Questions about Scotland resort availability and HGVC weeks overall

[DallasLoneStar]

Hello all. Well have I been a busy boy the past week, not so productive at work but I have learned a lot about HGVC!

A main attraction for my wife is the fact that there are resorts in Scotland (she is a total anglophile). We would like to be able to stay there every 3-4 years or so, perhaps during Thanksgiving. Which brings my first question...

The actual weeks are very critical here for us to understand. Do they start on Saturdays or Sundays? From what I can tell, Saturday OR Sunday, out to 2023, Thanksgiving is week 47 which is the very last week of the silver season. It being a non-peak time, we are hopeful that we can use our points to get a lodge at Dunkeld or Craigendarroch.

Would any of you mind looking on the 17th/18th/19th (or would it be after the minimum three days or not because they only reserve by the week?) to see if there is availability there for 2BR or 3BR? Basically, whenever the day is when you would check for a week rental that would include this November 22.

I know there are no guarantees but my wife just is curious if, at the 9 month mark this year, there is totally nothing available or perhaps there are in fact a few openings. If there is nothing, we may still take our chances. But will feel a little more confident buying, knowing we checked and didn't have unrealistic expectations.

We are looking at a 5000 point Tuscany / I-drive platinum 1BR resale. Why not look at a Scotland resale? Well that seems to lead us down one of the HGVC rabbit holes. Basically, the silver season is too "cheap" where even a 3BR would only be 4100 points. We have figured out that for all other travel we really would like at least 5k points. You really do lose a LOT dropping to 4800 and then again to 4100/year. I know you can borrow but... then if you borrowed 900, you may not be able to do much with the 3200 left. Then again if doing a 5 day vacation to Orlando (we have two little kids) that may just be perfect so maybe its not the end of the world.

My second major question is this. There ACTUALLY IS a unit for sale now, Craigendarroch Silver 3BR 4100 points. Let's say I decide we could be ok with that point level. It IS the season we want. But from what I understand, Craigendarroch uses assigned weeks (the unit is week 5 by the way). To get your points, you just forfeit your fixed week. So, if I were to forfeit my week, would I then be able to book any other time within the silver season 12 months out? Or am I 9 months since this is now a club reservation?

I know this second issue is splitting hairs but its really critical for our choice to buy the 4100 point unit or not. Since we would definitely not want it if we are in line with everyone else to reserve in Scotland 9 months out (except for week 5 of course, which we are not very keen on). If we do buy it and all these technicalities work in my favor, we could for example in 2018 use this years points plus 900 from next year for a 5k point Orlando week in a 2BR. Wife and I could then maybe in 2019 do a 5 day vacation alone in a 1 BR with 3200 or less 2019 points . Then in late November 2019 we could forfeit our 2020 points and use all 4100 to book Thanksgiving week (47) in Scotland which would still be our "home" reservation.

But that all breaks down if either thanksgiving is week 48 (because I am somehow counting weeks wrong according to HGVC) or somewhat more likely, that I either have to wait until January 2020 to forfeit my week and get my points (so I am something like 10.5 months out, still ahead of the huddled masses LOL), and even more likely, if I have to wait until everyone else in late February to make a 9 month club reservation in Scotland for Thanksgiving week.

I know this was super long but didn't know how else to explain it. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide, either looking for Scotland availability, or with my niche questions about HGVC "home season" reservations for properties with actual assigned weeks.

 

[alwysonvac]

Sorry we don’t have online access to the resorts in Scotland. Don’t have any idea regarding availability. Maybe it would be easier to just rent when you want to stay.

http://www.higvc.co.uk/resorts

 

[alexb]

Craigendarroch is fixed weeks you can take the points and trade in at 9 months out.
I would say that the resort will be very quiet in November.

 

[Mosescan]

Hello all. Well have I been a busy boy the past week, not so productive at work but I have learned a lot about HGVC!

A main attraction for my wife is the fact that there are resorts in Scotland (she is a total anglophile). We would like to be able to stay there every 3-4 years or so, perhaps during Thanksgiving. Which brings my first question...

The actual weeks are very critical here for us to understand. Do they start on Saturdays or Sundays? From what I can tell, Saturday OR Sunday, out to 2023, Thanksgiving is week 47 which is the very last week of the silver season. It being a non-peak time, we are hopeful that we can use our points to get a lodge at Dunkeld or Craigendarroch.

Would any of you mind looking on the 17th/18th/19th (or would it be after the minimum three days or not because they only reserve by the week?) to see if there is availability there for 2BR or 3BR? Basically, whenever the day is when you would check for a week rental that would include this November 22.

I know there are no guarantees but my wife just is curious if, at the 9 month mark this year, there is totally nothing available or perhaps there are in fact a few openings. If there is nothing, we may still take our chances. But will feel a little more confident buying, knowing we checked and didn't have unrealistic expectations.

We are looking at a 5000 point Tuscany / I-drive platinum 1BR resale. Why not look at a Scotland resale? Well that seems to lead us down one of the HGVC rabbit holes. Basically, the silver season is too "cheap" where even a 3BR would only be 4100 points. We have figured out that for all other travel we really would like at least 5k points. You really do lose a LOT dropping to 4800 and then again to 4100/year. I know you can borrow but... then if you borrowed 900, you may not be able to do much with the 3200 left. Then again if doing a 5 day vacation to Orlando (we have two little kids) that may just be perfect so maybe its not the end of the world.

My second major question is this. There ACTUALLY IS a unit for sale now, Craigendarroch Silver 3BR 4100 points. Let's say I decide we could be ok with that point level. It IS the season we want. But from what I understand, Craigendarroch uses assigned weeks (the unit is week 5 by the way). To get your points, you just forfeit your fixed week. So, if I were to forfeit my week, would I then be able to book any other time within the silver season 12 months out? Or am I 9 months since this is now a club reservation?

I know this second issue is splitting hairs but its really critical for our choice to buy the 4100 point unit or not. Since we would definitely not want it if we are in line with everyone else to reserve in Scotland 9 months out (except for week 5 of course, which we are not very keen on). If we do buy it and all these technicalities work in my favor, we could for example in 2018 use this years points plus 900 from next year for a 5k point Orlando week in a 2BR. Wife and I could then maybe in 2019 do a 5 day vacation alone in a 1 BR with 3200 or less 2019 points . Then in late November 2019 we could forfeit our 2020 points and use all 4100 to book Thanksgiving week (47) in Scotland which would still be our "home" reservation.

But that all breaks down if either thanksgiving is week 48 (because I am somehow counting weeks wrong according to HGVC) or somewhat more likely, that I either have to wait until January 2020 to forfeit my week and get my points (so I am something like 10.5 months out, still ahead of the huddled masses LOL), and even more likely, if I have to wait until everyone else in late February to make a 9 month club reservation in Scotland for Thanksgiving week.

I know this was super long but didn't know how else to explain it. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide, either looking for Scotland availability, or with my niche questions about HGVC "home season" reservations for properties with actual assigned weeks.

I own a couple of weeks at Craigendarroch and am currently buying 2 more. My wife and I stayed there this fall and had a great time. It is a nice lodge in the heart of the highlands. I will try and answer your questions as best as I can.

The first thing you need to do is go to www.craigendarroch.co.uk This website is run by owners for owners. If you look there you will find someone giving away a 2BR week 47 and a 2 BR week 48. There is also a week 47 3 BR for sale. If you want that week then the best thing to do is buy that week! Then you are guaranteed the week you want. If you want points for trading into other properties for other vacations then I would suggest that you buy a second week in a 3 BR platinum. this will give you extra points for travel. There are lots listed for sale on that site and the maintenance fees are reasonable as long as the exchange rate stays favourable. I'm Canadian so I get screwed with exchange no matter where in HGVC I own!

There is a weeks chart on this website.

1. Some lodges start on Sat and some on Sun. They tried to divide it up to make it easier for housekeeping.

2. I'm not sure if you could book 12 months out, but that would be my educated guess. I think it is irrelevant as when we went this fall I booked about a week out using open season and paid cash. It's silver season for a reason as it is not a high demand season. That being said, we stayed in the suites not the lodges. A lot of the lodges are owned by locals who do use their weeks every year. Hence the reason I say it is best to own the actual week you want and then get an extra platinum week for trading points.

3. To trade your owned week for points you can call HGVC as early as Jan 1 the year previous, ie call Jan 1, 2018 to trade in 2019 points. You can trade your owned week as late as 31 days before your start date for your week. Once you have traded in your points you can book anywhere during any season. Your season of ownership only counts if you are trying to book a home week reservation at your owned resort. Then you must book the type of unit you own in the season you own it and for the full 7 days. This would use your full allotment of points for that unit. Anything else is a club booking and has to be 9 months or less (some resorts are 6 months and NYC is 45 days). A club booking can be for any unit in any season that you have the points for but must be a minimum of 3 nights. Anything under 30 days can be open season and you can pay cash rates but must be min 2 nights.

I personally believe points are power. If you can afford the maintenance fees of owning several units than you can be much more flexible in the high demand areas. Hawaii is a good example. Last year when I only owned 5000 points I booked 2 weeks at the HHV about 6 weeks in advance and supplemented with some open season cash bookings as well. I was able to get a full 1 nights but got 8 nights on my 5000 points and 5 nights on cash. We stayed in 5 different rooms over the two weeks so as you can imagine there was a lot of packing up and moving around. A bit of a hassle but we still got to spend 2 weeks in Hawaii. This year, now owning significantly more points I could book the same trip and be in the same unit for at least a week so I might have to move once. The difference is they are much higher point units that I couldn't "afford" last year. I'm actually spending a week at Kingsland and a week at HHV in April.

I hope this helps.

Cheers and have fun in Scotland

 

[DallasLoneStar]

Wow, I can't thank you all enough for this information! So very helpful.

Looks like we are putting in our offer today for Intl Drive 1BR platinum 4800 points. Its for $800 but first usage is not until 2019 so ROFR has at least a slim chance.

If that doesn't go through, we will look into some of the Craigendarroch options. I have already emailed one of the owners.

alwysonvac, thank you for that link. I first thought those screenshots were from the owner's site for the Open Season. However I clicked your link and it seemed like I could just pay and get a res?! The rates were super low, am I missing something (other than having to pay for electricity, etc)?

 

[Mosescan]

You’re not missing anything. The rates are low because demand is low. Check the rates in July an August and you’ll see what I mean.

 

[DallasLoneStar]

Ok... its funny, seems like it may not be a good use of points to book there in off season. We could rent our home week and even getting $150/night (1BR Platinum at I-Drive) that would more than cover a cash rental for one of the 2BR Scotland properties for a week!! At today's rates, a 2BR for a week would be about $790.

 

[Mosescan]

There are lots of ways to work the system. Everyone looks at things differently. Some would say better to use points and get more vacation time. You could maybe get two weeks instead of one. Maybe not great to own as you don’t get a lot of points but cheap to book if you own somewhere with more points.

 

[DallasLoneStar]

Thanks for all your help everyone. We have submitted a contract! Fingers crossed it will be approved.

 

[DallasLoneStar]

Failed ROFR in less than 24 hours! The search continues.

 

[alwysonvac]

Ok... its funny, seems like it may not be a good use of points to book there in off season. We could rent our home week and even getting $150/night (1BR Platinum at I-Drive) that would more than cover a cash rental for one of the 2BR Scotland properties for a week!! At today's rates, a 2BR for a week would be about $790.

Yeah wanted to make sure you knew that option.

Whatever you decide, don't put all of your future vacation dollars into timesharing. This will give you the flexibility in the future to choose the best way to visit your desired destinations. There might not be a timeshare at the location that you want to visit or if there is a timeshare it may be very hard to get an exchange. You may also want to visit a destination in an entirely different way via a cruise, hotel/resort stay, special discounted travel package, tour company, beach house rental, etc.

 

[DallasLoneStar]

That is great advice, thank you.

 

[DannyTS]

You’re not missing anything. The rates are low because demand is low. Check the rates in July an August and you’ll see what I mean.

I am looking at this as an option for some HGVC points. Seeing the number of people trying to sell on the owners' website it makes me pause. Why is the number so high? Is there also a risk that Hilton may cancel the contract with the resort?

 

[PigsDad]

I am looking at this as an option for some HGVC points. Seeing the number of people trying to sell on the owners' website it makes me pause. Why is the number so high? Is there also a risk that Hilton may cancel the contract with the resort?

There's always people looking to sell for one reason or another -- I wouldn't read too much into that. And I think it is extremely unlikely that HGVC would ever cut their ties with the Scotland properties. There has only been one resort in the 13 years I have been an owner that has been cut from the HGVC fold, and that was a small SW Florida property where most of the owners were never HGVC members in the first place (certainly not the case for the Scotland resorts). And when that happened, the HGVC owners at that resort continued to be HGVC members, and effectively nothing changed for them. It was just that any new owners were not given the option to join HGVC with their newly-purchased week.

Kurt

 

[DannyTS]

There's always people looking to sell for one reason or another -- I wouldn't read too much into that. And I think it is extremely unlikely that HGVC would ever cut their ties with the Scotland properties. There has only been one resort in the 13 years I have been an owner that has been cut from the HGVC fold, and that was a small SW Florida property where most of the owners were never HGVC members in the first place (certainly not the case for the Scotland resorts). And when that happened, the HGVC owners at that resort continued to be HGVC members, and effectively nothing changed for them. It was just that any new owners were not given the option to join HGVC with their newly-purchased week.

Kurt

thank you for your answer. At the first glance it did not look good, I had never seen so many listings for a resort.

 

[danor71]

There does seem to be a lot of sellers for a lot less than the $1/pt. Does seem strange...

 

[Pathways]

I am looking at this as an option for some HGVC points. Seeing the number of people trying to sell on the owners' website it makes me pause. Why is the number so high? Is there also a risk that Hilton may cancel the contract with the resort?

'High number" depends on your definition. There are less than 70 for sale, which I think calculates to well less than 2%. (and I believe this is the main site for listings). I was guided a few years back by some upper level management honchos who told me sellers needed to be above 10% before it would raise any concerns. YMMV.

Also note there are only 23 platinum resales, and anything less than platinum should be pretty much a giveaway, especially at that location.

As far as the resort staying in the system, remember, there are two resorts sold at Craigendarroch. The Lodges, (which are weeks and you can elect points), and the Suites. The Suites were just built (a hotel remodel), sold as 'points only" and they just sold out a year or two ago. In fact, resales on the suites are so new, it took HGVC over six months after closing to finish the transfer because they hadn't transferred a resale at that location yet and there were a few kinks in the process that had to be worked out between the US and the UK. (I had a purchase along with two other buyers at the same time)

 

[Mosescan]

'High number" depends on your definition. There are less than 70 for sale, which I think calculates to well less than 2%. (and I believe this is the main site for listings). I was guided a few years back by some upper level management honchos who told me sellers needed to be above 10% before it would raise any concerns. YMMV.

Also note there are only 23 platinum resales, and anything less than platinum should be pretty much a giveaway, especially at that location.

As far as the resort staying in the system, remember, there are two resorts sold at Craigendarroch. The Lodges, (which are weeks and you can elect points), and the Suites. The Suites were just built (a hotel remodel), sold as 'points only" and they just sold out a year or two ago. In fact, resales on the suites are so new, it took HGVC over six months after closing to finish the transfer because they hadn't transferred a resale at that location yet and there were a few kinks in the process that had to be worked out between the US and the UK. (I had a purchase along with two other buyers at the same time)

There really is a pretty low percentage for sale.

98 lodges x 52 weeks = 5096 owners. If there are 70 for sale that would be 1.37%.

A lot of the ads I saw for people selling were people who just couldn’t use their weeks any more. I get the feeling that most of the owners there actually use their weeks and trading into the HGVC system is more the exception than the rule. There are several North American owners like myself who simply bought for the points and low maint fees but I think we are in the minority.

 

[silentg]

I’m confused, have you been to Scotland before? You are trying to buy at a remote resort?
We thought of visiting Craigendarroch, but husband thought too far out of main cities.
We will look for Glasgow area on our fist visit. Not going to buy, we own a week in Ireland, will try to combine a week in Scotland one time to have a longer vacation. We took a trip to Ireland the year before we bought our week. I hope you will rent first, and buy later. You will have a better perspective of Scotland and will make a more informed choice.
Silentg

 

[DannyTS]

I w

I’m confused, have you been to Scotland before? You are trying to buy at a remote resort?
We thought of visiting Craigendarroch, but husband thought too far out of main cities.
We will look for Glasgow area on our fist visit. Not going to buy, we own a week in Ireland, will try to combine a week in Scotland one time to have a longer vacation. We took a trip to Ireland the year before we bought our week. I hope you will rent first, and buy later. You will have a better perspective of Scotland and will make a more informed choice.
Silentg

I have not been to Scotland before. I would like to visit but i would buy mainly for the HGVC system. I am trying to assess if this is a good idea.