The Grand Mayan Scams Senior Citizens

[MAIDENPHILLY]

Hello, I am writing this with my daughter. I was in Mexico for a funeral of a very close loved one. I usually travel with my children or my church group so I am not accustomed to travelling alone. Now before anyone jumps on me for not being a responsible adult or for signing a contract that was not properly explained, certianly embellished and turned out to be something I could not afford to maintain. While the contract to purchase may say that senior citizen fees are reduced and waived at 75 yrs and 77 yrs respectively, I was told that the fees were waved at 70yrs. I was never advised to consult with an attorney or a tax consultant and effectively what I did was eliminate myself from the ability to collect (the total) Medicare benefits I was previously entitled to and provide a big problem for my children who will be forced to own this property or give it away for nothing because they cannot afford to maintain it for the next 22 years. I am 75 years old why (other than to scam) would someone who has a fiduciary duty to not write bad contracts sell a 25 year option on a timeshare to someone who, even if I lived to 100 yrs old I surely wouldn't be able to jet from New Jersey to Alcopulco. I'm sure there are plenty of people who allow their credit to get ruined and not pay on the timeshare, I wanted to try and work out an arrangement with Mayan resorts to exempt me from the Maintenance and Renovation fee since I do not go there and have never once used it. I own the timeshare, it's paid off. I have no intention of ever going there and so Im sure someone makes a lot of money off my unused weeks. Since they are making that money off my guranteed always available Master Grand Suite why not have them pay the fees? My palace is going to be renovated, Im supposed to pay for that while other people vacation in it? If you rent out my timeshare (and you know you do since it is a prime 2 weeks) then you pay for the fees. That's how they told me I could make money off this thing, by renting out to other people and charge them enough to recoup your money and make some money. Well, since I am not in the business of renting (the Grand Mayan is) then when you rent my place out charge the appropriate fees.

While many people might be saying boohoo lady you got yourself into this, I was not in my right mind when I was there. In the US it could surely be argued that I was incapable of making the contract. I know there are many people out there who fall victim to promises and lies and are unfamiliar with contracts, there should be a licensed US bar attorney and tax consultant available during these sales presentations to help US Citizens understahnd the implication of the purchase before they leave the room. I know if a tax consultant told me that my childrens meger inheritance was going to be taken by a Mexican Congolmerate I would have never purchased this timeshare.

I highly doubt there is any way to help me at this point before I just stop paying and deal with a forclosure. The Grand Mayan is not in the business to exempt Maintenance fees, nor are they in the business to negotiate. I've tried on more than one occasion to tell them that the Senior exemption told to me was 70 yrs. Unless you have a tape recorder with you just stay away from the sales presentations, you get more fairy tales at those presentations than from an entire afternoon with Mother Goose.

 

[siesta]

we see this happening often unfortunately, and even though ultimately it is your fault for signing the contract, it is still awful what their sales team is capable of. Here is my advice, repost the entire situation, with AS MANY names as possible sales person, managers, people at the concierge, anythign you can remember, get specific, exactly how it happened, all the nasty tricks they pulled, all the lies and misdirection. After you do this forward a link to your thread to the Mayan contact you have. Hopefully they will let you out of your contract to avoid the bad press this will cause. Tell them you will also bring it to your local newspapers attention, and how this is an important scam for senior citizens to watch out for. Good luck!

edit: It is worth mentioning you have right to rescind (cancel the contract) but must act within the timeframe, refer to your paperwork for that information. This is obviously the best solution if applicable.

 

[Tropical lady]

had to read several times.......

Whew !!! A long and confusing read to TRY to understand the issues.
First, you state you are 75. What is the issue of being told 70 as the age for reduced MF? You are at 75 for 50% MF and then 77 for no MF unless this was not negotiated in your contract. This waiver does exist and is used by all who qualify. In addition, many of us have a waiver for mandatory MF that you only pay a MF if you use the week....therefore if never used, no MF!
Not sure what this has to do with your Medicare benefits that you referenced.
Grupo Mayan does not rent units (wish they did), charge for renovations, etc.
You never mentioned that you tried to speak with them after the sale or communicated with Member Services.
I certainly do not want to offend anyone, but I have to say that I am suspicious of this story after reviewing the content and the statements made. If this is legit, I apologize, contact the company and see if it can be worked out before you go through a smear campaign.

 

[pittle]

I must admit that I agree with Tropical lady on some points. Your post is somewhat confusing and Grupo Mayan does not rent your units. I have been an owner since 1999 and no matter what a salesman tells you, that does not happen!

When did you purchase this unit? It sounds like you are past the 5 days that you can rescind with no problems. It also sounds like you were in Acapulco when you purchased. Were you given the no mainentance fees unless you go option? If so, don't worry. You will have to pay the extra m/f every 5 years. We do have this on all but 1 of our units and it helps a bunch when family is not traveling with us.

The Grand Mayan is a wonderful place to go and you have several other locations that you or your children & grandchildren can go without even using RCI. If you cannot rescind, make a special point to use your week and take family members with you. They may decide that they do want to go there at least until the 25 year renewal comes up. I certainly understand the feelings you have about your children's obligations. If the unit is only in your name, I would not think that they would be obligated to continue payments or maintenance fees. We are counting on that for some of our timeshares. Just do not put it in your will. Actually, they do not have to accept it as an inheritance.

My husband & I own 4 Mayan Palace weeks and 2 Grand Mayan weeks. All but one of our contracts has the Senior Certificate that you mentioned. When my husband is 75, we pay 1/2 of the maintenance fees and when he is 77, we will pay no m/f if we are the ones traveling. We have already made the decision not to renew our contracts when they come up for renewal from 2024 - 2031. We will get a few "free" m/f weeks on all of our contracts for a few years, but only have 2 that will go until hubby is 86. I just hope that we still are able to travel then.

 

[rickandcindy23]

If I had this sales pitch and bought at 75 years old and had regrets, and paid for the timeshare in full, as you stated, then I would just not pay the maintenance fees and suffer the consequences. At 75, I wouldn't care about my credit rating.

It's very hard to read your post.

 

[MAIDENPHILLY]

Hi Tropical, I have no idea why you think I would waste my time lodging a complaint against a company if my story were not "legit"
I was told there were NO MF fees for seniors 70 + years of age. I don't care what I initialed obviously I am not denying what I signed and what it all meant at the time.
Since there were no MF fees last year "due to the economy" (is what I was told) I had no idea that the MF fee from year 2 is past due. Year 3 MF was exempt for everyone so I am told "due to economy" Now they want year 2 and year 4 MF Fee and now a Renovation fee.

If anyone thinks I am full of it I will happily scan a copy of this outrageous invoice and post it. Renovation fee 2009 700.07, Late Fee renovation fee 2009 33.34
MF 2008 684.93
Late MF Fee 2008 34.25 for 08, 08 and now 10

MF 2009 684.93
Late MF Fee 34.25

It is a Mayan Resoirts Invoice and quite clearly is charging for renovation and mf fees.

I called the Accounting and Payments dept at 1.866.888.0587 and so have my children, do you think they are going to tell us "no problem we will waive your fees because your Mom says so" No way they deny that I heard what I heard and they deny that their sales team took advantage of a senior on her own. They do not offer US Legal counsel or tax advice even though they sold a piece of real property to a US citizen. We spoke to them, but aside from waiving fees which they are not going to do, where is my recourse? Was I supposed to ask the agent on the phone for a miracle? "Can you rip up my contact and refund my money? I had no idea what I was doing at the time, I was overcome with grief and emotion and made a financial decision I cannot afford.

Its great Tropical that these destinations work out for some people, but for someone who is in their 70's a 25 lease deal on ANYTHING is outrageous.
Thank you siesta, my daughter is coming back over and she has all the notes of who I called after I got home and the original contract with signatures. I only have the New Members Verification Statement annual agreement form that I initialled.

 

[pianodinosaur]

maidenphilly:

El Grupo Maya definitely has a high pressure sales department. However, now that you have the property, I strongly suggest that you use it or permit members of your family to use it. The Grand Mayans are excellent resorts.

If you really want to kick yourself, go to ebay and see what they can be purchased for resale. Then again, most of us here learned about the resale market after a direct purchase. Welcome to the club.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Mayan salespeople are known for their lies, and I still think I wouldn't pay.

You probably paid a lot of money for this week, so letting go of something that was so costly would be very difficult. I know it would be for me.

This is quite a pickle. Timeshare salespeople are so sleazy. I don't know how they sleep at night.

 

[MAIDENPHILLY]

If I had this sales pitch and bought at 75 years old and had regrets, and paid for the timeshare in full, as you stated, then I would just not pay the maintenance fees and suffer the consequences. At 75, I wouldn't care about my credit rating.

It's very hard to read your post.

I am not trying to garner sympathy but I do not read or write well anymore. It isn't easy to keeps facts and figures in my head straight and I get confused. I m sorry it is hard to read my posts as a result.

That is what my children are advising rick. Ive never not paid my bills. I wanted to resolve this without going to a forclosure. However my son is very angry that the inital investment will be forfeited if I forclose and if they keep it after my death because they cannot unload it they are stuck paying for the MF fees and they surely will never use the timeshare either. They will be forced to spend the next 20+ yrs looking for people to use the facility and pay the MF fees in exchange for use to offset the costs. That's almost a full time job!

 

[rickandcindy23]

Why wouldn't the kids want to use this week? They could deposit it into an exchange company and go elsewhere. I know that SFX will take your week, so you needn't pay a huge amount of money to belong to an exchange company.

Everyone travels, but I have never been to Mexico myself and still haven't the desire to go, but I do know that SFX can get a vacation for your kids that they would really enjoy and might even take you along.

We take my 82-year-old mother-in-law with us every year to Hawaii, and you aren't that old to travel for a while longer.

Most timeshares do have maintenance fees annually. Some Mayan deals include a clause that says you only pay the fees when you use the week.

Most of my maintenance fees are at over above $881, although I have some that are lower ($630 for one resort), so that is not even a high fee. What you are dealing with isn't that bad, if you learn to use it for your benefit.

As far as value, the timeshare has basically zero value. I hate to tell you that, but it's unfortunately true, because Mayan charges $3K to transfer title to a buyer. It's difficult just to find someone to take the timeshare for free, with that $3K transfer fee to pay.

 

[Conan]

Is this what happened?

You purchased one (or two?) weeks in 2008 when you were age 73. The salespeople gave you the impression that you were old enough to never pay maintenance fees, whether or not you were actually using your week.

But your contract actually provides that only now, at age 75, whether or not you use your week, you pay half-maintenance, and at age 77 the maintenance goes away.

And I suppose for the rest of your life starting at age 77 there will be nothing more to pay (but if somebody other than yourself uses the week then the maintenance for that year must be paid?)

As to why you made the purchase even based on their lies, you did not visit in 2008 or 2009 even though you thought you could have done so for free?

And either your children have no desire to use your week, or if they did use it (without you being present) then the mainenance would have to be paid?

It seems to me your biggest economic loss is the price you paid to buy the week(s), perhaps in the range of $15,000 to $30,000. But that money is long gone if you made the purchase years ago.

So you can risk your credit rating and pay nothing (eventually they will probably foreclose). Or you can pay what's past due, and I guess pay the half-maintenance for 2010 and 2011, and then just forget you ever bought it.

 

[mikenk]

WOW!
This was one hard thread to understand.

It sounds like you bought several years ago assuming that there was no maintenance fee for anyone over 70 based on a promise by a friendly Mayan sales person; subsequently, you failed to read your contract to realize it was actually at 77 (1/2 price at 75). Do I have this right?

Now Grupo Mayan is billing you for the fees owed via the contract. Right?

I'm sorry, but in my mind, what is in the contract should be followed. I have no idea why people refuse to read the contracts before they sign - or even after they sign.

Mike

 

[DeniseM]

Just curious - when you originally bought this timeshare, how did you plan to use it? - Maybe we can help you with that.

Be aware that your children cannot be FORCED to accept an inheritance that they do not want - no one can.

At this point in time, it is very unlikely that you will be able to get out of this contract because:

1) US Law/courts have no authority in Mexico.
2) You purchased several years ago.
3) A contract out-weighs any verbal promises - whether you read it or not - this is true in the US as well.

It's a long shot, but consider contacting Profeco, a consumer agency in Mexico that helps resolve issues like this. More info.

Before you contact Profeco, spend some time editing your complaint so it is clear and conscise. In your letter to Profeco, answer these questions and leave out everything else.

1. Exactly what did you buy (include date, contract number, etc.)

2. Exactly what were you promised verbally.

3. Exactly what is the problem.

4. What solution are you looking for.

Leave everything else out - it just confuses your message.

 

[aliikai2]

My Mother just flew from Seattle to Kauai

on Thursday, then to Kona yesterday and they will go to Maui on Wednesday. She will be 83 next month.

You are only 75, you should have several great years of use ahead of you, and these resorts are great.

If you chose not to go the Mexico, you can use RCI or SFX ( San Fransisco Exchange) or TPI ( Trading Places) to trade these weeks into resorts that you can use in the US for both you and your family.

The other option is to not pay the fees, and they will take them back.

Your family is concerned about that initial investment and trying to protect it, the $20-30K that you paid is already gone, and was as soon as your 5 days after purchase passed 5 years ago .

So, there are your options. You and your family need to sit down and decide if they want to keep using this membership, or not. It is really that simple.

fwiw,

Greg

I am 75 years old why (other than to scam) would someone who has a fiduciary duty to not write bad contracts sell a 25 year option on a timeshare to someone who, even if I lived to 100 yrs old I surely wouldn't be able to jet from New Jersey to Alcopulco.

 

[pittle]

Ok - you have had numerous responses. Mikenk, aliikai2 and I have each owned at MP, GM, &/or GB or G/L for several years and have a wealth of information about the Grupo Mayan Resorts. We understand your plight, but do need more info - when & where did you purchase would be a start. Your original post was exceptionally vague, so we cannot help you.

 

[Tropical lady]

Ok Maidenphilly,
If you read the other responses, you will see that others agree in part or with me that your info is confusing and very hard to reply with a good suggestion. Since some of us do have a t/s with this company, we do understand the good and not so good points of the contracts, but can't offer assistance with something you purchased, we think, in 2008 and are just NOW posting issues. This is TWO (2) years after the fact IF we read you correctly!! We are asking....what did you purchase (master room, 1 bdrm, 2 bdrm??), how many weeks, what IS your MF? Did you get the 75/50%MF and 77 no MF? Did you get a vacation fair week with the week you purchased? Did you get the waiver for mandatory MF unless used?
The invoice you referenced that you have been getting for 2 years sounds like you do not have the waivers.
As suggested, there are options for renting, trading, or just giving it away to get out from the t/s. Other than these suggestions I am not sure what your expectations are.

 

[pittle]

Maidenphilly - the more I read what you posted, it seems like you must have purchased a 1 or 2 bedroom unit at the Grand Mayan in 2004 for your Renovation Fees to be due in 2009. If it is for a 2-bedroom unit, the m/f are lower than most.

As I stated before, we have been owners of Mayan Palace and Grand Mayan units for 11 years. All of our contracts have the 1 extra maintenance fee for renovation of units every 5 years.

Yes, in 2009, the maintenance fees were waived if you did not travel. I was impressed that they did that. This was very unusual in the timeshare industry and none of my other timeshare memberships offered this option.

It sounds like you have 2 options - don't pay and lose your original investment, or if you are 75 or close, go ahead and pay the 2008 m/f and 2009 renovation fee and start enjoying your timeshare. Like I said, you must go to the resort to get the free usage. You can take guests with you, but you cannot just send family or friends and not go. You cannot deposit it with an exchange company or rent it out without paying the m/f.

The 5 year renovation fee will still be due in 2014, 2019, 2024, and by 2029, you can skip the next 25 year renewal that has the 5x the current m/f to re-up.

I know this does not help, but that is how it works.

 

[Tropical lady]

getting on the band wagon......

I think Pittle is correct that if you are being billed for a renovation fee, that is an every 5 year occurance for 25 year renewal, you must be 5 years into this contract. Mikenk and Pittle have posted good, informative comments to you.
However, I can't let go of the fact that you are crying scam when: 1. with no time frames from you we can only surmise that you are probably 5 years into this....5 years and posting now!, 2. 2009 MF's were waived by the company if the week was not used due to the economy.....name another company who did this, 3. during a limited time program a waiver from mandatory MF's if week not used....name another comapny that has this, 4. Has a program in place to offer MF 50%/at 75 and no MF at 77........what other program has this?
I reviewed each of my 4 contracts since 2007 and find everything you mentioned is spelled out in each contract or addendum. As previously mentioned, they do have a right to enforce the contract that you did not understand.
A post like this is an unfair vehicle (I'm referring to time frame involved, lack of specifics with general statements) which will affect ANY t/s company mentioned and diminishes the severity of a true scam that needs to be publicized, discussed, and solutions offered.

 

[nazclk]

No age limit

I think there is no age limit they are just out and out crooks.

 

[mikenk]

I think there is no age limit they are just out and out crooks.

Huh!! strange and irrelevant comment.

Let's see. Someone signs a contract that clearly says that they owe full maintenance fees until age 75 at which time they owe 50%; at age 77, they owe nothing, In 2009, the company waived maintenance fees for the year if you didn't use. The company does expect the person to pay the back maintenance fees per the contract. Your suggestion is that this company is crooked. Interesting perspective.

In a good ole USA deeded timeshare, the person would owe the back maintenance fees, would owe the full fees until age 80, until age 90, until 100, until 110. Tell me again, who are the crooks?

 

[siesta]

Huh!! strange and irrelevant comment.

I don't think so. I think it is spot on. I know, I know its a contract, a fool and his money are easily parted, etc etc., but the fact of the matter is senior citizens are often targeted for all sorts of scams. I feel bad for my elders.

 

[mikenk]

I don't think so. I think it is spot on. I know, I know its a contract, a fool and his money are easily parted, etc etc., but the fact of the matter is senior citizens are often targeted for all sorts of scams. I feel bad for my elders.

I understand that senior citizens are targeted for scams; I am one.

The question is: "Despite the flashy title, is this senior citizen getting scammed by the Grand Mayan?" from this thread, I think not.

I know that because of the high pressure sales tactics of the sales force with their many exaggerations, Grupo Mayan is this forum's primary whipping boy. However, I do not believe in an instant they are targeting senior citizens.

Twice now while vacationing there, I have seen this blind 90ish year old man being escorted out to a chair by the pool and ocean where he likes to stay almost all day; there is a Grand Mayan staff person always there and very attentive to his every need. Things like this are not reported or understood by people who just read threads and draw conclusions.

There is more to judge a resort than just it's sales force. Unfortunately, because of the title of this thread, I assume they will now be judged also as a senior citizen scammer - generally by people who have never been there.

 

[pittle]

I agree with Mikenk - Grupo Mayan gets a bad rap. Yes, the sales force is more aggressive than many (but not all), but the resorts and service are awesome! That is why we own a total of 6 weeks and have the option of paying additional m/f and can go 6 more weeks if we want.

When we have been on vacation we have noticed how many 75+ looking folks take tours at several resorts - not just the Grupo Mayan ones. My guess is that they are thinking about how nice the resorts are and how much their children would enjoy inheriting these. They can use a few years and then give them to the kids.

When we bought our first Mayan Palace, we were not seniors, but since we are now in our early 60's and retired, I guess we are there now. On numerous occasions commented that we hope that when we are 85 like some guests are, that we will still be going there and enjoying our little piece of paradise.

We bought so that we could go to awesome resorts when we retired, and we do. We seldom even exchange any more. We bought where we wanted to go. We already owned one timeshare when we purchased from the developer, so had already been through the spiel elsewhere and knew they were not telling everything exactly like it was, but we still bought! We have since purchased additional weeks on eBay and sold other resorts so that we could just concentrate on the Mexico resorts and most specifically MP/GM. Our family loves to join us at these resorts.

I know that I am not the typical "little old lady". I learned at a young age to not sign anything unless you read it because what is on paper is what you agreed to. I am so analytical when making large purchases that it takes me a while and I actually read and ask questions about everything. Sometimes it embarrasses my hubby, but we do not get the wool pulled over our eyes very often. The last time we went to an update meeting and did not upgrade, I think the guy was glad we finally left!

 

[Tropical lady]

scam?......don't think so....

Thank you Mikenk and Pittle for your comments !!
I don't want to see ANY company accused of a "scam" when the facts don't support it. Now it shows in a title to a thread and if someone does not read the comments, it becomes an automatic opinion.
I'm skeptical about this particular topic. Again, I apologize upfront, but if you read the several responses from the poster, they appear to be written by more than the one person. The wording and ability to post thoughts differ among the paragraphs. Compare the first paragraph with the others posted.
I keep in mind that forums are for everyone to communicate, inform, educate, and assist one another. I can't believe we have devoted this many replies to the poster other than to jump on the band wagon. Yes, we need to identify issues appropriatly, but why would we want to continue to trash the t/s industry that we have bought into and enjoy and want ALL our companies to do well. It only benefits us !!
BTW.....age has nothing to do with having common sense. I look forward to enjoying 1/2 at 75 and 0 at 77 which is not that far in the future !!

 

[DeniseM]

The poster stated originally that her daughter was helping her write, so yes, it is being written by more than one person.