"The end of the middle class traveler in Hawaii is near"

[magmue]

Online article from SF Gate. It was not firewalled for me.

 

[Rjbeach2003]

Yes I guess if we were to look now for a Hawaii trip we would think twice. Our Timeshare on the Big Island costs close to $1900/week basing that on maintenance fees. 2 bedroom. I think just a few years ago it figured to cost us about $1500. Airfares are higher.

 

[JIMinNC]

That struck me as a clickbait article with a sensationalist headline designed to attract clicks without real facts in the story itself to support the headline.

The fact is the 25% rise in average nightly rates from 2019 to 2025 is pretty close to the overall inflation rate for those same years, which according to Google Gemini AI was 26.7%. Yes, hotel prices have gone up, but so has virtually everything else in the last 5-6 years.

Also, the rates they quote struck me as unrealistically low for Hawaii. Unless you choose to stay at a Motel 6 in an industrial area of Honolulu, I can’t imagine finding a $300-$400 per night hotel anywhere I would want to stay. Most hotel rates in Waikiki, Kaanapali, Wailea, Waikoloa/Kohala, and Poipu are closer to $800-$1000 per night for a decent place.

Years ago, Hawaii was an upscale destination, but became more mainstream in the 1980s-1990s when air travel became more accessible to the masses. Once AirBnB came along, that’s when the lower end market really could afford Hawaii, but that’s when the overtourism started. AirBnB has had that negative impact almost everywhere.

Maybe we are just reverting to the mean, but honestly, I don’t find Hawaii that much more expensive than other similar destinations. We paid $1000/nt for a hotel in the Cayman Islands a few years ago, and that wasn’t the most expensive option by far.

 

[vacationtime1]

That struck me as a clickbait article with a sensationalist headline designed to attract clicks without real facts in the story itself to support the headline.

The fact is the 25% rise in average nightly rates from 2019 to 2025 is pretty close to the overall inflation rate for those same years, which according to Google Gemini AI was 26.7%. Yes, hotel prices have gone up, but so has virtually everything else in the last 5-6 years.

Also, the rates they quote struck me as unrealistically low for Hawaii. Unless you choose to stay at a Motel 6 in an industrial area of Honolulu, I can’t imagine finding a $300-$400 per night hotel anywhere I would want to stay. Most hotel rates in Waikiki, Kaanapali, Wailea, Waikoloa/Kohala, and Poipu are closer to $800-$1000 per night for a decent place.

Years ago, Hawaii was an upscale destination, but became more mainstream in the 1980s-1990s when air travel became more accessible to the masses. Once AirBnB came along, that’s when the lower end market really could afford Hawaii, but that’s when the overtourism started. AirBnB has had that negative impact almost everywhere.

Maybe we are just reverting to the mean, but honestly, I don’t find Hawaii that much more expensive than other similar destinations. We paid $1000/nt for a hotel in the Cayman Islands a few years ago, and that wasn’t the most expensive option by far.

+1

If/when Hawaii really wants to reduce middle class tourism, it will force cutbacks on the number of AirBnB units, Southwest Airlines landings, and timeshares.

 

[Luanne]

That struck me as a clickbait article with a sensationalist headline designed to attract clicks without real facts in the story itself to support the headline.

The fact is the 25% rise in average nightly rates from 2019 to 2025 is pretty close to the overall inflation rate for those same years, which according to Google Gemini AI was 26.7%. Yes, hotel prices have gone up, but so has virtually everything else in the last 5-6 years.

Also, the rates they quote struck me as unrealistically low for Hawaii. Unless you choose to stay at a Motel 6 in an industrial area of Honolulu, I can’t imagine finding a $300-$400 per night hotel anywhere I would want to stay. Most hotel rates in Waikiki, Kaanapali, Wailea, Waikoloa/Kohala, and Poipu are closer to $800-$1000 per night for a decent place.

Years ago, Hawaii was an upscale destination, but became more mainstream in the 1980s-1990s when air travel became more accessible to the masses. Once AirBnB came along, that’s when the lower end market really could afford Hawaii, but that’s when the overtourism started. AirBnB has had that negative impact almost everywhere.

Maybe we are just reverting to the mean, but honestly, I don’t find Hawaii that much more expensive than other similar destinations. We paid $1000/nt for a hotel in the Cayman Islands a few years ago, and that wasn’t the most expensive option by far.

We're renting a 3-bedroom in Kihei for $485/night for next Feb/March. If we had rented something smaller it would have been less. Yes, paying more than in years past, but not in the $800-$1000/night range.

 

[jp10558]

Maybe these articles are part of the stopping overtourism plan? I've never been to Hawaii, but I also find the hassle for getting there overwhelms my current desire to go. Part of that is where I live, but it's easier to drive down to Florida (and cheaper), it's faster to fly to Europe or the Caribbean. Now hearing it's super expensive also puts me off (though this of course is where TS shine).

 

[silentg]

We have been to Hawaii twice, loved it both times.

 

[beejaybee]

Upcoming week's stay on Hawaii in 2-bedroom Wyndham Kona Coast cost us $650 (PnP mf + exchange fee using 29 TPUs and still have 11 TPUs left). Budget SUV rental via Costco $420.
It's the airfare that's killer!

 

[rickandcindy23]

Any person with knowledge of Redweek can easily get a nice studio oceanfront or ocean view on Maui for $2,800-3,600. Those sleep four people. It's more for a one bedroom.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Bay Club 2 bedroom A penthouse is now just under $350 USD a night (for a 7 day block). Up? Yes, but not $1000 a night. What really annoys is the "nickel and dimeing" everything else there.

 

[ScoopKona]

The Hawaii travel fora are chock full of people who refuse to plan anything.

Their idea of visiting Hawaii is, "Take a week off from work next month. Hop on Expedia to book airfare, rental car and the most luxe resort on the island. And then visit Hawaii travel fora to snivel about costs."

Usually they have two of the three big-ticket items booked, no refunds possible, and they're looking for the $1 room at the Four Seasons.

I wonder if other destinations deal with this? For instance, "I'm flying to JFK next week. I need a two bedroom hotel suite in Midtown with a view. Preferably a view of the park. My budget is $100 per night. Also, how can I get from the airport to mid-town for $25? No public transportation!"

The article closes with: "By focusing too heavily on wealthier visitors, Hawaii may be sacrificing some of the values that make it unique, and alienating those who genuinely want to engage with its culture and environment in a respectful way."

Well THAT'S a laugh riot. Here's a translation: "I refuse to accept the basic economics of supply and demand. And I expect luxury products to be subsidized. For instance, those greedy winemakers at Moet and Chandon are getting $500 for a bottle of Dom P. Plenitude. How can normal people afford to drink a bottle of that every night?"

EDIT -- And the ones who blather on about "engaging with the culture and environment in a respectful way" are almost always the most difficult visitors. The kind who snap their fingers at rental counter clerks and the person stocking the shelves at KTA.

 

[SmithOp]

Hawaii certainly doesn't need more idiots like the one holding up Honu for a photo.

 

[jp10558]

The Hawaii travel fora are chock full of people who refuse to plan anything.

It's not just Hawaii. I don't know why a large number of people in the world can't plan literally anything. My boss has "not known" a day in advance several times this year if he's going on a weekend / holiday trip with or to see family. From what I can tell, he just "locked in" flying Tuesday night from Philly to Minnesota yesterday for the holiday. I don't even want to imagine how much of a PITA and cost that was to book (or maybe he jumped on it as a last minute cancellation on a flight or something?).

We spent over a month trying to get some family to decide if they were coming to Thanksgiving or not and they couldn't decide till about a week ago. Like, these aren't surprises - it's basically the same time every year.

But I see it as a consumer of what ought to be professional people's services too. Doctors who can't pick a starting date or plan for months for chemo for my mom. Builders who can't schedule the work beyond "Maybe late fall, Maybe spring sometime". Wild swings for estimates (This is the cost. Oh, wait, you might need a little gravel. Oh, wait, you really need $2k of gravel 6" deep. The garage door is $8k+, oh wait, I can install it for $2,500 total. Like WTAF? We need the first payment "sometime", Oh, now we need the next payment in 3 days. We're not sure how / when we're billing the final payment, whenever we happen to actually finish the work). Lawyers who continually ghost you, but keep doing "just enough" so you don't want to start over with someone else. Random if they respond to phone calls, e-mails, messages.

I guess putting all that together can make it impossible to plan myself for stuff sometimes, because I have no idea if something I've been struggling to get done for a year will suddenly be able to move forward on random day with little to no warning, and if I say "hey, I'm booked that day cause you gave me no notice" I get to wait another 5+ months to try again.

It does seem obvious to me that even hotels are getting harder to book "on the night". I'm not sure if that's more travel, or just Hilton or what, but I used to be able to (say 12 years ago) go on the app and book a night at a hotel basically wherever I was driving like 2 hours before I was going to show up. Now that would be very risky to try and do, and of course more expensive too.

 

[ScoopKona]

Bay Club 2 bedroom A penthouse is now just under $350 USD a night (for a 7 day block). Up? Yes, but not $1000 a night. What really annoys is the "nickel and dimeing" everything else there.

Resort fees and parking fees are not going away. Since most people pick the least expensive resort, and they don't read the fine print, Hilton, Marriott and similar are going to tack on as many fees as they can get away with. Up in Waikoloa (aka Haolewood) those fees approach $100 per night. And yet it seems that half the visitors to the Big Island end up at one of those nickle-and-dime resorts because, "I heard it was good!"

I have no idea where they're hearing this. They never say. They often drop by Hawaii travel fora. "I'm staying at the Hilton Waikoloa Village. But the parking fees are OUTRAGEOUS! Can I uber to Kona every day instead?"

Hawaii certainly doesn't need more idiots like the one holding up Honu for a photo.

Or driving down boat ramps into the Pacific Ocean. Or petting monk seals.

My favorite example was the guy picking up a turtle and heaving it into the water while screaming, "I know what I'm doing!" over and over.

 

[JIMinNC]

We're renting a 3-bedroom in Kihei for $485/night for next Feb/March. If we had rented something smaller it would have been less. Yes, paying more than in years past, but not in the $800-$1000/night range.

Any person with knowledge of Redweek can easily get a nice studio oceanfront or ocean view on Maui for $2,800-3,600. Those sleep four people. It's more for a one bedroom.

Bay Club 2 bedroom A penthouse is now just under $350 USD a night (for a 7 day block). Up? Yes, but not $1000 a night. What really annoys is the "nickel and dimeing" everything else there.

My point was the article was trying to make the point that only wealthy travelers will soon be able to travel to Hawaii due to prices rising above $300/nt. That's absurd. They made a big deal about a 25% rise in Hawaii hotel costs when overall prices have gone up as much or more over the same period. Heck most Fairfield Inns and Hampton Inns in decent locations on the mainland are over $200/nt now.

The fact is, if your target is wealthy travelers, most wealthy travelers won't be staying in Kihei or booking on Redweek anyway. Kihei, for example, has always been very middle-class-oriented accommodations. The wealthy who visit Maui are most likely staying in ocean front hotel accommodations in Wailea, Kapalua, and Kaanapali. Wealthy travelers want the amenities found at the Grand Wailea, the Four Seasons, the Hyatt Kaanapali, the Westin Kaanapali, and the Ritz Carlton Kapalua. They have been paying $800-$1000/nt or more for those types of accommodations for years.

 

[Ken555]

Another waste of a thread. Where do get my time back?

 

[davidvel]

The Hawaii travel fora are chock full of people who refuse to plan anything.

Their idea of visiting Hawaii is, "Take a week off from work next month. Hop on Expedia to book airfare, rental car and the most luxe resort on the island. And then visit Hawaii travel fora to snivel about costs."

Usually they have two of the three big-ticket items booked, no refunds possible, and they're looking for the $1 room at the Four Seasons.

I wonder if other destinations deal with this? For instance, "I'm flying to JFK next week. I need a two bedroom hotel suite in Midtown with a view. Preferably a view of the park. My budget is $100 per night. Also, how can I get from the airport to mid-town for $25? No public transportation!"

The article closes with: "By focusing too heavily on wealthier visitors, Hawaii may be sacrificing some of the values that make it unique, and alienating those who genuinely want to engage with its culture and environment in a respectful way."

Well THAT'S a laugh riot. Here's a translation: "I refuse to accept the basic economics of supply and demand. And I expect luxury products to be subsidized. For instance, those greedy winemakers at Moet and Chandon are getting $500 for a bottle of Dom P. Plenitude. How can normal people afford to drink a bottle of that every night?"

EDIT -- And the ones who blather on about "engaging with the culture and environment in a respectful way" are almost always the most difficult visitors. The kind who snap their fingers at rental counter clerks and the person stocking the shelves at KTA.

Nice story bru.

 

[magmue]

the ones who blather on about "engaging with the culture and environment in a respectful way" are almost always the most difficult visitors.

I hear what you are saying. I think clueless tone deaf tourists can be found across the economic spectrum. In my experience, the richer folk are frequently worse, expecting that their spending level entitles them to run rough shod over everyone else, cultah' and environment be damned.

But to be fair, the article's author grew up in Hawaii, and is part native Hawaiian. I'm willing to believe she loves Hawaii in a deeper way than most.

 

[zentraveler]

Another waste of a thread. Where do get my time back?

On the ignore option

 

[ScoopKona]

We spent over a month trying to get some family to decide if they were coming to Thanksgiving or not and they couldn't decide till about a week ago. Like, these aren't surprises - it's basically the same time every year.

The absolute last time I tried to include a family member in our travel plans was a week in Napa Valley. We already had a 2 bedroom condo. And we were renting a car anyway. "All you need to do is fly to SFO or preferably OAK."

The night before we checked in, she called. "I heard it's going to rain in Napa. So I cancelled."

And yup, it rained -- almost every night around 3am. The rest of the day was glorious. It's not like the tasting rooms are dreary places if it's raining. That was the last straw. We're simply done with people's dithering, waffling, ****ing and moaning.

I hear what you are saying. I think clueless tone deaf tourists can be found across the economic spectrum. In my experience, the richer folk are frequently worse, expecting that their spending level entitles them to run rough shod over everyone else, cultah' and environment be damned.

The "I want to visit Hawaii ethically" tourists are all talk and no action. Any they run the full economic spectrum from crunchy-granola backpackers to people who fly in on a private plane. Their idea of "ethically" is renting a house near Lahaina, thus adding to the housing squeeze. And they do all their shopping at mainland markets and eat at places which get 100% of their food from the mainland.

But they're mindful and ethical about it. They throw a lot of s and say aloha and mahalo 50 times a day. What they really want is a way to knock back any feelings of guilt.

 

[davidvel]

The absolute last time I tried to include a family member in our travel plans was a week in Napa Valley. We already had a 2 bedroom condo. And we were renting a car anyway. "All you need to do is fly to SFO or preferably OAK."

The night before we checked in, she called. "I heard it's going to rain in Napa. So I cancelled."

And yup, it rained -- almost every night around 3am. The rest of the day was glorious. It's not like the tasting rooms are dreary places if it's raining. That was the last straw. We're simply done with people's dithering, waffling, ****ing and moaning.



The "I want to visit Hawaii ethically" tourists are all talk and no action. Any they run the full economic spectrum from crunchy-granola backpackers to people who fly in on a private plane. Their idea of "ethically" is renting a house near Lahaina, thus adding to the housing squeeze. And they do all their shopping at mainland markets and eat at places which get 100% of their food from the mainland.

But they're mindful and ethical about it. They throw a lot of s and say aloha and mahalo 50 times a day. What they really want is a way to knock back any feelings of guilt.

As expected, few family and friends to spend time with. I wonder why (not). The life of an off gridder.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

With resale timeshares and hotel points as well as companion pass for free airfare Hawaii does not have to be expensive. We typically only eat out one meal a day and like to do Happy Hrs. Its basically rental cars and food and maintenance fees. Of course its all relative. We were just in Spain at Andaluza and were shocked at how inexpensive everything was. It made the US seem extremely expensive.

 

[jp10558]

With resale timeshares and hotel points as well as companion pass for free airfare Hawaii does not have to be expensive. We typically only eat out one meal a day and like to do Happy Hrs. Its basically rental cars and food and maintenance fees. Of course its all relative. We were just in Spain at Andaluza and were shocked at how inexpensive everything was. It made the US seem extremely expensive.

I remember in Nov 2023 being in the UK and thinking it was surprisingly cheap. I guess another reason to go to Europe again / next, I have been wanting to do Spain etc.

 

[SmithOp]

I remember in Nov 2023 being in the UK and thinking it was surprisingly cheap. I guess another reason to go to Europe again / next, I have been wanting to do Spain etc.

I got the same joy visiting Canada, using my credit card I would get texts after purchase and see my currency conversion "discount".

 

[easyrider]

Going to Hawaii , for us anyway, isn't that much of a cost difference than traveling to most places. We stay at timeshare condos that include free parking so the lodging cost is about the same as any of them. Car rental and air fare can be a bit more.

For us, our timeshares in Mexico are way more opulent than anywhere we have stayed in Hawaii. The costs of air fare and rental cars are lower. The flight is definitely shorter.

That being said, Mexico doesn't have that Waikiki vibe we love.

Bill