Silverleaf to Holiday Inn Vacation Club (HIVC) - bonus time, endless escapes concerns

[jkfpem5]

We have been Silverleaf Owners for the past 14 or so years. Between parents and myself we own 7 weeks. Fortunately we bought them all second hand and paid nothing, actually have prime weeks including weeks 25, 26, 46, 51. 6 of the 7 are red weeks and 5 of the 6 red weeks have endless escapes.

We stayed the weekend of Oct 15th, 2016 at Seaside in Galveston and got our first pitch to convert to points. We agreed after hearing the spill. In the end we would have to purchase an Orange Lake Resort week in Orlando Florida for $25k but this would put us with over 1 million points a year at around $7k in annual dues. We would be at the top tier of HIVC - Elite. These include perks like 25% off all resv (50k points for week, subtract 12500 so only 37500 for the week). Unlimited upgrades (if book a 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom is available we get the 3 bedroom), can book resv 9 months ahead of date at non-home resorts. We also got the whole conversation to RCI and IHG spill. Thought maybe we could use points for cruises/hotels as that has been our primary vacationing lately (still unsure if can use enough to matter - no one could answer).

HOWEVER - it all went south, mind you 10 hours after we arrived and were into this, when we got to the new Bonus Time disclosure docs. The language included required you to basically own the week prior to January 9, 2002 to retain Endless Escapes, otherwise it was just regular bonus time. I told him we had bought off second hand market and didn't think that would allow me to keep my EE on all accounts except for maybe one. The sales rep said that didn't matter it was when the week was originally sold. I told him no way - EE is the main reason why I have the accounts and unless I was provided an addendum that classified me as "grandfathered" with EE on all my accounts that it was on I wasn't signing. You would have thought I asked for his kid's head on a platter. The guy went berserk, wouldn't get a manger, wouldn't do anything. Said we were done - and he was right. No way in heck I was going to risk loosing the EE.

So here are my questions for anyone who does have HIVC or has been through a conversion:
1) I was basically offered to have to pay .18 for each point - it that high or about right?
2) is anyone an elite (1 million + ) points a year and have you really been able to use the perks?
3) anyone familiar with any way I can convert the weeks to points without buying?
4) I have heard if you do convert HIVC views ALL your Silverleaf accounts as one account with HICV therefore you can only book a single bonus time reservation (no multiple BT at the same time on the same weekend)
5) has anyone lost Endless escapes due to the language and only has regular Bonus Time?
6) has anyone been able to get a letter/addendum from a manager/corporate authorizing being defined as "grandfathered" (so EE is tied to all accounts)
7) when you transfer from HICV to IHG there is a 5:4 ratio so you lose points - is this a big deal in the grand scheme of things?
8) do you really get considerably more access to other units when exchanging with RCI?
9) for those who own HICV - have you been happy with them?
10) any other great thoughts of suggestions would of course be appreciated.

They were going to make me sign a conversation document for each of the accounts and an updated bonus time disclosure statement for each account. In the end I expect they will use the new BT docs to do away with BT all together.

Given the points I will have and the perks thought it might be worth it. We do use our BT all the time and take friends with us, this is because we are central to several resorts here in Texas including Piney Shore, Hill Country, Galveston, and the Villages. They are all within 3 hours.

Curious if any experts around here who care to share some wisdom.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions or thoughts.

John

 

[Tank]

If you bought all these aftermarket , and for $25,000 you are able to be Elite status bringing them all on board is a pretty sweat deal I think.
Yes, all the perks work if you are a planner.
You can not convert them at this time without buying.
I have been very happy as a HICV point owner.
The 5:4 ratio is ok, once you put them in IHG they never expire unless your account becomes dormant for a year.
RCI gives you a whole lot of other options for sure

Silverleaf owners don't want to loose that EE and BT but your the first one I heard that can actually make out with HICV and be at the top in a system that is on the march as they grow.

 

[jkfpem5]

I appreciate the reply Tank. One attractive option they mentioned was the ability to call for example about a 3 bedroom unit which for example would run lets say 100k points. If available I could theoretically instead select a 2 bedroom for 80k and get 25% off so it ends up being 60k for a 3 bedroom. I also recall getting a free week every year and they acted like there were no restrictions.

My loss of the EE and ability to book multiple rooms is a big deal. We have on several occasions booked up to 5 units at one time to facilitate rooms for church functions and weekend retreats. I would say at a minimum we stay at least 50 days a year. That is significant but I am wondering just how much BT there is really going to be.

Any idea what is the cheapest you can get out spending? We were looking at me having 860k points with what my name is already on and my father has one other account that is worth 75k, so if I was added to it that would put us at 935k. I would only need 65k points. i wasn't sure if I could away with only spending $10 to $15k or is the $25k for 160k points would be the better way to go?

One additional question if you don't mind me harassing you - . have you been happy with IHG. We hoped to use the points for cruises - which we have done annually for the last 5 years. Any luck doing such or is it like RCI and for what points you have to loose it is better to just pay the difference?

Thanks again - I really appreciate the info.

John

 

[ZOOMOKLA]

There are two Facebook groups dealing with HIVC. There is a wealth of info there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[andex]

I appreciate the reply Tank. One attractive option they mentioned was the ability to call for example about a 3 bedroom unit which for example would run lets say 100k points. If available I could theoretically instead select a 2 bedroom for 80k and get 25% off so it ends up being 60k for a 3 bedroom. I also recall getting a free week every year and they acted like there were no restrictions.

John

It's either 25% off or the free upgrade. you cant have both.
if your going to take a run at elite , do it for as cheap as possible!

 

[tschwa2]

I think you are going to lose EE if you convert. I think if they get enough enough people to convert they will find a way to make it harder to find availability for EE for those eligible who do not convert. It was always based on availability and the more units controlled by HICV the fewer units will be available. It may take several years for availability to dry up or it may happen quickly. It may never happen.

I am also skeptical that they would take your deeded units and your father's and convert both with a single purchase and put them in the same account unless your name is on his account or part of the deal is changing them all into the same name(s) which I would expect HICV to charge on the upside of $600-$800 for the re-deeding/processing/closing.

 

[jkfpem5]

Thanks - will check out the Facebook pages. I can't say I'm surprised about the 25% or free upgrade (sales rep said we got both - typical). I think I will loose EE also and as you say it is only a matter of time before availability decreases so much it won't matter. My name is on 6 of the deeds. My thought was to add me to the 7th one (before Silverleaf would do it for a $250 charge).

Thanks for all the suggestions. I really do appreciate it.

 

[ZOOMOKLA]

The HIVC groups mentioned are "HOLIDAY INN CLUB OWNERS PAGE, NOT AFFILIATED WITH CORPORATE" and "HOLIDAY INN CLUB LOUNGE"


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Tank]

I can't say I'm surprised about the 25% or free upgrade (sales rep said we got both - typical)

You will have both, just can't use both at the same time ! In the 8 to 10 month window, Figure out if the 25% is better than the upgrade or visa-versa
Any other time if a upgrade is available, you will still be able to get it.

Yes , I have been happy with IHG but not for using it for cruises, air fair, or the ridiculous gift section. I do the math to decide if the better deal is to pay or use my points.

Dave

 

[andex]

i haven't been following the silver leaf saga? I am assuming SL wasn't automatically converted to points like other past acquisitions? is this correct?
To answer your question. yes that would be a great idea to pull in your father TS for more than one reason. then i would suggest you go through the painful process of doing a few updates to get a feel for the cheapest week you can buy to pull in your other inventory. take a look at Williamburg it can give you the added benefit of Interval if that worth anything to you.
You could also add a south beach, gatlinnburg, or Lake Geneva which come in as points. this would allow you to buy a smaller one from HIVC to get to Elite Status. good luck man!

 

[tschwa2]

Although you do get points from Wisconsin, Myrtle, and Gatlinburg with resale, those points don't count toward status. I have heard that as recently as the past 6 months HICV would convert up to 5 weeks with an $8000 purchase of Lake Geneva points but I think that was only about 20,000 points. They often threaten that the conversion of weeks with a new purchase will be changing in the future and will require a purchase for each converted week but so far I haven't heard that to be the case. They don't have a written policy but I haven't heard of anyone getting even a single week converted (with the exception of the specific newly acquired resorts that they offered free or very low cost conversions) for less than $8000 in the last 4 years.

The fact that they are letting you convert so many weeks with a single purchase may be due to the recent acquisition. While you may not need to jump at the first offer, I wouldn't expect to be allowed to bring in 6 + weeks with a single purchase to extend beyond silverleaf weeks purchased before the HICV acquisition and perhaps even then to be limited to a year or so from the acquisition.

I imagine that the resorts that were offered the free and low cost conversions were ones where there wasn't a lot of unsold developer inventory and HICV wanted to get that inventory into the vacation club for members. The fact that they didn't make that offer for Silverleaf probably meant they had enough unsold inventory and as they sell that inventory and get conversions that is where the EE inventory will disappear.

 

[andex]

Although you do get points from Wisconsin, Myrtle, and Gatlinburg with resale, those points don't count toward status. .

maybe not, but it will make a heck of difference in the size of contract needed to pull in your weeks and get you to elite!

 

[mentalbreak]

They don't have a written policy but I haven't heard of anyone getting even a single week converted (with the exception of the specific newly acquired resorts that they offered free or very low cost conversions) for less than $8000 in the last 4 years.

As an OLCC - Orlando resale weeks owner (west and north villages), I signed and rescinded a points conversion in 2013 to convert our 2 weeks with a small EOY Lake Geneva points purchase for much less than $8k.

 

[GTT1966]

Thanks - will check out the Facebook pages. I can't say I'm surprised about the 25% or free upgrade (sales rep said we got both - typical). I think I will loose EE also and as you say it is only a matter of time before availability decreases so much it won't matter. My name is on 6 of the deeds. My thought was to add me to the 7th one (before Silverleaf would do it for a $250 charge).

Thanks for all the suggestions. I really do appreciate it.

I just joined TUG and familiarizing my self with this site, I ran across your post. I'm curious if you made the switch from SL to HIVC and if so what you are experiencing. We switched over in April. Didn't have the endless escape but did keep the SL's regular bonus time. We are learning as we go... alarmed at two findings. First we found there is a $59 Reservation Fee for every on-line booking, even if it's one of the SL properties. The last discovery and most alarming is the 2017 Maintenance Fee invoice we just received for two properties we own at Holiday Hills in Branson, two Ambassadors wks 26 & 29. HIVC increased the maintenance fee 260% over what we paid 2016 under Silver Leaf. Reason given, the point value they assigned to the property (350,000 each). I'm trying to reach a responsible person at Orange Lake but so far haven't gotten past the receptionist/clerk or automated attendant.

 

[skotrla]

If you bought all these aftermarket , and for $25,000 you are able to be Elite status bringing them all on board is a pretty sweat deal I think.
Yes, all the perks work if you are a planner.
You can not convert them at this time without buying.
I have been very happy as a HICV point owner.
The 5:4 ratio is ok, once you put them in IHG they never expire unless your account becomes dormant for a year.
RCI gives you a whole lot of other options for sure

Silverleaf owners don't want to loose that EE and BT but your the first one I heard that can actually make out with HICV and be at the top in a system that is on the march as they grow.

Recent conversion offers seems to be in the $8K-$10K range for 4 existing units. Vs. converting all units for $25K, my recommendation would be to buy enough resale points units before the conversion so that your 4 lowest maintenance units will put you over 1M points. Then you can just sell the extra units.

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group

 

[Bmatrose]

I just joined TUG and familiarizing my self with this site, I ran across your post. I'm curious if you made the switch from SL to HIVC and if so what you are experiencing. We switched over in April. Didn't have the endless escape but did keep the SL's regular bonus time. We are learning as we go... alarmed at two findings. First we found there is a $59 Reservation Fee for every on-line booking, even if it's one of the SL properties. The last discovery and most alarming is the 2017 Maintenance Fee invoice we just received for two properties we own at Holiday Hills in Branson, two Ambassadors wks 26 & 29. HIVC increased the maintenance fee 260% over what we paid 2016 under Silver Leaf. Reason given, the point value they assigned to the property (350,000 each). I'm trying to reach a responsible person at Orange Lake but so far haven't gotten past the receptionist/clerk or automated attendant.

Same thing happend to me with Holiday Hills. I have a 3 bedroom Ambassador and it went from ~700 up to ~1900 in maintenance fees. Explanation is that Silverleaf charged all owners the same amount and now that we have converted the properties to points they are reassessing based on bedrooms and type of room. Silverleaf owners who didn't convert to points wont have their maintenance fees increased right away but eventually will.

 

[Sabrina]

Same thing happend to me with Holiday Hills. I have a 3 bedroom Ambassador and it went from ~700 up to ~1900 in maintenance fees. Explanation is that Silverleaf charged all owners the same amount and now that we have converted the properties to points they are reassessing based on bedrooms and type of room. Silverleaf owners who didn't convert to points wont have their maintenance fees increased right away but eventually will.

I am a owner with silverleaf we own six units one in Branson and five at Oak n Spruce our maintenance fees have also gone up to $90.80 each unit. They have now informed me I can no longer use my bonus time as we have, we are use to booking three or four units at once they now say we can only use one unit at a time of bonus time and not at the same time as any of our other units. Why will we need multiple units after many years of being a owner now? I just wrote BBB today and I plan on sitting outside of their property in Lee,MA with signage explaining our gripe.

 

[Sabrina]

There are two Facebook groups dealing with HIVC. There is a wealth of info there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

What are the names of the Facebook I will like to add as friend or like the pages

 

[Sabrina]

We have been Silverleaf Owners for the past 14 or so years. Between parents and myself we own 7 weeks. Fortunately we bought them all second hand and paid nothing, actually have prime weeks including weeks 25, 26, 46, 51. 6 of the 7 are red weeks and 5 of the 6 red weeks have endless escapes.

We stayed the weekend of Oct 15th, 2016 at Seaside in Galveston and got our first pitch to convert to points. We agreed after hearing the spill. In the end we would have to purchase an Orange Lake Resort week in Orlando Florida for $25k but this would put us with over 1 million points a year at around $7k in annual dues. We would be at the top tier of HIVC - Elite. These include perks like 25% off all resv (50k points for week, subtract 12500 so only 37500 for the week). Unlimited upgrades (if book a 2 bedroom and 3 bedroom is available we get the 3 bedroom), can book resv 9 months ahead of date at non-home resorts. We also got the whole conversation to RCI and IHG spill. Thought maybe we could use points for cruises/hotels as that has been our primary vacationing lately (still unsure if can use enough to matter - no one could answer).

HOWEVER - it all went south, mind you 10 hours after we arrived and were into this, when we got to the new Bonus Time disclosure docs. The language included required you to basically own the week prior to January 9, 2002 to retain Endless Escapes, otherwise it was just regular bonus time. I told him we had bought off second hand market and didn't think that would allow me to keep my EE on all accounts except for maybe one. The sales rep said that didn't matter it was when the week was originally sold. I told him no way - EE is the main reason why I have the accounts and unless I was provided an addendum that classified me as "grandfathered" with EE on all my accounts that it was on I wasn't signing. You would have thought I asked for his kid's head on a platter. The guy went berserk, wouldn't get a manger, wouldn't do anything. Said we were done - and he was right. No way in heck I was going to risk loosing the EE.

So here are my questions for anyone who does have HIVC or has been through a conversion:
1) I was basically offered to have to pay .18 for each point - it that high or about right?
2) is anyone an elite (1 million + ) points a year and have you really been able to use the perks?
3) anyone familiar with any way I can convert the weeks to points without buying?
4) I have heard if you do convert HIVC views ALL your Silverleaf accounts as one account with HICV therefore you can only book a single bonus time reservation (no multiple BT at the same time on the same weekend)
5) has anyone lost Endless escapes due to the language and only has regular Bonus Time?
6) has anyone been able to get a letter/addendum from a manager/corporate authorizing being defined as "grandfathered" (so EE is tied to all accounts)
7) when you transfer from HICV to IHG there is a 5:4 ratio so you lose points - is this a big deal in the grand scheme of things?
8) do you really get considerably more access to other units when exchanging with RCI?
9) for those who own HICV - have you been happy with them?
10) any other great thoughts of suggestions would of course be appreciated.

They were going to make me sign a conversation document for each of the accounts and an updated bonus time disclosure statement for each account. In the end I expect they will use the new BT docs to do away with BT all together.

Given the points I will have and the perks thought it might be worth it. We do use our BT all the time and take friends with us, this is because we are central to several resorts here in Texas including Piney Shore, Hill Country, Galveston, and the Villages. They are all within 3 hours.

Curious if any experts around here who care to share some wisdom.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions or thoughts.

John

I was there almost nine hours and was ready to purchase not convert I was told I was buying a platinum week and once I got in the office to sign paperwork, in small print it said silver week was was so upset because of my time wasted and I asked al the questions she told me the holiday inn will come with bonus time also and my other units I own with silverleaf will not change they will keep the EE and bonus time. When I showed her it said silver week and no bonus time she then said if we give you mor bonus time we won't have none for our other owners I said miss I am leaving I will not be buying anything