Owner's update nightmare

[smrider419]

Hi, I am new to TUG. Can anyone give me insight on the high pressure scare tactics at the owner update meetings. I purchased 112,000 Wyndham points based in Patriot's Place, Williamsburg, VA. from a private owner in 2009. I take my mother annually to Williamsburg and we love the timeshare. Having been on timeshare presentation over the years but never purchasing, i saw the benefits of timesharing but was unconvinced of the value for cost offered at the developer's price. I have been stupidly attending the owner update meetings since 2009 being fully subjected to the wrath of the Williamsburg sales manager who makes it clear i am the enemy in their elite system as a resale owner because i did not pay full price.

My points are based on a spring week in the Fairshare Plus system.
THis year was another nightmare. We spoke to Claudia at the owner update-sales presentation in Williamsburg. I have been offered over the years to buy more points for $12,000 or more. This year they again told me my week is worthless since it is based on a spring week. The Wyndham inventory is changing to the points system and my points as fixed points will be put into a pot that will have fewer options and eventually no options to rent a better week. After all i am only putting in a spring week in trade. My bottom line was i am not walking out of this door with $12,000 dollars of debt, obligation to higher maintenance fees and ownership of an additional worthless timeshare week at Patriots Place. A male manager came by and after he left Claudia did clarify that i still own 112,000 points that i can continue to use to make reservations in the Wyndham system as i have been. It seems to me that Wyndham has targeted previous owners into high pressure tactics to get them buying their unnecessary points to keep afloat in the down economy. I do not fully understand how this works. If all current owners convert to points is it true that i will eventually have very limited options and then only my spring week to use my outdated Fairshare Plus Points based on a fixed week?

My mother is a coowner and is totally spooked and scared enough to purchase their nonsense. Can anyone give me insight on this? Does anyone else have nightmare experiences like this? I saw the post about never going to another presentation. I do not know much about timeshares and hoped to learn more about it but the pressure and outright rudeness is ridiculous.

Please help,
Shawn

 

[rrlongwell]

I would not panic yet. They are probably talking about ARP rights. It has started showing up in sales pitches by implications, etc. that the ARP rights might be going away. That may or may not be right. An underlying week converted to points is what it sounds like you have. In that case, you have underlying ARP rights for that week. The seperate pot that was being referenced is probably the current Wyndham Cub Plus system and the new pot is probably Club Wynhdam ACCESS program. As underlying deeds go to the ACCESS program, I do not know what the impact will be on the remaining converted weeks and UDI deeds. The impact, if any, is long term and not worth worrying about at this point. Thanks for the update from Williamsburg. I would still attend their presentations, as an owner, I am always interested in hearing what the current company line is. As for the rudeness, that is an acceptable tactic within the Wyndham Sales network. I have thick skin and it just bounces off when it occurs.

 

[smrider419]

thanks

An underlying week converted to points is what it sounds like you have. In that case, you have underlying ARP rights for that week. The seperate pot that was being referenced is probably the current Wyndham Cub Plus system and the new pot is probably Club Wyndham ACCESS program. As underlying deeds go to the ACCESS program, I do not know what the impact will be on the remaining converted weeks and UDI deeds. The impact, if any, is long term and not worth worrying about at this point. Thanks for the update from Williamsburg. I would still attend their presentations, as an owner, I am always interested in hearing what the current company line is. As for the rudeness, that is an acceptable tactic within the Wyndham Sales network. I have thick skin and it just bounces off when it occurs.

Thanks for the insight, yes i have a fixed week converted to Fairshare Plus points. i did not even pay attention what the underlying week was when i purchased. I assumed points are points. Yes the pot is referring to moving weeks from the Wyndham Club Plus system which she said i am not even truly in since my points are Fairshare Plus to the Club Wyndham ACCESS program. She wanted me to believe that even for next year i would revert to my underlying week and not have points. The manager seemed to indicate she needed to clarify this and that is when she agreed that i still own 112,000 points to use in the system as i have been. I don't own many points and do not try to get into high demand areas. Williamsburg seems available whenever we want to travel. I agree I need to develop thicker skin! I also need a muzzle for my mother!

 

[rrlongwell]

... I also need a muzzle for my mother!

Be nice to mom, the sales reps deserve her anger since that is the game they are playing. Williamsburg is a great place and I have had absolutly no problem getting in when I want. Patriot's Place and Kingsgate are the easyiest. The newer one gets booked up now and again.

 

[bnoble]

Points *are* points. The various flavors (Access vs. UDI vs. a converted fixed week) only impact Advanced Reservation Priority. 999 times out of 1000, ARP doesn't matter.

Continue to use your points and enjoy them, and stop going to "owner's updates".

 

[ronandjoan]

Hi Shawn
I feel your pain!
So sorry you had to experience this, we have also experienced it and always vow NEVER TO RETURN. Then, my husband says, “Oh, Susie [parking pass girl] wants us to go, why don’t we go….?” I say, “You do NOT have a relationship with Susie. She is only interested in your $$.”
We continue to hesitate to go because every time we go, we are told that our points are no good! Sound familiar? Or one of our contracts is messed up, or that the PIC program is gone, or that our resale points no good, you need to lower your maintenance fees by buying here at our resort and transferring all your contracts to here, with an additional purchase, of course, or even, “Why NO ONE goes to Orlando any more, Bonnet Creek is worthless, everyone comes to [our]resort, it’s the number one tourist attraction in the USA, not Orlando.” Oh yeah, sure.
It sounds like you have exactly what you want and are able to use it as you want. Great! Forget about going to the updates or surveys…say No as much as you are able then unplug your phone in your unit. It’s certainly not worth the hassle and anxiety?

 

[timeos2]

Hi, I am new to TUG. Can anyone give me insight on the high pressure scare tactics at the owner update meetings. I purchased 112,000 Wyndham points based in Patriot's Place, Williamsburg, VA. from a private owner in 2009. I take my mother annually to Williamsburg and we love the timeshare. Having been on timeshare presentation over the years but never purchasing, i saw the benefits of timesharing but was unconvinced of the value for cost offered at the developer's price. I have been stupidly attending the owner update meetings since 2009 being fully subjected to the wrath of the Williamsburg sales manager who makes it clear i am the enemy in their elite system as a resale owner because i did not pay full price.

My points are based on a spring week in the Fairshare Plus system.
THis year was another nightmare. We spoke to Claudia at the owner update-sales presentation in Williamsburg. I have been offered over the years to buy more points for $12,000 or more. This year they again told me my week is worthless since it is based on a spring week. The Wyndham inventory is changing to the points system and my points as fixed points will be put into a pot that will have fewer options and eventually no options to rent a better week. After all i am only putting in a spring week in trade. My bottom line was i am not walking out of this door with $12,000 dollars of debt, obligation to higher maintenance fees and ownership of an additional worthless timeshare week at Patriots Place. A male manager came by and after he left Claudia did clarify that i still own 112,000 points that i can continue to use to make reservations in the Wyndham system as i have been. It seems to me that Wyndham has targeted previous owners into high pressure tactics to get them buying their unnecessary points to keep afloat in the down economy. I do not fully understand how this works. If all current owners convert to points is it true that i will eventually have very limited options and then only my spring week to use my outdated Fairshare Plus Points based on a fixed week?

My mother is a coowner and is totally spooked and scared enough to purchase their nonsense. Can anyone give me insight on this? Does anyone else have nightmare experiences like this? I saw the post about never going to another presentation. I do not know much about timeshares and hoped to learn more about it but the pressure and outright rudeness is ridiculous.

Please help,
Shawn

150% sales BS! IGNORE IT ALL! What you own from resale is what you own - it will not change. Simply ignore this - assuming you / your mom didn't actually purchase, if you did RESCIND - and NEVER attend another "update" or any "survey". It is all sales - it is all nonsense & if you get roped in you'll be paying far too much for what you already own forever.

Ignore it - tell your mom it's nonsense & sleep well. And please don't ever listen to anymore of the sales weasel BS.

 

[Cheryl20772]

Thanks for the insight, yes i have a fixed week converted to Fairshare Plus points. i did not even pay attention what the underlying week was when i purchased. I assumed points are points. Yes the pot is referring to moving weeks from the Wyndham Club Plus system which she said i am not even truly in since my points are Fairshare Plus to the Club Wyndham ACCESS program. She wanted me to believe that even for next year i would revert to my underlying week and not have points. The manager seemed to indicate she needed to clarify this and that is when she agreed that i still own 112,000 points to use in the system as i have been. I don't own many points and do not try to get into high demand areas. Williamsburg seems available whenever we want to travel. I agree I need to develop thicker skin! I also need a muzzle for my mother!

People who own Club Windham Access don't own at a single resort, but rather own right to share a pool of resorts for advanced reservation priority and for shared maintenance fees. At 10 months, before a stay, their usage is the same as all Club Wyndham owners. Access might be what Wyndham will be in the far future, but it won't be all Access for a long time. What matters to you and your use is what is in your contract. As long as you are paying your Club Wyndham program fee and maintenance fees, you have a right to use the points to make reservations where you can find availability.

If no one assumed the TS resale units contracts that retail purchasing owners don't want anymore, what would happen to the condition of all the resorts?

Wyndham's main answer to the question of 'what do I do with this TS when I can't use it anymore' is to 'let the kids inherit it'. When the kids don't want it, it's worth almost nothing on the resale market. When they tell resale owners that their points are useless, they further devalue what they are trying to sell. A good reply to Wyndham is why would anyone want to buy something for tens of thousands of dollars, that can't be sold later to at least recover the initial value and you are now telling me it's worth even less? Then get out of there.

You won't learn much at these "update" meetings. Most important stuff is announced and chewed over in the forum here. Why not save yourself and Mom a lot of bad feelings by staying away from Wyndham updates? Just say no and unplug the phone.

 

[Rob&Carol Q]

haha...just shaking my head, I feel your pain.

Personally, I own @Kingsgate...like the resort, love the area, go there about every third year. Jamestown, Yorktown, Williamsburg...what more could a history buff want?

Sales...man, lot's of stories here. Weasels, every last one of them.

My "Week" is an early Spring week as well...but the points have taken me to several resorts throughout the Wyndham system. It's all about the number of point you are swinging and when you want to go. Obviously more are better and the high demand resorts fill quickly...no shock there.

You want shock? Do an eBay search for Wyndham Timeshare Points and be amazed at the ultra low cost. No joke here, 112k points @Patriot's Place can be had for less than $750 if you hurry, maybe $250 if you are careful, maybe even utterly free if you get lucky. Both prices seem better than the $12,000 they were asking from you...at least to me.

Remember one thing though...Maintenance Fees are forever...

 

[UWSurfer]

It's a simple principle...if you are an owner you are known qualified buyer as you bought previously, regardless how you bought before.

Therefore you are a target for additional sales.

 

[smrider419]

Thanks for explaining the ACCESS points. And thanks to all for the reassurance that this was all sales hype. Points are points and i gather that i can rest easy in not going along with the pressure to buy at full price. They also tell me that no owners pay maintenance fees because if they bought from Wyndham they can use the rental program to recoup their fees. I doubt that this is true. Any insight on this argument?

 

[timeos2]

Thanks for explaining the ACCESS points. And thanks to all for the reassurance that this was all sales hype. Points are points and i gather that i can rest easy in not going along with the pressure to buy at full price. They also tell me that no owners pay maintenance fees because if they bought from Wyndham they can use the rental program to recoup their fees. I doubt that this is true. Any insight on this argument?

Plenty. If it were true Wyndham would never try to sell a point as they would make far more renting. It is yet another fast talking way of getting yo to pay money upfront to "pay no fees". Of course they ignore that actually renting the points for profit is far from a guaranteed project - and involves discounted points meaning last minute reservations that are the hardest to rent. Plus they conveniently ignore the thousands or tens of thousands they expect you to pay upfront - money you will NEVER recover (see the resale value of points on virtually any resale offer site including TUG) - so the bottom line, as usual, is you lose - the weasel wins!

Don't listen to one distorted and misrepresented word they say. It is ALL lies. Period. You as an owner are under no obligation to attend any update or answer any survey, etc. Just say NO - as loud as necessary and unplug the phone. Your Mom too. Ignore them.

 

[rrlongwell]

... I doubt that this is true. Any insight on this argument?

They are referring to the Extra Holidays program or some locations push you buy then the sales person will act as your rental agent. The latter, I do not believe is authorized. The system is he manages your accout, his wife (an attorney) rents to European customers. Regarding the former, the following is a link to the Wynhdam page that explains their program. I do not know if you can cover maintance fees or not. I have not tried their program. I believe it would be iffy. If I ever went that way, I would try one or two at a time then go from there.

http://ehowners.com/

Regarding: "They also tell me that no owners pay maintenance fees because if they bought from Wyndham they can use the rental program to recoup their fees": This one keeps getting better and better, while it very well may be true that the Rental Arm of Wynhdam is getting the priority through the Rental Group, There are owners that pay maintainance fees. I am one.

 

[bnoble]

If it were true Wyndham would never try to sell a point as they would make far more renting.

Exactly. Remember: there is no free lunch. Some people do own more than they use, and they personally rent some out to cover the costs of the rest. It takes a lot of work, and many who try do not succeed in recovering their costs. It's more than "just a hobby" at that point as well.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I recently had a lovely night where a former top TS salesman for the Wyndham points system called 25+ times to a friend of mine while she spent 5 hours locating paperwork, explaining the history, the court appearances, his badgering and haunting her to two uniformed sheriff's officiers in her condo between midnight and 5AM. His last phone call to her cell at 4:45AM had the sargeant identifying himself, annoucing the arrest warrent issued for him for multiple volaitions of the restraining order issued several weeks earlier in front of Judge ABC for his personal visit at her condo hottub that evening and the 25+ repeated phone calls while the police took her and her other witness's statements (not me).

As a former top salesman with Wyndham, he let his finely tuned skills of being a closer on these high dollar vacation products turn this into a positive experience. He appearred at her condo's door 15 hours later .... to continue his well practice banter. She called the police again.

Thanks to TUG, I was NOT in attendance for the 2nd experience as I simply chose NOT to attend - skipping a free meal and fine wine in favor of keeping my sanity and having a quiet afternoon and evening.

Ruthless! Threatening! Self-centered! Badgering! Belittling! Lying! Screamed at! I rather enjoy my limited vacation time without any of these types of experiences.

 

[rrlongwell]

I hope is former Top Saleman status is "former" because Wyndham figured this out and he is not a salesman at all for them.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I hope is former Top Saleman status is "former" because Wyndham figured this out and he is not a salesman at all for them.

Robert,
I got an earful two (2) days earlier 2 ladies working at the Guest Services giving out Parking Passes ranted for 45-60 minutes as to his 15-20 phone calls a DAY to them, asking if the sales staff on the 9th floor was hiring, how were sales going, who is working upstairs, etc. The Guest Services staff was spending time every day begging the Front Desk personnel to NOT TRANSFER his calls over to their phones.

Personally, I bet he gets his job back. With that level of stupid, he was still a very high closer as he never back down.

 

[bnoble]

You know what they say: "Coffee's for closers."

 

[rrlongwell]

Robert,
I got an earful two (2) days earlier 2 ladies working at the Guest Services giving out Parking Passes ranted for 45-60 minutes as to his 15-20 phone calls a DAY to them, asking if the sales staff on the 9th floor was hiring, how were sales going, who is working upstairs, etc. The Guest Services staff was spending time every day begging the Front Desk personnel to NOT TRANSFER his calls over to their phones.

Personally, I bet he gets his job back. With that level of stupid, he was still a very high closer as he never back down.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Tia]

Using Extra Holidays to rent your timeshare will also cost you ~ 40% of the rental income, if it rents, at my resort.