have come to think of timeshares as similar to a car. You spend $40000 on one and you pay maintenance on it every year. The maintenance is probably in the range of getting your car serviced a couple of times a year, and insuring it. At the end, you get rid of it a a much lower value than you paid. With DRI, you can use Transitions to get out of it by paying them to take it back. My mom paid $250 for the privilege of getting out of her timeshare and maintenance fees after transitions became available. Even after she got out, they still tried to invite her to presentations.

Excellent and very truthful post.

 

[pedro47]

Does Hilton have a buy back program for their timeshare owners?

 

[MermaidBG]

Hi,

My girlfriend and I fell for a pitch presentation earlier this year and missed the period for rescinding. I am still trying to understand how good/bad a decision it was (I know, a bit late!).
For a purchase price of $16500, we are getting 7500 points in the US collection. The maintenance fee is $1315 for 2023.

I was trying to understand the value of points compared to their market value.
For 5500 points, it says you get a 7-day one-bedroom. As a price point from bookings.com, this might be worth $180*6 at a random DRI resort, so taken for the full 7500 points, a market value of $1473.
I end up with about $160 yearly savings when only taking into account the maintenance fee vs the point market value. This is assuming points are used in full and no late fees, etc. arise.

Even adding in the extra getaway gift they gave us, the purchase price won't be reimbursed within > 40 years like that, even if points were utilized to the max.

Am I overlooking something, or is this a horrible deal? The maintenance fee seems too high to me / the return too low. I read that it is the same for everyone, so how do other's justify its value?

Thanks,
Sam

We bought our timeshare back in April this year. Still learning and wondering if we took the right decision. Here is my math based on 10 years term (in my contract it says I could walk away in 10 year. I believe this is based on when you will pay the timeshare fullyt off. Note here: I paid the full amount, so I believe I can walk away any time)

Purchase: 16,500 USD --> 1,650 USD a year
Maintenance Fee --> 1,315 USD annually
Total: --> 2,965 USD a year ---> 423.57 per night based on one week for one bedroom apartment
For comparison decent hotel rooms start from USD 300 a night for single room (not one bed, and do not have extras like kitchen, nice pools, etc.

However, if you are taking loan on high interest (12-13% annual rate) this equation is not applicable and the cost will probably double.

Having timeshare gives me also opportunity to get Interval membership, where I can purchase gateway for cash (annual membership cost around $100 annually). Also if you are flexible, you can get a week somewhere for 1500-3000 points for a week (of course not in high season) or you can rent from someone who could not go on their scheduled vacation (still learning about this option)

These are my 2 cents. I always think that the right decision is the already taken one. So let's take the maximum out from our decision

Good luck and enjoy your future trips

 

[winger]

I understand why you might want to find the "value" of these, but you might also be better off ignoring it.

For me, the value of a timeshare is that it makes taking vacations a priority that I plan around, rather than something that I fit in around the other priorities in my life. I can guarantee you that timeshares have not saved me money, but that's because I am taking many more vacations than I would if I had been left to my own devices. So, while there is a "savings"--if I had paid market rates for all of those rooms, it would have cost more--the savings is somewhat of a mirage.

There's also the fact that (a) you can no longer rescind and (b) it will be relatively worthless if you try to sell it. The value is in the using, so use it! If you decide you like the vacation style that timeshare affords, you will likely want to extend your portfolio. If you do, you will probably find that the resale market will provide better value. That will be the time to sharpen the pencils.

Been at this for over 20 years. Used used used and bought more (not all DRI) as this TS lifestyle fits us.

 

[pedro47]

I feel the best way to break even with owning a timeshare is to purchase resale and not to have any timeshare mortgages. Points are great only if you are going to used them. Purchased a 2 bedroom lockout unit for trading purpose with low maintenance fees.

Divide the daily points needed for a decent vacation stay.

 

[TSCowboy]

Hey,

My wife and I are in about the exact same position. Paid 16500 for 7500 annual points. They through in a one time 7500 bonus points and paid for the first two years of dues and maintenance. They also through in some travel vouchers I havent really looked at. Been regretting it ever since. At least some of these post make me feel a little better.

We also have the ability to opt into HGV Max for a 199 dollar activation fee. Would you guys do this or stay with DCI?

 

[TSCowboy]

Anyone else have this option? What did you do? Great site by the way. Wish I would have found before I bought. Representatives seem pretty vague but they make it sound like we will owe MF and dues to both programs but still only have the 7500 annual points.

thanks in advance.

 

[Duh]

Does Hilton have a buy back program for their timeshare owners?

No.

 

[Duh]

Hey,

My wife and I are in about the exact same position. Paid 16500 for 7500 annual points. They through in a one time 7500 bonus points and paid for the first two years of dues and maintenance. They also through in some travel vouchers I havent really looked at. Been regretting it ever since. At least some of these post make me feel a little better.

We also have the ability to opt into HGV Max for a 199 dollar activation fee. Would you guys do this or stay with DCI?

Never heard of just paying an activation fee for Diamond owners (Hilton owners have to pay a $7,000 initiation fee to get into HGV Max).

 

[artringwald]

Hey,

My wife and I are in about the exact same position. Paid 16500 for 7500 annual points. They through in a one time 7500 bonus points and paid for the first two years of dues and maintenance. They also through in some travel vouchers I havent really looked at. Been regretting it ever since. At least some of these post make me feel a little better.

We also have the ability to opt into HGV Max for a 199 dollar activation fee. Would you guys do this or stay with DCI?

Some of us made bigger mistakes than you before we found TUG. The purchase price is gone, so forget about it. Going forward, this is the best place to go to get questions answered and find out how to best use your points. 7500 won't get you much, but you can bank the points into the next year, and 15,000 will get you a nice stay. Look for last minute bargains and you can get an even nicer stay.

 

[TSCowboy]

Well there is. Have until midnight tonight to decide. Our contract also lets us forfeit any interest free at a 10 year window. The only benefit I can see is if we were in it for the long haul. DRI has more resorts than we can probably use in ten years. Thanks for the replies. We can travel last minute so we are hoping to take advantage of the discounts with our 7500 points.

 

[winger]

I also think the value is the size of accommodations. Being able to book a 2 or 3 bedroom unit is awesome for our family.

And for units with a kitchen, home cooking is so much healthier and less expensive for a family even more so important when we have a child with many food allergies, a handful severe.

 

[IndianaBones]

This thread has been very helpful and informative - thanks everyone for your insights and perspectives. I'm posting my own reflections on our experience with DRI, and follow with some questions.

My wife and I bought into the DRI US Club with 5,000 points in 2013, and another 5,000 in 2015. I don't recall how much we paid - maybe $15,000 for each? That's $$$ under the bridge now, since we've paid off both. We currently pay around $2,500 maintenance fees annually.

Like others in this thread, we enjoy the timeshare vacationing experience in much nicer accommodations than a hotel, with room to spread out and a full kitchen. For us, a big plus is that most DRI resorts provide higher quality units and amenities - far superior to some of dumps we stayed at using RCI exchanges from a weeks resort we bought in LV in the early 2000's.

There are some drawbacks, however.

1. One of the "selling points" was that we could supposedly "transfer" our week-based resort into their inventory and get another 5,000 points annually for that. The reality is that process is cumbersome, poorly documented, has to be repeated annually, and I'm not even sure if our weeks-resort would allow DRI to sell the week on our behalf.
2. We agree that 10,000 annually won't get you two weeks a year at higher quality/demand resorts. Forget about Hawaii! If we did bank 20,000 to go someplace special, that's over $5,000 for the week. I'm confident we could much better here in the TUG marketplace, the internet, or an Airbnb.
3. I also agree DRI is a good option if you have the flexibility to do 5d-4n vacations, or book last minute. But that doesn't fit our life.
4. Now that DRI is part of HGV, I have no idea if anything has changed for the better or worse.

We just bought a week at Massanutten, a resort we really like and it's only a 4-hour drive away. It's also in the same collective as our LV week resort (Vacation Village), so we've brought that back into the fold via RCI.

So now we're asking ourselves, is the $2,500/yr in fees worth the money to get 10,000 points? We don't really think so. So I'd like to ask some questions about our options.

1. Is there any way to permanently sell/transfer our DSR TS ownership/membership/points to a third party? I'm pretty sure the answer is a firm NO! based on what I'm reading in other TUG forums, but I'd like to confirm that.
2. Is there a market to sell our points every year? Any hope of recovering our annual fees?
3. If NO to questions 1 & 2, can we just walk away and stop paying maintenance fees? We paid off the mortgages so we own whatever-it-is-that-we-own free and clear. I know there might be some credit score risk, but according to another TUG forum, it sounds like it's pretty low.

 

[artringwald]

We agree that 10,000 annually won't get you two weeks a year at higher quality/demand resorts. Forget about Hawaii! If we did bank 20,000 to go someplace special, that's over $5,000 for the week. I'm confident we could much better here in the TUG marketplace, the internet, or an Airbnb.

We like Kaanapali Beach Club and you can get two weeks in a 1 bedroom there for less than 10,000 points. The catch is that you have to book it on relatively short notice.

Is there any way to permanently sell/transfer our DSR TS ownership/membership/points to a third party? I'm pretty sure the answer is a firm NO!

You can certainly sell your points to a third party, if you could find anyone willing to buy them. It's hard to give them away. The catch for anyone buying them is that they could only use the points within the trust/collection that you belong to. The buyer would not be able to use any of the points for resorts outside the collection. That's why some call resale points "dirty" points.