• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

New KBV Ballot in the mail [separated from older thread]

Lowry

Guest
Joined
Jan 30, 2025
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Resorts Owned
KBV 2 units interval owners
If it was me and I had weeks in RCI I couldn't use by shutdown, I'd merge/extend the TPU. I think that has a chance of making them no longer identifiable as coming from this resort. It's a bit of a risk because of the fees (and if it doesn't work you've paid the fees for nothing) but that's what I'd do.first to this forum.. owners at KBV 22 years. We received

If it was me and I had weeks in RCI I couldn't use by shutdown, I'd merge/extend the TPU. I think that has a chance of making them no longer identifiable as coming from this resort. It's a bit of a risk because of the fees (and if it doesn't work you've paid the fees for nothing) but that's what I'd do.
First time posting … we have been interval owners KBV for 25 years . We received a Ballot today “ consent to Vote on the Incorporation of the Association of Apartment Owners Of KBV a “ Hawaii non
Profit “. Any idea on what & why the Board is presenting this? What if any benefits to owners? The last time we voted … due to litigation nothing came from that vote. Needless to say our current ownership with Kauii Beach Villas is less than desirable.. we appreciate any information.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
58,773
Reaction score
10,679
Location
Northern, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim) NEW: 3 Lawa'i Beach Resort!
Did this come by email, or in the US mail?
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
58,773
Reaction score
10,679
Location
Northern, CA
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim) NEW: 3 Lawa'i Beach Resort!
Just got the mail: We got these ballots today, too - I have no idea what it's about.
 

Lowry

Guest
Joined
Jan 30, 2025
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Resorts Owned
KBV 2 units interval owners
… As owners we are entitled to an explanation and more accountability from the Board of Directors. I can only imagine how many owners have no idea what’s happening. I often wonder if the board counts on that..
 

stevenmhorne

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2024
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
I received mine yesterday and have been thinking about what the motivation to do this now would be. The one thing I am certain of is that our Interval BOD does not have out best interests in mind in allowing us to vote on this.

The AOAO states that the reason is to incorporate is to "limit association members' liability for debts and negligence of an association", "provide greater protection for its board members", and "to facilitate an association's ability to borrow funds .....to pay for major maintenance or capital improvement projects".

I question why these additional protections have become important after all these years. Is the AOAO BOD stacked with WYN collaborators like the IOA is? Why would they need the ability to borrow for major maintenance projects when they will be making a special assessment to the apartment owners? Why would the association members liability for debts and negligence of the association need to be limited.

I plan to vote NO, but will not vote until closer to the deadline so additional comments from this group can be considered.

I am not clear on the timeline, but did our BOD move forward with the remediation of Buildings G, H, and I just after the AOAO lawsuit was settled? Does anyone know anything about the settlement terms? Maybe just a coincidence, but maybe not.

I have attached a copy of the letters from both BOD's in case others have not received theirs. I would appreciate hearing comments on what others think could be going on here.
 

Attachments

  • doc02926920250131091321.pdf
    1,010.1 KB · Views: 37

TnG24

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2024
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Resorts Owned
Club Kauai beach villas, Maria Alm
I received mine yesterday and have been thinking about what the motivation to do this now would be. The one thing I am certain of is that our Interval BOD does not have out best interests in mind in allowing us to vote on this.

The AOAO states that the reason is to incorporate is to "limit association members' liability for debts and negligence of an association", "provide greater protection for its board members", and "to facilitate an association's ability to borrow funds .....to pay for major maintenance or capital improvement projects".

I question why these additional protections have become important after all these years. Is the AOAO BOD stacked with WYN collaborators like the IOA is? Why would they need the ability to borrow for major maintenance projects when they will be making a special assessment to the apartment owners? Why would the association members liability for debts and negligence of the association need to be limited.

I plan to vote NO, but will not vote until closer to the deadline so additional comments from this group can be considered.

I am not clear on the timeline, but did our BOD move forward with the remediation of Buildings G, H, and I just after the AOAO lawsuit was settled? Does anyone know anything about the settlement terms? Maybe just a coincidence, but maybe not.

I have attached a copy of the letters from both BOD's in case others have not received theirs. I would appreciate hearing comments on what others think could be going on here.
Received ours today, too. Didn’t know which way to vote. Thanks for some info. Will see what happens before deadline. You asked a lot of my questions. Greater protection for the board members? What about US? I will keep checking back. Thanks again for reading my mind.
 

brocious1

newbie
Joined
Nov 25, 2024
Messages
1
Reaction score
1
Resorts Owned
KBV
Hello, The KBV Board of directors just sent out a ballot for timeshare owners to vote to"incorporate the Association of Apartment Owners of Kauai Beach Villas" into a Hawaii nonprofit corporation.
There was almost no explanation of what that all means for the owners? But one thing that it did say was that it made it easier for the board to borrow money? and I'm not sure that is a good thing for the timeshare owners at this point? Does anyone have any idea of what this really means? Should we be voting for or against this measure?
 

jacknsara

KBV Forum Moderator
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
1,099
Reaction score
357
Location
Mercer Island WA
Resorts Owned
Pahio Kauai Beach Villas, Pahio Shearwater
Aloha,
We’re at Shearwater till next Thursday and will be at KBV for the rest of February. I’ve perused the attached file. Given how few owners bother to respond to ballots like this my guess is that Wyndham will vote however it chooses. I encourage everyone who has questions to post them at the bottom of

Jack
 

pafuson

Guest
Joined
Aug 2, 2023
Messages
9
Reaction score
3
Resorts Owned
Kauai Beach Villas EOY
Marriott Shadow ridge
We have owned every other even week at KBV since 2002. I understand that the IOA board is having a zoom meeting next week. I thought the information I received in email today. Hopefully they might share more info about this vote then.


Aloha,

Enclosed you will find the Zoom link for the upcoming KBV IOA Regular Telephonic Board of Directors Meeting scheduled for Tuesday, February 04, 2025 at 9 a.m. (HST).
Join Zoom Meeting

https://travelandleisure.zoom.us/j/91227669637?pwd=O44qzs1Q9ukQ7NDSinkRN7


Liane Henderson

Administrative Assistant I



Kauai Beach Villas

Wyndham Destinations

4330 Kauai Beach Drive

Lihue, HI 96766

office: 808-241-1002

Email: liane.henderson@wyn.com
 

PAD

Guest
Joined
Feb 2, 2025
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Resorts Owned
Pahio at Kauai Beach Villas (KBV)
We have owned every other even week at KBV since 2002. I understand that the IOA board is having a zoom meeting next week. I thought the information I received in email today. Hopefully they might share more info about this vote then.


Aloha,

Enclosed you will find the Zoom link for the upcoming KBV IOA Regular Telephonic Board of Directors Meeting scheduled for Tuesday, February 04, 2025 at 9 a.m. (HST).
Join Zoom Meeting

https://travelandleisure.zoom.us/j/91227669637?pwd=O44qzs1Q9ukQ7NDSinkRN7


Liane Henderson

Administrative Assistant I



Kauai Beach Villas

Wyndham Destinations

4330 Kauai Beach Drive

Lihue, HI 96766

office: 808-241-1002

Email: liane.henderson@wyn.com
Thank you for posting this.

Everyone should notice the stated "PRIMARY PURPOSE" of the ballot: "The primary reasons are to limit association members' liability for debts and negligence of an association and to provide greater protection for its board members."

Note, it doesn't state the primary purpose is to limit KBV OWNER exposure to debts created by negligence and conflicts of interest (e.g., Wyndham profit conflicts and Wyndham-dominated Board Members) and to protect KBV OWNERS. The vote is putting Board / Wyndham protection over KBV OWNER protection. It's yet another example of the continuing conflict of interest.

According to downloadable Hawaii court records (I will attach the complaint and final judgement only), our KBV Board members and Wyndam Destinations were sued for the very things many of us have experienced and complained of for years. It's clear that in this vote they now desire incorporation to shield themselves personally and Wyndham from future legal exposure.
 

PAD

Guest
Joined
Feb 2, 2025
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Resorts Owned
Pahio at Kauai Beach Villas (KBV)
According to Hawaii court records:

The downloadable complaint was Electronically Filed with FIFTH CIRCUIT
#5CCV-22-0000029
30-APR-2022 10:01 PM
Dkt. 1 CMP

The FINAL JUDGEMENT is also downloadable.


Recommend reading and deciding for yourself whether to trust this current Board's recommendation to incorporate as a non-profit.

I might normally be in favor of non-profit incorporation; however, the Board is still Wyndham-dominated and the property is still largely Wyndham owned. A "yes" vote to incorporate means that Wyndham may continue to have and exercise a conflict of interest, even if Hawaii laws prohibit non-profits from conflicts of interests. Wyndham employees and Board Members appear to be after non-profit legal protections without relinquishing their conflicts of interest ownership and governance.
 

PAD

Guest
Joined
Feb 2, 2025
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Resorts Owned
Pahio at Kauai Beach Villas (KBV)
According to Hawaii court records:

The downloadable complaint was Electronically Filed with FIFTH CIRCUIT
#5CCV-22-0000029
30-APR-2022 10:01 PM
Dkt. 1 CMP

The FINAL JUDGEMENT is also downloadable.


Recommend reading and deciding for yourself whether to trust this current Board's recommendation to incorporate as a non-profit.

I might normally be in favor of non-profit incorporation; however, the Board is still Wyndham-dominated and the property is still largely Wyndham owned. A "yes" vote to incorporate means that Wyndham may continue to have and exercise a conflict of interest, even if Hawaii laws prohibit non-profits from conflicts of interests. Wyndham employees and Board Members appear to be after non-profit legal protections without relinquishing their conflicts of interest ownership and governance.
This site won't allow me to upload the court docs. If you want to see the court case docs you can go to https://www.courts.state.hi.us/ to purchase and dowload the related case files for a small fee per doc.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
12,237
Reaction score
6,051
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
We've been talking about this lawsuit pretty much since it has been filed. I do think people should read the documents, as they are interesting. It is worth remembering that they are not statements of fact, but assertions by each side, so neither side is necessarily completely (or even mostly) correct in their contentions.

Having paid at least semi-close attention to the lawsuit more or less since it was filed, here's my otherwise uninformed, speculative, and "I am not a lawyer" take on the current state of play: the Defendants' strategy is to starve the whole owners while continuing to limit the possible amount they can receive, to get them to give up and go away.

This is from memory, because the site is down at the moment, but here's what I remember:
  • The IOA (the entity that represents the timeshare owners) was removed from the defendant list by summary judgement.
  • The plaintiffs failed in their attempt to certify as a class.
  • There is a draft summary judgement order removing Wyndham as a defendant; I don't think that order has been filed yet, but can't check to be sure.
If I am interpreting things correctly, that pretty much leaves only the AOAO and individual Board Members as defendants. I think there might be another entity or two in the defendant list, but I can't remember---maybe they are trying to bring in the original developer, but I'm not sure that entity exists anymore.

This vote is to limit the amount that the whole owners can possibly extract from the AOAO. Even if this vote fails, the AOAO is just "the people who own the apartments". Wyndham is one of those "people", but so are all of the rest of us. If that petition for summary judgement removing Wyndham as a separate entity (apart from their existing ownership) with liability succeeds, then the prospect of the whole owners having access to anyone with deep pockets gets very small very quickly.

At the same time, the AOAO has moved forward to levy special assessements against each apartment. They chose to do this in three installments. Conveniently, this puts each invidual timeshare week owned under the $5K "action limit" that was previously reported by one of the two Boards, even if they choose to pay neither this year's fees nor the special assessment.

By contrast, the whole owners will be well above that number---and will have to come up with low-six-figures or be subject to a lein, and eventually foreclosure. That's a long row to hoe, but if that's what the AOAO has to do, it seems like they'll be wiling to do it.

So, it seems to me that the defendants are moving as many levers as they can to get us closer to the ultimate end game for the resort, which is to partition it from the condo site plan and sell it at forced auction.

------------------------------

I will be the first to admit that I'm biased and have a stake in the outcome, because I currently own a couple of weeks here. But, I've read the engineering report describing the problems with the buildings and the remediation plan, and as far as I can tell most (if not all) of the problems are structural. They are due either to failures during construction, or design elements that maybe were not the wisest choices in an oceanfront environment. For example, maybe using steel pre-tensioned concrete in a corrosive coastal marine environment wasn't the smartest idea. In contrast, few if any of the problems seem to be due to negligent maintenance, and I definitely don't see the case for "only the oceanfront buildings were neglected" seeing as how all of them share most of the same problems.

So, I think the whole owners' claims, as presented, are probably more or less without merit. Why are they pressing? Because unless they can get a chunk of money via a Hail Mary lawsuit, they are well and truly f*****. They have an "asset" that two years ago was worth mid-six figures, and now is worth significnatly less than that---namely, whatever we end up getting at auction. Given Kauai County's stance on development, particularly outside of established tourism zones, that's probably not very much. At all.

How many of you could lose half a million dollars overnight without losing much sleep? If you were facing such a loss, how far would you go to try to get some of it back, even if it wasn't very likely to succeed?

That's where we are.
 
Last edited:

bianchicycle

Guest
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
75
Reaction score
17
Resorts Owned
Kauai Beach Villas
This site won't allow me to upload the court docs. If you want to see the court case docs you can go to https://www.courts.state.hi.us/ to purchase and dowload the related case files for a small fee per doc.
The ballot states that if they don't get enough votes (either way), the board will make the decision! KNV has never seen enough votes so you KNOW what the BOS will do.
 

magmue

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
559
Reaction score
409
Location
Northwest of Normal
Resorts Owned
HGVC: Kingsland
West 57th
Worldmark
Whale Pointe fractional
Point at Poipu (deed)
Lawai Beach Resort
Kauai Beach Villas
that pretty much leaves only the AOAO and individual Board Members as defendants..--maybe they are trying to bring in the original developer, but I'm not sure that entity exists anymore.
The original developer was David Walters, under the name Pahio. He sold Pahio to Wyndham in 2006. Wyndham continues to use Pahio as a designation for the 4 original resorts - Pahio.com is currently a pitch for Wyndham's Extra Vacations.

Walters died in 2009: "Walters began building homes on Kauai in 1974 when he was 31 and worked hard to apply sustainability techniques to his projects. He soon launched PAHIO Resorts, which developed into one of the island's largest resort developers and operators, and also one of its major employers. Among PAHIO's projects are Ka Eo Kai, The Shearwater, Bali Hai Villas and Kauai Beach Villas.

"PAHIO believes that as builders, and as individuals, we must abide by the premise that the entire world is a single unified system," Walters wrote. "We act locally, but we are compelled to think globally. We are very cognitive and respectful of the Hawaiian culture and customs
."

I don't think that is a promising pocket to be tapped via litigation.
 

jacknsara

KBV Forum Moderator
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
1,099
Reaction score
357
Location
Mercer Island WA
Resorts Owned
Pahio Kauai Beach Villas, Pahio Shearwater
Aloha,
David Walters was NOT the original developer of the buildings. He bought out the unsold units from the original developer who was failing financially.
Jack
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
12,237
Reaction score
6,051
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
The original developer was David Walters, under the name Pahio
I thought that too, but @jacknsara filled in the blanks.

And, given the history, I think there is pretty much no chance that the entity ultimately responsible for this fiasco will be held to account, as they went the way of the dodo bird a long time ago.

But I do think you are right that Pahio was named as one of the defendants.
 

R0oK33

Guest
Joined
Feb 27, 2024
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
I'm a little confused as to the current state of the whole owners lawsuit. The Hawaii website says it is terminated, but the last judgement was only to deny the conversion to a class action lawsuit, correct? Has anything else happened since then?
 

skcamerabuff

newbie
Joined
Feb 11, 2024
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Resorts Owned
Kauai Beach Villas, The Cliffs
Received ours today, too. Didn’t know which way to vote. Thanks for some info. Will see what happens before deadline. You asked a lot of my questions. Greater protection for the board members? What about US? I will keep checking back. Thanks again for reading my mind.
I am probably voting NO because if voting YES is in the interest of Wyndham, than I would suppose it is not in our interest as timeshare owners. This letter is purposefully vague so that NO ONE would understand what it would mean. I googled the Non Profit Timeshare idea and it sounds very bad. Everyone needs to pay close attention and post any and all info before the deadline.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
12,237
Reaction score
6,051
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
I'm a little confused as to the current state of the whole owners lawsuit. The Hawaii website says it is terminated, but the last judgement was only to deny the conversion to a class action lawsuit, correct? Has anything else happened since then?
I think the “terminated” notation is incorrect because things have been entered in the docket even after that happened. But I am not 100% sure.
 

tango

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
170
Reaction score
22
Location
Gig Harbor
Trying to get my mind around the impact on me, a tiny half timeshare owner who has already written off the whole issue. The conclusion I am coming to, even if I vote no, is that it will have a negligible impact either way
 

Jtorr2

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2023
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
Sherman Oaks CA
Resorts Owned
Kauai Beach Villas (even years)
First time posting … we have been interval owners KBV for 25 years . We received a Ballot today “ consent to Vote on the Incorporation of the Association of Apartment Owners Of KBV a “ Hawaii non
Profit “. Any idea on what & why the Board is presenting this? What if any benefits to owners? The last time we voted … due to litigation nothing came from that vote. Needless to say our current ownership with Kauii Beach Villas is less than desirable.. we appreciate any information.

My situation is similar--long term (Pahio program) and I got the same letter in the U S Mail. I have no idea what the pros and cons might be, and past experience with the litigation is worrisome. It feels like the full time owners are getting the most benefit to the detriment of the interval owners. Have you learned anything new about the proposal? Janet Torres
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top