Timeshare Deed has 2025 Expiration

[rwblessi]

The deed has an termination date. What happens at that date?

At that point is the timeshare deeded week over?

Do timeshare maintenance fees stop at that point?

 

[DeniseM]

What is the name of the resort?

Timeshares in Mexico are all RTU, and ownership ends at that point.

Disney timeshare deeds also have an ownership ending date.

Regular deeded timeshares in the US also have a termination date, but that is the termination of the resort as a timeshare - not your ownership.

Most of the time, the HOA, or BOD, votes to renew the timeshare for another lengthy period, like 50 years, and your ownership continues as normal.

If they voted to terminate the property as a timeshare (rare) the property would be sold off, and owners may or may not get some kind of payment.

 

[theo]

There is simply no "one size fits all" answer to this question...

The deed has a termination date. What happens at that date?

At that point is the timeshare deeded week over?

Do timeshare maintenance fees stop at that point?

You might want to take a look at a current thread over in the "U.S East Coast" forum in a thread whose subject includes FoxRun; it's in large part an ongoing discussion about "termination". RTU contracts (which are not actually "deeds" or "ownerships" in the first place) will, by definition, instead have a contract expiration date.

There are underlying, officially recorded documents (CC&R's / Declaration) for U.S. timeshare facilities that contain applicable "termination" details. Every place is different regarding what will happen in the "sunset" year, as well as different procedures, required minimum owner vote percentages to make changes, different "default" actions inherited in the absence / failure of sufficient numbers and / or timely voting, etc. In short, there is just no universal, one size fits all answer or standardized, pre-determined course of action. That's just life on Planet Timeshare. Details can be (and often are) very different at different places; it's all addressed within the officially recorded CC&R's for an individual property.

A deed may refer to the "sunset" year of the property as a timeshare, but a deed does not determine (or influence) the sunset year of a property as a timeshare.
Is your "deed" actually instead a RTU contract, such as those for all Mexican timeshares?. As per above, termination details for deeded ownership facilities in the U.S. are found within the officially recorded CC&R's / Declaration for a facility, whatever it may be. Generally speaking, there is usually a separate and distinct section or chapter within the resort's CC&R's / Declaration entitled, appropriately enough, Termination.

There are numerous deeded ownership timeshare places in SW Florida, first built in the early-mid 1980's, with "sunset" years between CY 2020 -- 2025 (usually 40 years after initial construction, at least in that geographic area). Some of these places are wisely tackling the "sunset date" issue now, well in advance of the "sunset" year.
Others still have their heads in the sand, either denying or delaying the irrefutable need to confront, resolve and record the legalities of this issue, one way or another.

 

[theo]

Not quite...

<snip> Most of the time, the HOA, or BOD, votes to renew the timeshare for another lengthy period, like 50 years, and your ownership continues as normal. <snip>

Not exactly, Denise. "Termination" procedures and requirements found in CC&R's / Declarations generally specify a minimum required vote percentage of all owners.
In other words, a HOA / BoD alone has no authority to independently vote / implement CC&R's termination language changes on their own, just among themselves.

Also, in my limited experience, future periodic "renewals" after initial CC&R's termination extension tend to be every 10 years, or 20 max. Have never seen 50 years, which would actually be a longer time period than was even initially identified within the original CC&R's when the property was pre-construction or brand new.

Minor points of clarification, but perhaps still worthy of mention, offered with all due respect.

 

[bjones9942]

What is the name of the resort?

Timeshares in Mexico are all RTU, and ownership ends at that point.

No Denise, they are not ALL RTU. MOST might be RTU, but not all - My Lindo Mar timeshare is one that is not.

 

[theo]

<snip>...they are not ALL RTU. MOST might be RTU, but not all - My Lindo Mar timeshare is one that is not.

I don't know too much about Mexican timeshares, but I was somehow of the belief (...quite possibly entirely mistaken) that U.S. Gringos could not "own" coastal real estate / property in Mexico. I don't know how / when / why I came to harbor this particular impression; is it in fact entirely incorrect?

 

[bjones9942]

I don't know too much about Mexican timeshares, but I was somehow of the belief (...quite possibly entirely mistaken) that U.S. Gringos could not "own" coastal real estate / property in Mexico. I don't know how / when / why I came to harbor this particular impression; is it in fact entirely incorrect?

It is and isn't correct. Foreigners (not just 'gringos'), as individuals, are prohibited from directly owning property in Mexico up to 100 km from a border and up to 50 km from a coast. Ownership *can* be made through a fideicomiso, or through a Mexican corporation, and I'm assuming there might be other methods as well.

With the fideicomiso, a bank owns the property and holds it in trust in your name. This is the path most foreigners use to purchase restricted property in Mexico. The fideicomiso runs for a 50 year period, and can be renewed for another 50 years. The party named in the trust has full rights and responsibilities as that of a direct owner, and I've never heard of a case where a bank 'stole' the property from the trust.

I believe the method used by the Lindo Mar is that a Mexican corporation was set up and that corporation owns the Lindo Mar. This company is either directly owned by the Lindo Mar 'owners' or a separate US corporation was set up that owns the Mexican corporation and the Lindo Mar 'owners' are members of the US corporation. That's how it was explained to me, and there may be nuances or facts that I'm not aware of. What I do know is that my 'ownership', while not deeded, is not RTU and does not expire. It is a perpetual use.

I believe there are vacation clubs with similar setups as well.

 

[TUGBrian]

this thread might have some information for you

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224998

 

[rwblessi]

DiniseM
The name of the Resort is Polynesian Isles Resort, Kissimmee
rwblessi

 

[rwblessi]

My question is not about Mexican Timeshares it is about, Polynesian Isles Resort, Kissimme and the deed says 2025 Expiration.

The deed has a termination date. What happens at that date?

At that point is the timeshare deeded week over?

Do timeshare maintenance fees stop at that point?

 

[presley]

My question is not about Mexican Timeshares it is about, Polynesian Isles Resort, Kissimme and the deed says 2025 Expiration.

The deed has a termination date. What happens at that date?

At that point is the timeshare deeded week over?

Do timeshare maintenance fees stop at that point?

Not familiar with that resort, but I used to own DVC. My contract was set that it would expire and I would no longer have any ties to the property. I wouldn't be able to use it and I wouldn't need to pay anymore. I think ending dates are great for timeshares and I wish more had them.

 

[Talent312]

If you have a fee-simple deed ("to the Grantee and his heirs and assigns forever") with a terminations clause, there is also likely a clause which says something like, "Subject to the terms and conditions of the [Declarations/Covenants] recorded in...."

This latter clause incorporates the terms and conditions under which the TS operates and usually contains a renewal clause to which other posters refer. If used, the renewal clause keeps the TS operating for the time specified in the document. It not used, all owners become co-owners of the whole (tenants in common) at termination, unless otherwise provided.

OTOH, if you have a Right-To-Use contract... that is a totally different kettle of fish.

I think it would be helpful for you to quote the exact termination language used.
.

 

[JudyS]

The deed has an termination date. What happens at that date?

At that point is the timeshare deeded week over?

Do timeshare maintenance fees stop at that point?

North Carolina has a law that all timeshare arrangements end 40 years after the timeshare first started. At that point, the owners can either vote to disband the timeshare and sell the underlying real estate, or continue as a timeshare for another 10 years. If the timeshare continues, the owners vote again in 10 years, and so on. If the timeshare is sold, the owners divide the proceeds. It's really a very beneficial law, as it allows for a graceful exit if the timeshare gets rundown or if the area is no longer popular for vacations.

I see that you are asking about a Florida timeshare. Florida doesn't have such a law, but I assume a similar policy could be written into a timeshare's covenants.

 

[theo]

North Carolina has a law that all timeshare arrangements end 40 years after the timeshare first started. At that point, the owners can either vote to disband the timeshare and sell the underlying real estate, or continue as a timeshare for another 10 years. If the timeshare continues, the owners vote again in 10 years, and so on. If the timeshare is sold, the owners divide the proceeds. It's really a very beneficial law, as it allows for a graceful exit if the timeshare gets rundown or if the area is no longer popular for vacations.

I see that you are asking about a Florida timeshare. Florida doesn't have such a law, but I assume a similar policy could be written into a timeshare's covenants.

Your assumption about amending exisitin CC&R / Declaration is correct if and when achieved via a formal amendment to existing CC&R "Termination" language, by obtaining majority owner vote and approval. However, no HOA / Bod can just unilaterally alter officially any recorded CC&R / Declaration content (including termination language) on their own, by themselves. Of course, the "chains" and their various trusts, sub-trusts and other assorted corporate ownership mechanisms lurking behind the scenes are a very different kettle of fish of a very different species.

There are many (independent, non-"chain") timeshare facilities in FL with CC&R's which reflect the same initial 40 year time period that you have referenced, although I don't believe that 40 years is /was actually a matter of FL "law" (I could be mistaken in that belief, but don't think so).

Efforts to initiate CC&R amendment to termination language by majority owner vote are currently underway (or already completed) at several FL facilities with which I am personally familiar by virtue of long term ownership there.

At one place where we own a few weeks, CC&R amendment by owner vote is already completed --- with a 20 year renewal approved. Another facility where we own a few weeks is currently pursuing exactly the terms you have described above (i.e., 10 year initial renewal, requiring another vote for a second 10 year renewal when the first 10 year "renewal" period nears expiration). Voting has just begun in the latter instance; I expect that it will be overwhelmingly approved there by owner vote.

 

[theo]

One more time, with feeling...

My question is not about Mexican Timeshares it is about, Polynesian Isles Resort, Kissimme and the deed says 2025 Expiration.

The deed has a termination date. What happens at that date?

At that point is the timeshare deeded week over?

Do timeshare maintenance fees stop at that point?

The answer to any and all questions about exactly "what happens" lies within the governing documents (CC&R's / Declaration) for your particular, specific facility.
I am assuming (...although not at all clear from your proffered info) that you have a deeded ownership and not a "right to use" contract with performance end date.

Termination year reference in a deed reveals nothing more than the year in which "sunset clause" language in your resort's underlying governing documents kicks in.
The actual details of "what happens" (...and how) must be ferreted out from the original, officially recorded CC&R's / Declaration. As stated previously, you may see in your deed a reference to the location (i.e., the book & pages in County records) of those governing CC&R documents --- and that's where your answers reside.

Again, no easy "one size fits all" answer exists. You will need to examine the specific termination language found within the CC&R's for your particular resort.

 

[Harry]

recorded CC&R's / Declaration[/U]. As stated previously, you may see in your deed a reference to the location (i.e., the book & pages in County records) of those governing CC&R documents --- and that's where your answers reside.

Again, no easy "one size fits all" answer exists. You will need to examine the specific termination language found within the CC&R's for your particular resort.

CORRECT. However Florida had strange requirements at the time of inception and many documents are silent as to what happens when "use" ends. As indicated above OP has a RTU (right to use) until termination and then everything should cease.

Harry

 

[JudyS]

Your assumption is correct if and when achieved via a formal amendment to existing CC&R "Termination" language, by obtaining majority owner vote and approval.
However, no HOA / Bod can just unilaterally alter officially any recorded CC&R / Declaration content (including termination language) on their own, by themselves.
Of course, the "chains" and their various trusts, sub-trusts and other assorted corporate ownership mechanisms in the background are a very different kettle of fish. ...

I as actually thinking of cases where an end date was written into the original condo docs, before any timeshare weeks were sold.

 

[theo]

I was actually thinking of cases where an end date was written into the original condo docs, before any timeshare weeks were sold.

Afaik, it is the case anywhere and everywhere that termination provisions are written into original timeshare CC&R's / Declaration --- usually pre-construction and before first submitted for local govt. approval and official recording and prior to commencement of timeshare interval sales.

What I found interesting and noteworthy in your post (...if I understood it correctly) is that NC law may actually identify and adopt a standardized time period of 40 years for termination, although I presume that an option and mechanism for renewal still exists. I was not aware that any state had adopted a single, standardized time period for termination, but I admittedly have absolutely no experience in or with NC.

 

[JudyS]

Afaik, it is the case anywhere and everywhere that termination provisions are written into original timeshare CC&R's / Declaration before they are ever submitted for local approval and official recording.

What I found interesting and noteworthy in your post (...if I understood it correctly) is that NC law may actually identify and adopt a standardized time period of 40 years for termination, although I presume that an option and mechanism for renewal still exists. I was not previously aware that any state had adopted a single, standardized time period for termination, but I admittedly have absolutely no experience in or with NC.

Theo, are you saying that all timeshares have a termination date written into the original condo docs? If that is what you are saying, I find it very surprising.

My North Carolina deeds all have the termination date written right into the deed. I haven't seen that on any other deeded timeshare.

I could be wrong about NC having a uniform 40-year provision, because all of the timeshares I have owned in that state were developed by the same company (Fairfield.)

 

[theo]

Theo, are you saying that all timeshares have a termination date written into the original condo docs? If that is what you are saying, I find it very surprising.

My North Carolina deeds all have the termination date written right into the deed. I haven't seen that on any other deeded timeshare.

I could be wrong about NC having a uniform 40-year provision, because all of the timeshares I have owned in that state were developed by the same company (Fairfield.)

I can only state with absolute certainty that I have never seen any timeshare CC&R's / Declarations that don't contain some form of "termination" section and language, but my direct, personal experience with timeshare CC&R's / Declarations is limited to independent (i.e., non-"chain") facilities in just a few states, including Florida.

Again, the termination date may not be overtly stated in a deed, but the termination date can still be found within the governing CC&R's / Declaration, the officially recorded location of which is identified and referenced by book & page(s) number within a properly prepared deed.

Frankly, I would be very surprised if the 40 year period in NC to which you have made reference is actually a state-wide, uniform standard adopted as a matter of law, but I admittedly know nothing at all about timeshares in NC and / or NC laws.

 

[Talent312]

I suspect, but admittedly do not know... that NC's law (and others) cover only those situations where the CC&R's/Declarations are silent on the subject. They say the rules "unless as otherwise provided" in the CC&R's/Declarations.

For example, Florida's Statute states:
721.125 Extension or termination of timeshare plans.
(1) Unless the timeshare instrument provides otherwise, the vote or written consent, or both, of 60 percent of all voting interests in a timeshare plan may extend or terminate the term of the timeshare plan at any time... (emphasis added)
.