• A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
  • The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
  • The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!

Transferring Deed for Hawaii Timehshare

SST

newbie
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
Green Bay, WI
Can anyone familiar with Hawaii transfers shed light on the process to transfer a deed for a Westin Property in Hawaii? Current deed is free and clear of any liens or other encumberances.

This is a sale between friends, and will not need escrow services.

Can anyone recommend a title agent for this work?

SST
 
I would think calling the registry of deeds in the local area to the resort and asking them would be the best option. If you are giving this to a friend you may not need a title agency to be involved, unless you have some concerns about liens.
 
I use this company for document preparation - they don't offer escrow (handle the money.) Currently, their webpage is under construction, but you can contact them by phone or email.

Legal Timeshare Transfers
Lisa Short and Mary Pless
http://legaltimesharetransfers.com/
readylegal@gmail.com
706.219.2709
 
Hawaii is an ''attorney state'' where it is illegal for a third party not licensed to practice law in Hawaii to prepare a deed. Of course, that does not prevent one of the parties from copying the old deed, but a thrid party fraudulently claiming that it was one of the parties who actually did it when they did not would also be a violation of the law.

You could call the resort and ask for a recommendation of a local attorney who would do a cheap deed. The only national deed service that complies with state laws on who can legally prepare a deed, that i am aware of, is www.justdeeds.com With any deed prepared for a fee for Hawaii, I would ask for the Hawaii state bar number of the deed preparer. If they say they are going to put your name on it as preparer, run don't walk away from them, as they are involving you in a fraud.

''Legal'' Timeshare, an Orwellian name if I have ever seen one, would NOT be operating legally to act as a third party to prepare a deed for a Hawaii timeshare.
 
Last edited:
Hawaii is an ''attorney state'' where it is illegal for a third party not licensed to practice law in Hawaii to prepare a deed. Of course, that does not prevent one of the parties from copying the old deed, but a thrid party fraudulently claiming that it was one of the parties who actually did it when they did not would also be a violation of the law.

You could call the resort and ask for a recommendation of a local attorney who would do a cheap deed. The only national deed service that complies with state laws on who can legally prepare a deed, that i am aware of, is www.justdeeds.com With any deed prepared for a fee for Hawaii, I would ask for the Hawaii state bar number of the deed preparer. If they say they are going to put your name on it as preparer, run don't walk away from them, as they are involving you in a fraud.

''Legal'' Timeshare, an Orwellian name if I have ever seen one, would NOT be operating legally to act as a third party to prepare a deed for a Hawaii timeshare.

Justdeeds will cost over $350.. A better alternative($249.) if you are concerned with who willl prepare a deed is www.deedandrecord.com
Cheaper alternatives are available if you don't require an attorney to transfer a worthless timeshare.....:cool:
 
Justdeeds will cost over $350.. A better alternative($249.) if you are concerned with who willl prepare a deed is www.deedandrecord.com
Cheaper alternatives are available if you don't require an attorney to transfer a worthless timeshare.....:cool:

Nice to have choices of different sources for legally prepared deeds. That is a savings of $101. Maybe Hawaii is more expensive but lots of North Carolina attorneys prepare North Carolina deeds a lot cheaper than that!

And the issue is not what a buyer or seller ''require'' but what state law requires.

Of course the cheapest option of all is DIY, and that is legal under all state laws I have ever heard of. That is real DIY of course, not a fraudulent smokescreen to make a deed that some third party prepared for money look like is is DIY.
 
With any deed prepared for a fee for Hawaii, I would ask for the Hawaii state bar number of the deed preparer. If they say they are going to put your name on it as preparer, run don't walk away from them, as they are involving you in a fraud.

Have you ever seen a deed from Hawaii? I have 4 of them - there is no place on a standard Hawaii deed to list the name of the preparer - Hawaii does not ask for that info.

For a free timeshare, I just send the old deed to a document preparation company and instruct them to type it up just like the original, and insert my name and info. I could do it myself, but it's time consuming, and I prefer for someone else to do the typing and mailing.

I did not ask for, nor receive, nor need, legal services, and it is perfectly legal to hire someone else to do typing and mailing for me.
 
Last edited:
So you think that means you will not get caught? Does that make it OK to violate other laws because you think you can get away with it?

I don't know the penalty in Hawaii for Unauthorized Practice of Law, but in North Carolina if no money changes hands it is a criminal misdemeanor, but if a fee is involved for preparation of the document, it is charged as a felony of False Pretenses. Extradition applies to felonies but not misdemeanors.


Have you ever seen a deed from Hawaii? I have 4 of them - there is no place on a standard Hawaii deed to list the name of the preparer - Hawaii does not ask for that info.

For a free timeshare, I just send the old deed to a document preparation company and instruct them to type it up just like the original, and insert my name. I could do it myself, but it's time consuming, and I prefer for someone else to do the typing and mailing. I am not willing to pay $350 for typing and mailing.
 
So you think that means you will not get caught? Does that make it OK to violate other laws because you think you can get away with it?

I don't know the penalty in Hawaii for Unauthorized Practice of Law, but in North Carolina if no money changes hands it is a criminal misdemeanor, but if a fee is involved for preparation of the document, it is charged as a felony of False Pretenses. Extradition applies to felonies but not misdemeanors.

Carolinian - In what state is typing and mailing a "practice of law"?

If I have a typing service type up my term paper would you assert that it was plagiarism?

BTW - I just helped a friend who is a California Attorney acquire a free timeshare on TUG, and guess who he used to transfer the deed? Yep, LTT - it wasn't worth his time (or his staff's) to do the typing, when he could just hire a typing service, so not all attorneys agree with you.
 
Last edited:
Have you ever seen a deed from Hawaii? I have 4 of them - there is no place on a standard Hawaii deed to list the name of the preparer - Hawaii does not ask for that info.

For a free timeshare, I just send the old deed to a document preparation company and instruct them to type it up just like the original, and insert my name and info. I could do it myself, but it's time consuming, and I prefer for someone else to do the typing and mailing.

I did not ask for, nor receive, nor need, legal services, and it is perfectly legal to hire someone else to do typing and mailing for me.

So you think that means you will not get caught? Does that make it OK to violate other laws because you think you can get away with it?

I don't know the penalty in Hawaii for Unauthorized Practice of Law, but in North Carolina if no money changes hands it is a criminal misdemeanor, but if a fee is involved for preparation of the document, it is charged as a felony of False Pretenses. Extradition applies to felonies but not misdemeanors.
I presume, then, that you believe it is improper for an attorney to have his or her legal assistant or secretary type up the document. Or to send a file with a legal brief to a typing service to have them do final formatting and print the document out.

***

Or do you see a distinction between "typing a document" and "preparing a deed". I know that with my professional registration, I can give someone a document to prepare under my direction and that is not the practice of engineering. I can't imagine that it's any different in the legal profession.
 
It depends upon what you type. If it is a legal instrument, it is likely not to be considered just a typing service. The fee structure and added services of these outfits also point to the fact that they are NOT mere typing services.

California is NOT an attorney state, and anyone can charge to prepare a deed. I do not know if the state the timeshare was in was also not an attorney state. If the California attorney was not licensed to practice in the state where the timeshare was located, and it was an attorney state, then he would also be guilty of Unlicenced Practice of Law. Law licenses are state-specific, as is real property law.



Carolinian - In what state is typing and mailing a "practice of law"?

If I have a typing service type up my term paper would you assert that it was plagiarism?

BTW - I just helped a friend who is a California Attorney acquire a free timeshare on TUG, and guess who he used to transfer the deed? Yep, LTT - it wasn't worth his time (or his staff's) to do the typing, when he could just hire a typing service, so not all attorneys agree with you.
 
A licensed professional can indeed supervise his/her employee to perform such acts and review the final product and that is quite common practice. That is not at all what we are talking about here. No competent professional is supervising these scofflaw deed preparation firms.


I presume, then, that you believe it is improper for an attorney to have his or her legal assistant or secretary type up the document. Or to send a file with a legal brief to a typing service to have them do final formatting and print the document out.

***

Or do you see a distinction between "typing a document" and "preparing a deed". I know that with my professional registration, I can give someone a document to prepare under my direction and that is not the practice of engineering. I can't imagine that it's any different in the legal profession.
 
A licensed professional can indeed supervise his/her employee to perform such acts and review the final product and that is quite common practice. That is not at all what we are talking about here. No competent professional is supervising these scofflaw deed preparation firms.

Your twisting my question.

I will ask directly. Upthread you said that a person could prepare their own deed and not run afoul of laws that require an attorney to prepare a deed.

So, Denise, doing it herself, prepares a marked up deed and then hands it off to Mary's Typing and Transcribing, LLC, to type up the document with Denise's edits following the formatting instructions provided to Mary or her staff by Denise. Mary is doing nothing other than what, say, a temp from a clerical service might do in an attorney's office. The only difference is that Mary is physically doing the typing in her offices instead of going to an attorney's office to do the work.

In your opinion, is Mary illegally practicing law because she ministerially transcribes legal documents and enters other people's edits into those documents.
 
Nice to have choices of different sources for legally prepared deeds. That is a savings of $101. Maybe Hawaii is more expensive but lots of North Carolina attorneys prepare North Carolina deeds a lot cheaper than that!And the issue is not what a buyer or seller ''require'' but what state law requires.

Of course the cheapest option of all is DIY, and that is legal under all state laws I have ever heard of. That is real DIY of course, not a fraudulent smokescreen to make a deed that some third party prepared for money look like is is DIY.

This is a true. I used a NC attorney to help me transfer a deed for a NC TS and he charged $150 plus the county recording fee. No extra charges for mailing either.
 
Your twisting my question.

I will ask directly. Upthread you said that a person could prepare their own deed and not run afoul of laws that require an attorney to prepare a deed.

So, Denise, doing it herself, prepares a marked up deed and then hands it off to Mary's Typing and Transcribing, LLC, to type up the document with Denise's edits following the formatting instructions provided to Mary or her staff by Denise. Mary is doing nothing other than what, say, a temp from a clerical service might do in an attorney's office. The only difference is that Mary is physically doing the typing in her offices instead of going to an attorney's office to do the work.

In your opinion, is Mary illegally practicing law because she ministerially transcribes legal documents and enters other people's edits into those documents.

Steve: In your example, a MARKED up deed, it is a typing service at that point. The document typist can not change ANYTHING on the marked up version. It has to be a word for word version of what was presented. The deed preparation companies I have seen on here, however, DO NOT require you to send them a marked up copy of a deed. You enter information into their website and low and behold a deed has been prepared complete with buyer names, seller names, legal descriptions etc. Since no "Marked" up deed was ever furnished to them, then by your example they prepared it. That is the practice of law.

If anything other than what is typed on the deed, lack of maritial status, lack of notary section, lack of witness lines, incomplete legal description, or the preparer has some knowledge of something wrong, and they "fix" it, then you are not a typing service, your drafting a legal document, and drafting the document is the practice of law.

Also, reviewing for the completeness of the "MARKED" up document, is rendering an opinion that the deed will do what it is supposed to do, and the rendering of an opinion is the practice of law.

Technically, the selection of the type of deed that has to be used is also the practice of law.

In all states, the selection of the type of notorial act, unless the signer of the document tells you which type of notorial act they want is the practice of law.

The problem fast becoming in many states is these typing services ROUTINELY go past typing the form in front of them, many call themselves paralegal services.

Several states have now gone on and defined who can use the terms, paralegal, legal assistant, etc and the ruling has been someone under the direct immediate supervision (ie, on the law firm payroll) of an attorney licensed to practice law.

When I hear of companies that are not licensed to perform escrow, but as one put it they do poor mans escrow, where they hold a check until a deed records, then they send it off to the person that was supposed to get it, that is in itself ESCROW. Again, in their eyes, they are not performing escrow services, but they are by legal definition doing so, and that requires licensing and other factors.

So as you see, it is very easy to cross the line and think nothing if it.
 
Last edited:
Because of a divorce I am going to have to file 3 deed changes in Hawaii. Am I not allowed to just quitclaim these myself. Do I have to have someone prepare them for me? if so, That is a bit of a crock.
 
Because of a divorce I am going to have to file 3 deed changes in Hawaii. Am I not allowed to just quitclaim these myself. Do I have to have someone prepare them for me? if so, That is a bit of a crock.

Yes, there is no question that you are allowed to prepare your own deed.

Carolinian (an attorney) and Dave (a closing company owner) are asserting that if you have someone else prepare it for you, you must use an attorney, or a closing company with an affiliated attorney.

Since no one has ever presented any evidence that Hawaii has ever taken any action against a timeshare owner for not using an attorney, I will continue to use a deed preparation service, and keep the extra $200 in my pocket. YMMV

We have this debate about every 3 mos. ;)
 
Last edited:
Denise:

Please do not continue to mis-quote me. If you read my post, someone preparing the deed based on something provided to them in its entirety is fine. It is the people that fill in the blanks for the customers without the "marked" up deed that is the issue.

There are a lot of things in the world that are illegal to do. Are you saying it is only illegal if you get caught doing it? So, if you drive 100 in a 35 and never get caught, then by your analogy, you have done nothing wrong.... thats kind of warped.
 
Steve: In your example, a MARKED up deed, it is a typing service at that point. The document typist can not change ANYTHING on the marked up version. It has to be a word for word version of what was presented. The deed preparation companies I have seen on here, however, DO NOT require you to send them a marked up copy of a deed. You enter information into their website and low and behold a deed has been prepared complete with buyer names, seller names, legal descriptions etc. Since no "Marked" up deed was ever furnished to them, then by your example they prepared it. That is the practice of law.

If anything other than what is typed on the deed, lack of maritial status, lack of notary section, lack of witness lines, incomplete legal description, or the preparer has some knowledge of something wrong, and they "fix" it, then you are not a typing service, your drafting a legal document, and drafting the document is the practice of law.

Also, reviewing for the completeness of the "MARKED" up document, is rendering an opinion that the deed will do what it is supposed to do, and the rendering of an opinion is the practice of law.

Technically, the selection of the type of deed that has to be used is also the practice of law.

In all states, the selection of the type of notorial act, unless the signer of the document tells you which type of notorial act they want is the practice of law.

The problem fast becoming in many states is these typing services ROUTINELY go past typing the form in front of them, many call themselves paralegal services.

Several states have now gone on and defined who can use the terms, paralegal, legal assistant, etc and the ruling has been someone under the direct immediate supervision (ie, on the law firm payroll) of an attorney licensed to practice law.

When I hear of companies that are not licensed to perform escrow, but as one put it they do poor mans escrow, where they hold a check until a deed records, then they send it off to the person that was supposed to get it, that is in itself ESCROW. Again, in their eyes, they are not performing escrow services, but they are by legal definition doing so, and that requires licensing and other factors.

So as you see, it is very easy to cross the line and think nothing if it.
I concur fully, and the "bright lines" you draw are akin to the bright lines in my own business as to what does and does not constitute the regulated portions of engineering. Lines which, I might add, are also frequently crossed by unlicensed practitioners.
 
There are a lot of things in the world that are illegal to do. Are you saying it is only illegal if you get caught doing it? So, if you drive 100 in a 35 and never get caught, then by your analogy, you have done nothing wrong.... thats kind of warped.

The most casual TUG reader can see that using a deed preparation company is enormously different than going 100 mph in a 35 zone. :rolleyes:
 
Since no one has ever presented any evidence that Hawaii has ever taken any action against a timeshare owner for not using an attorney, I will continue to use a deed preparation service, and keep the extra $200 in my pocket. YMMV

We have this debate about every 3 mos. ;)
The state bar of Hawaii would not take action against the timeshare owner but the company or person engaged in the unlawful practice of law.

Why is there a debate every 3 months? I suspect the debate could be minimized or alleviated if you included the clarifying statements (providing a marked up deed) contained in post #8. Is there an FAQ with a non-controversial answer?
 
Last edited:
The state bar of Hawaii would not take action against the timeshare owner but the company or person engaged in the unlawful practice of law.

Exactly - which means that TS users who use a deed preparation company are in no danger of prosecution, despite the dire warnings posted every time this topic come up.

In addition - there is no evidence that Hawaii has ever taken action against a Timeshare Deed Preparation company, either...

Why is there a debate every 3 months? I suspect the debate could be minimized or alleviated if you included the clarifying statements contained in post #8. Is there an FAQ with a non-controversial answer?

What's wrong with debate? Without debate, TUG would lose 75% of its posts!

How can you have a non-controversial answer, when there is a difference of opinion?
 
Last edited:
Exactly - which means that TS users who use a deed preparation company are in no danger of prosecution, despite the dire warnings posted every time this topic come up. In addition - there is no evidence that Hawaii has ever taken action against a Timeshare Deed Preparation company either...



What's wrong with debate? Without debate, TUG would lose 75% of its posts!

How can you have a non-controversial answer, when there is a difference of opinion?

Denise...I am especially surprised at you...by not being unbiased. This topic has been discussed over and over and over again in this and other Threads! I would have thought that as a Moderator you would have either ended this one and/or consolidated all of the past information.

Don't you think "enough is enough"? And don't you think it might be "verging" on the political? Perhaps not, but enough is enough...just sayin'.
 
If you look at how this thread started, you will see that a poster asked for advice - and I shared my own experience with a deed preparation company.

Then an attorney, and a closing company owner, responded with their opinion about why you should use an attorney.

I don't think any rules have been broken.

BTW - Moderators are not required to be "unbiased" - per TUG Brian, we can post our own opinions, as long as we don't violate the TUG posting rules.
 
Top