Need Advice - Upgrade offer from HGVC

[Gchumway25]

Ok here's the deal. We currently own 5000 points at HGVC at Seaworld- Silver season. We also have 5000 pts at Hilton Club NY which is more less a lease that we have had for 4 years. So I believe we have 21 years left. Our total maintenance fees are about $1800 per year. We did all this before we found this site. So it looks like over paid. But what's done is done.

So HGVC is offering to let us trade in both properties for 14,000 pts ,2 2bedroom units platinum season at Tuscany Resort for a cost of $66,980 and maintenace of $1958 per year. Also they are throwing in 20,000 or so bonus points.

After trade in and owners loyalty bonus the net cost to us is about $20,000.
What is compelling to us is the ability to trade in NY. Since it's a lease that will eventually end the value is going to zero. I looked at some of the resale offers at NY and it looks like we would lose roughly $10,000 plus if we just sold it.

The kicker is that supposedly after this month Hilton will not allow trade in of the NY Club. So time is short.

From what I have read on these boards it sounds like upgrade offers aren't a good deal.

Any opinions would be much appreciated. I apologize for the long winded posting.

Thank you.

 

[UWSurfer]

Resale platinum has averaged $1.60 a point, so 14,000 points comes to $22,400 plus closing costs, so you are slightly ahead of the game right off the bat. Bonus points aren't worth all that much, but again if you already are ahead they are a nice sweetener.

That silver season gives you full maintenance fee's for not alot of points. I'm not sure how easy/hard it is to trade into NY...that entire setup is pretty foreign to me.

If I were you, I'd have a conversation with Seth Nock to see if this works out the way you were promised. He's an authorized resale broker and has ton's of experience with Hilton.

My anti-developer knee jerk reaction kicked in immediately when reading your message, but if it's really $20,000 to you it sounds like you are about the equivalent buying resale and getting rid of at least one lower valued (silver season) week in the process. You could sell the silver yourself but aren't likely to get much for it. This offer might make sense.

 

[PigsDad]

Ok here's the deal. We currently own 5000 points at HGVC at Seaworld- Silver season. We also have 5000 pts at Hilton Club NY which is more less a lease that we have had for 4 years. So I believe we have 21 years left. Our total maintenance fees are about $1800 per year. We did all this before we found this site. So it looks like over paid. But what's done is done.

So HGVC is offering to let us trade in both properties for 14,000 pts ,2 2bedroom units platinum season at Tuscany Resort for a cost of $66,980 and maintenace of $1958 per year. Also they are throwing in 20,000 or so bonus points.

After trade in and owners loyalty bonus the net cost to us is about $20,000.
What is compelling to us is the ability to trade in NY. Since it's a lease that will eventually end the value is going to zero. I looked at some of the resale offers at NY and it looks like we would lose roughly $10,000 plus if we just sold it.

Just so you know, you could purchase 14K points on the resale market for around $22K -- probably less. Then you could sell your Seaworld and Hilton club and pocket that money.

But I have to ask: Why? Are you simply looking for more points? Getting rid of the Hilton Club would then mean that it would be very hard for you to ever get a Hilton Club reservation again. For non-owners, it is very difficult to get into a NY property.

If you are just looking for more points, perhaps you should consider selling your seaworld property and buying (resale, of course) a 7000 or 8400 point property in platinum season at one of the Florida or Las Vegas properties. Your total MFs will probably not go up much because of the points being Platinum instead of Silver.

The kicker is that supposedly after this month Hilton will not allow trade in of the NY Club. So time is short.

Let me guess -- a salesperson told you that. :hysterical: They will always tell you something (lies) that try to "push" you to move faster on your decision. I highly doubt that statement is true.

From what I have read on these boards it sounds like upgrade offers aren't a good deal.

Any opinions would be much appreciated. I apologize for the long winded posting.

The only advantage of going w/ Hilton and their upgrade offer is that it will make you eligible for an Elite membership. You would have to decide if that is worth it to you. From my estimation, you would probably be spending $10-20K more going with the upgrade deal than to just sell and buy resale.

Kurt

 

[Gchumway25]

We like NY but NY made more sense for us when we lived 3 hours away and could go there for a weekend. Now we are much less likely since we live in TN.

Also, it seems like since it's a lease we are better off switching to something that we would have a deed to. I think. All these nuances are what are finding to be challenging to figure out.

You are also right a salesmen did tell us the deadline. But when we have asked in the past about being able to trade in NY there answer has been no. So when this came up it caught our attention.

 

[DEROS]

Ok here's the deal. We currently own 5000 points at HGVC at Seaworld- Silver season. We also have 5000 pts at Hilton Club NY which is more less a lease that we have had for 4 years. So I believe we have 21 years left. Our total maintenance fees are about $1800 per year. We did all this before we found this site. So it looks like over paid. But what's done is done.

So HGVC is offering to let us trade in both properties for 14,000 pts ,2 2bedroom units platinum season at Tuscany Resort for a cost of $66,980 and maintenace of $1958 per year. Also they are throwing in 20,000 or so bonus points.

After trade in and owners loyalty bonus the net cost to us is about $20,000.
What is compelling to us is the ability to trade in NY. Since it's a lease that will eventually end the value is going to zero. I looked at some of the resale offers at NY and it looks like we would lose roughly $10,000 plus if we just sold it.

The kicker is that supposedly after this month Hilton will not allow trade in of the NY Club. So time is short.

From what I have read on these boards it sounds like upgrade offers aren't a good deal.

Any opinions would be much appreciated. I apologize for the long winded posting.

Thank you.

This is a tough one because you have two TS purchased at full price. The lowest I have seen 9600pt HGVC TS in the resale market is about $24000. So, buying 9600pts to boost your total to 14,500pts doesn't look as good as your upgrade offer. It looks like they are giving you a $46000 trade in value. Which in my opinion they are giving you $5000 for you Seaworld, which is about the resale price of Silver season Seaworld and $41,000 for your Hilton Club NY, which could be reasonable resale value depending on what you own. With $46000 you can buy in the resale market a 14400pt property.

Here is a decision matrix think about:
Do you think you can sell your two TS within a reasonable time for $46000 in the secondary market? If Yes, then sell both TS and buy 14000pts+ in the secondary market and save the $20000 upgrade fee. If no, how much do you think you can sell it for? As the selling price goes lower towards $26000, then you should consider HGVC offer to upgrade for $20000.

Also, instead of 2 units, ask if they would give you 1 14400 pt unit in Kingland or Waikikian for the same $20000 upgrade cost. This will give you elite status. Also, I would rather own 1 unit with a lot of points, than 2 units to make alot of points. However this is just my preference.

I guess I gave you a winded answer.

Deros

 

[Bill4728]

I'm with the guys who say the HGVC upgrade isn't very good.

You have 10,000 pts but 5000 of those are NY points which IMHO are much different and more valuable than regular HGVC points.

If you are just looking for more points, perhaps you should consider selling your seaworld property and buying (resale, of course) a 7000 or 8400 point property in platinum season at one of the Florida or Las Vegas properties. Your total MFs will probably not go up much because of the points being Platinum instead of Silver.

Personally, I'm with Pigsdad. Sell your silver points and buy platinum. You'll have the lower MFs but 2000 more points. ( 5000 silver = 3 bd vs 7000 Platinum = 2 bd). I wouldn't worry about the RTU NY TS. It will have significant value till about 10 years before the RTU is up. Worry about it then. If you want more pts than the net 2000 (5000 silver vs 7000 plat) you could buy a resale at HGVC Waikoloa, They have some 9800 platinum weeks.

Good Luck

 

[alwysonvac]

Here's how I see it....you would be paying $20,000 for an extra 2,000 annual HGVC points, one time bonus points, elite status, and a higher annual maintenance fee with no access to the Hilton Club NY in the future. It won't be worth it to me.

Today you own 5,000 Hilton Club Point. Based on an old 2007 point redemption chart, 4,800 Hilton Club City points gets you a 2 bedroom in platinum season under the original HGVC point structure. That's equivalent to 7,000 HGVC points. I'm also assuming your NY Hilton Club membership also gives you Gold HHonors status. I'm not sure if this applies to you but some of the hilton club owners with at least 9,000 city points have reported that they were under the impression that they had a higher (elite like) status than other HGVC owners.

I'm assuming you were able to add your HGVC Orlando 5,000 GOLD (not silver) membership to your Hilton Club account, eliminating the cost of an extra annual club fee. I believe the annual Hilton NY Club Fee is higher than the HGVC club fee but overall I think all other fees are about the same. You can verify by comparing your Hilton Club Fee Schedule with the HGVC Fee Schedule.
NOTE: I'm assuming you own a Gold not Silver in Orlando since there are no 5,000 silver point units unless you meant that you had 4,800 silver point unit.

I could be wrong but honestly, I expect 20 years from now the resale value for the existing HGVC resorts in Orlando and Vegas will be worth close to nothing. There will either be newer and/or better lodging options in the Orlando and Las Vegas area to choose from.

 

[Gchumway25]

Is a good rule of thumb to use in valuing incentive points. It looks like we will end up with about 34,000 incentive points if we do the upgrade. Which sounds like a lot but how do you put a value on them?

 

[kckreardon]

I am not a pro at resale vs. upgrade but I can tell you after owning Hilton since 1997 we have made great use of it and we now have 14,000 points. Maint. fees are a critical factor in my mind if you plan on holding for a long period of time. If you are not factoring in the bonus points into the $20,000 you indicated this would cost you net it seems like you might be getting close to something that might work for you. I think talking to Seth is a great idea as suggested above.

 

[UWSurfer]

Upon reflection I have another bit of thought on the subject. My first reply is one direction...which is the offer might work for you.

On the other hand....you've already spent a fair amount of money with HGVC, and as stated the end result would be 2,000 additional points for $20K...which frankly is money that can be used in a number of ways. You also are providing mixed signals regarding NY as to whether its of continued value to you.

IF you want to continue booking NY, then I'd offer up that you continue with that lease and use it. Look at selling off the Silver season and pickup up a gold or platinum week on the resale market for whatever point target you are looking for. Gold is about $1 a point, Platinum again around $1.60.

One other option is you pickup a non-HGVC property for under $1,000 which is in RCI and then exchange into HGVC, provided you don't need holiday or high demand periods. This then provides you with the best of both worlds, RCI offerings including HGVC & DVC among others, you spend 1/20th or so of this proposal and you still have NY. Regarding the lease vs: deed...you'll have to project where you will be in 20 years and whether you'll still want to be using this property then. The advanatage to the lease is you get to walk away at the end of the term.

Nothing against HGVC...I have two weeks and we love the system, but there are ways to get into the properties and hold on to most of the proposed $20K.

It all depends on what works for you.

 

[alwysonvac]

According to the 2009 HGVC Membership Guide, Bonus Points cannot be used to reserve accomodations during the Home Resort week or Club Reservation window. Bonus points cannot be transferred or assigned and cannot be borrowed or deposited into next year's account. You can convert your HGVC Bonus points to HHonor points. This would give you 850,000 HHonor points (if you get 25 HHonor points for each HGVC point) - see HHonors VIP award chart http://hhonors1.hilton.com/ts/en_US/hh/media/pdf/VIPOnlyRewardsChart2009.pdf
See page 143 of the Membership Guide for the entire list of rules regarding Bonus points - http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/

You might feel better by talking with Seth about your options. Seth's TUG username is "Seth Nock".
Seth is one of the TUG recommended HGVC resale agents - see http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88428.

Good Luck