Thinking about purchasing deeded week

[Raro]

Hi all, totally new on this forum, (moderators please feel free to move this thread if I posted it in the wrong sub forum.)

We have has been a lifelong Marriott loyals when it comes to hotels for both business and vacations (lifetime platinum), we both like the brand and the quality of the property’s, we recently started looking at the MVC, thru my research I quickly realized it just doesn’t make financial sense buying into thru MVC, buy the resale market is intriguing me…

We vacation quite a lot in the Caribbean so purchasing a week at Frenchman’s cove seems enticing with what seems to be a reasonable maintenance fee considering what a comparable weeks stay in a hotel would cost. This bring on a few question which might sound silly for you pros:

1. from what I found on the forum, Frenchman’s cove does NOT have a ROFR, hypothetically, if I win an eBay auction for a deeded week for $1 I just have to pay the yearly maintenance fees after transfer fees etc?

2.I know Marriott won’t allow us to trade our week for Bonvoy points to use at other properties if we buy resale, but I assume I can still use it to trade on II?

3.if we decided to skip a stay one year, how hard is it to rent/let family stay instead? Is it a hassle?

4.do we have an option to extend our stay by paying for extra nights?

5.god forbid a hurricane wipes out the resort, or some serious issue makes it uninhabitable, could we as deed holder be required to pay a special assessment?

6.it seems maintenance fees increase on average 3-6% yearly, is this comparable to other TC company’s?

7. How fast do the weeks book? Let say we get a gold season, what are our actual chances of getting a booking in mid December?

Thank in advance for answering what probably are simple questions!

 

[Dean]

1. That is correct, no ROFR is my information.
2. Correct but likely better to rent it, esp for Platinum.
3. I don't own there but if you reserve a top week, you should be able to more than recoup that years fees for Platinum, not sure about Gold.
4. Potentially but either by cash or points if you owned MVC points. You just have to be certain it is the EXACT room type so you have a good chance not to change rooms.
5. Yes, just like a Condo the owners are responsible. If it's wiped out or received major damage, they could simply close the resort. In which case they'd take any proceeds (insurance/sale) then clear debts then distribute the rest to owners. Don't count on getting anything in this situation but you might. Realistically your biggest risks from a resort standpoint are the SA, having to pay maintenance fees when the resort is not open and airfare costs. Then there are the risks on the personal side.
6. Should be comparable but they are compounded over time as well, most went up a lot more than that this year..
7. You should plan the full 12 to 13 months in advance, if you can't plan at least 12 months, I likely wouldn't buy but use other means to visit. I would steer you away from Gold season unless this is when you'd travel AND you'd use it most years. Don't let finances push you to buy Gold. Even then, if you're looking at Gold and fairly flexible, a trader and exchanging through II is likely a better choice for most people than buying there.

Simple on the surface but everyone's situation is different. Just spend some time exploring the options so you know as well as possible what is best for you situation.

 

[Raro]

1. That is correct, no ROFR is my information.
2. Correct but likely better to rent it, esp for Platinum.
3. I don't own there but if you reserve a top week, you should be able to more than recoup that years fees for Platinum, not sure about Gold.
4. Potentially but either by cash or points if you owned MVC points. You just have to be certain it is the EXACT room type so you have a good chance not to change rooms.
5. Yes, just like a Condo the owners are responsible. If it's wiped out or received major damage, they could simply close the resort. In which case they'd take any proceeds (insurance/sale) then clear debts then distribute the rest to owners. Don't count on getting anything in this situation but you might. Realistically your biggest risks from a resort standpoint are the SA, having to pay maintenance fees when the resort is not open and airfare costs. Then there are the risks on the personal side.
6. Should be comparable but they are compounded over time as well, most went up a lot more than that this year..
7. You should plan the full 12 to 13 months in advance, if you can't plan at least 12 months, I likely wouldn't buy but use other means to visit. I would steer you away from Gold season unless this is when you'd travel AND you'd use it most years. Don't let finances push you to buy Gold. Even then, if you're looking at Gold and fairly flexible, a trader and exchanging through II is likely a better choice for most people than buying there.

Simple on the surface but everyone's situation is different. Just spend some time exploring the options so you know as well as possible what is best for you situation.

1. That is correct, no ROFR is my information.
2. Correct but likely better to rent it, esp for Platinum.
3. I don't own there but if you reserve a top week, you should be able to more than recoup that years fees for Platinum, not sure about Gold.
4. Potentially but either by cash or points if you owned MVC points. You just have to be certain it is the EXACT room type so you have a good chance not to change rooms.
5. Yes, just like a Condo the owners are responsible. If it's wiped out or received major damage, they could simply close the resort. In which case they'd take any proceeds (insurance/sale) then clear debts then distribute the rest to owners. Don't count on getting anything in this situation but you might. Realistically your biggest risks from a resort standpoint are the SA, having to pay maintenance fees when the resort is not open and airfare costs. Then there are the risks on the personal side.
6. Should be comparable but they are compounded over time as well, most went up a lot more than that this year..
7. You should plan the full 12 to 13 months in advance, if you can't plan at least 12 months, I likely wouldn't buy but use other means to visit. I would steer you away from Gold season unless this is when you'd travel AND you'd use it most years. Don't let finances push you to buy Gold. Even then, if you're looking at Gold and fairly flexible, a trader and exchanging through II is likely a better choice for most people than buying there.

Simple on the surface but everyone's situation is different. Just spend some time exploring the options so you know as well as possible what is best for you situation.

Thanks for the reply!

I will have to consider the gold vs platinum, we are usually flexible on time off from work so as long as we can get a week in the right month (July or November) or with the gold level I don’t think it will matter much, but like you said renting will certainly bring in more $$$ with choices in the platinum category… so if we would want to rent it out I assume we would just try to snag up the most sought after week 12-13 months ahead of time and then advertise it for rent if I understand it correctly? The names on the booking can change?

Looking at average US hotel room rate increase vs maintenance rate increase show the MF increasing about 20% faster which is a concern. Granted that takes all of US into account, couldn’t find numbers for St Thomas specifically so it’s hard to be exact.

 

[4TimeAway]

Sometimes the Platinum has a better resale ease and maybe better transfers.

 

[Pamplemousse]

As an MVC owner you will get a discount on cash bookings if you add extra nights with cash.
Or you might be able to use Bonvoy points- all room types are not always available with Bonboys.

 

[dj_drf]

I'm curious where / how you assessed average US hotel room rate increases to compare against MF increases?

 

[DRH90277]

I suspect you live on the mainland but not sure. Anyway, I suggest you explore ownership of one or two Platinum resales which would have strong rental and/or exchange prospects, probably even Ocean Front coastal units on the mainland. Think So. Carolina, Hawaii, or Florida. You would have a strong and flexible position beyond your one resort solution. Use the cash rents to rent the resort you want each year which may not be Frenchman's Cove. This might also be a way to lessen the higher risk of a costly natural disaster.

One great advantage of buying resale is that you can usually recover your investment should you want out.

A points purchase would probably be your worst option in terms of getting the reservation you want and the cost would be substantially higher.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for the reply!

I will have to consider the gold vs platinum, we are usually flexible on time off from work so as long as we can get a week in the right month (July or November) or with the gold level I don’t think it will matter much, but like you said renting will certainly bring in more $$$ with choices in the platinum category… so if we would want to rent it out I assume we would just try to snag up the most sought after week 12-13 months ahead of time and then advertise it for rent if I understand it correctly? The names on the booking can change?

Looking at average US hotel room rate increase vs maintenance rate increase show the MF increasing about 20% faster which is a concern. Granted that takes all of US into account, couldn’t find numbers for St Thomas specifically so it’s hard to be exact.

This would seem like the perfect scenario for owning a trading week and exchanging through II. This should work for all 3 Caribbean resorts if one plays the exchange game correctly. What it won't do is guarantee you a view type and it may delay your planning for other items, like airfare. The good news about doing this with a trader is there's no harm with trying for multiple options at once or different options on different years. A $2-3K up front and $2000 yearly should cover your yearly fees plus II membership and exchange fees. Worst case scenario it doesn't work out as well as expected and you're not in for a lot of money. Plus it'll keep you from having to find the perfect week there which would be a lot more limited than having around 5 of the usual trading weeks to chose from.

 

[Raro]

I'm curious where / how you assessed average US hotel room rate increases to compare against MF increases?

Found this after a quick google search and then just did the math, again, in no way apples to apples vs one specific resort location but at least a starting point

Average daily hotel room rate US 2022 | Statista

The average daily rate of hotels in the United States has mainly seen growth over the past 20 years. Due to inflation ADR peaked significantly in 2022.

www.statista.com

 

[Raro]

I suspect you live on the mainland but not sure. Anyway, I suggest you explore ownership of one or two Platinum resales which would have strong rental and/or exchange prospects, probably even Ocean Front coastal units on the mainland. Think So. Carolina, Hawaii, or Florida. You would have a strong and flexible position beyond your one resort solution. Use the cash rents to rent the resort you want each year which may not be Frenchman's Cove. This might also be a way to lessen the higher risk of a costly natural disaster.

One great advantage of buying resale is that you can usually recover your investment should you want out.

A points purchase would probably be your worst option in terms of getting the reservation you want and the cost would be substantially higher.

Yes we’re in florida, will look into your suggestion!

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Keep in mind that a Platinum week is usually easier to sell when the time comes to unload it.........




.

 

[momeason]

Yes we’re in florida, will look into your suggestion!

I would not recommend buying a Florida resort. There are way too many timeshares there. I am always able to get exchanges there
with little lead time. Hilton Head has a lot of timeshares also, but maybe not as many as Orlando. Myrtle Beach is not my cup of tea but it is popular. I picked Sheraton Desert Oasis for nothing many years ago. It has served us well. Unfortunately, we have been too busy the past 5 years and are not using it well. My son and daughter are on the deed though. My son wants to use it. Just have to get him to plan ahead..lol

 

[Raro]

I would not recommend buying a Florida resort. There are way too many timeshares there. I am always able to get exchanges there
with little lead time. Hilton Head has a lot of timeshares also, but maybe not as many as Orlando. Myrtle Beach is not my cup of tea but it is popular. I picked Sheraton Desert Oasis for nothing many years ago. It has served us well. Unfortunately, we have been too busy the past 5 years and are not using it well. My son and daughter are on the deed though. My son wants to use it. Just have to get him to plan ahead..lol

How does the exchanges work? Is it always week for week or are more desirable resort somehow more “powerful” for trading? Could I for example trade a week in st Martin for let’s say 2 weeks in the north east?

 

[Dean]

How does the exchanges work? Is it always week for week or are more desirable resort somehow more “powerful” for trading? Could I for example trade a week in st Martin for let’s say 2 weeks in the north east?

Spend time learning. It'll likely take you a few months to get fairly comfortable. Don't rush in for the "savings" of that first year, a better choice for your situation will be FAR more beneficial.

Exchanging is like for like but II's definition of like for like may not be the same as yours or mine. They ignore view and unit type (example a penthouse & reg unit trade the same). They also ignore the season (Platinum vs Gold for example). Rather they concentrate on the actual demand of the area and the rating of the resort. They also give more trade power to larger units and units deposited earlier rather than later. Then they create a wait list for the exact option you're requesting but it's not first come first served rather every time someone enters the wait list for that week/resort, the list is reshuffled and the latest addition may go to the front of the line. With II, to trade for 2 weeks, you'd need 2 deposits (unlike RCI) but with a lock off, you'd have that possibility with 2 exchange fees and potential unit size upgrade fees. For unit size upgrades think $100 per each increment (studio/1BR/2BR/3BR) unless it's under 60 days out. Marriott to Marriott exchanges are a reduced fee assuming you ONLY have Marriott's (inc Vistana/Westin) in your request. So exchanging a 2 BR that you lock off and deposit as a studio & 1 BR for say two 3BR would cost close to $1000 total including II membership. Obviously this is an extreme example, total cost for 2 exchanges using a 2 BR lock off is likely to be $700-800/year including II membership. Still that'll be far less than if you owned a week in the Caribbean and used that week with even a larger savings over exchanging a Caribbean week.

MVC doesn't have any resorts in St. Martin, for non MVC resorts or exchanges, the fees would be a little higher. Also II holds MVC deposits for up to 24 days in most cases.

 

[AlmostRetired]

will have to consider the gold vs platinum, we are usually flexible on time off from work so as long as we can get a week in the right month (July or November) or with the gold level I don’t think it will matter much, but like you said renting will certainly bring in more $$$ with choices in the platinum category… so if we would want to rent it out I assume we would just try to snag up the most sought after week 12-13 months ahead of time and then advertise it for rent if I understand it correctly? The names on the booking can change?

Sorry if this seems basic and it is not meant to insult. A timeshare can be used, traded or rented. There is a lot of combinations of the 3 depending on what you are trying to accomplish. The easy one is a place you enjoy going to all the time. Game, set and match point.

To get the most flexibility, the sweet spot if it fits you is a place you enjoy going to that rents well and trades well. My definition of rents well is 35% or more above MF. My definition of trades well is it gets you into the places you like to travel to in the months you like to travel. A unit that rents well will trade well but a unit that trades well might not rent well. It makes little sense to buy something that rents well unless it is a place you enjoy going to. The economics is typically if it rents well, hence trades well, you will likely pay more in purchasing resale. You will also likely get close to want you paid on selling. Something that does all three well is normally a platinum week. BTW, if you can find one that you enjoy going to, rents well and trade well and also a lock-off, that is even better.

The complete opposite of a week that does all three is one that does only one. The use all the time is easy. The one that rents all the time is a difficult one but a few people make it work. The trade only is the one I would like to expand a little upon and a scenario that many people use. In this scenario you may use it but that is not important. It usually doesn't rent well because the value is in the trading and a good rental increases the cost of purchasing. There are a number of Marriott properties that are inexpensive to buy platinum season, reasonably MF, and are great traders that have lock-off capabilities, meaning you can go for multiple weeks. Some trades may be more difficult than others but it would likely get you into any resort during the months of July-Nov.

For example, I own a pure trader at the Grand Chateau in Vegas. This is only one resort as an example and other members can offer their suggestions on what traders they own. We are a beach family that trades for mostly late June/July at the Grand Ocean in HHI, St Thomas in April, Aruba June through August, Ocean Point and Palms (Florida) April and sometimes summer. Last year we got 3 trades into the Grande Ocean, 2 in July, 1 in August. We have no plans to ever go to Vegas. It only gets MF for rental which is of no value compared to trading. I did not pay a lot and I will likely get what I paid for it when I sell. I also own at The Grande Ocean Platinum season. We either use or rent it. It is a great trader but the rental is so much greater value to me than a trade. I can get say 70% above MF and I typically use the money to travel outside of timeshares. I paid more for the Grande Ocean but will likely get what I paid.

You are asking a lot of good questions to a group of knowledgeable Marriott owners so I have no doubt you will figure out what works for you.

 

[Raro]

Sorry if this seems basic and it is not meant to insult. A timeshare can be used, traded or rented. There is a lot of combinations of the 3 depending on what you are trying to accomplish. The easy one is a place you enjoy going to all the time. Game, set and match point.

To get the most flexibility, the sweet spot if it fits you is a place you enjoy going to that rents well and trades well. My definition of rents well is 35% or more above MF. My definition of trades well is it gets you into the places you like to travel to in the months you like to travel. A unit that rents well will trade well but a unit that trades well might not rent well. It makes little sense to buy something that rents well unless it is a place you enjoy going to. The economics is typically if it rents well, hence trades well, you will likely pay more in purchasing resale. You will also likely get close to want you paid on selling. Something that does all three well is normally a platinum week. BTW, if you can find one that you enjoy going to, rents well and trade well and also a lock-off, that is even better.

The complete opposite of a week that does all three is one that does only one. The use all the time is easy. The one that rents all the time is a difficult one but a few people make it work. The trade I would like to expand a little upon is the trade only scenario that many people use. In this scenario you may use it but that is not important. It usually doesn't rent well because the value is in the trading and a good rental increases the cost of purchasing. There are a number of Marriott properties that are inexpensive to buy platinum season, reasonably MF, and are great traders that have lock-off capabilities, meaning you can go for multiple weeks. Some trades may be more difficult than others but it would likely get you into any resort during the months of July-Nov.

For example, I own a pure trader at the Grand Chateau in Vegas. This is only one resort as an example and other members can offer their suggestions on what traders they own. We are a beach family that trades for mostly late June/July at the Grand Ocean in HHI, St Thomas in April, Aruba June through August, Ocean Point and Palms (Florida) April and sometimes summer. Last year we got 3 trades into the Grande Ocean, 2 in July, 1 in August. We have no plans to ever go to Vegas. It only gets MF for rental which is of no value compared to trading. I did not pay a lot and I will likely get what I paid for it when I sell. I also own at The Grande Ocean Platinum season. We either use or rent it. It is a great trader but the rental is so much greater value to me than a trade. I can get say 70% above MF and I typically use the money to travel outside of timeshares. I paid more for the Grande Ocean but will likely get what I paid.

You are asking a lot of good questions to a group of knowledgeable Marriott owners so I have no doubt you will figure out what works for you.

Not insulting at all!! Thanks for your reply! So from what I gather Frenchman's cove does not offer lockoffs so i wouldn't be able to trade it for 2 weeks in a 1 bed/studio elsewhere?

Sounds like I should consider a 2 bed at the grand chateau as a pure trader, were really not Vegas people but if its a strong trader (and $1k less MF a year) and a lockoff we might be better off since we could trade for a 2 week stay in a 1bed/studio somewhere in the Caribbean (we travel just the 2 of us)

 

[AlmostRetired]

Not insulting at all!! Thanks for your reply! So from what I gather Frenchman's cove does not offer lockoffs so i wouldn't be able to trade it for 2 weeks in a 1 bed/studio elsewhere?

Sounds like I should consider a 2 bed at the grand chateau as a pure trader, were really not Vegas people but if its a strong trader (and $1k less MF a year) and a lockoff we might be better off since we could trade for a 2 week stay in a 1bed/studio somewhere in the Caribbean (we travel just the 2 of us)

Marriott does not have a 2 bedroom with a MF under 1k. I was not aware that was a criteria since you started out with the Frenchman Cove. I believe the 2 bedroom Chateau has an MF of about 1400. I sold my 2 bedroom Chateau a few years for a 3 bedroom so I am not sure. I personally would never go for a gold season trader. You can get less expensive great platinum traders then a Chateau. I only used this because I am familiar with it.

Be careful on using MF as the criteria. My first lesson learned. In 1995 I purchased two resales. A Marriott Monarch (HHI) and a Resort World International (Orlando), but with similar MF. Resort was my trader and traded like the Monarch. Over the years the kept their MF low which impacted the quality and the trade value. I gave it away in 2015 because I couldn't get into a Marriott unless it was silver season. At the time the MF was 1/2 that of the Monarch.

Chateau is only a platinum or platinum plus (week 52) so reserving a week with a good trade value is easy. I only trade into Marriott's but the 1 bedroom can often get you a two bedroom and the studio often get you a one bedroom both with a small upgrade fee.. Frenchman Cove is only two or three bedrooms and you can get a 2 bedroom with the 1 bedroom. I have no experience if you can get it with a studio.

 

[Raro]

Marriott does not have a 2 bedroom with a MF under 1k. I was not aware that was a criteria since you started out with the Frenchman Cove. I believe the 2 bedroom Chateau has an MF of about 1400. I sold my 2 bedroom Chateau a few years for a 3 bedroom so I am not sure. I personally would never go for a gold season trader. You can get less expensive great platinum traders then a Chateau. I only used this because I am familiar with it.

Chateau is only a platinum or platinum plus (week 52) so reserving a week with a good trade value is easy. I only trade into Marriott's but the 1 bedroom can often get you a two bedroom and the studio often get you a one bedroom both with a small upgrade fee.. Frenchman Cove is only two or three bedrooms and you can get a 2 bedroom with the 1 bedroom. I have no experience if you can get a studio.

Sorry I meant the MF was $1000 less at Chateau then at frenchman's (Frenchman's runs at about $2480)

Yeah I get the same feeling about getting gold season for a trader, sound like most recommend going with platinum's especially since they seem to be easier to resell.

What other good value platinum traders should I be on the lookout for?

 

[AlmostRetired]

What other good value platinum traders should I be on the lookout for?

I would be only repeating what I read and not from experience. I would rather others answer from experience.

 

[Dean]

I would be only repeating what I read and not from experience. I would rather others answer from experience.

I own 3 of the usual 5 trading resorts (Grande Vista, Harbour Lake & Willow Ridge). Most would remove Manor Club Sequel from this group as fees have increased. I do not own GC. If we concentrate on those 4 (GV, HL, WR & GC) 2 are Elite and 2 are the lower rated Premier. A couple of years ago I did an extensive evaluation using the info at my disposal looking at CA desert Gold weeks and Platinum weeks at the above 5 including MC. I compared TDI, RCI's TPU's and rental prices for the area from rental companies. I used the highest rated TDI for comparison other than I used 4th of July rather than Christmas for Orlando due to likely availability issues. Based on that I judged the trade power of MC, WR, and GC to be roughly the same. Gold CA and Orlando seemed demonstrably better than the others with the assumptions noted. My personal experience using the 3 I own suggests that the Elite vs Premier rating also plays a roll as a somewhat separate component which makes sense to me knowing how II has grouped trading options in the past though they will not formally disclose this information.

As an example, I had a several WR deposits including a 2 BR searching for week 26 at Grande Ocean for this past summer. I bought a GV Platinum week 2 years ago reserved the best week I could for the new GV ownership. I was able to get week 26 for the 1BR and 27 for the studio for 2023. These were deposited at around 10.5 months out while the other deposits were around 15 months ahead. I put in the same requests using the studio & 1BR as I already had in against a 2 BR & 1BR WR. I was very surprised that both of the GV deposits matched Grande Ocean but never matched with WR. My judgement is that WR was essentially disqualified for the week I was looking for that far out due to resort ratings. This is a whole separate discussion with a big rabbit hole associated but I do believe it's a very important factor for HIGH demand requests and not as much for other situations.

You may not be familiar with RCI but for that comparison I used resorts that were in both as much as possible and comparable resorts otherwise. That meant that for CA desert & Orlando I could do relatively head to head comparisons of trade power using TDI for II & TPU for RCI. For MC, Branson & LV I used the best resorts I could find. A summary of my final impressions is above. I did play with different weeks as well to get an idea of how the TPU varied week to week.

 

[5finny]

I own 3 of the usual 5 trading resorts (Grande Vista, Harbour Lake & Willow Ridge). Most would remove Manor Club Sequel from this group as fees have increased. I do not own GC. If we concentrate on those 4 (GV, HL, WR & GC) 2 are Elite and 2 are the lower rated Premier. A couple of years ago I did an extensive evaluation using the info at my disposal looking at CA desert Gold weeks and Platinum weeks at the above 5 including MC. I compared TDI, RCI's TPU's and rental prices for the area from rental companies. I used the highest rated TDI for comparison other than I used 4th of July rather than Christmas for Orlando due to likely availability issues. Based on that I judged the trade power of MC, WR, and GC to be roughly the same. Gold CA and Orlando seemed demonstrably better than the others with the assumptions noted. My personal experience using the 3 I own suggests that the Elite vs Premier rating also plays a roll as a somewhat separate component which makes sense to me knowing how II has grouped trading options in the past though they will not formally disclose this information.

As an example, I had a several WR deposits including a 2 BR searching for week 26 at Grande Ocean for this past summer. I bought a GV Platinum week 2 years ago reserved the best week I could for the new GV ownership. I was able to get week 26 for the 1BR and 27 for the studio for 2023. These were deposited at around 10.5 months out while the other deposits were around 15 months ahead. I put in the same requests using the studio & 1BR as I already had in against a 2 BR & 1BR WR. I was very surprised that both of the GV deposits matched Grande Ocean but never matched with WR. My judgement is that WR was essentially disqualified for the week I was looking for that far out due to resort ratings. This is a whole separate discussion with a big rabbit hole associated but I do believe it's a very important factor for HIGH demand requests and not as much for other situations.

You may not be familiar with RCI but for that comparison I used resorts that were in both as much as possible and comparable resorts otherwise. That meant that for CA desert & Orlando I could do relatively head to head comparisons of trade power using TDI for II & TPU for RCI. For MC, Branson & LV I used the best resorts I could find. A summary of my final impressions is above. I did play with different weeks as well to get an idea of how the TPU varied week to week.

@Dean
Thanks
I found this very informative
Do I have this right?

In terms of a "HIGH demand request" your analysis is that the traders would be ranked as follows:

Elite resorts

1) Gold Ca Desert weeks ( I assume Plat would be better but a usual higher purchase price excludes it as a "trader")
2) Grand Vista Plat
3) Grande Chateau Plat

Premier resorts

4) Willow Ridge, Harbor Lake, Manor Club all rated about the same

In terms of a non "High demand request" the resorts would be ranked :

1) Gold Ca Desert weeks
2) Grand Vista Plat
3) Grande Chateau, Willow Ridge, Harbor Lake, Manor Club all Plat and all rated about the same

Is that about right?

 

[Dean]

Basically, from a trade power standpoint and assuming a top week in season, I believe CA Platinum Elite would be best followed by GV Platinum and CA Gold as about equal. One thing to consider is that II appears to run the resort quality and trade power as somewhat independent issues. From what I've been able to gather they may not be as separate as they were 10 years ago but my info and my experiences would suggest they are still in play. I can't speak for II but I've followed this question for many years. A number of years ago I was able to establish that II actually had 3 different resort rating systems at the same time. The published one that we all see did not include Elite until a few years ago but even now it's still a very vague and general rating. At the time I was diving into it and had some more internal contacts than I do presently, I was able to establish that II used 2 additional rating systems. One an ABC based one and one based on a scoring system with 100 being the top score. I do not know for certain if they still use these or still use them the same way as they did at the time. At the time this was not supposed to be disclosed but occasionally you'd get a rep who would do so though more commonly they'd refuse to give the information but in doing so, confirm that these existed.

I've had quite a number of other exchange experiences that would fit into my thinking but since II is not giving out any of this info, it's just a glimmer here and there. Here's the crux of the matter. This is my view and the way I think about my chances of exchange for a given option. We tend to think of trade power and the chance of a given exchange as a linear issue but I don't believe it is. I think of exchange chances in terms of buckets and you must qualify to be in a given bucket. I believe that resort rating of a deposit compared to the rating of the desired exchange is one of the main qualifying factors to be in a given bucket. For sake of discussion let's say I want to exchange to an Elite resort with a rating of 95 but I'm trading a Premier resort with a rating of 80. The reality is I may be locked out of that exchange and it may sit there not matching even if I'm the only one with that exact search in place. We've all seen this where an exchange was sitting online but a given MVC deposit would not see that option.

Here are a few things one may see with this in mind. You may see more lower end matches with a lower rated resort that you don't see with a higher rated one. You may see more higher end matches with a higher rated resort and/or larger unit. All MVC resorts are Premier or Elite but if you have a non MVC resort that's lower rated, try comparing search results just looking at non MVC matches. That way you're bypassing the internal exchange preference which will skew any comparing online in this situation. It's quite enlightening.

Anyway each situation is different. For most realistic exchanges it likely won't make any difference in the ultimate chances of success if one plays the game correctly by getting the best week possible, depositing AND requesting early (at or more than 12-13 months out) and one is realistic. Just buy one of the "traders", get a top week, deposit early, request early and pray. However, if one is going for a top option that is clearly high demand, one may need to consider that the full 2 BR will improve chances and it's possible you still won't match so the more flexible you are the better. Also a backup plan is always a good idea for all situations. Do consider some of the nuances prior to buying like GV FL club or the 3BR situation. If there's a resort one may use part of the time that may play a large roll in the decision making.

 

[DRH90277]

Thank you Tug participants. It seems the value in use of timeshare is locked up and only unlocked by the combined experiences of Tug users willing to share. No doubt the timeshare experience is enlightened here.

Use of our family's timeshare portfolio is enhanced every year.

Again, thank you Tug contributors and users.

 

[AlmostRetired]

It seems the value in use of timeshare is locked up and only unlocked by the combined experiences of Tug users willing to share.

could not have been said it any better.

 

[AlmostRetired]

I think of exchange chances in terms of buckets and you must qualify to be in a given bucket. I believe that resort rating of a deposit compared to the rating of the desired exchange is one of the main qualifying factors to be in a given bucket. For sake of discussion let's say I want to exchange to an Elite resort with a rating of 95 but I'm trading a Premier resort with a rating of 80. The reality is I may be locked out of that exchange and it may sit there not matching even if I'm the only one with that exact search in place. We've all seen this where an exchange was sitting online but a given MVC deposit would not see that option.

I would like to support this point because I often forget this now that I own GO and GC. BTW, I co-run an II FB group with 15K members. I am going to cut and paste some your post because your overall full view is spot on. It might not matter to you but I will give Dean from the Tug group credit. If nothing else, it promotes TUG.

Supporting your Bucket point. When I bought my first resale in 1995 Marriott Monarch ($12,500) , I also purchased a 2 bedroom resale Resort World of Orlando ($3,500). They were consecutive summer fixed weeks so I never cared about TDI. I am not sure it was even around. Resort World was my first trader, never having stayed in the 20 years I owned it. I no longer remember the II ratings back than, but it was on par with Marriott. I traded the Resorts for the Monarch and exchanged my Monarch for 130K Marriott Reward Points. Over the years, Resort World minimized the MF increases at the expense of the quality of the resort and hence II rating. The management changed from Resort World to Celebrity and finally Legacy Vacation. I gave it away in 2015. At that point the MF of Resorts was half of the Monarch. I just reviewed my trades. If you notice, there are years I had no exchanges. I started to look for Marriott exchanges within 60 days of travel to make up for lost value. Sometimes my work, desirable availability or air fares did not support this approach. In case it is not obvious, I was tied to a school schedule. If unit size is not listed, it was a 2 bedroom.

Marriott's Monarch at Sea Pines 4 times - 1996-2000 (elected points each year). 440,000 travel award for 4 round trip tickets anywhere in world AA flew plus 2 one week stays at any Marriott and a discount on hertz rental though I do not remember the amount. My wife,2 sons and I did a London/Paris/Madrid/Malaga 23 day trip in 2000. This was when the rewards program was best in breed
Marriott's Heritage Club Labor Day Weekend 2001 ( We wanted to golf this year. All free rounds were at the Heritage Golf Club)
====== This is where I noticed the change in trade value
Marriott's Villas at Doral - Christmas 2002
Star Island Resort and Club - Christmas 2003 (gave this to my BIL)
Marriott Vacation Club Pulse Boston 1 bedroom Christmas 2004
Fort Lauderdale Beach Resort July - 2006 (gave this to my BIL)
Villa Roma Resort Lodges - Christmas 2007 - My nephew from Florida wanted to go skiing.
ESJ Towers Hotel 1 bedroom Thanksgiving - 2008
Water's Edge Resort and Spa 1 Bedroom Labor day 2009
Marriott's Fairway Villas - New Years 2011
Marriott's Aruba Surf Club - Studio April 2013
Marriott's Aruba Surf Club - August (within 60 day Trade) 2013
Marriott's Canyon Villas at Desert - 1 bedroom Christmas 2014
Marriott's Ocean Pointe Studio - Christmas 2015