New non-smoking policies at Marriott

[dmwgroup]

Just curious - how are the various Marriott resorts handling the "restricted smoking areas" issue. It is my understanding that there will no longer be any smoking-only rooms available - but what are the other changes being made? At Ocean Pointe, it was mentioned there will be no smoking on the balconies and that designated areas outside and poolside will be provided. If you are going to experience these changes at your resort, were the decisions made by polling the owners or was it a general manager/board members only decision? I know at Ocean Pointe we were never given any type of survey to respond to, or if one was distributed, we never received it. Also, will all the MVCI properties be instituting the same guidelines or will it be determined on an individual, by resort basis? Love to hear how your resort is responding to this. Thanks!

 

[Dave M]

You might want to take a look at this thread from a few weeks ago on this forum, which discusses all of the questions you have asked. In general, each resort's Board of Directors makes the decision for that resort, within the guidelines for rules-making as conferred on the Board by the resort's CC&Rs. As I stated in the linked thread,

Marriott has made all of its hotels - every Marriott brand - nonsmoking. However, MVCI isn't included and you won't see it listed in Marriott's various press releases on this issue.

Marriott doesn't control the smoking designations in its timeshares. The HOAs do. Thus, all Marriott could do is recommend to all of its timeshare resorts - which it has done - that they become nonsmoking. Where Marriott still controls the HOA because the resort is still in active sales, it was easy to make the change. A few others (such as Grand Ocean) had already committed to becoming nonsmoking before Marriott made the recommendation.

One by one, most other Marriott timeshare resorts are announcing that they are joining the nonsmoking group.

 

[bwenzel]

At Ocean Pointe, it was mentioned there will be no smoking on the balconies and that designated areas outside and poolside will be provided. If you are going to experience these changes at your resort, were the decisions made by polling the owners or was it a general manager/board members only decision? I know at Ocean Pointe we were never given any type of survey to respond to, or if one was distributed, we never received it.

I know I'm not real thrilled with the banning of smoking on the balconies and the creation of a segregated area for smokers around the pools. My wife smokes, I don't, and don't permit her to smoke in the house or in my car. I am perfectly fine with not smoking in the room. But my wife is an owner too, and I don't think it is fair to not permit her to smoke at all when occupying our unit. Furthermore, we bring my father and step-mother with us often, and they too are smokers. They may not even come in the future if they are going to be treating like this.

I detest smoking, but I can't force my loved ones to quit. Life doesn't work that way. As my loved ones, regardless of their bad habits, when I want to go to the pool with them as a non-smoker, I deserve the right to sit with my loved ones, together, wherever I choose, not relegated to the smokers section.

Just my 2 cents.

Bill

 

[turkel]

I know I'm not real thrilled with the banning of smoking on the balconies and the creation of a segregated area for smokers around the pools. My wife smokes, I don't, and don't permit her to smoke in the house or in my car. I am perfectly fine with not smoking in the room. But my wife is an owner too, and I don't think it is fair to not permit her to smoke at all when occupying our unit. Furthermore, we bring my father and step-mother with us often, and they too are smokers. They may not even come in the future if they are going to be treating like this.

I detest smoking, but I can't force my loved ones to quit. Life doesn't work that way. As my loved ones, regardless of their bad habits, when I want to go to the pool with them as a non-smoker, I deserve the right to sit with my loved ones, together, wherever I choose, not relegated to the smokers section.

Just my 2 cents.

Bill

I agree but nobody asked us

 

[minoter]

There are numerous studies that have documented proof that second hand smoke is a danger. I believe it is unfair for anyone to impose that danger on my family members or anyone who also has loved ones who do not smoke.

I applaud the HOA Boards that have voted to change the rules and regulations to safeguard all residents from the dangers of second hand smoke. Actually, the Board has a duty to do so.

Eric Minotti

 

[minoter]

There are numerous studies that have documented proof that second hand smoke is a danger. I believe it is unfair for anyone to impose that danger on my family members or anyone who also has loved ones who do not smoke.

I applaud the HOA Boards that have voted to change the rules and regulations to safeguard all residents from the dangers of second hand smoke. Actually, the Board has a duty to do so.

Eric Minotti

 

[KathyPet]

We own 3 Marriott Time Shares. I smoke. I can live with smoking restricted to the balconies only but I think that restricting smoking to "corrals" that they shove us into outside forcing me to leave my unit and venture outside to enjoy a cigarette is very very unfair. I am a owner and I have rights too. If Marriott had these rules in effect when we purchased I can guarantee you that we never would have bought these units. We already are no longer staying in Marriott hotels here in the US because of the smoking ban. If these restrictions are imposed at our resorts we will sell

 

[mamadot]

I agree with the non smoking ban. As a non smoker sitting out on the patio of a timeshare and inhaling the smoke of your neighbors does not make me happy! I have been in hotels, T/S and on cruises where I had to keep all the windows closed and was not able to use the balcony/patio area.

 

[timeos2]

I also like to work with radioactive isotopes at night

If someone said they had the bad habit of using the sofa for a toilet (think Poppie from Seinfeld) at home and they are owners so they can do it when at "their" timeshare, no one would say that because it isn't specifically prohibited in the rules they are free to practice their "habit". Well smoking is also destructive to the units even if slightly more subtle. It isn't normal wear and tear, it can be objectionable to the next guest or even those next door and at the least causes extra cleanup. Banning it is no different than saying no pets or loud noises after 10PM. Smoking or pets or noises are not essential to life (and in fact at least one can shorten it) and may be restricted within the law. If that means an owner no longer wishes to stay then I guess thats too bad but certainly not a justification for allowing a dangerous health hazard to be practiced in the units. How many fires have been caused by careless smoking? It may not be too long before the State laws prohibit smoking in any kind of shared accommodations so the whole question may become moot. In the meantime if smoking is banned by the will of the majority of owners through the BOD then thats the way it is. Break the rules and you will pay.

 

[Bucky]

Nobody has a right to endanger another persons health, period. We have strict laws that apply to DUI's. It is proven that they kill other people. As far as I'm concerned the same should apply to smokers. Nobody should be subjected to second hand smoke.

Now, I must admit, I am a reformed smoker so I am more than a little offended when I have to sit next to someone at the pool that smokes. Just because you are outside, it doesn't mean that others can't smell it. We just got back from Cancun. Stayed at the Royal Sands. Some idiot that smoked cigars managed to get the first palapa that was upwind. Needless to say we had to smell his smoke every morning and afternoon.

As an owner I don't want to smell drapes, etc that are loaded with smoke so I applaud their decision to do away with interior smoking. As far as the balcony goes I really don't want the people below me bellowing smoke while I'm sitting on my balcony enjoying being outside and in the FRESH AIR.

Now to make my final statement on this subject, I admit that I was a two to three pack a day smoker. The day I checked into the hospital for my quintuple bypass surgery I sat in the parking lot and had two more cigarettes. I knew I would never have another so I thought I would go out with a bang. I'm a little upset by this as you can tell. I guess the main reason is because 13 years after my last cigarette and my bypass surgery I have an appointment tomorrow at the Duke University Medical Center to have a CPX test performed by their Transplant Surgery Unit. My health is starting to fail again and I have nothing to blame for it except my stupidity of smoking. Smoking KILLS.

 

[Icarus]

I don't think most people will debate no-smoking policies inside the unit or in closed public areas, And I don't believe anybody is debating that here, John.

It's the outdoor restrictions that are a problem for some of us. As long as there is a reasonable breeze and my smoke is not blowing into another persons unit, why should I not be able to smoke on my balcony? I don't smoke indoors, and I don't smoke where it would normally disturb others.

Personally, I don't mind having separate smoking areas by the pool areas. I just want to be able to smoke on my balcony as long as my smoke blows away from the units and other balconies and doesn't disturb anybody else.

I also don't think it should be a problem for the HOA's to designate a portion (perhaps 10%?) of the units as smoking units, perhaps with an additional $50 cleaning fee for actual use of one of those units to cover any extra maint. costs associated with those units. Those units should be segregated to certain areas, if possible, so the prevailing winds blows away from all non-smoking units. That would be a reasonable and fair solution from my point of view, but I'm sure the anti-smokers will be all over it. I think the key is mutual respect here. Remember, that I'm not claiming a right to smoke anywhere it will disturb anybody else.

-David

 

[timeos2]

Ok - I 'll leave my plastic explosives home too

Personally, I don't mind having separate smoking areas by the pool areas. I just want to be able to smoke on my balcony as long as my smoke blows away from the units and other balconies and doesn't disturb anybody else.

I also don't think it should be a problem for the HOA's to designate a portion (perhaps 10%?) of the units as smoking units, perhaps with an additional $50 cleaning fee for actual use of one of those units to cover any extra maint. costs associated with those units. Those units should be segregated to certain areas, if possible.

-David

The two problems are how do you know if the smoke is blowing back on someone else's balcony or not? What if the wind changes from day to day?

If a portion of rooms / buildings are designated smoking then what if the view isn't what the smoker wants? What if it is what the non-smoker wants? Where is the line drawn?

I agree that if a person wants to smoke they should have a place to do so as this is, I hope, still a free country. I would even go so far as to say smoking on balconies is OK if the smoke really does blow away and not into other guests areas. Beyond that I'd draw the line as creating special rooms for smokers may mean special ones for pets (I like that but many don't) or late sleepers. It just gets to be too much to police and leads to more problems not less. Create a reasonable place for the smokers - it shouldn't be some hell hole behind the dumpster - and then decide if the balconies are OK or not. After that enforce the rules and don't play favorites to any group.

 

[Transit]

My dog smokes is there anyplace I can stay? :hysterical:

 

[AwayWeGo]

Dogs Are Reducing The Value Of Timeshares.

My dog smokes

My dog "Poppie" uses the sofa as a toilet. That leads me to wonder just exactly how "pet friendly" they are down at Celebration World Resort.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[pharmgirl]

Something that really annoys me is the smell of popcorn. This has also been shown to have serious effects, people in the factories that make the microwave popcorn have had pulmonary failue.

Halls stink of this odor for many hours after

I don;t mind smoking on balconies, most of them are around 10 feet separation and the effect of smoking (even cigars) is insignificant

 

[JimC]

This is likely to spread to most of the high quality resort chains. It is nice to see Marriott taking the lead. I suspect that all of MVCI will get there in short order.

 

[Icarus]

The two problems are how do you know if the smoke is blowing back on someone else's balcony or not? What if the wind changes from day to day?

John, I can tell which way the wind is blowing, and I can see if the smoke is blowing towards another balcony or towards the building or not. If the winds are not blowing from the prevailing direction, and blowing towards the building or another unit, you just don't do it.

If a portion of rooms / buildings are designated smoking then what if the view isn't what the smoker wants? What if it is what the non-smoker wants? Where is the line drawn?

A small portion of each view (10% total) could be designated as smoking units. More than 10% of the general population smokes. Yes, it would be harder for the HOA to administer it this way, but they have to administer ADA rooms, and other stuff like that anyway, and Marriott's reservation system already had the ability to deal with smoking and non-smoking rooms, so I don't think it creates that much of a burden to do it. It's just common sense instead of unilaterally deciding that all rooms including all balconies are non-smoking. Yes, it depends on people having mutual respect for each other.

I agree that if a person wants to smoke they should have a place to do so as this is, I hope, still a free country. I would even go so far as to say smoking on balconies is OK if the smoke really does blow away and not into other guests areas. Beyond that I'd draw the line as creating special rooms for smokers may mean special ones for pets (I like that but many don't) or late sleepers. It just gets to be too much to police and leads to more problems not less. Create a reasonable place for the smokers - it shouldn't be some hell hole behind the dumpster - and then decide if the balconies are OK or not. After that enforce the rules and don't play favorites to any group.

I never expected to be able to bring my pet on vacation with me to a Marriott resort (working dogs are of course permitted by ADA laws and even if they weren't it makes sense to accommodate working dogs) and I never expected any other sort of special treatment at a Marriott resort or timeshare. We don't charge extra for creating special ADA rooms or retrofitting ramps or for cleaning fees for working animals, but there's extra cost there too. I'm not suggesting that anybody should look at that the same way, but the fact is that there's a small segment of the general population that has to be accommodated by law and that costs the HOA more money too. What about units with 4 people versus 3 people in the unit? The 4 person family costs the HOA more than the 3 people unit of the same size. Should they charge fees based on the number of people in the unit because it costs less with less people in the room? Or maybe somebody will do a study and determine that "green" people cost the HOA more in maint. costs than "orange" people cost them. Should they charge the "green" people more money or ban the "green" people?

As long as people have mutual respect for each other, this really shouldn't be a huge problem. That's just my opinion and I don't expect everybody else to agree with it.

-David

 

[JimC]

David, I support the ban, but your position is very rational.

 

[m61376]

David- The problem with allowing smoking on balconies, as you suggest, is that you are making the presumption that the smoking guests are both capable of determining if the wind pattern will blow the smoke onto a neighbor's balcony and that they really care if it does blow there. In an ideal world, you are right. However, do you honestly believe that most smokers, if allowed to smoke on their balconies "if the conditions are right" so as not to bother their non-smoking neighbors would really give it a second thought and not smoke if the wind was blowing in the wrong direction? Perhaps I am too cynical, but I doubt the vast majority of smokers would give it a second thought.

As to smoking and non-smoking rooms- in practical application I can foresee a few problems. As someone mentioned above- which rooms/views do you assign? Presumably you'd group the rooms- so are the better views non-smoking?- the smokers would rightfully be furious...or do non-smokers have to accept an allotment of poorer views?- again- it is a lose-lose decision. Also, unless an entire building was designated as smoking, adjacent rooms/hallways/balconies all will be affected by travelling smoke.

Unfortunately, all too often people care more about themselves and their mutual respect for each other goes out the window, and basing smoking policies that depend upon that, as you suggested, are unlikely to work.

 

[dmwgroup]

The "unfairness" with this issue re: smoking on balconies is the owner initially purchased his or her week and was able to smoke on their balcony and now this is being taken away. If this would have been a restriction when the owner was initially making a timeshare purchase, then the owner could either go along with the restriction and smoke only in "designated" areas or not purchase at the resort. But I can see for many who do smoke, this issue is unfair - they made an investment in a vacation property only to find out that now they are going to have certain restrictions placed on them which were not a part of their original vacation "experience". I wonder if Marriott will be repurchasing any of the weeks back from the unhappy owners or if they will just say tough luck, you don't like the rules, then sell it on your own? I wonder what the impact will be when visitors to our resorts from Mexico and Europe are being sent to "designated" smoking areas and not allowed to smoke on their balconies? I wonder if there will be a class-action lawsuit on these issues?

 

[timeos2]

The Association sets the rules

The "unfairness" with this issue re: smoking on balconies is the owner initially purchased his or her week and was able to smoke on their balcony and now this is being taken away. If this would have been a restriction when the owner was initially making a timeshare purchase, then the owner could either go along with the restriction and smoke only in "designated" areas or not purchase at the resort. But I can see for many who do smoke, this issue is unfair - they made an investment in a vacation property only to find out that now they are going to have certain restrictions placed on them which were not a part of their original vacation "experience". I wonder if Marriott will be repurchasing any of the weeks back from the unhappy owners or if they will just say tough luck, you don't like the rules, then sell it on your own? I wonder what the impact will be when visitors to our resorts from Mexico and Europe are being sent to "designated" smoking areas and not allowed to smoke on their balconies? I wonder if there will be a class-action lawsuit on these issues?

Your argument is reasonable but it is trumped by one overriding fact. As part of the purchase it is clearly stated that the buyer will abide by the rules and regulations, as amended from time to time, of the Association. Those rules are dynamic by nature. They are set by the Board members who are elected by the owners to represent them. So if the majority of owners, by way of their elected representatives, decide to change the rules to ban smoking in certain areas or even all together they are within the rules to do so. And the purchase agreement states that the buyer will abide with those rules and regulations. There is no lawsuit to be won as there is no law or rule broken. Now if the original sales agreement included a clause that stated something like "this is a smoking permitted condominium project" then they could not change it without getting a super majority vote and refiling the amended documents with the proper state/local government bodies. Tha isn't the case with the rules and regulations.

The majority does win in this situation.

 

[JimG]

Here we go again

Firstly the OP was asking for information regarding the smoking policy at the various resorts and typically almost all of the responses have been about peoples personal prefferences regarding smoking. :annoyed:

DaveM refers to a thread a few weeks ago that dealt with views,either pro or anti; this thread, I hoped, would give the information asked and thus allow individuals to be able to choose whether to visit a certain resort or not depending which side of the fence they sat on (or indeed weren't bothered one way or another).

So for the benefit of the OP and others who might be interested: -

MEM Mallorca, has as far as I know (we've not been informed differently), never had an issue with smoking, (maybe this is because they are townhouses with private gardens as opposed to balconies.) I'd be interested to hear from anyone who might know differently.

MMB Marbella, issued a newsletter a few weeks before Christmas stating that they had reduced the number of smoking units to reflect the fact that less people smoke these days. I visited over the Christmas period and was told that out of the 4 "rows" of appartments only one would remain smoking. This in my opinion is perfectly fair and reasonable, providing that people staying in the non smoking appartments adhere to the policy (I spotted numerous people out on the non smoking patios lighting up, not that it bothers me being a smoker and it's outside anyway), and some of the designated smoking units are in prime locations (again fair), but I can see some non smokers, smell or no smell requesting these rooms because of the location. It remains to be seen how this turns out.

I will repeat from the other thread that I am not happy that these things are implemented without recourse to the members (albeit within the T&C's) and that far from being the "view of the majority" as the previous poster put it, it is in fact a decision arrived at by the HOA and the elected representatives behind closed doors, and could easily be implemented by anti smoking zealots of which there are numerous.

Now back on topic, can some reasonable tuggers, please provide the information regarding their home resorts. Thanks

JimG

 

[dmwgroup]

Thanks JimG for steering this back to topic. Your information was exactly what I was asking and looking for. Since our resort (Ocean Pointe) will be making their changes re: smoking and non-smoking areas effective as of November of this year, I am assuming their plans are still in the discussion stage and it may be helpful in their decision-making process to see what other resorts are doing (if they are interested and haven't already made those decisions). Yes, I agree with you re: the HOA and wonder what goes on behind closed doors or during their "tele-conferences"!

 

[Cathy in Boston]

Aruba Ocean Club and Aruba Surf Club will become nonsmoking effective May 1.

 

[JimC]

I expect the entire portfolio will become non-smoking eventually. If Marriott wants it to happen, it is likely to happen.