Recent Observations on State of the MVCI Resorts

[SkyBlueWaters]

I love my home resort, Mountainside at Park City, mainly for its location, but there were some things that bothered me about how run down it is already after only about a year of renovation. The soft goods showed wear and tear; the theatre, newly installed, seemed old already and the lights were sticking out on the screen, the screen was cheap; the newly installed grills seemed beat up already and the ignition switches were ALL broken. Who do I complain to and how to find out what's going on in my home resort? When we first stayed there in 2009, it was pristine. Now, it seems to be beaten up. The cracks are showing on the concrete around the hot tubs and the pool. Where is the refurbishment money going? The design plan shown on the presentation board was only halfway implemented.

Moreover, I am concerned that booking it to fill up is probably overriding the exclusivity of the vacation club, affecting the condition of the resorts. I'm afraid occupancy limits may not be enforced, affecting the state of the resort. This observation applies to all the resorts I've been to lately, Ko Olina, Grande Vista, Royal Palms.

 

[SueDonJ]

I love my home resort, Mountainside at Park City, mainly for its location, but there were some things that bothered me about how run down it is already after only about a year of renovation. The soft goods showed wear and tear; the theatre, newly installed, seemed old already and the lights were sticking out on the screen, the screen was cheap; the newly installed grills seemed beat up already and the ignition switches were ALL broken. Who do I complain to and how to find out what's going on in my home resort? When we first stayed there in 2009, it was pristine. Now, it seems to be beaten up. The cracks are showing on the concrete around the hot tubs and the pool. Where is the refurbishment money going? The design plan shown on the presentation board was only halfway implemented.

Moreover, I am concerned that booking it to fill up is probably overriding the exclusivity of the vacation club, affecting the condition of the resorts. I'm afraid occupancy limits may not be enforced, affecting the state of the resort. This observation applies to all the resorts I've been to lately, Ko Olina, Grande Vista, Royal Palms.

Sign in to your my-vacationclub.com account by clicking through this "My Resorts" link, then click on the "View Resort Page" link, then click on the "Weeks Owners" tab, then scroll down to the "Click here" link under "Contact Your Board of Directors." A direct email link will come up on the next page and you can add the email address to your contacts. Note each resort has its own contact information.

If you want to take things further up to the MVW Executive Leadership, I'd contact:
Clifford M. Delorey, Executive Vice President and Chief Resort Experience Officer
Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corp.
6649 Westwood Blvd., Suite 500
Orlando, FL 32821
United States of America
P: 407-206-6000

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

I concur with your observations. A number of the MVCI properties i have visited over the past few months have appeared worn and weathered. Particularly disappointing was Grande Vista in Orlando. Marriott needs to maintain these in appearance and amenities like a 5-star resort and not let these places get worn and run down.

 

[mjm1]

Sorry to hear these reports. We have not had that experience during recent stays Grand Chateau or Desert Springs Villas II. Same thing with Ko Olina last June. I suspect this is a property-by-property issue and lies in the resort board and management.

Good luck with getting some action and results.

Mike

 

[SkyBlueWaters]

Sorry to hear these reports. We have not had that experience during recent stays Grand Chateau or Desert Springs Villas II. Same thing with Ko Olina last June. I suspect this is a property-by-property issue and lies in the resort board and management.

Good luck with getting some action and results.

Mike

I truly don't know what the issue is, but the observation was from my recent visits. It seems to be a pattern, or maybe they just can't help the ravages that time brings to a property. Or perhaps because the honeymoon is over for me. I don't know, but for sure, Grande Vista needs to be pristine since it is the flagship resort right next to the head office. Seeing broken light fixtures that are rusted and covered with cobwebs, seeing the housekeeping in unkempt uniforms, seeing the deterioration of attention to detail that attracted me to my resort is disheartening.

When I first came in to Mountainside, years ago, my first impression was, wow, what a classy place. Now, it's meh. My husband observes it must be due to the hard use it gets from skiers (we walk around in our ski boots). I think, it's the other stuff going on in there when we're not there, like in off season and in the summer when it's run down by teenagers and locals from the favorable pricing Marriott puts out to attract bookings.

There has to be a balance between filling up the rooms and considering the wear and tear these permissive bookings and occupancy can do to the rooms, and the decline in the sense of exclusivity, which is part of Marriott's quality/branding.

 

[dansimms]

Concerning / Surprising

This is concerning and surprising. I was just commenting at a recent visit to Ocean Pointe, one of my home resorts, how I felt it had never looked better. Thanks for bringing it up. My next stay is at Desert Springs 1 and I had hoped to see something similar in a good way there. We haven't been for over 5 years due to trades.

 

[bastroum]

In the past 3 months we've been to Marriott Ocean Club in Aruba, Grande Vista in Orlando and Marriott Maui Ocean Club in Maui. All three resorts were in good shape. Marriott Maui Ocean Club looked better than ever. Next month will be in Desert Springs II, we were there in May 2014 and that was just refurbished.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Sorry to hear these reports. We have not had that experience during recent stays Grand Chateau or Desert Springs Villas II. Same thing with Ko Olina last June. I suspect this is a property-by-property issue and lies in the resort board and management.

Good luck with getting some action and results.

Mike

I agree that there are some property-by-property issues.

I like the Grand Chateau, but when I was there,
1. The dishwasher seal was bad and I would see soap residue on the tile floor that had run out of the door.
2. The drier was a joke. It is non-vented and uses a refrigeration cycle to pull out the moisture and the condensed water is supposed to go down the drain. But after about 3 or 4 hours of drying the clothes were still semi-damp. So that science experiment didn't work.
3. The shower door seal leaked and we had to put towels on the floor to soak up the pool of water.

We still had fun, but I thought that there were a bunch of engineering problems.

At Newport Coast, last fall we were in a unit where the "lightweight" concrete under the tile flooring was "bad". It is a known problem by their engineering. In the kitchen about a dozen floor tiles were either cracked in pieces or were loose and floating around. Thank goodness that it didn't negatively affect our vacation.

At DSV1 and DSV2, I have been much happier. I think that the head of engineering, Glenn N., is very sharp and on top of most things.

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

I truly don't know what the issue is, but the observation was from my recent visits. It seems to be a pattern, or maybe they just can't help the ravages that time brings to a property. Or perhaps because the honeymoon is over for me. I don't know, but for sure, Grande Vista needs to be pristine since it is the flagship resort right next to the head office. Seeing broken light fixtures that are rusted and covered with cobwebs, seeing the housekeeping in unkempt uniforms, seeing the deterioration of attention to detail that attracted me to my resort is disheartening........

There has to be a balance between filling up the rooms and considering the wear and tear these permissive bookings and occupancy can do to the rooms, and the decline in the sense of exclusivity, which is part of Marriott's quality/branding.

I agree 100%. At Grande Vista even the front entrance signs from the road were old looking and faded. There has been a decline in the attention to detail for sure.

My first MVCI experiences were at Newport Coast. A beautiful, well-mainlined resort. I guess that is what led me to believe that they would all have that look, feel and freshness to them. Unfortunately that has not been my experience. Harbour Lake is our next trip, we shall see.....

 

[jme]

At Grande Vista last April, in two separate units (dedicated 3-BR and dedicated 2-BR, both distant from each other), and both were great. They have a regular refurbishment schedule at GV, and are good about adhering to it, so maybe the areas cited above for needed & overdue attention were isolated areas, due up next for refurb. That has to be what happened, as I've heard from others that most of GV's villas are quite nice. The resort is so large that refurbs are done in constant rotations.

As for Mountainside, we've stayed there several times (about 7 years ago) and the units were fine, but I can totally see why such a resort gets beaten up so quickly. It's true that in ski season everybody walks around in boots twice a day----at lunch and at the end of the ski day, so the wear and tear is much worse than a normal resort. Same for Summit Watch. They might have to adjust the refurb schedule to account for that! ...........Perhaps an assessment..........Anyway, it's certainly a specific problem at a specific TYPE of resort, and I'm sure EVERY SKI RESORT across the board, regardless of the brand, requires more upkeep.

I'm yet to stay in any Marriott resort that is "awful", and we've stayed in many (18). I am only assuming, but if there's one in THAT state of disrepair, it's most likely due for refurbishment very soon. The schedules and details are definitely resort-specific with several variables, and therefore all slightly different. This is the world we've chosen (reminiscent of an old Godfather quote), the problems are inherent, and not much will change.




.

 

[EducatedConsumer]

I agree 100%. At Grande Vista even the front entrance signs from the road were old looking and faded. There has been a decline in the attention to detail for sure.

My first MVCI experiences were at Newport Coast. A beautiful, well-mainlined resort. I guess that is what led me to believe that they would all have that look, feel and freshness to them. Unfortunately that has not been my experience. Harbour Lake is our next trip, we shall see.....

There was a time that a substantial number of leaders and non-leaders at Marriott Vacation Club came from "Marriott Lodging (Marriott's hotel division)." Those were people who lived "Marriott (hotel company) Values" every day, and who were experienced lodging and/or food and beverage professionals).

It seems to me that those values, that were once carried over to Marriott Vacation Club (from Marriott Lodging), are less prevalent and less "institutionalized" today, at Marriott Vacation Club, than they used to be.

I too have noticed a decay at some Marriott Vacation Club resorts. In my opinion, the fix to the declining performance at Marriott Vacation Club, is holding the Home Owner's Board accountable, holding Marriott Vacation Club accountable, completing and being frank on every Marriott Vacation Club and Interval International survey that you receive, and using Social Media to your advantage (e.g. Trip Advisor, TUG, Yelp) by contributing frank reviews.

Finally, I too have seen some real "value engineering (cheap looking products)" used/selected by the people who do refurbishments at Marriott Vacation Club Resorts. To the contrary, the people who make similar decisions at Disney Vacation Club resorts seem to make much better product selections for their refurbishments.

 

[Luvtoride]

Please people, aren't we all being a little picky about this? I just stayed in a Mariott Autograph collection hotel in NYC and it was one of the worst hotel rooms and experiences I've had. All of these,properties are subject to the local management and oversight from Corporate and they all don't do it well all the time. We are all loyal to Marriott and willing to spend our dollars for a level of quality which is usually pretty good. The one thing I have to say about Marriott management is that when you raise an issue they usually TRY to make it right, if it's anything within their control (can't change worn out carpeting on the spot). Otherwise they try to compensate the guest in some way for not meeting our expectations. That's part of the reason why when we have choices we choose Marriott instead of other hospitality companies. I'm very satisfied much more often then I'm disappointed.
Yes, reporting things to the management and holding the resort boards accountable is the best way to get action on Infrastructure type issues, but how many of us are willing to do that and follow through.

 

[dioxide45]

Perhaps I don't look at these things with this much detail. I have never noticed if the light fixture had some rust on it and certainly not an outdoor one.

Grande Vista is now almost 25 years old. Even the newest buildings are at lest 10. Even with constant updating an older resort is never going to look brand spanking new. In 25 years people will talk about how Lakeshore Reserve is tired looking.

Of course, given the amount we pay in MFs, things should be up to snuff. For us on our last visit to Grande Vista, I thought it looked pretty good. Perhaps I wasn't looking close enough?

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

Yes, whether a rusted light fixture, dated entrance signage, worn carpets, older landscaping I believe MVCI has an obligation to keep the resorts in a first-class manner at all times. These are resorts, not hotels and when I stay at one of the MVCI resorts, I want the look and feel of a resort not a dumpy hotel. Other vacation clubs such as Disney pride themselves on appearance. For the MF we pay, whether an owner tied to a specific property or DC member, I do not think its asking much. As I stated in a prior post, some of the older Orlando properties are beginning to look like a cookie cutter 55+ Florida retirement community as opposed to a vacation club resort.

 

[BobG7734]

What is missing in these comments and seems to be overlooked is the fact that WE own the properties...not Marriot Corporation and not Marriott Vacation Club Inc. (two distinct entities).

If, as an owner you are dissatisfied with any aspect of resort operations or condition, the recourse is to contact the appropriate people as Sue mentioned in her response. There is also a General Manage at each property who should also be contacted.

Remember...the Board at each property is elected by the owners and owners also have the opportunity to be candidates for a Board position.

 

[pedro47]

Marriott's resorts are still the best timeshare resorts in the United States. The over all conditions of their resorts properties interior and exterior and their building standards are the best in the timeshare industry.

 

[jme]

Perhaps I don't look at these things with this much detail. I have never noticed if the light fixture had some rust on it and certainly not an outdoor one.

Grande Vista is now almost 25 years old. Even the newest buildings are at lest 10. Even with constant updating an older resort is never going to look brand spanking new. In 25 years people will talk about how Lakeshore Reserve is tired looking.

Of course, given the amount we pay in MFs, things should be up to snuff. For us on our last visit to Grande Vista, I thought it looked pretty good. Perhaps I wasn't looking close enough?

OF COURSE you were looking, but nothing jumped out at you...... probably for a reason. You're not that kind of guy, Jeremy, and you know it. When have you ever been unobservant about anything? (That's a compliment.) If it had been terrible, you would have noticed.

I firmly believe the resort is fine. We traded in (we're not owners), and have stayed there several times, and I notice everything. It's neither a "retirement community" nor a neglected vacation resort. The place is great, the pools are pristine, and the units are refurbished on schedule. Florida structures endure a lot. Things age, but they are dealt with.

But as mentioned in this thread (rcgrogan), the resort is owned by the purchasers of that particular real estate, i.e., the owners, and ultimately the HOA answers to the wishes of the owners who elected them------that's its only purpose. The resort manager is likewise there to supervise the carrying out of the resort's responsibilities to the owners, from reservation issues to landscaping, to daily maintenance, and far more.



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[dioxide45]

OF COURSE you were looking, but nothing jumped out at you...... probably for a reason. You're not that kind of guy, Jeremy, and you know it. When have you ever been unobservant about anything? (That's a compliment.) If it had been terrible, you would have noticed.

I firmly believe the resort is fine. We traded in (we're not owners), and have stayed there several times, and I notice everything. It's neither a "retirement community" nor a neglected vacation resort. The place is great, the pools are pristine, and the units are refurbished on schedule. Florida structures endure a lot. Things age, but they are dealt with.

But as mentioned in this thread (rcgrogan), the resort is owned by the purchasers of that particular real estate, i.e., the owners, and ultimately the HOA answers to the wishes of the owners who elected them------that's its only purpose. The resort manager is likewise there to supervise the carrying out of the resort's responsibilities to the owners, from reservation issues to landscaping, to daily maintenance, and far more..

I guess it is more of a glass half full vs glass half empty sort of thing?

I think the "retirement community" comment was related to the three Palms resorts at the World Center.

I think it comes down to this. You have a 20 year old car, you can paint it, reupholster it and maintain it will all kinds of money. It will still look like a 20 year old car. Styles and architecture change. Short of tearing down the buildings and building with modern style and architecture, there is only so much they can do and only limited dollars to spend.

 

[EducatedConsumer]

I agree with some of the statements above. We pay a premium price in terms of maintenance fees, reserve fees, and in some cases, purchase price, and our resorts should be functioning at a level commensurate with the fees that we pay.

In my opinion, MountainSide is looking run down, with cheap fixtures, and band-aid repairs. Operating a "mountain resort" at a ski area is not something new to the lodging industry or to Marriott Vacation Club. Strategic, competent managers would prepare for the wear and tear that skis, boots, mountain bikes, snow, mud, etc. bring. Our maintenance fees, I think, are very high, and reflect the challenges of managing a "mountain resort."

For that matter, other resorts, have costly operational challenges, like: (1) salt water, sun and heat at BeachPlace Towers, (2) direct sun and heat at Desert Springs, and (3) ills of urban living at Custom House and BeachPlace Towers.

 

[Big Matt]

I'll give a different spin on this thread.

Yes, the resorts are aging, but I see overall improvement in terms of value. I've seen more activities added, fire pits added, corn hole and other games including bocce added. I've seen management be proactive in dealing with soft goods and making sure that furniture is replaced when necessary.

I do not see Marriott decreasing quality in any way shape or form.

Having said that, my experience is limited to many east coast and Florida resorts regularly and Newport Coast and Ko Olina a couple times, but I've never, ever had a bad room.

We aren't dealing with the other timeshare companies.

 

[SueDonJ]

We stayed at Timber Lodge in December. Like a few others' experience here, I thought the unit was looking a bit tired and that the latest refurb (whenever it was) wasn't a very good one because the kitchen cabinet doors were all un-aligned and a few of the hinges were hanging by a thread. Not sure how wearing ski boots in the unit twice a day would cause that ...

Does somebody now want to tell me that the only reason I noticed that the cabinet doors were a mess was because my glass is half-full or I have a bad attitude?! I don't think so - if anything I give Marriott the benefit of the doubt more often than most on TUG. I'd guess that others who are reporting similar issues at other resorts didn't go looking for the issues either - sometimes they are, simply, obvious.

That said, I don't expect perfection (and doubt it's possible even at the most exclusive and hoity-toity places!) But if we don't report these issues as we see them then it's possible that they won't be fixed in a timely manner. There's nothing wrong with contacting Housekeeping/Maintenance when you're onsite and following up with the resort GM after your stay. If I see things out of sorts at my home resort I take those further by using the BOD contact link to let them know. If they're unresponsive (which I haven't had happen) then I wouldn't hesitate to use that Exec level contact.

One thing I don't understand is the idea that MVW is exonerated somehow here because "we" own the resorts. Each Week "we" own represents something like 1/50-1/51-1/52 of a single unit at a single resort; MVW retains ownership of the common areas of the resorts. If the signage, lighting, pool areas, etc are in poor repair, that's a problem that should be more quickly escalated to the highest levels IMO.

Also IMO, when we're thinking about reporting deficiencies we shouldn't have to worry about other owners insinuating that we're being too picky or making mountains out of molehills.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'll give a different spin on this thread.

Yes, the resorts are aging, but I see overall improvement in terms of value. I've seen more activities added, fire pits added, corn hole and other games including bocce added. I've seen management be proactive in dealing with soft goods and making sure that furniture is replaced when necessary. ...

I agree that the trend toward increasing and upgrading the amenities across the resort portfolio is great - love to see busy and vibrant resorts! I also agree that seeing the soft/hard goods schedule rigorously maintained is excellent. But the recent style of refurb doesn't appeal very much to me and I'm already looking forward to the next trend. That's not a knock - even without liking the style I still recognize the quality.

 

[EducatedConsumer]

MVW retains ownership of the common areas of the resorts.

Really?

I've never known that to be true of the sold-out Marriott resorts.

I thought the ownership of a sold out Marriott resort was held by the timeshare owners.

If the Developer is holding onto a portion of the land, fixtures, etc, that is a new one to me.

Certainly, of the non-sold-out resorts, I understand that the Developer owns the unsold portion.

 

[dioxide45]

Really?

I've never known that to be true of the sold-out Marriott resorts.

I thought the ownership of a sold out Marriott resort was held by the timeshare owners.

If the Developer is holding onto a portion of the land, fixtures, etc, that is a new one to me.

Certainly, of the non-sold-out resorts, I understand that the Developer owns the unsold portion.

It was my understanding also that the HOA owned common areas. MVCI may retain ownership of retail and food service areas of which they retain profits derived from them. But the pools, hot tubs, gym, etc is owned by the HOA and the owners have to pay for their upkeep and maintenance.

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

I guess it is more of a glass half full vs glass half empty sort of thing?

I think the "retirement community" comment was related to the three Palms resorts at the World Center.

That is correct. My comment was pointed more at those particular properties.

Yes, the resorts are aging, but I see overall improvement in terms of value. I've seen more activities added, fire pits added, corn hole and other games including bocce added.

Personally, adding a fire pit and a bocce court does not replace the need to modernize some of these properties nor is it an excuse for them not doing so...Whether its simple things like modernizing lobbies and entrance signs, changing out the pool furniture and landscaping, or more complex things like refacing buildings with brick/cultured stone these things need to be done. We are not talking about a low end timeshare/vacation club system. Marriott still has (and deservedly so) a reputation of being a high end timeshare/vacation club system. I think they need to keep up with the times at some of the aging properties to maintain that image, particularly when they are pushing the DC system with points +/- $12 per point.