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Overpricing Ts

P

pointsjunkie

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after looking at the prices for wsj and the rumored prices for aruba which are exorbitant do you think starwood has overpriced the ts more than the market will allow? they are very late in entering the ts market in aruba, the need is not there, there are so many ts's there already. the competitor, marriott's prices are not that high.so i wonder what they are thinking. i don't see how they think they can ask crazy prices for a place that has an abundance of ts's.
we'll see.:crash:
 
I was actually MORE shocked at the prices of the new Marriott March Island property.
 
The WSJ has been a very pricey timeshare since the beginning of the 90's.

As to an overabundance, St. John has the WSJ and a place called Sunset Ridge which is a set of 6 condo's on a hill with a decent pool as the sole amenity. Pretty much a monopoly on what many consider to be the nicest island in the Caribbean.

On islands like St. Thomas or Aruba, the Marriotts are super pricey compared to other slightly lower (but still quality) local TS like the Wyndhams, Divi, etc.

But, evidently, top quality commands a big premium which many are willing to spend. And sales figures tell it all, each quarter, record sales figures are posted by Starwood and Marriott.
 
There are plenty of WSJ resales out there. A local Real Estate company on St John had an amazing amount of listings for WSJ (many more than the total from various TS sellers on the internet), but they do not advertise on the web (???) - knowing STJ - this shouldn't surprise me.

As to the price of the new WSJ BV units - yes, they are very pricing (and a Voluntary resort to boot) - but there are a lot of rich folks out there who don't seem to care about paying lots of $$$ for a week (these are not LOs). One guy wrote to me asking about a purchase that he had just made there (was ~$90K!!!) - I told him to reconsider, rescind, and buy resale, but he wanted the unit and the week.

As to Aruba - I do not see the appeal (from what I have read only... never been there), but from what I have researched about Aruba - we will stick with STJ (if I want to go to a casino - there is always Vegas).
 
When I was discussing Maui timeshares with the Marriott rep, I inquired about the likelihood of getting trades into places like Aruba. He said that if I was used to the multitude of activities available on Maui, Aruba would invariably be a let down. Said that basically it was a desert island and that once you got outside of the resort area, it was bare and ugly.

And this from a guy who was trying to sell me on it.
 
LisaRex said:
He said that if I was used to the multitude of activities available on Maui, Aruba would invariably be a let down. Said that basically it was a desert island and that once you got outside of the resort area, it was bare and ugly.
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I have even heard this about Aruba from Marriott owners.

I have never been there, thus I don't have first hand knowledge.
 
Aruba is by far our favorite place to vacation. We'd go every single year if we could. Have stayed at various resorts on Eagle and Palm beach and we've been very happy with anything that we're able to pull from II. It's a beautiful island with great food, warm friendly people, and you can't beat the color of the aqua blue water. Can't get enough of it JMHO of course!! :cheer:
 
My business partner owns three weeks at the Marriotts in Aruba. The reason? A basic guarantee of good weather! Outside the hurricaine belt, it is always warm with a refreshing breeze. We went once and loved it.

That said, it's no Hawaii, but Hawaii is a tough annual trip from the East coast.
 
Aruba has a dry climate (~82F) and an arid, cactus-strewn landscape. It has a land area of 75 square miles (~10% is arable) and is renowned for its white, sandy beaches on the southwest side of the island.

Again - to each his/her own - Aruba sounds nice if you stay at the resort. Islands like Maui and St John are also nice if you leave the resort.
 
Actually we always venture out of the resort in Aruba We rent a car and explore each of the resorts on the island, go downtown, go to different restaurant every night or just walk around outside, it's extremely safe. Visually it's not a lush/green island, but we are drawn there because of the relaxed atmosphere, beaches, weather etc. My airfare from the East Coast was $389 round trip for next May. As said it's different from Hawaii (I've been there too) but still as beautiful. Going to Maui next July on Marriott Reward points, it's very expensive for us to fly from the East Coast so we're grateful to have enough points to get us there.
 
susiequeve said:
Actually we always venture out of the resort in Aruba We rent a car and explore each of the resorts on the island, go downtown, go to different restaurant every night or just walk around outside, it's extremely safe. Visually it's not a lush/green island, but we are drawn there because of the relaxed atmosphere, beaches, weather etc. My airfare from the East Coast was $389 round trip for next May. As said it's different from Hawaii (I've been there too) but still as beautiful. Going to Maui next July on Marriott Reward points, it's very expensive for us to fly from the East Coast so we're grateful to have enough points to get us there.
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I wasn't trying to imply that Aruba isn't nice (I have heard it is great from a resort perspective), but it is a resort-centric island - and that can be a great experience if that is what the visitor wants (Aruba obviously supplies this...). The opposite can be true for an island like St John - people looking for resort-life may not be happy on St John because it doesn't necessarily supply that. STJ is 2/3 National Park - so many of the activities involve things like hiking, and being out and about all over the island. If I were going only to stay at WSJ - I would not own there. I think that this is the main reason some people give WSJ poor reviews - because they go there expecting a 'resort' environment and end up being disappointed.
 
Aruba, St. Thomas/John, and St. Maartin are all very different yet all are wonderful destinations. Aruba may be more desert like but it still has a lot of off the path activities to pursue.

I do think the hotels in the high rise area are too clumped together, and that leads to beach crowding and even chair fighting :) But the sales continue at a record rate for Marriott.

The lack of a hurricane season (last major hit 55 years ago) makes Aruba very compelling for the fall.
 
One interesting fact about Aruba is that it has more repeat visitors than any other island in the caribbean.
 
​
Overpricing timeshares -Yes -Yes -Yes the Prices are simply getting to the point where there are other options for the highest price catagories.#1Renting anywhere you want.#2 Destination clubs, Steamboat Bill's board has lots of great stuff if your spending top end TS money. #3 Residence clubs for the price of a few top TS weeks you can own one of these. The sales pressure at TS sales preveiws is still very high with some of these newest units going for well over 30,000 Is no wonder the market is flooded with rental and resales. There are more Harboside( super expensive and high maintance fees) units for sale /rent than ever before. Yet another High end desert resort (V) you got to be kidding me Starwood (Ask Mission Hills owners about resales). I'm sure Aruba will be succsessfull but count me out.
 
DavidnRobin said:
There are plenty of WSJ resales out there. A local Real Estate company on St John had an amazing amount of listings for WSJ (many more than the total from various TS sellers on the internet), but they do not advertise on the web (???) - knowing STJ - this shouldn't surprise me.
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The only real estate agent I visited had 3 full pages of WSJ weeks for sale by owner (1br, 2br & 3br)
 
gmarine said:
One interesting fact about Aruba is that it has more repeat visitors than any other island in the caribbean.
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... brought to you by the tourism board of Aruba... :D

How is this calculated against an island like STJ that has very limited hotels or TS resorts - as compared to an island like Aruba (that is mostly resorts), or even other large islands with a plethoria of hotels and resorts (e.g. PR, Jamaica)?

...watch out for statistics...
 
Transit said:
Airfair to Aruba seems to be consistently high.
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True, at least from the Midwest. Next week we're leaving for a long weekend (5 days/4 nights) for just the two of us. When I was planning the trip back in August, my first choice was Aruba, based on the reco of some friends and the fact that I have enough Marriott points to get the hotel room for free. However, the airfare was $700+. Worse, the travel times were horrible. Getting there was okay, with a short layover in Atlanta. However, the return trip was (and I do not jest) 23 HOURS. No thanks.

Given how much closer geographically we are to the islands of the Caribbean and Aruba, I'd rather travel there than Hawaii. But the airlines don't make it easy on us. Airfare and travel times are much more reasonable going all the way to Hawaii. Weird.
 
Back to the OP's original question

pointsjunkie said:
after looking at the prices for wsj and the rumored prices for aruba which are exorbitant do you think starwood has overpriced the ts more than the market will allow?
Click to expand...

Back to the OP's original question

The pricing is definitely pushing the envelope, although I'm guessing most of the pricing was determined prior to the housing bust, and they're not about to swallow their pride and reprice them (just offer more SPG points). Not only are the purchase prices high, but the maintenance fees are also rather outlandish. But as DavidnRobin said, someone will buy them eventually (the master plan is to have WSJ's BV units sold out in 7 years).

From what I understand Marriott, Hyatt and Starwood timeshare sales are all struggling of late, however we don't know how much is due to the housing bubble and how much is due to overpricing.


On another note, I think WSJ is the first time Westin has built 3br units (which Marriott has had pretty good success with) while the Westin can't give them away (those were the exact words from the sales guy). They are converting two hotel rooms into a 2br unit and 2 1/2 hotel rooms into a 3br unit, so based on floor space, a 3br should be at least 25% more than a 2br (in both cost and maint fees), but the pricing of a 3br is 10-20% more than a 2br (depending on the season). I'm guessing one big driver with Marriott's success vs Westin, is that Marriott targets families more, while Westin targets a two income one kid demographic.
 
Kazakie said:
From what I understand Marriott, Hyatt and Starwood timeshare sales are all struggling of late, however we don't know how much is due to the housing bubble and how much is due to overpricing.
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What's your source on this? I'm not doubting you--I'm just curious.

Glorian
 
DavidnRobin said:
... brought to you by the tourism board of Aruba... :D

How is this calculated against an island like STJ that has very limited hotels or TS resorts - as compared to an island like Aruba (that is mostly resorts), or even other large islands with a plethoria of hotels and resorts (e.g. PR, Jamaica)?

...watch out for statistics...
Click to expand...

Not brought to me by the tourism board. From the book Fieldings Caribbean and the stats have also been in Travel Weeky which is a publication for travel agents.

Its calculated by the highest percentage of repeat visitors. That is the percentage of visitors in a given year who have previously visited the island.
 
gmarine said:
Not brought to me by the tourism board. From the book Fieldings Caribbean and the stats have also been in Travel Weeky which is a publication for travel agents.

Its calculated by the highest percentage of repeat visitors. That is the percentage of visitors in a given year who have previously visited the island.
Click to expand...

Sorry - I was kidding (thus the laughing head) - my point was about stats (of which I work with on a daily basis) - and 'resort' islands vs. non-resort islands. With 'resort' islands the type to have return visitors. I am positive Aruba has the highest percentage of return visitors from those who measure such things. I have been to Grenada, St Vincent and the Grenadines, St Kitts, Nevus, Antigua, PR, BVIs, STT, and STJ. I have only returned to BVIs and STJ (and STT on way to STJ) - I have never really been to a 'resort' except WSJ - but as a resort - I am sure it would never hold up to a nice resort on Aruba.
 
Kazakie said:
Nope, it was one in downtown
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Yeah - they have an office in both - if it is the same one - do you recall the name - someone I know is interested in it (I can ask on VINOW...)
 
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