Staroptions, Flex Points, ?

[cngriffin]

We are looking at the Marriott Vacation Club, Hilton Grand Vacations Club, and Westin/Vistana. The Marriott and Hilton programs seem pretty straightforward but man I am confused by the Westin/Sheraton/Vistana system. I have learned about the mandatory resorts where points can be transferred but I still see StarOptions, Flex Points, Vistana Signature Experience Points, …

I apologize in advance - I have read the stickies, googled, and scanned this forum, but I am still am not sure what is what.

So I would be very appreciative if someone could explain the differences between these StarOptions, Flex Points, Vistana Signature Experience Points and related point systems and which ones perhaps I should focus on in the resale market.

Basically we would want to be able to use resale points to travel to the Westin and Sheraton properties and hopefully points that might be converted or exchanged for Marriott points when that times comes. I know the details of the merger are unknown and there are no guarantees in terms of exchange ratios etc, but im just trying to figure out which of these points I should be looking at.

Thank you!

 

[daviator]

There’s no such thing as VSE points.

Westin Flex and Sheraton Flex are points-based programs that bundle several Westin and Sheraton properties, respectively, and allow them to be booked as “home resorts” in the 12-8 month periods. I don’t recommend buying either so I won’t go into more detail.

StarOptions are basically what ALL developer-purchased or mandatory Vistana ownerships become at 8 months prior to check-in. So it doesn’t really matter what product you own, a deeded week or Flex or something else, at 8 months it becomes Star Options and you are able to book at any of the Vistana properties with the SOs. The only exception would be resale purchasers of voluntary resorts; those never become SOs unless the ownership is retro'd by making a new purchase from the developer.

So if you bought a week at a mandatory property (resale) – from 12 to 8 months you would have home resort access and could book the resort where you own. At 8 months, your ownership becomes SOs, and you can book at any of the Vistana resorts (and owners at those resorts can book at your resort.)

Hope this helps…

 

[jabberwocky]

I’m not familiar with Vistana Signature Experience points. You basically have StarOptions and one of the Flex option programs. There are also some HomeOptions which are applicable to only a single resort (ie Nanea).

I’m glad you’re doing your homework, many don’t do this and regret their purchase later.

I think the following thread will be helpful to figure out the relationship between StarOptions and FlexOptions.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/updated-flex-faq.309193/

 

[cngriffin]

Thank you both - that helps immensely!

 

[The Colorado Kid]

We love our Westin Flex membership - have been very pleased.

In our experience, Westin properties are superior to Sheratons so I recommend Westin Flex over Sheraton Flex.

Our Westin Flex developer purchase gives us excellent flexibility and results in many more trips than just weeks would because we are not forced into a week stay in each instance. It does have both Westin and Sheraton properties to choose from. To my understanding, Sheraton Flex does not have any Westins.

For instance we are traveling to Maui in June for a week with my outlaws and then also have reservations in July in Colorado at Westin Riverfront and same for two January weekends for skiing.

Hoping (maybe naive) that the final merger details don't require us to make any changes or mess with our current groove.

 

[DanCali]

I'm glad to see you are taking the advice I gave you in the Marriott thread seriously!

Just to be clear about 8 months and 12 months - those numbers relate to your desired checkin date regardless of the resort you are looking at.

For example - you might own a Westin Kierland deeded week and if you want to book March 11, 2023. You can do that staring March 11, 2022 as a home resort owner and only home resort owners can do that until July 11, 2022, when the 8-month window opens. For a home resort reservation, the checkin day has to be a Friday, Saturday or Sunday and it has to be a 7 night stay and exactly in the type of unit you own. Reservations booked within the 8 month window (July 12, 2022 and after) are booked with "Staroptions" even if you make that reservation at a resort where you own. Those bookings are considered exchanges and can be made by you, or other owners who can use Staroptions who might own at other Vistana resorts. Exchanges can have any checkin day, can be as short as a 1-night stay, and don't have to be in the same unit size like the one you own.

(I'll just add that the "Flex" products may have more flexibility during this home resort priority period - but the examples here are limited to deeded weeks, and specifically "mandatory" so you can use Staroptions)

Here are some concrete examples: I own at Harborside and Westin Kierland, but not Maui. If I look for a reservation for May 14, 2023 at Harborside (within 12 months but more than 8 months from today) this will show up as a "Home Resort" reservation. The checkin day is a Sunday, it's a 7-night stay, and the unit type is what I own.

A 5-night stay with the same checkin day might also be available in the same or a different unit type, but I can't book it before the 8-month window opens.

If I look for the same 7-night stay on Maui (May 14-21, 2023), this is what I see available:

My 148,100 Westin Kierland Staroptions, which I can use if I don't use my home resort, can get me a 2BR Oceanview on Maui, but I can't book it until September 14 and of course it may not be available by then.

And if I search for any resort, including where I own like WKV, but the checkin date is less than 8 months away (say January 15, 2023) then it shows it as a Staroptions reservation and I can grab points from any of my unused weeks in order to book that. Even though this might be the type of unit I own and it's a 7-night stay Sunday to Sunday, it's no longer "Home Resort" because it's within 8 months from checkin.

 

[VacationForever]

Resale Flex options do not become Star Options at 8 months, which means that you are restricted booking in the small handful of resorts within the Flex group. Resale Sheraton Flex can book only the group of resorts within Sheraton Flex. Same applies to Westin Flex and Aventuras Flex.

 

[TravelTime]

If you are buying resale, this may be an easier summary:

The Mandatory Resorts are:

• The Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas - Maui
• The Westin Ka’anapali Ocean Resort Villas North - Maui
• The Westin Kierland Villas - Scottsdale/Phoenix
• Harborside Resort at Atlantis (Phase 1 and 2) - Bahamas
• The Westin St. John Resort Villas (Hillside and Bay Vista) - St John, US Virgin Islands
• Sheraton Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West phases) - Orlando

Mandatory means at the 8 month mark, you can trade for any resort in the Vistana network using StarOptions. You can also use Interval International.

All the rest of the Vistana resorts are Voluntary, which means you can only use your home resort or trade in Interval International.

I think if you know the above, that should be enough to help you decide what to buy. Someone else sent you a link to more details. All the details get overwhelming to take in at once.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Thank you both - that helps immensely!

Confusing because StarOptions or FlexOptions are called StarOption Points or FlexOption Points (SOs or FOs are used for Timeshares) by VSE/VSN (Vistana) and now MVC (Marriott)

And people confuse them with BonVoy Points (BV points are used for Hotel Stays) - and used to be known as StarPoints until the takeover/merger (or whatever it was).


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[rcv82]

Basically we would want to be able to use resale points to travel to the Westin and Sheraton properties and hopefully points that might be converted or exchanged for Marriott points when that times comes. I know the details of the merger are unknown and there are no guarantees in terms of exchange ratios etc, but im just trying to figure out which of these points I should be looking at.

While not officially announced, from the best information available it seems that no resale, regardless of a mandatory or voluntary resort, will be able to trade into MVC DC points unless requalified (I.e., retro’ed) into VSN to become like a developer week. Once requalified, there is no difference between a mandatory and voluntary ownership until you sell it again.

 

[The Colorado Kid]

While not officially announced, from the best information available it seems that no resale, regardless of a mandatory or voluntary resort, will be able to trade into MVC DC points unless requalified (I.e., retro’ed) into VSN to become like a developer week. Once requalified, there is no difference between a mandatory and voluntary ownership until you sell it again.

What is the best information so far on the $ range of this requalification fee?

 

[byeloe]

What is the best information so far on the $ range of this requalification fee?

Up until the "hard launch" you can still requalify a VSN resale with the purchase of $10000 flex contract. Additional units can be requalified for $5000 each. This has been the case for the last couple of years. There is no concrete information yet on what will happen after the hard launch.

 

[vacationtime1]

It is important to remember that no one knows (or is telling) exactly how the merger will work; Marriott has not put it in writing.

So speculation about which categories of Vistana owners (developer purchasers, mandatory resort owners, everyone) will be invited into MVC and at what price(s) is just that: speculation.

 

[dioxide45]

It is important to remember that no one knows (or is telling) exactly how the merger will work; Marriott has not put it in writing.

So speculation about which categories of Vistana owners (developer purchasers, mandatory resort owners, everyone) will be invited into MVC and at what price(s) is just that: speculation.

I call it informed speculation. We had a contact early on through Denise. Of course, their information was from their interpretation of training material provided to them. The more sales people that we get information from, the more muddier the waters get because they all either have different interpretations or they make things up to make a sale.

 

[kozykritter]

I call it informed speculation. We had a contact early on through Denise. Of course, their information was from their interpretation of training material provided to them. The more sales people that we get information from, the more muddier the waters get because they all either have different interpretations or they make things up to make a sale.

I asked Denise if perhaps her contact would be willing to give us an update now that we are two months into the soft launch. She said unfortunately that was not an option due to some harsh reactions directed at this person by some TUG users...she wouldn't subject her contact to that again. See, this is why we can't have nice things

So I guess we will soldier on in our muddled mix of hope and fear until Marriott finally makes the sun shine on all of this!

 

[dioxide45]

Sadly, the soft launch was just a green light to the sales staff to come up with more tales and made up stories of why you need to buy in order to get something that doesn't yet exist. Hilton Grand Vacations is kind of doing the same thing with their Max program. Though to HGV credit, they at least updated their exchange procedures prior to their semi-rollout.

 

[vacationtime1]

WE have a couple of mantras here at TUG:

If the salesperson's lips are moving, he's probably lying.​

If it's not in the contract you sign, it doesn't count.​

ymmv, but I'm not willing to spend $10K-$20K to buy some Flex product based on FOMO. Which is what the sales staff is selling.

 

[DanCali]

I wonder is post-launch Vistana units will be "double-rotro'd"? This will affect mostly resale voluntary resorts.

What I mean is - presumably Vistana resale units will be offered to enroll into the DC as part of a purchase. Will those resale units also be enrolled in VSN as part of the same transaction so they can trade with Staroptions? That would give owners double the incentive to make the purchase since they get access to 2 exchanges in one transaction.

 

[dioxide45]

I wonder is post-launch Vistana units will be "double-rotro'd"? This will affect mostly resale voluntary resorts.

What I mean is - presumably Vistana resale units will be offered to enroll into the DC as part of a purchase. Will those resale units also be enrolled in VSN as part of the same transaction so they can trade with Staroptions? That would give owners double the incentive to make the purchase since they get access to 2 exchanges in one transaction.

I would expect this to be how it works. But who knows... I bet Marriott hasn't even thought this far ahead.

It is also possible that MVC would like to lock those out of VSN and make the only exchange option for those owners be the DC program. So only giving them the option to enroll in DC and not VSN is also possible.

 

[daviator]

I would expect this to be how it works. But who knows... I bet Marriott hasn't even thought this far ahead.

It is also possible that MVC would like to lock those out of VSN and make the only exchange option for those owners be the DC program. So only giving them the option to enroll in DC and not VSN is also possible.

If that was the case – and you could be right, MVC might see permanently locking voluntary resale owners out of VSN as a key step in bleeding inventory from that network, if indeed that is a goal of theirs – then ironically, Vistana sales is missing out on a pretty key selling argument to resale owners. “This is your last opportunity to retro into VSN” might be a strong motivator for some.

Some of the sales people have sort of tried a similar line, I’ve heard multiple times (from Vistana reps) that “Marriott doesn’t allow resale VOIs to be retro'd, and once the merger is complete, we won't either.” But that is an untrue statement and likely to continue to be untrue in the future.

 

[TravelTime]

I am assuming MVC will start giving MVC points and enrolled weeks owners the ability to book Vistana properties at 13 or 12 months. They have their own inventory so this is possible and would not affect Vistana resale owners to get their desired weeks at 12 months or maybe they will switch Vistana owners to 13 months to make it match their benefits chart. However this would definitely affect SO trading.

The other thing is you can requalify your resale week by buying a hybrid package where you buy a week somewhere and enroll your Vistana week. While I understand many people on this thread do not want to do that, it can bring down the cost per point to low to mid $4s or maybe $5-$6 if you are enrolling a low point week. In the Spain office, they have good deals for less than $10K and some are more but you get a decent amount of points. The nice thing is it does not increase MFs too much because you are already paying MFs for your Vistana week and Spain’s average MF is below the MF for DPs. If anyone wants my contact, I can let you know.

 

[dioxide45]

However this would definitely affect SO trading.

I am not sure it would impact SO trading since the inventory is still separate. They can't move inventory from weeks ownership or one of the Flex trusts unless an owner specifically indicates they want to elect DC points. So inventory could go down as VSN owners elect points, but it would take that week out of competing for SO inventory. What will impact SO availability will be how many owners elect DC points, especially if a certain resort or location (like Maui) seems to be considered more valuable in DC than it is in VSN.

 

[dsmith518]

We love our Westin Flex membership - have been very pleased.

In our experience, Westin properties are superior to Sheratons so I recommend Westin Flex over Sheraton Flex.

Our Westin Flex developer purchase gives us excellent flexibility and results in many more trips than just weeks would because we are not forced into a week stay in each instance. It does have both Westin and Sheraton properties to choose from. To my understanding, Sheraton Flex does not have any Westins.

For instance we are traveling to Maui in June for a week with my outlaws and then also have reservations in July in Colorado at Westin Riverfront and same for two January weekends for skiing.

Hoping (maybe naive) that the final merger details don't require us to make any changes or mess with our current groove.

Sorry to hikack the thread for a sec. Do you have any trouble booking days during the ski season? Are your ski choices usually available at the 12 month mark? Trying to decide the best way to get some ski time without the high resale prices of some of these fixed ski weeks at the resorts. Thank you.

 

[rcv82]

Sorry to hikack the thread for a sec. Do you have any trouble booking days during the ski season? Are your ski choices usually available at the 12 month mark? Trying to decide the best way to get some ski time without the high resale prices of some of these fixed ski weeks at the resorts. Thank you.

I have Westin Flex, and it is hit and miss 12 months out for Riverside (which only has 34 units), with the studio side having the best availability. While I prefer the Westin when I can get it, the Sheratons at both Avon and Steamboat are fairly easy to book, usually even with StarOptions. My SMV ownership provides a low cost and reliable way of skiing Beaver Creek when I want. It’s only a 5 minute walk from the Westin.


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[The Colorado Kid]

Sorry to hikack the thread for a sec. Do you have any trouble booking days during the ski season? Are your ski choices usually available at the 12 month mark? Trying to decide the best way to get some ski time without the high resale prices of some of these fixed ski weeks at the resorts. Thank you.

For the Westin Riverfront specifically. We normally use our 12-month reservation windows to book summer stays at Riverfront. I typically check winter reservations Jan-March also a year out and almost always find several available, Studios/1BR/2BR. To be successful for any Riverfront reservations you have to be online at midnight eastern time. We live in Colorado so that is 10PM so not too bad. I would not be loving life if had to be online any later.