Star points vs star options

[momofthreeplusone]

Hi all,
Am so grateful to have found this site. Almost got "hooked" by the developer for Westin Naanea resort last week while we visited Kauai, in fact signed up for the explorer package, though am now rethinking.
Am now considering buying into Starwood through resale instead of the developer, and canceling my explorer package. After researching, I found that all the benefits of buying resale are the same as from the developer with the exception of starpoints not being transferable to a new buyer. Staroptions are transferable, as I understand, and these are used for booking future vacations. Starpoints can be used for airline tickets, hotels within the network, etc, as I understand it all.
Has anyone regretted not having those starPoints? It seems to me that the cost of buying in the resale market vs. from the developer greatly outweighs what I would be losing by not having starPoints.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[dioxide45]

StarOptions are only transferable if you purchase at one of the five mandatory Vistana properties. StarOptions do not transfer on resale for most properties.

The ability to convert to Starpoints is always a debated topic. For most, the value isn't there to pay tens of thousands of dollars from the developer to get that benefit.

 

[Helios]

The value of the Starpoint is a very personal answer you can only answer. IMO, it depends on your lifestyle. I only see value as a backup plan at the end of the year when banking is not needed and there are no other reservations you need. In my case, I only get a positive value when I want to get premium travel out of my Starpoints.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Well - one thing is true... regardless of this age-old discussion - the SP conversion value and MF ratio has certainly gone in a negative direction over time, and seems to be the trend that is holding.

SP value decrease and/or
MF increase



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[momofthreeplusone]

Well - one thing is true... regardless of this age-old discussion - the SP conversion value and MF ratio has certainly gone in a negative direction over time, and seems to be the trend that is holding.

SP value decrease and/or
MF increase

Thanks David. Do you know where I can find information out about how maintenance fees have changed over time?


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[momofthreeplusone]

The value of the Starpoint is a very personal answer you can only answer. IMO, it depends on your lifestyle. I only see value as a backup plan at the end of the year when banking is not needed and there are no other reservations you need. In my case, I only get a positive value when I want to get premium travel out of my Starpoints.

Good point, thank you. Have you found starpoints easy to convert to airline tickets and such?

 

[momofthreeplusone]

StarOptions are only transferable if you purchase at one of the five mandatory Vistana properties. StarOptions do not transfer on resale for most properties.

The ability to convert to Starpoints is always a debated topic. For most, the value isn't there to pay tens of thousands of dollars from the developer to get that benefit.

I am beginning to think that way as well. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

 

[DeniseM]

To illustrate David's point: We bought at WKORV (original Maui resort) pre-construction, and our maintenace fee was around $1,100. We received 80,000 Starpoints for our 2 bdm. lock-off. Since then, our maintenance fee has doubled - but we still only get 80,000 Starpoints.

Not only that, but the number of Starpoints required for hotel stays, etc, has increased as well. So our 80,000 Starpoints are worth around 30% of what they were worth when we bought them. Because of this, we would never convert our Maui week to Starpoints.

A better way to get Starpoints is to get a Starwood AMEX. We put every cent we spend on it, and pay it off at the end of each month so we don't pay any interest, so the Starpoints are virtually free. When you transfer Starpoints to airlines in increments of 20,000 Starpoints, you get a 5,000 point bonus (25,000 Starpoints.)

It's easy to transfer Starpoints to airlines, but of course you want to make your airline reservations early, to have the best availability of award seats.

What resort are you considering buying on the resale market? Nanea and Princeville do not have Staroptions when purchased on the on the resale market. The best Hawaii resale value is the original WKORV, because it has Staroptions, and the maintenance fee is the lowest of the Hawaii resorts.

The least expensive re-sale deeds are the Island View deeds, but Island View = highway view, so if you are going to buy in Hawaii, I recommend buying Ocean View or Ocean Front.

The original phase (WKORV) also has the best ocean front views - the ocean ends of bldg. 2 and 3.

Bldg. 2, 3, 4 = WKORV
Bldg. 5, 6 7, 8 = WKORV-North

 

[momofthreeplusone]

Thanks Denise. I am definitely thinking of Ocean view or Ocean front-Ocean front if I can get it. I learned today that Nanea and Princeville were "voluntary" resorts, so am leaning towards WKORV. Thanks for the map! I thought that WKORV-North was further away. I very much appreciate your insight.

 

[NWTRVLRS]

We are at the WKORV right now, checking out tomorrow. We sat through the developer meeting last week and I immediately came back to the room and looked up Tugg info.. this site is THE best!

 

[Helios]

Good point, thank you. Have you found starpoints easy to convert to airline tickets and such?

Very easy, but it is highly dependent on the airline and route you want. I live near NYC, so that helps me a lot because of the large supply.

Converting Staroptions to Starpoints (for an eligible VOI can be done online) in the Vistana website. Transfer from Starpoints to miles/points can be done online at the SPG website. Make sure you transfer blocks of 20,000 to maximize return (you get 25,000 miles/points for most partners for some are 2:1 ratio - I believe United). Also, I would transfer 60,000 max per day because of max daily point transfers and maximizing the 25% bonus I mentioned.

As an example, you could transfer your SPG points to Lufthansa (or Aeroplan) and fly Lufthansa first for a good ROI. Booking this is doable 14 days before departure. If you like booking in advance, you can go for biz initially and then ask to upgrade to F once availability opens. This, of course, is just one example. There are many more you can find in the google machine.

 

[Helios]

but of course you want to make your airline reservations early, to have the best availability of award seats

This is not always correct, it depends on the cabin you want and the airline. In some cases, booking close to departure gives you better results, but you need to have the stomach for it and know how the airline releases seats.

 

[DeniseM]

Clarification- you cannot convert Staroptions to Starpoints - it's (full) weeks to Starpoints. Staroptions are not involved.

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[bobpark56]

We have both star points and Marriott Rewards points. Our experience is that our Marriott Rewards points have depreciated significantly faster than our SPG starpoints.

 

[Helios]

We have both star points and Marriott Rewards points. Our experience is that our Marriott Rewards points have depreciated significantly faster than our SPG starpoints.

+1, I value SPG points more.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

All of our timeshares are resale but we have point collections with all the major hotel chains. My husband is an avid student of all the point blogs.
Million Mile Secrets is the best one to start with to learn basics. We have not needed hotel points from our timeshares. We also rarely pay to fly.
I would rarely if ever use my timeshare for points even if I had them.

 

[MamaT]

Regarding buying at WKORV, do I understand that if you buy there, you can only vacation there? There are no Options you can use to book at another SPG resort? When I was looking to buy at Harborside I spoke to THE TIMESHARE KING (lol) on the phone, who was actually very helpful. He told me I didn't want to buy there, the maintenance fees were too high - I'm assuming they are high in Hawaii too? He said what I wanted to do was buy at another resort that had enough points, but at a lower annual fee, to be able to trade into Harborside. So that's what we did, ended up with two 2BR lockoffs at Sheraton Vistana Villages in Orlando with 81,000 pts each. We've owned them for about 9 years, and have used the points to book at Harborside 3x, Kauai and St John - excellent vacations all but Kauai was my favorite! Also booked family in Cancun for Thanksgiving one year, and in other years have booked various locations and rented them out. So you might consider that,

( part of this post has been deleted because advertising is not allowed in the discussion forums. Ads can be placed in the TUG Marketplace.)

 

[r1lee]

Why would you cancel your Explorer package? It's a pretty good deal.

 

[Dawnwrey]

WKORV and WKORVN are both mandatory resorts , and therefore do come with star options. Good for you for buying resale at SVV and making the most of your ownership! However, you are in violation of policy if you are booking vacations at properties where you do not own and renting them out. You may risk having your renters turned away, and certainly the disapproval of owners at those resorts who play by the rules. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but as an owner at WKORVN and WSJ, and paying those high MFs, I don't feel happy about others making rent money off of these properties where they do not own.

 

[MamaT]

WKORV and WKORVN are both mandatory resorts , and therefore do come with star options. Good for you for buying resale at SVV and making the most of your ownership! However, you are in violation of policy if you are booking vacations at properties where you do not own and renting them out. You may risk having your renters turned away, and certainly the disapproval of owners at those resorts who play by the rules. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but as an owner at WKORVN and WSJ, and paying those high MFs, I don't feel happy about others making rent money off of these properties where they do not own.

I see your point. I honestly had no idea this wasn't allowed, in fact I thought it specifically WAS allowed. But in checking the rules, renting to a 3rd party is only allowed at your home resort, a nuance I missed (probably read it when I first bought but forgotten by the time I actually did a 3rd party rental years later). "VistanaTM Signature Experiences does not offer an Owner rental program at any of its villa resorts. However, as an Owner, you may reserve a Vacation Period at your Home Resort and arrange a private third-party rental."

 

[DeniseM]

Regarding buying at WKORV, do I understand that if you buy there, you can only vacation there? There are no Options you can use to book at another SPG resort?

Maui now has 3 resorts: Original/South, North, and Nanea.

If you buy resale at the North or South resorts, you get Staroptions which you can use at any resort.

If you buy resale at Nanea, you do not get Staroptions, and you can only make reservations at Nanea.

Only these 5 resorts are mandatory, which means that resales DO have Staroptions:

* Harborside at Atlantis
* Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West phases only)
* Westin St. John (Virgin Grand - Hillside only)
* Westin Ka'anapali & Westin Ka'anapali-North
* Westin Kierland Villas

 

[DavidnRobin]

Why would you cancel your Explorer package? It's a pretty good deal.

Is it? Only if you intend to buy from VSE - which is questionable under most circumstances. IMO


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[DavidnRobin]

I see your point. I honestly had no idea this wasn't allowed, in fact I thought it specifically WAS allowed. But in checking the rules, renting to a 3rd party is only allowed at your home resort, a nuance I missed (probably read it when I first bought but forgotten by the time I actually did a 3rd party rental years later). "VistanaTM Signature Experiences does not offer an Owner rental program at any of its villa resorts. However, as an Owner, you may reserve a Vacation Period at your Home Resort and arrange a private third-party rental."

It now states this on the Reservation Confirmations from VSE/VSN.


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[momofthreeplusone]

Is it? Only if you intend to buy from VSE - which is questionable under most circumstances. IMO


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I agree, the explorer package isn't that great of a deal unless you end up buying from the developer. Then you are essentially getting two weeks for the price of the package (the purchased week with the package and the starpoints for listening to the presentation). Yes, that $2794 would go towards downpayment if we did buy from the developer; but it still seems to me that saving tons of money buying resale is a way better deal than the explorer week for $2794 (in a studio) and 50,000 starpoints if we listen to the sales pitch. We sent our cancellation notice yesterday. I am checking into a rental for our vacation next year and planning on meeting a resale broker in Lahaina during that trip to discuss buying a 2 BD unit with 148,100 star options resale.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I agree, the explorer package isn't that great of a deal unless you end up buying from the developer. Then you are essentially getting two weeks for the price of the package (the purchased week with the package and the starpoints for listening to the presentation). Yes, that $2794 would go towards downpayment if we did buy from the developer; but it still seems to me that saving tons of money buying resale is a way better deal than the explorer week for $2794 (in a studio) and 50,000 starpoints if we listen to the sales pitch. We sent our cancellation notice yesterday. I am checking into a rental for our vacation next year and planning on meeting a resale broker in Lahaina during that trip to discuss buying a 2 BD unit with 148,100 star options resale.

and... if you are going to buy from VSE, then you should buy resale first to requalify into VSN (maximizing SO value).


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