Neighbor's Tree Roots in Our Sewer Drain

[stugy]

I'm sure we are not the first but nonetheless, we are pretty upset. Our neighbors have many, many tall, really tall trees. We do not live in the woods or in a rural area. We live in a neighborhood. Several years ago we saw him blowing leaves down the storm drain, lots of leaves. He told me they wouldn't hurt anything. They absolutely refuse to get their trees trimmed so when their is a storm, these tall trees sway back and forth and I pray and pray. I know several are over a hundred feet tall.
Well now we decided to get a new concrete driveway but felt we should have our sewer line checked first to avoid a later dig-up. It's a miracle we have not had sewage in our house. Three feet out and it is totally blocked with tree roots from the tree lovers big tree. We called our insurance, no coverage, they thought we should ask them to check with their insurance, no coverage because "they are not liable for the direction their roots take." This is going to cost several thousand dollars. We were told to go to the magistrate. I feel like it will not result in anything other than "they are not liable for the direction their roots take." No code on trees. So for those of you who have dealt with this, what did you do other than spend several thousand dollars......oh and did you replace the sewer line or have a "liner inserted." We had a nice versalock wall installed a year ago. If we have it replaced, part of the wall will have to be taken out. I can't help but to feel that this is just so unfair. Why do their rights supercede ours? We have trees too, a few in the back of the house away from the house and trimmed every 3 years............any suggestions?
Pat

 

[Passepartout]

Tough call. Obviously, your own insurance will have to pay when the sewer backs up into your house. One would think they would be anxious to alleviate the problem ahead of time.

You can try this: http://www.coppersulfatecrystals.com/killroots.html The best thing to do is 'roto root' to remove the excess in the line then kill the roots with the copper sulphate and use it regularly every 6 months to kill the invading 'feeder' roots.

Good Luck!

Jim

 

[pjrose]

I feel your pain.....

We live in a heavily wooded neighborhood, and we have a 250' long driveway bordered by low stone walls with lights every so many feet. In our neighborhood we all have big trees, and we aren't supposed to cut them down unless it is for the immediate house/garage/driveway or the trees are dead.

It's not quite the same, but a few years ago in a big ice storm some of the neighbor's big trees came down in our direction, hit some more of their trees, then some of our trees, and on and on like dominoes. I can't remember the details, but we ran into the situation of their trees vs our trees.

One of our trees that was knocked down had its roots under our driveway, so when the roots popped up the blacktop came up too.

We lost a lot of mature rhododendron bushes, about 30 or more feet of low stone wall, a series of driveway lights (and had to replace them all because the ones that were destroyed are no longer made). It cost around $1,500 just to get all the trees across our driveway cut up and removed, another $1,500 or more to redo the damaged section of driveway, and then I don't remember how much to get the new lights and have them installed along the driveway.....the wall we just gave up on, and landscaping wasn't covered, so we got small rhododendrons and planted them ourselves.

Our insurance covered quite a bit, but some things weren't covered because the cause was the neighbors' trees not ours. And then the ice storm was considered an act of God or disaster or something along those lines which I think also reduced our coverage. Meanwhile, the neighbor's big trees were across our driveway and their large (6' diameter) unsightly root masses were upended close enough to our property to be an issue .....but she couldn't afford to have them removed, so we ended up taking care of that too.

 

[Kal]

You need to look at a permanent solution to the root problem. Even after roto-rooter, the roots will grow back and probably much faster. Roots love a wet, warm and fertilized source of nutrients. Either remove the roots starting at ground surface, replace the sewer line or install a liner.

Copper solutions are just a quick momentary treatment as it will be washed away with routine sewer flow. Even if you get a solution of adequate strength, it won't fill the pipe and remain in place for a reasonable duration to kill the roots. High strength material is only sold to licensed contractors so that further complicates the issue.

 

[jlr10]

Obviously, your own insurance will have to pay when the sewer backs up into your house. One would think they would be anxious to alleviate the problem ahead of time.

Under most standard homeowner's policies backup of sewer or drains is excluded unless the policy is specifically endorsed to add the coverage. If you want this covered be sure the policy amended if necessary.

 

[csxjohn]

Get another estimate.

If your contractor is telling you the wall must be removed, find someone who has the right equipment to bore under the wall if you decide to replace the line with plastic pipe. There are horizontal boring machines and they are used for that purpose.

Many people around here deal with this problem and it's usually fixed by renting a power snake with enough cable to reach the street. Regular treatments with a commercial root killer will usually keep the problem under control.

Those trees were more than likely there before you and your neighbor were born or moved in there. The possibility of roots getting into your sewers was there then, so calling your neighbors "tree lovers" is kind of weird just because they have large trees in their yard.

 

[timeos2]

Trees are natural and cannot be told where to send their roots(!). It is up to you to put in sewer pipe, such as the solid PVC mentioned, that will be extremely resistant to root infiltration. I spent over 30 years in what started out as the sewer department - we became Pure Waters as the majority of the work was operating 3 huge sewage treatment plants - so although I was on the much cleaner bookkeeping & computer network end of the operation I heard literally thousands of times the harried dispatchers tell frustrated homeowners that they were responsible for the lines to the mains regardless of why they failed. If it isn't a tree it's a heavy truck or an errant backhoe especially with older clay pipes. You are wise to check it before pouring concrete but accept that the care & maintenance of that important pipe is all yours. Don't waste the time going to court to hear what you already figured out correctly. It's not the neighbors or the trees fault.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Several years ago, I have a neighbor who had VERY big trees growing near my house. Not pruned and not managed, 1 tree finally broke off and CRASHED into my 3 family brick house. The one tenant called the police, who then went and visited the neighbor.

I sent a certified, return receipt letter and informed him to REMOVE the DEAD tree from my roof and to prevent by removing any other tree that might be coming down on my rental property in the future. NOW it will be HIS problem.

He spent the summer chopping down trees. And just letting the wood rot in place.

3 Weeks ago, I had the Code Enforcement department in my yard to look at his 20+ wild cats, weeds 15 feet tall and his recent & unfinished house addition and 600 sq ft separate garage. According to my painting contractor, the part time code official was a "little" hot.

He got an immediate FINE of $2,000 plus a remove all unpermitted additions and buildings OREDER within 30 days AND clean up the yard of debris and weeds.

SEND the warning certified letter of disease, dying and over grown trees. If he wants to ignore the issue, you just made sure that his "act of God" now becomes his bill. He is aware of the issue and liability --- his trees are his problem.

PS Make sure you have no trees rooted on your property who have issues.\

 

[kwindham]

ugghhh, just had a similar problem about 3 weeks ago, only it was MY tree that the roots had over time kind of wrapped around the solid pipe and squeezed it essentially pinching it in half, which resulted in it collapsing, sort of.

DH was NOT happy with me OR my trees that day!

 

[ronparise]

This is why I own timeshares instead of a second home

This may be the first time you have faced a problem like this, but it probably wont be the last. This is just one of the costs of home ownership. Its why condos (incl timeshares) budget for a reserve fund. Most homeowners dont

I had to do this recently. I paid a company to run a camera to the blockage, and tell me where to dig, and then I did the job myself with less than $50 in pipe and glue...I cut out the bad and put in the new. (I know, easy for me to say; here in Florida the pipe was less than a foot below the surface.) But my point is, get a second estimate...and unless you can do it yourself, Id do the epoxy liner


and its not just the sewer company, I thought I had some trees that ought to be trimmed to prevent possible damage to the electric line that ran from the pole to the house. They wouldnt do it; said they would rather replace the lines that fail, rather than do the preventative maintenance.....so I did it myself. $30000 later my crushed heel was repaired with metal and screws (I dont do ladders anymore)...so be careful out there

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

From previous experience, the general rule we were told - at least here in Washington - is that damage from trees, even a neighbors trees, is a natural occurrence for which the neighbor has no liability. The exception is if the tree is diseased or damaged such that it is a hazard and the neighbor is aware of the situation. In that case the neighbor would have constructive knowledge of the issue and would have liability.

I was advised that if I had concerns, I should hire a professional arborist to assess the neighbors, then give the arborist's report to my neighbor.

As for tree roots in the sewer, as others have pointed out that's just a normal event. It falls in the category of stuff happens in life that isn't anybody's fault and you just deal with it.

 

[stugy]

The sewer line is down about 7 to 8 feet. and neither of us can dig that. BTW, this neighborhood had once been cornfields. The trees were planted by their owner. None of my trees are any way near this sewer.
To get a second estimate on the liner is to call rotor rooter and I've been forewarned by another neighbor. Once I sign a contract with this guy to do the liner, he will take care of any back up until the job is done (within a week he says). Meanwhile we're using less "paper products." I will not try to kill his tree as I am strongly opposed to taking revenge.
I appreciate all the input. It does help us with this tough situation and also reinforces the fact that many others suffer from this and worse situations. Sometimes you just gotta grin and bear it.
Pat

 

[ronparise]

The sewer line is down about 7 to 8 feet. and neither of us can dig that. BTW, this neighborhood had once been cornfields. The trees were planted by their owner. None of my trees are any way near this sewer.
To get a second estimate on the liner is to call rotor rooter and I've been forewarned by another neighbor. Once I sign a contract with this guy to do the liner, he will take care of any back up until the job is done (within a week he says). Meanwhile we're using less "paper products." I will not try to kill his tree as I am strongly opposed to taking revenge.
I appreciate all the input. It does help us with this tough situation and also reinforces the fact that many others suffer from this and worse situations. Sometimes you just gotta grin and bear it.
Pat

I dont think Id grin (especially if I was using less paper products)

I wasnt suggesting you dig it up yourself, only that there are other options to replacing or lining the whole length of pipe.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I appreciate all the input. It does help us with this tough situation and also reinforces the fact that many others suffer from this and worse situations. Sometimes you just gotta grin and bear it.
Pat

Our experience with tree roots blocking the sewer came on December 24th about seven or eight years ago. DD had come home the day before with the young man who is now my SIL - it was his introduction to the family. First the car broke down on the way home from the airport. Then the next day we have raw sewage coming up the drain in the shower in the guest bathroom. Had the rooter guy there about dinner time that night, cutting through the roots.

What a way to welcome someone into the family!!!

Things went along OK for several more Christmases, until one time when one of my sons was splitting firewood and sliced off the tip of one his fingers. Maybe all of that stuff is part of why DD likes to host Christmas now at her place.

 

[Phydeaux]

Is it safe to assume the neighbors trees were in place when you purchased your home? Did you have a pre-purchase inspection? If you did, did the inspector call all out the potential for this type of problem?

They wouldn't happen to be sugar maples, would they? Invasive roots on those buggers...first hand experience.

 

[csxjohn]

From previous experience, the general rule we were told - at least here in Washington - is that damage from trees, even a neighbors trees, is a natural occurrence for which the neighbor has no liability. The exception is if the tree is diseased or damaged such that it is a hazard and the neighbor is aware of the situation. In that case the neighbor would have constructive knowledge of the issue and would have liability.

...

This is pretty much how it is in Ohio too. I learned this when a friend had a neighbors tree fall on his house. The two insurance companies agreed that because there was no evidence of rot in the tree it's not the tree owners fault and my friends insurance company paid for the the repairs.

So you can send all the certified letters you want, the laws of your state will determine who pays for any damage when a tree falls.

 

[theo]

Some personal experience and observations...

<snip> Three feet out and it is totally blocked with tree roots from the tree lovers big tree. <snip> I can't help but to feel that this is just so unfair. <snip> .........any suggestions?

Background: At my folks' home, there are two tall maple trees which my late father (God rest his wonderful soul) planted as saplings 65+ years ago. My Mom still lives in that home, built by my Dad a few years after his return from WWII. Mom would never consider removing these trees under any circumstances. I conduct or oversee all maintenance and repairs at her home and I completely understand and respect her wishes.

Just last year, the roots from these two trees (...yes, her own trees, but that's not the point) obstructed the sewer line from the house to the sewer connection at the street; immediate intervention was required. Fortunately, the problem was discovered by noticing the slower and slower drainage of tub and sinks; there was (...knock on some tree wood) no actual occurrence of sewerage backup at any time.

I hired a "Rooter Man" contractor last year to "ream" out the roots, with no excavation or other large scale enterprise required (btw, the more widely advertised Roto Rooter company never even showed up at all for their pre-scheduled job, but local "Rooter Man" contractor was great). This will now have to be done every year at a cost of at least $200 per visit and I actually had it done again just yesterday for this year. I seem to recall that +/- 60 feet may be the maximum run for the particular "reaming" hardware which they utilized.

Personally, I'll gladly pay $200 once a year forever, rather than undertake a $8.5k -- $10K+ excavation job which will kill the trees, tear up the lawn and concrete walkway and surely also traumatize my elderly mother.

Short summary:
1. You don't have a legal leg to stand on, regarding the travel of a neighbor's tree roots into your property. Potentially dangerous / damaging limbs overhanging a property line are another matter; not applicable here. You clearly believe this is "unfair", but it's nonetheless an indisputable fact, no matter where you live.
Sorry, but that's just how it is --- so please don't shoot the messenger.

2. Annual "reaming" of your sewer line by "Rooter Man" (or some local version thereof) may be both an inconvenience and an unwelcome expense, but it sure beats all other expensive and damaging alternatives.

3. There must be a "cleanout" access point at the house in order to employ the above mentioned equipment and services. Local construction codes most likely require the existence of this access point somewhere in your home anyhow, so that particular "access" need really shouldn't be an obstacle or issue. Good luck.

 

[KarenLK]

Theo,

My tree [actually the town's tree] has been causing problems for a few years, as has the neighbor's tree to her sewer.

The town came with their camera equipment in July and declared the sewer a mess; same for the neighbor, who has had a lot of flooding and backups [we haven't had so much]

The town has agreed to take down both trees late this fall [they said after the leaves have fallen] so we are happy campers, at least til next summer when we will notice how much shade those trees gave us.

 

[Icc5]

Dealt with at different angle

At our last house we had the same problem and paid to take care of it. At the house we are in now we have the problem from above. We have a creek behind our house with tons of old trees, oaks, etc. Some are huge and overhang the wires and our property. We have had the water works people and PG&E both come out.
Water Works says the trees are why most people buy the property along the creek so they won't trim or do anything. PG&E says unless the trees are in the wires they won't do anything.
So far we have spent over $4,000 for trimming. We have lived here 5 years and it looks like the tree trimming will have to be done again soon. Living by the creek is my wife's choice not mine (family home). Have to pay the price.
Bart

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

…

3. There must be a "cleanout" access point at the house in order to employ the above mentioned equipment and services. Local construction codes most likely require the existence of this access point somewhere in your home anyhow, so that particular requirement shouldn't be an obstacle or issue. Good luck.

We don't have a clean-out - wish we had one. We pulled a toilet on the lower level for the rooter man to gain access. In our case he had to go about 100 feet to get to the blockage, which is farther than I had thought it was to the connection in the street.

*****

Got a notice this summer that the City is going to be repairing the sewer in the street in front of my house; the job actually was to have been completed in August, but hasn't started yet. Seems there is repair needed to the city sewer at the point where my lateral enters, which would appear almost exactly the same distance the rooter guy had to go to get to the blockage. I'm expecting that when they get it open they're going to find that the connection is cracked and that a nearby pine tree and tamarack tree are invading the sewer line. I'm hoping that this is one and the same problem and that when the City does it's repairs to the street sewer my problem will be gone as well.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

You need to look at a permanent solution to the root problem. Even after roto-rooter, the roots will grow back and probably much faster. Roots love a wet, warm and fertilized source of nutrients. Either remove the roots starting at ground surface, replace the sewer line or install a liner.

Copper solutions are just a quick momentary treatment as it will be washed away with routine sewer flow. Even if you get a solution of adequate strength, it won't fill the pipe and remain in place for a reasonable duration to kill the roots. High strength material is only sold to licensed contractors so that further complicates the issue.

Not sure I agree with you here, Ken. The copper sulfate gets added as crystals which take a while to dissolve and get embedded in the sediment and gunk on the bottom of the sower. So if you use an adequate amount the treatment actually extends for a week or longer. Copper sulfate is also pretty quick acting - if you copper sulfate a pond for weed control the results are pretty immediate.

 

[Passepartout]

The copper sulphate is not a 'solution', but fairly large crystals- like about the size of the last joint of your little finger. 1/2" or bigger- like pebbles. They pretty well get tangled up in the roots and kill them without harming the tree. You can get them at Home Depot and try without spending a fortune. It does take periodic treatments, consisting of dumping a quantity into a toilet and flushing enough times to move them down the line. Big deal!

Around here a sewer outfit does a good business of rooting out sewer lines then using mechanical or hydraulic means, expands the existing line, then driving a new, seamless liner into it without excessive excavation. Ours is something like 12 feet underground and they opened and relined it for some distance- like close to 100 feet. It did take a trench perhaps 12-15 feet long, but sure beat tearing up landscaping for 100 feet.

Jim

 

[geekette]

I guess I am one of those nasty tree lovers as my property has many very old, very large trees. I am not about to chop them down to prevent a problem that someone may or may not have. trimming of the trees has nothing to do with where the roots go, so that bit is simply "piling on".

Trimming of the trees to prevent large limbs from falling on houses is a completely different matter, and my neighbor has ongoing permission from me to trim whatever trees on my property interfere with his safety. It's an enormous favor to me since he does it himself and I can save whatever per-tree cost there might be x maybe a dozen trees that overhang to his yard, but only 3-4 near enough to his house to be an issue.

Trimming large trees is absolutely expensive and a big reason why I don't get the tree trimmers out annually to service 50+ trees, and I don't care what name someone calls me. no, just deal with the ones that may cause actual damage to a house. Seems to me that for thousands of years trees have had long lives without regular trimming so I think they can be healthy without suffering gaping wounds annually. But, ya know, I'm a mean ole tree lover.

 

[SMHarman]

From previous experience, the general rule we were told - at least here in Washington - is that damage from trees, even a neighbors trees, is a natural occurrence for which the neighbor has no liability. The exception is if the tree is diseased or damaged such that it is a hazard and the neighbor is aware of the situation. In that case the neighbor would have constructive knowledge of the issue and would have liability.

I was advised that if I had concerns, I should hire a professional arborist to assess the neighbors, then give the arborist's report to my neighbor.

As for tree roots in the sewer, as others have pointed out that's just a normal event. It falls in the category of stuff happens in life that isn't anybody's fault and you just deal with it.

You raise an important point for above ground damage. All owners should maintain their trees so the crown size and height is appropriate to the root system and lopped or pollarded with sufficient frequency otherwise a storm will take the tree down and cause bigger problems.

Roots, yeah, you know what you know and really you don't have much to stand on here. Be grateful it is the drainage, not the house foundations they are infiltrating.

 

[pjrose]

Thinking of my wooded neighborhood and our pipes...

This thread makes me wonder about our sewer pipes in our totally wooded neighborhood. I don't know how tall the trees are....but I'd guess 100' .....mostly oaks and some maples, I think. Our sewer pipes go right under/through maybe 200-250 feet of woods on our property before the street.

No problems yet in 25 years (except from freezing once), but???? The same would apply to all the ~250+ houses in this development and I haven't heard of any issues.....

What should be pipes be made of to avoid tree root problems? What materials were typically used in 1970? Apart from cutting down trees, which is not happening, what if any precautions or preventative maintenance should we do?