Speculating... I think I know where all the missing RCI inventory is.

[skimble]

When we trade with RCI Weeks or Points, we're fishing for leftovers.
Hilton, for example, has a new development in Carlsbad-- Grand Pacific Mar Brisa, yet even with my tiger GPR trader, I see no weeks in the system.
In the past, with new development, there's a glut of weeks flooding RCI. But with Hilton, it's traded for with universal Hilton Point. Hilton has opened this resort to all its Hilton owners, and they get first pick. Once the Hilton system has picked over everything, the leftovers end up in the RCI system for their Weeks and Points traders.
The same thing is likely occuring with Wyndham, Worldmark and all the other Points systems. They're getting first peek at the prime weeks within their own system.... AND, I would venture the prime weeks within RCI (as determined by comment cards.)
This would bolster the new developer's credibility and help maintain new sales. RCI Points still maintain strength in their last minute trades and their Points only inventory.

We've been wondering where the inventory has gone. It's speculation.
What do you think?

 

[BocaBum99]

Developer inventory has always been the key to ensure that exchange companies maintain a positive exchange credit balance with its depositers. I am sure it is still being used for that purpose. However instead of it all being put into the exchange pool, a lot of it is simply rented for profit by RCI.

Your other points are exactly right. The resort developers are trying to keep the best weeks for its owners. RCI should be for leftovers only.

 

[Carolinian]

While it is likely that what you are talking about is happening to some degree, it does not explain the sold out resorts, which are often the most desirable, which are no longer availible like they were. The prime inventory there is simply being dumped into the RCI rental system. A number of people have caught their very own weeks at such resorts being diverted to rental.

No this excuse does not flush for what RCI is doing.

It also does not explain the fact that when RCI changed its system last time about 20K weeks that had been availible before the change simply disappeared after the change. RCI put them somewhere. You can be sure that they did not just lose them.

 

[bnoble]

The same thing is likely occuring with Wyndham, Worldmark and all the other Points systems.

Wyndham very explicitly deposits "leftovers"---they deposit at about the eight month mark, two months after things have been available for free-for-all internal bookings. Deposits tend to focus on older, larger, or otherwise less-in-demand resorts, and tend to be more shoulder time and less prime holiday weeks.

 

[dougp26364]

Each of the resort systems with internal exchange rights for their owners have a contract with RCI or Interval which will guarentee a certain amount of quality weeks are to be deposited for exchange. It's part of how the value of those points are determined for exchanges with RCI. Without some sort of contract you would be correct in that the exchange companies would only get the trash weeks. But then again, those systems trade power would be greatly diminished within the RCI or Interval exchange system.

 

[timeos2]

Things have changed. Many things have changed. Don't base choices on old processes

The days of developers simply handing over large blocks of time to RCI/II to generate new leads are long gone. Now the majority of unsold time gos to rental by the Developer (they get the money vs RCI/II pocketing it) and a much more controlled flow of largely mid to poor time trickles into those systems. Plus very little new construction is underway so the new inventory being created is also far less than the past. Put is all together, along with the heavy rental focus of theose two "exchange" companies, and developer inventory is not the big source it was a decade ago.

 

[bnoble]

Without some sort of contract you would be correct in that the exchange companies would only get the trash weeks. But then again, those systems trade power would be greatly diminished within the RCI or Interval exchange system.

Exactly so---and that's the position Wyndham has taken. To be charitable, Wyndham points are mediocre traders at best in RCI, but this is because Wyndham has explicitly decided to focus on owners first. Wyndahm "generic" deposits simply cannot see large swaths of prime RCI Weeks inventory, no matter how many points you choose to deposit.

My primary use for Wyndham points in RCI is cheap access to over-deposited inventory with small-point deposits, or taking advantage of the Wyndham-internal preference to get an effective discount exchanging back into Wyndahm---and, even that is not as easy to do as it was prior to 5/30's revaluation. If you want a prime RCI week, you need something other than Wyndham points to get it, for the most part.

At the end of the day, I'm okay with this. I'm happy to be able to have the better inventory available as an owner in exchange for reduced trade power in RCI. I use other assets to exchange for prime RCI time, and use Wyndham points mostly for Wyndham-internal bookings.

 

["Roger"]

IMHO

The OP plus Timeos2 posts together are pretty much on target. About twelve years ago, I posted a message that I was concerned about the Balkanization of timesharing. At the time, everyone was moaning and groaning that RCI was on the verge of having a complete monopoly on timesharing. (II was pretty shakey at the time.) My worry was the opposite. I was concerned about the ever increasing number of "mini-systems" (that was actually the first time the word was used) and the fact that many timeshare trades would be internal to these systems and this would severely limit access to large numbers of resorts.

Soon after, RCI, in a defensive move, created its own mini-system for independents (aka RCI Points - how often have you seen complaints from Weeks owners that they do not have access to the inventory within Points - so too for inventory within HGVC, etc. when owners trade internally).

Timeos2 has added another factor limiting exchanges. When I first started exchanging, the common way that developers marketed their units was by offering three and four day promotions. (Spend four days at the Maui WowWow Resort for only $295" etc.) Now the exchange companies both allow the developer to reach new clients via rentals AND make money (instead of what were practically giveaways) to boot. Why would a developer offer those old time low cost promotions when they can make more money renting their units via the exchange companies. (Part of what made this possible is the rise of the internet. Yes, it has affected timesharing.)

Believe it or not, I actually got a good piece of advice when I bought my timeshare from the salesperson. I was worried about the longterm commitment to timesharing given that industry conditions might change. She told me that if I could not justify completely recouping my investment within ten years, I should not buy. She admitted that in the longer term, who knows what to expect.

 

[dougp26364]

I would agree that the individual systems contribute to the problem but, like I've said, these systems contract with the exchange companies to provide a certain number of weeks of varying quality each year. They include high demand weeks as well as low demand weeks. Depending on what they contract to give the exchange company will determine the value of the points.

It's already been mentioned that Wyndham has concentrated it's efforts to keep owners within the Wyndham system, not give a good number of quality weeks to RCI and suffers from poor trade value. Conversly it appears that DRI still gives Interval International some quality weeks and thus we can obtain quality exchanges for those points with Interval. I see a lot of very good weeks in high and peak demand times with our DRI points. They exchange as well as our Marriott weeks within the Interval system.

So yes, the "mini systems" do have the ability to impact the major exchange companies inventory but, the check and balance is the contracts those systems have to provide weeks to those exchange companies. Provide only the dog weeks as Wyndham appears to do and you get points that are dogs within the exchange system. Provide quality weeks as DRI appears to do and you get great availability for exchange using those points.

It's all in how the systems contract with the exchange company. It's still a like for like exchange world.

Now I do believe there has been a shift in how developer inventory is handled. As mentioned, right now there's not as much of it. I also believe the developers are holding their inventory for marketing and rental purposes rather than "giving" it away for exchanges. I can still find a lot of those $295 for a couple of nights at the Maui Wowwow resort. In fact I recieve mail, e-mail and phone call offers frequently to attend sales presentations on the cheap or for free. They're still out there.

What might not be out there is the developer inventory given to the exchange company to get fresh meat into the resorts. I can't think of a developer who hasn't announced delays in building new projects or stopped all new builds or expansions. HGVC and Marriott both put their Las Vegas projects on indefinate hold this past year. None of the timeshare companies we own with are putting up new buildings right now. If there's less or no inventory to give, then there's that much less for exchange.

One other thought is that marketing has shifted. Developers use to rely on currrent owners and exchangers to fill their sales rooms. Current owners/exchangers had already been sold on the idea of timeshare. All they had to do was sell their product. But maybe we've done to good of a job educating through forums and media outlets about buying resale rather than retail. Maybe the closing percentages have changed where selling to current educated owners isn't as profitable as those renting a cheap week through a magazine add. It could be that it's easier to go after the crowd looking to save money by agreeing to a timeshare tour than it is to sell to someone who already owns timeshare. Thus the developer inventory is going into marketing rather than the exchange pool and hoping those exchangers not only take the tour but, don't realize how to buy on the resale market.

 

[regatta333]

Exactly so---and that's the position Wyndham has taken. To be charitable, Wyndham points are mediocre traders at best in RCI, but this is because Wyndham has explicitly decided to focus on owners first. Wyndahm "generic" deposits simply cannot see large swaths of prime RCI Weeks inventory, no matter how many points you choose to deposit.

I think a big part of the reason for the dramatic drop in trading power is the degree to which Wyndham expanded the PIC program. They have nothing to do with that inventory EXCEPT to deposit it in RCI.

I think that's also the reason we can't deposit weeks from our home resort directly to RCI and are stuck with "generic" non-searchable deposits. Wyndham can't very well assign real searchable deposits to all the members who want them, because they would not have enough of them. And we are now penalized by having to pay higher exchange fees to use these deposits. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the weeks the Wyndham deposits are Wyndham vs PIC. I suspect the Wyndham % has decreased significantly and that was the reason Wyndham yanked our ability to ARP deposits to RCI.

Now, when Wyndham does assign searchable weeks, they are largely last-minute cancellations that have very little trading power. Thankfully, I am down to my last deposit with RCI. Once that is gone, I am done with depositing any weeks, unless I can get what I want immediately through a search-first, retaining the ability to pull my deposit back.

 

[skimble]

IMHO

The OP plus Timeos2 posts together are pretty much on target. About twelve years ago, I posted a message that I was concerned about the Balkanization of timesharing. At the time, everyone was moaning and groaning that RCI was on the verge of having a complete monopoly on timesharing. (II was pretty shakey at the time.) My worry was the opposite. I was concerned about the ever increasing number of "mini-systems" (that was actually the first time the word was used) and the fact that many timeshare trades would be internal to these systems and this would severely limit access to large numbers of resorts.

Soon after, RCI, in a defensive move, created its own mini-system for independents (aka RCI Points - how often have you seen complaints from Weeks owners that they do not have access to the inventory within Points - so too for inventory within HGVC, etc. when owners trade internally).

.

The thing I don't understand is where all the prime inventory outside the mini-system goes.
Take Arroyo Robles for example. It's probably the nicest (older) resort in Sedona. I searched 2 years out with my tiger, and I managed to see one week show up-- and it started 2 days out. It's a floating weeks resort, and I know they've had many weeks to deposit within RCI Weeks each year.
About 1-2 years ago, AR went (fell) to RCI Points. (I just checked Points, and.... there's a lot of inventory. And, the Point cost is outrageous! (86,000 for an October week.)
OK... I guess I'm answering my own question here... RCI has seized all Weeks deposits for their Points system. Do they makes those weeks available to the mini-systems too?

So... the developers are renting, RCI is renting, mini-systems are feasting first, and RCI Points is seizing Weeks deposits when they branch across both systems.

 

[bnoble]

Perhaps the problem is that your tiger was declawed on 5/30's revaluation. This is with a week that post 5/30 is still a very good but not-quite-tiger deposit:

Arroyo Roble Resort (#5172) 89 available units
Sedona
AZ, 86339
USA

map resort
Available Unit Size
2 BR (6 max)
Check-In Date Range
26-Aug-2010 -
01-Dec-2011

 

[Carolinian]

What all of this ignores is that if you look at areas either that do not have mini-system resorts or have little of it, like the OBX or many places in Europe, the exact same dissappearance of inventory has happened. Thereforefore, this excuse does not explain it.

IMHO

The OP plus Timeos2 posts together are pretty much on target. About twelve years ago, I posted a message that I was concerned about the Balkanization of timesharing. At the time, everyone was moaning and groaning that RCI was on the verge of having a complete monopoly on timesharing. (II was pretty shakey at the time.) My worry was the opposite. I was concerned about the ever increasing number of "mini-systems" (that was actually the first time the word was used) and the fact that many timeshare trades would be internal to these systems and this would severely limit access to large numbers of resorts.

Soon after, RCI, in a defensive move, created its own mini-system for independents (aka RCI Points - how often have you seen complaints from Weeks owners that they do not have access to the inventory within Points - so too for inventory within HGVC, etc. when owners trade internally).

Timeos2 has added another factor limiting exchanges. When I first started exchanging, the common way that developers marketed their units was by offering three and four day promotions. (Spend four days at the Maui WowWow Resort for only $295" etc.) Now the exchange companies both allow the developer to reach new clients via rentals AND make money (instead of what were practically giveaways) to boot. Why would a developer offer those old time low cost promotions when they can make more money renting their units via the exchange companies. (Part of what made this possible is the rise of the internet. Yes, it has affected timesharing.)

Believe it or not, I actually got a good piece of advice when I bought my timeshare from the salesperson. I was worried about the longterm commitment to timesharing given that industry conditions might change. She told me that if I could not justify completely recouping my investment within ten years, I should not buy. She admitted that in the longer term, who knows what to expect.

 

[timeos2]

Be clear how it all works

OK... I guess I'm answering my own question here... RCI has seized all Weeks deposits for their Points system. Do they makes those weeks available to the mini-systems too?

So... the developers are renting, RCI is renting, mini-systems are feasting first, and RCI Points is seizing Weeks deposits when they branch across both systems.

While it is possible that many of the weeks have gone to RCI Points it is important to understand how that would happen. RCI can't "seize" the weeks and convert them to points. Owners have to choose to join the Points system. But if they do, unlike weeks, for at least three years those weeks are automatically deposited with RCI Points. It's part of the deal.

What we're really seeing is a very unfortunate fragmentation of inventory from what once was virtually a single repository to many, small pockets of resorts that are unavailable unless you belong to the often costly system it resides in. If your goal from timeshare ownership is to travel widely using different resorts/locations this really hurts. In fact it nearly ends the ability to freely obtain resorts via trade and replaces it with a very limited selection from within your group and external exchange or really needing to rent rather than exchange to get the widest choices. It is getting worse as more owners opt for systems outside of the big guys and as the mini-systems lock up control of inventory that never gets to be deposited.

My advice now is to buy a week you wish to use, don't rely on trades especially for weeks based ownerships. Or buy into as large a points based system as you can find that has resorts in areas you are likely to want to visit to maximize internal trades and only use the occasional third party outside exchange to meet your needs. Still a "use" based ownership. If your primary use is a different resort each and every year then it is tough to say any exchange or points system would fit now. In that case you are most likely much better off simply planning to rent what you need as that will be the biggest selection and lowest cost option.

 

[bnoble]

My take is that there isn't any one answer. We all want "something to blame", but there are several different factors all going on at the same time. Mini-systems are keeping prime inventory internally. Exchange companies are renting more weeks. Balkanization separates inventory pools. Owners are finding it more valuable to use Internet-based rental outlets to rent out their time and use the proceeds to rent what they wish. And so on.

The important thing to notice is that none of these things are going to go back to "the way things were." So, one must adapt.

 

[SilverSandsOwner]

We are all looking for answers but the main reason is they changed the way trading power is assigned. Take 2 exact weeks, one prior to 5/30 and the newly deposit one and than do a search for the same area and same month. You will see a signaficant drop in the number of units available. In your search you must go out more than 2 months so you don't get the 45 day window units and the month in question must be available to both weeks.

At this point I am revolting and I did not deposit my additional weeks (2) and I am looking for alternatives to RCI. I have deposited one week that I can't get back and I use it for my comparisons between the 2 weeks in searching.

Currently, I am about 40% of what I use to get.

 

[skimble]

Perhaps the problem is that your tiger was declawed on 5/30's revaluation. This is with a week that post 5/30 is still a very good but not-quite-tiger deposit:

Arroyo Roble Resort (#5172) 89 available units
Sedona
AZ, 86339
USA

map resort
Available Unit Size
2 BR (6 max)
Check-In Date Range
26-Aug-2010 -
01-Dec-2011

I wonder if the "declawing of my tiger" might be in the rooms. I'm trading a 1 bedroom-- something that pre 5/30 pulled anything. Maybe I'll have better luck with trading 2 bd for 2 bd... something I've always thought RCI should adhere to.

 

[skimble]

What all of this ignores is that if you look at areas either that do not have mini-system resorts or have little of it, like the OBX or many places in Europe, the exact same dissappearance of inventory has happened. Thereforefore, this excuse does not explain it.

Have we done a cross-comparison to see if they're finally filtering for equal size units. In the past, we've been able to exchange studios for 3 bedroom units... could they have changed the system to reflect equal trades? I do not have a 2 bd deposit to check with at this time.

 

[skimble]

While it is possible that many of the weeks have gone to RCI Points it is important to understand how that would happen. RCI can't "seize" the weeks and convert them to points. Owners have to choose to join the Points system. But if they do, unlike weeks, for at least three years those weeks are automatically deposited with RCI Points. It's part of the deal.

What we're really seeing is a very unfortunate fragmentation of inventory from what once was virtually a single repository to many, small pockets of resorts that are unavailable unless you belong to the often costly system it resides in. If your goal from timeshare ownership is to travel widely using different resorts/locations this really hurts. In fact it nearly ends the ability to freely obtain resorts via trade and replaces it with a very limited selection from within your group and external exchange or really needing to rent rather than exchange to get the widest choices. It is getting worse as more owners opt for systems outside of the big guys and as the mini-systems lock up control of inventory that never gets to be deposited.

My advice now is to buy a week you wish to use, don't rely on trades especially for weeks based ownerships. Or buy into as large a points based system as you can find that has resorts in areas you are likely to want to visit to maximize internal trades and only use the occasional third party outside exchange to meet your needs. Still a "use" based ownership. If your primary use is a different resort each and every year then it is tough to say any exchange or points system would fit now. In that case you are most likely much better off simply planning to rent what you need as that will be the biggest selection and lowest cost option.

I agree with what you're saying.... except the part about RCI seizing inventory. I don't have hard facts to prove this stuff... only people with access to RCI's internal workings would.
I own at Seapointe in Carlsbad and at the San Clemente Inn. RCI offers a pitance in points for SCI units. It's hardly worth buying into Points. Very few weeks were available in the system using internal trade status-- a VRI week and an SCI exchange. With Carlsbad Seapoint, it's a similar story. I have a GPR week to trade with (internal trade status) yet there are Very few weeks available on the Weeks side. Yet, the Points side is well stocked.

How do the resort convert to Points and stock RCI with an abundance of weeks? Anecdotally, it would appear they are taking from Weeks. Under their own formulary, they may be replacing them with "equal status" weeks. But they're doing something to fill those coffers.

 

[skimble]

The important thing to notice is that none of these things are going to go back to "the way things were." So, one must adapt.

Understanding the big picture is the first step in finding a way to adapt to the future of timesharing.
It would appear to me, possibly, the best course of action may be to get a week in one of the minis, and see about converting my existing weeks for Points in their system. But, can I do that without purchasing from the developer?

 

[melschey]

Understanding the big picture is the first step in finding a way to adapt to the future of timesharing.
It would appear to me, possibly, the best course of action may be to get a week in one of the minis, and see about converting my existing weeks for Points in their system. But, can I do that without purchasing from the developer?

WorldMark is easy to get resale and despite what the sales weasels say if you learn how to use it you don't need travelshare, travelshare is really just a sales gimmick.
By the way WN still trades great with II. I don't deposit anything with RCI anymore I only use them for last call vacations and when my membership is up it is not in my plans to renew.

 

[rickandcindy23]

We are all looking for answers but the main reason is they changed the way trading power is assigned. Take 2 exact weeks, one prior to 5/30 and the newly deposit one and than do a search for the same area and same month. You will see a signaficant drop in the number of units available. In your search you must go out more than 2 months so you don't get the 45 day window units and the month in question must be available to both weeks.

At this point I am revolting and I did not deposit my additional weeks (2) and I am looking for alternatives to RCI. I have deposited one week that I can't get back and I use it for my comparisons between the 2 weeks in searching.

Currently, I am about 40% of what I use to get.

Good for you. I am right there with you. 5/30/2009 was Black Saturday around here. We lost trading power that we enjoyed for many years, and all in one weekend.

I have one week left in RCI Weeks, then it's bye-bye to Weeks. I still like points, but if they change that, I will be the first one to dump my points on eBay for $1. I have no loyalty to RCI whatsoever, even though we have been members since 1984. RCI basically told me They couldn't care less that we were upset about the trading power dropping on all of our weeks. I couldn't care less if they ever get another week at any of our resorts.

I made sure that owners at Twin Rivers and Val Chatelle in Colorado, since I am on the HOA boards of both, got a list of alternative exchange companies and the encouragement from the board to use any and all of them, rather than RCI.

Threads like this one are helping Google searches find out about RCI, and that's another positive thing that comes from posting the same thing over and over. My own little campaign.

Try www.tpmaui.com
www.htse.net 9999 username and htse password for non-members
www.tradingplaces.com
www.platinuminterchange.com
www.daelive.com
www.redweek.com Mandatory $15 fee, but they have a decent exchange system

 

[Mel]

Perhaps the problem is that your tiger was declawed on 5/30's revaluation. This is with a week that post 5/30 is still a very good but not-quite-tiger deposit:

Arroyo Roble Resort (#5172) 89 available units
Sedona
AZ, 86339
USA

map resort
Available Unit Size
2 BR (6 max)
Check-In Date Range
26-Aug-2010 -
01-Dec-2011

I have to agree - you were devalued! My 1BR Panama City beach unit pulls up 89 units, all 2BR over the course of the next 2 years... a few in late 2010, 8 or 9 every month from Jan to Sept 2011, and a few after that.

 

[timeos2]

RCI and the resort don't have control - owners do

I agree with what you're saying.... except the part about RCI seizing inventory. I don't have hard facts to prove this stuff... only people with access to RCI's internal workings would.
I own at Seapointe in Carlsbad and at the San Clemente Inn. RCI offers a pitance in points for SCI units. It's hardly worth buying into Points. Very few weeks were available in the system using internal trade status-- a VRI week and an SCI exchange. With Carlsbad Seapoint, it's a similar story. I have a GPR week to trade with (internal trade status) yet there are Very few weeks available on the Weeks side. Yet, the Points side is well stocked.

How do the resort convert to Points and stock RCI with an abundance of weeks? Anecdotally, it would appear they are taking from Weeks. Under their own formulary, they may be replacing them with "equal status" weeks. But they're doing something to fill those coffers.

I assume the weeks are sold thus control is with the owners not the resort. If they are not sold then the developer controls them and can do what they please but few, if any, simply give thenm away to RCI Weeks OR Points anymore as they too want the income. Your idea just doesn't fit the facts of ownership any resort would have.

 

[Carolinian]

Have we done a cross-comparison to see if they're finally filtering for equal size units. In the past, we've been able to exchange studios for 3 bedroom units... could they have changed the system to reflect equal trades? I do not have a 2 bd deposit to check with at this time.

But a two bedroom for a two bedroom is often not an equal trade. To assess whether a trade is equal one has to look at the totality of factors, not use tunnel vision on one factor alone. Between a 3BR Orlando pink week and a prime red studio at London's Allen House, it is Allen House that gets very much the short end of the stick.

If RCI is doing this on a factor by factor basis, instead of on the totality of factors, then it is to create arbitrary and nonsensical procedures to milk the system for more rental opportunities for themselves.