No longer trust Marriott...Rewards or Points

[Panzerman]

I am back on TUG after an 8 year absence. I sold my various Marriott's a decade ago before moving to the country of Panama. At least I was able to sell them all before the big market collapse in timeshare resale prices. Boy..... the changes Marriott has made! It is like they are now a different company, and not in a good way.

The trend of devaluing Marriott Reward points is continuing at a rapid place. I recall the "good ole days", of about 1990 when I purchased our first timeshare from Marriott at Desert Springs Villas I. It was $10,200 if I recall right. It gave me 110,000 Marriott Reward points. As a bonus to buy "today", Marriott gave me a 200,000 point voucher good for 7 nights at ANY Marriott in the world, two round trip airline tickets and a week's rental car. We went to Vienna Austria for the week on British Airways, and our rental car was a BMW with automatic transmission. Boy have times changed! How many Marriott Reward points would it take to do that now? So as Marriott inflation has eaten away at the rewards program, NO inflation credit has been given to the original 110,000 points I could trade for every other year. Not a good deal now.

The new vacation Points system are even a worse deal now. Very pricey to buy the amount of points needed to go to a grade A property in high season. And Marriott, in there concept of doing the right thing [for themselves], charges a large premium to by points resale.

I am angry. The reason for my anger is I did have faith in Marriott to do the right thing. As the years moved on, I see that was not the case. It is a different Marriott now than when I first very happily signed on. So now I just rent my vacation weeks from VRBO, or get a Marriott rental week for the amount of the maintenance fee or less from a Marriott owner.

What do the other old time Marriott owners think about how they have been treated by Marriott?

 

[jimf41]

The system works fine for me. As far as prices increasing I think just about everything has increased since 1990. Panama is a good example. I stayed in the Panama City Marriott in 1992 on a military rate for $38 US. That room today in the same timeframe is over $150 with tax.

I do agree with you that a person coming into the system today is not going to get as good a deal as folks got 15 or 20 years ago. Then again they didn't have 53 resorts to choose from and timeshares in general had a really bad reputation back then. Marriott was a key player in changing that and I'm glad they did.

 

[DB-Wis]

I'm having a hard time understanding your anger. If you sold your Marriott timeshares ten years ago, then your only tie to Marriott appears to be the Rewards program. Your participation in the Rewards program is completely voluntary. If you think it is no longer a good value, then stop using it and find one you like. Marriott never promised to maintain the value points may have had at any given point in time.

Things change. Life is short. Reserve your anger for things that are important. This is not one of them.

 

[amanda14]

I'm having a hard time understanding your anger. If you sold your Marriott timeshares ten years ago, then your only tie to Marriott appears to be the Rewards program. Your participation in the Rewards program is completely voluntary. If you think it is no longer a good value, then stop using it and find one you like. Marriott never promised to maintain the value points may have had at any given point in time.

Things change. Life is short. Reserve your anger for things that are important. This is not one of them.

Agree- Why your anger? You sold, are seemingly happy but want to gripe about things today? I have been in for a decade, have gone to some great places, created terrific memories for my family and still ahead of the curve if I compare it to what I would have spent on hotel rooms with no laundry or kitchen. When I purchased my weeks/points I knew fiscally it would be a money loser but that's not why I did it.

 

[MichaelColey]

I think it's the boiling frog principle. You've been away from it, so you see the big difference. Those who have endured the gradual changes, or who didn't know how comfortable the water was initially, haven't seen the big picture.

It's not just Marriott. So many of the great deals we've found in the past have become far less of a deal. But there are still some out there, and they change.

Personally, I like exchanging INTO Marriott timeshares, and I've been quite successful at getting some great exchanges, at a fraction of what the maintenance fees would have been as an owner.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening...

Now entering my12th year..still loving it...

a trip to Boston coming up...fall 2015

annual ski trip on horizon... feb 2016

Redux at Frenchman's cove 5/2016..Followed by vegas Fall 2016...

tons of trips on MR points... including seeing the cash drains in NYC and DC

and of course upcoming 5 nights in Paris on points!!! airfare with travel packages!!!

 

[classiclincoln]

Not to be the middle man, but I actually agree with both sides. I don't understand the OPs anger since they have been out 10 years. But, I do agree with the changes. One of the biggest reasons I didn't enroll in the points program was that I couldn't get enough points to book a week at my home resort in my season. And yes, the incentives given to buy are much less. I also agree with OP point about how Marriott is treating it's owners. Many, many years ago, I used to work for Marriott in the Highway Division and I remember when they first got into the timeshare business. I also had the pleasure of meeting JW Jr. He struck me as a genuinely good man who cared about his employees and customers.

When we were at Grand Chateau a few weeks ago, I was having a conversation with the concierge (read: person who's main job is to get you to do the tour) and she told me that my weeks were going to be worthless unless I enrolled in the points program. I ignored her and left.

In my Marriott survey, I specifically mentioned what happened and that I bet JW Jr. would not appreciate one of his employees lying to a customer.

A real shame....

 

[rthib]

As for the Marriott rewards program, I still continue to get great value.
The problem with the TS to rewards is there was no inflation built in.

Room rates are much different as are the number of elites.

A $50 room is now a $200 room or in the old days, I used to earn 500 points and now with CC and Status I earn 4000 points.

As for weeks. When you bought the only thing you bought was the ability to trade into you location at your time. I have enjoyed my time in Palm Desert.

But for trades, I have used my one week to get 4 weeks at II and then used the face that I was enrolled to add 3 and 4 day trips on the end of those.

So 4 10+ day vacations is not too bad.

Right now with points, I am able to extend my club trip to Hawaii with a 3 day trip before and a six day trip after. All using just the points off one week.

I have no anger, only happiness that I get to spend time with my family.

 

[jont]

rthib

I think there may a typo in your last post

 

[Ty1on]

rthib

I think there may a typo in your last post

It's a LONG way from Hawaii to Amsterdam!

 

[bogey21]

I am back on TUG after an 8 year absence. I sold my various Marriott's a decade ago before moving to the country of Panama. At least I was able to sell them all before the big market collapse in timeshare resale prices. Boy..... the changes Marriott has made! It is like they are now a different company, and not in a good way.

Yes, Marriott Vacation Ownership is a different company than it was when OP (and I) owned. He bailed because he was moving; I bailed because I didn't like the unilateral changes Marriott was making to my ability to use my ownership. When I divested I pretty much agreed with OP's not in a good way characterization. Over the years though I have come to the realization that most of those who have bought the Marriott product in recent years knew what they were buying and are pretty much satisfied with it.

George

 

[tschwa2]

It's a LONG way from Hawaii to Amsterdam!

Thailand might be a shorter flight than Amsterdam.

 

[davidvel]

It's a LONG way from Hawaii to Amsterdam!

Thailand might be a shorter flight than Amsterdam.

(S)he's already gonna be in Hawaii. I am sure many TUGGERs can attest that such a trip can be happily had in those islands. Isn't that why we go there (aside from the tropical breeze, booze, and flip flops)? :rofl:

 

[Ty1on]

(S)he's already gonna be in Hawaii. I am sure many TUGGERs can attest that such a trip can be happily had in those islands. Isn't that why we go there (aside from the tropical breeze, booze, and flip flops)? :rofl:

I can't even get it in Vegas. Why I'm gonna fly all the way to Hawaii to not get it?

 

[jme]

To the OP who is highly disillusioned after returning to the "Land of Marriott",

I was there with you back in the 90s. Bought weeks at developer prices and had high expectations. As you have expressed, I too have witnessed a change in the timeshare industry over the past 2 decades, even with my beloved Marriott. But my story today is a bit different, and I'll try to explain why.

When I decided to get involved, I bought the system hook, line, and sinker, BUT ONLY after a bit of forethought about the reality of my expectations. I figured there would be variables, especially over time, but the constant would always be "one week per year" at a place we loved, with other "non-guaranteed" options, even though the other options sounded fantastic and certainly doable. I decided to purchase weeks that were (1) close to home within drivable distance, (2) in high seasons, and (3) at what I perceived to be a great resort. As it turned out, my experience has been the polar opposite from yours.

Had I NOT bought at that time, and instead relied on simply renting the same properties in the same high seasons I desired, today I would be paying $2800-3000 for each week, and that for a place with a maintenance fee of only $1250. I would be spending far more today if that had been my plan, and I am happy to say I won't ever have to pay those rental fees. And the corollary is that I can easily rent out my weeks (I have the past two years) and do very well on that cash difference.

Back when I purchased the weeks, the conventional wisdom on TUG was that exchanging weeks for Rewards Points was not the greatest value, and I agreed. That stated belief by others stayed with me. Many traded for points but most didn't.
Exchanging for points, in my mind, merely gave the owner a game to play. I saw the "loss of value" and never once exchanged for points. It's become even worse today with the value of the return. Not saying that Rewards Points was a bad thing, but only trading a week for them.

Instead, I saw the value of points in a different light, and set out to accumulate them through other means, i.e., personal purchases monthly using the Marriott Rewards Card and also by taking timeshare "tours"---- and happy to report that we made two fantastic family trips to Europe and dozens of trips to major cities all over the USA (including Hawaii) and around the Caribbean, and most involved free hotel stays which would have been $500-650+ per night, and all included my wife and two children. We never went without them.

Devaluation of points was something I always expected (prompted by the statement that the gift of points would remain unchanged in the documents), but in spite of that, my trips remained free of any cash outlay, and today I continue to accrue points and take awesome trips at no cost to me, without ever exchanging a week for points.

I figured "way back when" that if I bought high value weeks in high demand destinations, my timeshare experience would be far better than the average owner, and that has proven to be true. I have no regrets, and our trips will continue to be awesome experiences, and at the same time amazing bargains going forward. At this point the future is actually brighter than ever because of new properties being added to the hotel experience around the world and in major cities, and the continued quality of the Marriott timeshare properties. Not to mention that we enrolled our legacy weeks at a relatively low fee, allowing an incredible total of potential DC points with which to play should we choose to do so.

After all my years of participation on TUG, I now believe that the timeshare owners who have had the most gripes were the ones who bought something different than I did---maybe a purchase that never had the value I was lucky enough to have. So, to the OP, your conclusions and mine just don't agree. A week whose rental potential was less than the maintenance fee was, in hindsight, never a wise purchase---- that is, if things other than occupying were at play.

My theory was to "purchase to occupy", with a secondary option for trading through Interval, but never the option for MRPs. Interval trade value has also diminished somewhat (not for us), but occupying's value has only increased. My personal opinion was that occupying should have always been the preeminent reason for laying money on the table.

Marriott has not emerged the villain for us, but rather it has been the sole and solitary benefactor responsible for our priceless family experiences we have been fortunate enough to have. Many TUG members I know share that view. Some might share your sentiments, but from what my conversations have been with fellow owners, most are still happy. In a world where things have gone south across the board, vacations remain a beacon of light in my world.

 

[jimf41]

Couldn't have said it better JME.

 

[jont]

Very elouquent Marty. Your words ring true for many of us.

 

[Ricci]

JME..... Your last sentence is completely accurate!!

 

[MabelP]

Thank you for putting my thoughts down so succinctly. I bought Marriott because I knew they had a quality product. I am never disappointed when I arrive at my home resorts or on an exchange to another Marriott Resort.I feel I always get what I paid for.
MabelP

 

[Mamianka]

good evening...

Now entering my12th year..still loving it...

a trip to Boston coming up...fall 2015

annual ski trip on horizon... feb 2016

Redux at Frenchman's cove 5/2016..Followed by vegas Fall 2016...

tons of trips on MR points... including seeing the cash drains in NYC and DC

and of course upcoming 5 nights in Paris on points!!! airfare with travel packages!!!

Plus one. We bought MGC in 2004, as a pre-build - were *tackled* on the street. Have never been sorry. Bought BPT EOY in 2010 - happier still. As far as things changing: My first year of teaching school, gas was 28 cents a gallon. I made $5200 a year. My current pension is based on a figure considerably higher than that. Stuff changes - and at this point, all the NUNS of my past, if assembled in one wimpled cohort, could not muster me to guilt about anything. Or anger over things I let go of, ten years or more ago. Nobody says you have to watch the TV show until the end, read the whole book, or sit thru the entire opera. Had enough? Time to go - and find something you LIKE. We like to stay with Marriott - for now. Things might change - and if so, no guilt, no anger - but a huge l pile of happy memories and great photos.

Mamianka

 

[classiclincoln]

Very well said, jme.

As for this part: "Back when I purchased the weeks, the conventional wisdom on TUG was that exchanging weeks for Rewards Points was not the greatest value, and I agreed. That stated belief by others stayed with me. Many traded for points but most didn't. Exchanging for points, in my mind, merely gave the owner a game to play. I saw the "loss of value" and never once exchanged for points. It's become even worse today with the value of the return. Not saying that Rewards Points was a bad thing, but only trading a week for them."

We exchanged our week for MRP once or twice, I think. Figured out that with our fees being in the $1,200 range and getting 100,000 points for the week, we'd have to get a room with an actual rate (not walk in rate) of like $175 per night ($1,200/7). So, we only used our points if we could get that. Ended up working out well for us; we did this when our older one was up at Yale. Rooms at the Courtyard in New Haven are normally like $180 a night. BUT, for parent's weekend and graduation, they bump up the rate fo like $500 or $600. However, they don't change the points requirement. Been a few years now, but I think it was like 15,000 points per night. So, by using our points for parent's weekend and graduation, we made out like a bandit!

Haven't exchanged for points since he graduated and don't plan to.....

As for our happiness with our units; we love 'em. I keep track of what we paid, fees and the value of our exchanges and we're way ahead of the game on our developer week and ahead on all our resale weeks except one (should be ahead when we use this year's week).

Like you said, it's all about how you go into it.

 

[SueDonJ]

You'll get no argument that the Marriott Rewards program has been devalued over the years; it's all here in black and white, related by TUGgers some of whom have been MR Members since before Marriott got into the timeshare business.

But I have always only trusted Marriott as far as the documents tell me I should, and the documents have always been clear that the Marriott Rewards/timeshares affiliation is an add-on to the timeshare ownership that can be changed or even completely done away with at any time. All we can do is keep up with the changes, keep trying to get the max value out of the program as it exists currently.

The way I see it Marriott overall has changed over the years sometimes for the better and sometimes worse depending on what you own and how you use it. It sounds like you were smart, Panzerman, to get out when you did. Hopefully things won't change so much in the future that I'm left feeling as negatively about Marriott as you do, but if the day comes I'll do what you did. Except, I'll walk away happy like some others in this thread say they would, too, because in the interim we're happy - or at least satisfied - with what Marriott timeshares have added to our lives.

 

[Dave M]

Both Marriott timeshare and Marriott Rewards programs have been wonderful for me.

Timeshares
I once owned three Marriott weeks and, although down to one now, I have enjoyed so many wonderful vacations (echoing Marty's comments) that I can't imagine not having owned them.

Even now, our vacations through MVCI are amazing. As an example, owning one Gold week at Grande Ocean, I traded one year's use for Vacation Club points and wound up with the following mid-week stays: 4 nights at Grande Ocean in our season, 4 nights at Willow Ridge, 4 nights at Harbor Lake and 4 nights at Maui Ocean Club. 16 nights!

As discussed elsewhere in this thread, exchanges can also easily result in more than a one-week stay.

Marriott Rewards
I joined the program in November 1983, the month Marriott instituted it. Over the years, through hotel stays, timeshare purchase bonuses and Marriott credit card use, I accumulated many, many points, never using any of them until I retired 25 years later in 2008. Although I'm still accumulating MR points, we are slowly using them for 5-night and 7-night travel packages and will be able to continue doing so for four or five more years.

Certainly, Marriott's programs don't work well for everyone, including the OP. But for us, how can we not love Marriott!

 

[jme]

Both Marriott timeshare and Marriott Rewards programs have been wonderful for me.

Timeshares
I once owned three Marriott weeks and, although down to one now, I have enjoyed so many wonderful vacations (echoing Marty's comments) that I can't imagine not having owned them.

Even now, our vacations through MVCI are amazing. As an example, owning one Gold week at Grande Ocean, I traded one year's use for Vacation Club points and wound up with the following mid-week stays: 4 nights at Grande Ocean in our season, 4 nights at Willow Ridge, 4 nights at Harbor Lake and 4 nights at Maui Ocean Club. 16 nights!

As discussed elsewhere in this thread, exchanges can also easily result in more than a one-week stay.

Marriott Rewards
I joined the program in November 1983, the month Marriott instituted it. Over the years, through hotel stays, timeshare purchase bonuses and Marriott credit card use, I accumulated many, many points, never using any of them until I retired 25 years later in 2008. Although I'm still accumulating MR points, we are slowly using them for 5-night and 7-night travel packages and will be able to continue doing so for four or five more years.

Certainly, Marriott's programs don't work well for everyone, including the OP. But for us, how can we not love Marriott!

If anyone ever deserves to be Marriott's poster child, Dave is it.
Dave, first of all, hello and warmest regards.

You are so fortunate to have traveled so extensively, especially since your retirement. Your post-retirement trip was one for the ages.......what a list of destinations all over the world!!! The rest of us can only dream about things like that. And if not for Marriott, none of that would have been possible.

There it is, folks, a life-changing relationship that provided priceless memories....... Marriott delivers.
What is left to say?

well, one thing........in the Marriott timeshare world, Dave, there is no one I respect more than you. YOU are the shining example of what we all should strive for. Someone who studies the system, knows the "game" inside and out, and not only enjoys what he has learned, but SERVES the TUG community for years on end with his time and his talents, so that others can benefit.
Bravo. It's an honor to have met you.

Dave I owe you my sincere and endless thanks for all you are and have done.
Hope you will continue to enjoy everything you wish to do.

 

[kmij]

Marriott

great entry marty!!! so true for us too. I believe that you have helped me out over the years with your wisdom on T/S questions and answers and I do thank you for that!
and Dave it is terrific to see a current response from you. another one of my Marriott mentors over the years. maybe someday we will meet up and share some TS stories. I think we will have to go to Hilton Head again for even a chance of that happening!!
and there are still a few restaurants on the HHI list that marty sent me several years ago that we would like to try!!
thanks!