Rescind and purchase resale for Westin Ka'anapali North? Limitations on resale?

[PacNW MM]

My husband and I attended a sales presentation for the new Westin Nanea property in Maui while staying at the Westin Ka'anapali-North property on a promotional offer. We ended up purchasing at Nanea and while we like the fact that we own and expect that we will make good use of the ownership, we are questioning whether we would be better off purchasing resale. (I know that Nanea is not available via resale, given that it is a new property, but we would be happy to own at Westin Ka'anapali-North as an alternative.) We are still within the rescission period, so if our questions and doubts below can be resolved, we'd like to rescind and pursue the resale option instead.

The real question for us is whether we will have all of the same rights and flexibility as an owner via resale that we would have as an owner via the developer. If we buy resale at Westin Ka'anapali-North, can we use the associated StarOptions to stay at any other Vistana property? Can we exchange StarOptions for SPG points for hotel stays? Are there any additional limitations or requirements that would be placed on our ability to use our ownership if we became owners through the resale market?

Many thanks in advance to all of the TUG experts out there who might be able to offer advice here!

 

[Henry M.]

The mantra here is Rescind, Research, buy Resale.

To answer your questions:

1.) Yes, you can use Staroptions from WKORV-N or WKORV to stay at other Starwood properties.
2.) No, you cannot exchange Staroptions for SPG points when you buy resale. Exchanging for hotel points is not a great value unless you stay at higher end European hotels.
3.) The difference between mandatory resales and developer purchases is the ability to exchange for Starpoints and accumulating weeks to achieve Elite status. At voluntary resorts, such as Nanea, you also lose the ability to exchange via the Vistana network when you buy resale.

Note that Nanea is not a "mandatory" property, so resales at Nanea would not include the ability to exchange into other properties through the Vistana network. This greatly reduces the resale value. You will lose a much greater percentage of the price you paid than if you had bought a mandatory property (like the other 2 properties down the beach). If I absolutely wanted to buy from the developer in Hawaii, I'd buy a mandatory week at WKORV or WKORV-N. Vistana sometimes gets inventory at these older properties. However, resale is your best bet.

Rescind, read the stickies at the top of this forum, and then buy a resale week at WKORV or WKORV-N, if you value making reservations in high demand periods, like early in the year (Jan-March - whale season) or summer. You can also buy at other mandatory locations if you want to lower maintenance fees and then exchange into Hawaii during lower demand periods.

The money you save buying resale (perhaps 3/4 or more of the purchase price for a voluntary property, a little less for mandatory properties) can buy a lot of hotel rooms, compared with exchanging for SPG points.

I prefer to buy where I want to go, even if the maintenance fees are higher. The only thing guaranteed by your deed is usage of your home resort. Program changes can happen at any time. Others prefer to save some money and take the risk that at some point in the future exchanges could become scarce. It has already happened that exchanging into Hawaii during high demand periods has become more difficult than in the past.

 

[Ken555]

Get out while you can and before you regret it! Take your time before purchasing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[LisaRex]

For $25-30,000, you can buy an OF unit on the resale market at WKORV or WKORV-N. It may take a few times to get past the Right of First Refusal, but you'll save tens of thousands of dollars. That is all you really need to know.

 

[Password is taco]

Congratulations on finding TUG! You will save tons by rescinding and buying resale.

 

[DavidnRobin]

DO NOT buy an expensive luxury item without thoroughly researching first (not after the fact). #CommonSense

 

[TUGBrian]

congrats on finding TUG in time to save an absolute fortune!

 

[PacNW MM]

Many thanks, emuyshondt! Your response was most helpful in answering my questions. I appreciate your advice and have followed the instructions in our sales paperwork to rescind the contract.

The mantra here is Rescind, Research, buy Resale.

To answer your questions:

1.) Yes, you can use Staroptions from WKORV-N or WKORV to stay at other Starwood properties.
2.) No, you cannot exchange Staroptions for SPG points when you buy resale. Exchanging for hotel points is not a great value unless you stay at higher end European hotels.
3.) The difference between mandatory resales and developer purchases is the ability to exchange for Starpoints and accumulating weeks to achieve Elite status. At voluntary resorts, such as Nanea, you also lose the ability to exchange via the Vistana network when you buy resale.

Note that Nanea is not a "mandatory" property, so resales at Nanea would not include the ability to exchange into other properties through the Vistana network. This greatly reduces the resale value. You will lose a much greater percentage of the price you paid than if you had bought a mandatory property (like the other 2 properties down the beach). If I absolutely wanted to buy from the developer in Hawaii, I'd buy a mandatory week at WKORV or WKORV-N. Vistana sometimes gets inventory at these older properties. However, resale is your best bet.

Rescind, read the stickies at the top of this forum, and then buy a resale week at WKORV or WKORV-N, if you value making reservations in high demand periods, like early in the year (Jan-March - whale season) or summer. You can also buy at other mandatory locations if you want to lower maintenance fees and then exchange into Hawaii during lower demand periods.

The money you save buying resale (perhaps 3/4 or more of the purchase price for a voluntary property, a little less for mandatory properties) can buy a lot of hotel rooms, compared with exchanging for SPG points.

I prefer to buy where I want to go, even if the maintenance fees are higher. The only thing guaranteed by your deed is usage of your home resort. Program changes can happen at any time. Others prefer to save some money and take the risk that at some point in the future exchanges could become scarce. It has already happened that exchanging into Hawaii during high demand periods has become more difficult than in the past.

 

[PacNW MM]

DO NOT buy an expensive luxury item without thoroughly researching first (not after the fact). #CommonSense

Having not expected to purchase, we did not research ahead of time, but hopefully my timely efforts to seek wise counsel here at TUG and my understanding and exercise of my right to rescind help to redeem me from this mistake. #PolitenessIsAVirtue

 

[taffy19]

Thank goodness that you did your research while on vacation! You saved many years of maintenance fees or will not lose so much when you decide to sell one day.

 

[Henry M.]

Many thanks, emuyshondt! Your response was most helpful in answering my questions. I appreciate your advice and have followed the instructions in our sales paperwork to rescind the contract.

You should be ok. From what I've seen, Vistana is good at accepting your rescission and cancelling the whole transaction. In spite of their strong attempts to sell, they are professional and do let you change your mind without major hassles.

Here's some additional perspective from my point of view.

I really like WKORV and actually own 4 weeks there (2 at WKORV and 2 at WKORV-N). I bought mine from the developer, during construction times, and before knowing about TUG. Even though I paid too much, at the time resales weren't that much cheaper than buying direct. I thought the price wasn't so bad for what I wanted to do, and I am still happy that I purchased and was able to enjoy my time there. I've owned for 15 years now, and I could still sell for a little less than half of the price I paid back then. I had assumed 0 value at the end anyhow. It has been a lot cheaper than full ownership of a beach front property on the wonderful beach there. Buying resale would have had less depreciation, but I can't go back to do it that way. I've enjoyed my 5 Star elite status because I often stay in Starwood hotels and have had some great upgrades around the world. This makes up a little for the higher price I paid, though it certainly doesn't fully justify it. The memories I have with my kids are priceless. They started going when they were very young and now as adults will never pass up to come along whenever we invite them.

I think they are great properties and I really like the ability to use the lock-offs. I usually reserve one side first and then the other side for a second week to stay there. The majority of units give you 148,100 StarOptions.

Since I own there and make my reservations 12 months out, I rarely have issues going exactly when I want to go, whether for whale season or to get away from the summer Texas heat.

Nanea is different, since you are only buying the options. You can't stay 2 weeks there with 148,100 SOs. First, there are no 67,100 studios, and 148,100 are not enough for two 1BR reservations. Second, there are few 1BR units (49, maybe?), so they will be harder to find in the higher demand periods. If you bought 81,000 SO's, you might have a hard time getting a unit during certain times of the year. The other properties have half 1BR and half studios, so there's much better availability of the lower SO units. The maintenance fees are a lot higher at Nanea than at the other two properties. I also like the beaches at the other resorts better.

Henry

 

[1320401]

Hoping to tag onto this a bit. My wife and I purchased WLM from the developer but are now planning on rescinding and buying resale at WKORV-N/WKORV for about half the $$ outlay. A few "mechanics" questions:

• When reserving at your home resort 12 months in advance do you need to reserve the specific unit type purchased? For example, if I buy a 2 BR unit can I reserve a 1 BR at the 12 month mark and save the StarOptions from the Studio for future use?
• 12 month advanced bookings require a 7 night stay, correct? When can bookings for shorter periods be made (i.e. a 3 night stay starting on a Tuesday)?
• Are resale StarOptions able to be banked in the same way that developer purchased can be ($99 fee, 2 year use window)?
• If we buy the WKORV but want to instead go to Kauai, we would need to make that booking 8 months in advance, right? How easy is finding Hawaii availability outside of your home resort?
• Is there any correlation between availability for cash booking on SPG.com and availability for owner bookings? For example, the Westin Princeville has studios and 1BR available on SPG.com for early November, can I presume that one would also be able to find a StartOption booking during that time?

Any and all responses are appreciated.

 

[vacationtime1]

Hoping to tag onto this a bit. My wife and I purchased WLM from the developer but are now planning on rescinding and buying resale at WKORV-N/WKORV for about half the $$ outlay. A few "mechanics" questions:

• When reserving at your home resort 12 months in advance do you need to reserve the specific unit type purchased? For example, if I buy a 2 BR unit can I reserve a 1 BR at the 12 month mark and save the StarOptions from the Studio for future use? Yes
• 12 month advanced bookings require a 7 night stay, correct? When can bookings for shorter periods be made (i.e. a 3 night stay starting on a Tuesday)? Eight months.
• Are resale StarOptions able to be banked in the same way that developer purchased can be ($99 fee, 2 year use window)? Yes
• If we buy the WKORV but want to instead go to Kauai, we would need to make that booking 8 months in advance, right? How easy is finding Hawaii availability outside of your home resort? Yes, eight months. Availability "depends". Princeville is usually available at the eight month mark. Ka'anapali is more difficult; don't count on it whale season, school holidays, and summers, although it does happen sometimes.
• Is there any correlation between availability for cash booking on SPG.com and availability for owner bookings? For example, the Westin Princeville has studios and 1BR available on SPG.com for early November, can I presume that one would also be able to find a StartOption booking during that time? There probably is a correlation, but there are different "pools" of units available to SPG vs. SVN/VSE.

Any and all responses are appreciated.

Those are good questions. My answers are interlineated in red above.

 

[1320401]

Thanks so much vacationtime1! A couple of follow-ups:

• Is Ka'anapali availability an issue for owners at the 12 month mark?
• How easy is it to do split week bookings? For example, 3 nights in Princeville, 4 in Maui.
• From a mechanics standpoint, is your account just deposited with the number of StarOptions points for your use year or is there an active step that is required to "convert" the home week into StartOptions?
• My wife and I are planning on an every-other year purchase of a 2BR. We can use the 1BR in our use year and bank the Studio and use that the following year - effectively giving us 1 week every year, correct?
• Does the WKORV-N offer lock-offs or the ability to just reserve a 1BR (finding some conflicting info)?

Again, thanks so much for the help.

 

[LisaRex]

Is Ka'anapali availability an issue for owners at the 12 month mark? High season weeks (late Jan/Feb/March, mid-June to early August) are difficult to get and President's Day has been notoriously difficult to book. Also, Weeks 50-52 are Event weeks, so you won't be able to ever book these.

• How easy is it to do split week bookings? For example, 3 nights in Princeville, 4 in Maui. It's been historically somewhat easy for WPORV, far less difficult for WKORV. Remember that if you split your weeks, you are using StarOptions, so you can't book in the Home resort period and will then be in competition with the rest of SO exchangers. And you'll also lose your view because it's a SO exchange. If you buy at a high demand and expensive resort such as WKORV, IMO, you should plan on booking the entire week.

• From a mechanics standpoint, is your account just deposited with the number of StarOptions points for your use year or is there an active step that is required to "convert" the home week into StartOptions? No action is required to use SOs. If you want to deposit to use next year, however, you do need to call and request that be done by July 1st of the use year, and pay the deposit fee of $99.

• My wife and I are planning on an every-other year purchase of a 2BR. We can use the 1BR in our use year and bank the Studio and use that the following year - effectively giving us 1 week every year, correct? Yes, but the non-use year will automatically be a StarOption booking, so you shouldn't count on exchanging into WKORV unless it's low season, such as late spring or fall. WPORV is doable, and there is another Sheraton Poipu resort on Kauai in the works as well, but I anticipate that will be more difficult than WPORV because it's the more touristy (sunnier) area near a beach.

• Does the WKORV-N offer lock-offs or the ability to just reserve a 1BR (finding some conflicting info)? WKORV-N was sold as all 2 bdrm lockoffs. However, since it's a lockoff, you can still reserve the entire 2 bdrm, a 1 bdrm and/or a studio.

I, personally, wouldn't buy an EOY with the intention of using both years at WKORV because you lose your view and home resort priority every 2nd year. They do sell dedicated 1 bdrm units at WKORV, but they are more expensive in terms of MFs. Still, that might be a better option than splitting a lockoff.

 

[Henry M.]

I am usually able to get what I want on Maui, but I do have to reserve early for the highest demand seasons. For President's week, for example, I would probably be up at midnight EST to make sure you get my reservation in. Having said that, I have also made a reservation on Maui in Late January from one week to the next and even found frequent flyer miles to go on a spur of the moment trip.

I would not change islands with just a one week reservation. You essentially lose a whole day in the process, checking out, returning rental car, getting to the airport early, etc. I only change islands if I am staying a couple of weeks. I don't think it is hard to do from a StarOptions point of view. Princeville is easier to get than Maui.

I don't do anything in particular to go from using my home resort period to using StarOptions. It is all automatic. When you make a reservation through the Vistana online system, you are told which specific StarOptions are being used.

I am not sure about every-other-year usage. My understanding is that you buy the ability to go in either even or odd years. You can't go in the opposite period. Thus, in your example, you couldn't use the studio until two years later. I'd ask to see something in writing one way or another. I am really not sure about this one.

WKORV and WKORV-N both offer lock-offs. I've used them at both properties, so this is a certainty. Nanea does NOT have lock-offs. Maybe someone is confusing Nanea with a Norh property, because it is north of the two other resorts.

 

[undrpar64]

I am usually able to get what I want on Maui, but I do have to reserve early for the highest demand seasons. For President's week, for example, I would probably be up at midnight EST to make sure you get my reservation in. Having said that, I have also made a reservation on Maui in Late January from one week to the next and even found frequent flyer miles to go on a spur of the moment trip.

I would not change islands with just a one week reservation. You essentially lose a whole day in the process, checking out, returning rental car, getting to the airport early, etc. I only change islands if I am staying a couple of weeks. I don't think it is hard to do from a StarOptions point of view. Princeville is easier to get than Maui.

I don't do anything in particular to go,from using my home resort period to using StarOptions. It is all aitomatic. When you make a reservation through the Vistana online system, you are told which specific StarOptions are being used.

I am not sure about every-other-year usage. My understanding is that you buy the ability to go in either even or odd years. You can't go in the opposite period. Thus, in your example, you couldn't use the studio until two years later. I'd ask to see something in writing one way or another. I am really not sure about this one.

WKORV and WKORV-N both offer lock-offs. I've used them at both properties, so this is a certainty. Nanea does NOT have lock-offs. Maybe someone is confusing Nanea with a Norh property, because it is north of the two other resorts.

 

[undrpar64]

You can split the reservation and use in consecutive years if there is availability. You could use the 1 bdrm the first year and book at 8-12 month time period and then bank the remaining staroptions and use them for a booking at the 8 month or less opportunity.

 

[1320401]

Thank you all very much for the reply. It has been a great help!

So I am clear, assuming I own a 2BR but only want to book a 1BR I CAN do so at the 12 month mark, correct?

When we went through the sales presentation at WLM they made it sound like there wasn't an issue doing an SO booking in your off year for EOY usage. Would be good to confirm though. How is it best to do so? Via the email option on Vistana's website or otherwise?

In any case, we wouldn't plan on the Ka'annapali for two consecutive years - would like to use our off-year SO for another property somewhere else.

Again, I appreciate all of the great help and advice.

 

[Henry M.]

Yes, you can reserve a 1BR 12 months out.

I have split my 2BR several different ways over the years:

- I've reserved just one side 12 months out. I then reserved the other side the following week.
- I've reserved both sides separately 12 months out. This results in two independent reservations, and the rooms may not necessarily be next to each other. I did this when I only wanted to use one side myself and let someone else use the other one, but wasn't sure about the other party's attendance.
- I've made a 2BR reservation and later split it to use one of the sides at a different time. One of the sides retains the original time stamp and the other results in a new reservation.
- I've made reservation 8 months out for more days in a smaller unit.

To me, the lock-off feature makes a huge difference in the flexibility of my ownership.

 

[LisaRex]

So I am clear, assuming I own a 2BR but only want to book a 1BR I CAN do so at the 12 month mark, correct?

ONLY if it's your use year. So if you own an EOY even 2 bdrm lockoff, you can book either side or both sides for 2018 usage at 12 months out. What you don't use, you can deposit (for $99) for use in 2019 or 2020. But you won't be able to use those SOs to book anything at 12 months out because the SO reservation opens at 8 months.

It doesn't matter if you book back into your home resort. An SO reservation is an SO reservation.

 

[LisaRex]

I am not sure about every-other-year usage. My understanding is that you buy the ability to go in either even or odd years. You can't go in the opposite period. Thus, in your example, you couldn't use the studio until two years later. I'd ask to see something in writing one way or another. I am really not sure about this one.

You can only book at 12 months out for the years you bought. So if you have an EOY odd, you can book a 2017 reservation at 12 months out. If you want to book a villa for an even year, you'd deposit your leftover SOs by July 1st, 2017, and then book a reservation anywhere in the SVN network (subject to availability) 8 months out.

Once again, if you buy an EOY ownership, you will only get the view you paid for, and home resort priority, every other year. You can take advantage of depositing to use in non-use years, but you forfeit your home priority period.

 

[1320401]

Thank you all very much for the help and the great info!

Our rescind letter is in the mail today and now the hunt begins for a Maui resale property.

 

[duke]

I, personally, wouldn't buy an EOY with the intention of using both years at WKORV because you lose your view and home resort priority every 2nd year. They do sell dedicated 1 bdrm units at WKORV, but they are more expensive in terms of MFs. Still, that might be a better option than splitting a lockoff.

Lisa is 100% correct in her advice. Buying a resale EY 1 BR at WKORV would be a much better deal for you. First, you get a better view for sure as the 1BRs are closer to the beach. Second, you would have a large 1BR EY rather than the small studio the other years. And price is comparable for a resale EY 1Br vs. EOY 2BR LO. Oh, and you get 12 month priority for the time you want. Pay attention.....

 

[DavidnRobin]

I would advise to stay away from the 1Bd WKORV resale - it has some of the highest MF per square foot.
The extra studio side is cheap when you compare MFs to the 2Bd LO (Prem), and allows for an extra 67.1K SO which can be used in VSN (at 8 months) to add on vacation days that are no longer confined to a weekly reservation.
(For example - use the extra 67.1K SO to add on 6 nights (e.g. Sat-Fri) in a 1Bd at the 8-month mark)

The studio costs about an additional $360 (approx.) in annual MFs for an additional 67.1K SO - those are the cheapest SO/MF available.
Be careful...

Congrats to anyone who finds TUG in time to rescind - too many do not.