Need advice on possible timeshare purchase dynamics

[brp]

Hi folks,

I've purchased a number of timeshares (resale, of course ) to this point, but there's always been a broker involved, either a "main" broker or someone who is lesser known, but still reputable.

I'm not looking at a possible deal where these details are less clear. I have received some information on the process, and want to see if the experts here see any red flags to this.

Basically, it's price plus $149 for closing, which is reasonable. They want cash instrument, but will take credit card for 5% surcharge, which is not unreasonable.

However, they want full payment up front, even before submitting for possible ROFR (this is uncommon for me).
They will send estoppel, but with owner information blacked out. I usually get estoppel with names. Is a blacked-out document proof of anything?

Also, they will be using National Resort Title, which I've not heard of. Reviews on this company are mixed.

Using a CC, I figure I have some protection. But are there any points here that should make me walk away, or does it seem reasonable for a non-broker sort of thing?

Cheers.

 

[CPNY]

Hi folks,

I've purchased a number of timeshares (resale, of course ) to this point, but there's always been a broker involved, either a "main" broker or someone who is lesser known, but still reputable.

I'm not looking at a possible deal where these details are less clear. I have received some information on the process, and want to see if the experts here see any red flags to this.

Basically, it's price plus $149 for closing, which is reasonable. They want cash instrument, but will take credit card for 5% surcharge, which is not unreasonable.

However, they want full payment up front, even before submitting for possible ROFR (this is uncommon for me).
They will send estoppel, but with owner information blacked out. I usually get estoppel with names. Is a blacked-out document proof of anything?

Also, they will be using National Resort Title, which I've not heard of. Reviews on this company are mixed.

Using a CC, I figure I have some protection. But are there any points here that should make me walk away, or does it seem reasonable for a non-broker sort of thing?

Cheers.

I have also purchased from lesser known “brokers” and have received estoppels with blacked out names prior to sending in any payments. I’ve also seen in the listing that credit card payments would incur a transaction fee. Usually it was never actually charged though.

what you’re laying out, isn’t exactly uncommon. I’ve purchased on eBay and payment was required within 24 hours of auction end.

it’s hard to give advice because who knows who you’re dealing with. Is it a listing on redweek? Another reputable site? Ebay seller with no reviews?

 

[brp]

I have also purchased from lesser known “brokers” and have received estoppels with blacked out names prior to sending in any payments. I’ve also seen in the listing that credit card payments would incur a transaction fee. Usually it was never actually charged though.

what you’re laying out, isn’t exactly uncommon. I’ve purchased on eBay and payment was required within 24 hours of auction end.

it’s hard to give advice because who knows who you’re dealing with. Is it a listing on redweek? Another reputable site? Ebay seller with no reviews?

Thanks. And sorry for being secretive about this. I just know that posting too much info about a possible good deal here on TUG leads to competition

This is an eBay listing. I did look at the seller name with a global Google search and, of course, it brought be to a different thread here on TUG referring to this seller as a likely scammer. So, hackles are raised. I just don't know how much risk I'm exposed to if I do use a CC and it goes south. My CC experiences (thankfully very few) have been good in this area).

Cheers.

 

[CPNY]

Thanks. And sorry for being secretive about this. I just know that posting too much info about a possible good deal here on TUG leads to competition

This is an eBay listing. I did look at the seller name with a global Google search and, of course, it brought be to a different thread here on TUG referring to this seller as a likely scammer. So, hackles are raised. I just don't know how much risk I'm exposed to if I do use a CC and it goes south. My CC experiences (thankfully very few) have been good in this area).

Cheers.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[bogey21]

FWIW I probably bought (and later divested) 35 to 40 low cost TS Weeks. I never saw an estoppel and dealt with a multitude of sellers, etc. I would always call the Resort and find out what I could. Sometimes they were helpful, sometimes not. I always paid up front on blind faith and never lost any money. Two or three times I had issues but they were always resolved. My biggest problem was buying sight unseen and being disappointed when I finally got to visit the Resort. My advice is if you are dealing with only a couple hundred dollars, do whatever due diligence you can an take a shot...

George

 

[brp]

FWIW I probably bought (and later divested) 35 to 40 low cost TS Weeks. I never saw an estoppel and dealt with a multitude of sellers, etc. I would always call the Resort and find out what I could. Sometimes they were helpful, sometimes not. I always paid up front on blind faith and never lost any money. Two or three times I had issues but they were always resolved. My biggest problem was buying sight unseen and being disappointed when I finally got to visit the Resort. My advice is if you are dealing with only a couple hundred dollars, do whatever due diligence you can an take a shot...

George

Thanks. In this case I know the resort. And this is more like $3000. For a few hundred, I'd defnitely roll the dice. I guess estoppel has the contract number, so I might be able to find out something from the TS company. This is "low cost" relative to its general resale value, but not "low cost" in an absolute sense.

Cheers.

 

[bnoble]

Is the seller dictating the closing company?

 

[brp]

Is the seller dictating the closing company?

Yes. National Resort Title, in Sevierville, TN, a location that has bad press on TUG for scams or, at best, shady practices. Perhaps I can try and request a company I trust and be willing to pay higher fees there?

Cheers.

 

[bnoble]

You can, and that's what I was going to suggest as a reputable closing company will also hold the funds in escrow.

But, this sounds like a situation in which the closing company is not at arms length with the seller, and the seller knows they are under market price and will likely wait to sell to someone else who is willing to play ball. Worth a try, but expect the seller to say no.

I think it comes down to whether or not you'd be willing to risk the $3K in exchange for a below-market deal. This probably goes through okay, but you'll be doing without some of the normal protections.

 

[brp]

Won't send a copy of estoppel or a copy of the contract as reference prior to close of bidding. Others have been willing to send stuff prior to getting any payment as proof. So, all there is a listing with nothing behind it. I guess, since winner has 72 hours to pay, there's tine to verify stuff.

Cheers.

 

[echino]

Is it an expensive timeshare? You said $149 for closing, but what is the total price? That entity has some cheap timeshares that they sell for almost nothing, which they got from their affiliated "exit company". I would not worry about those. But they also sell some expensive stuff that they don't have. Totally fraudulent. If you pay with a cash instrument, your money is gone. If you pay by a credit card, they will delay by many weeks until you are past dispute deadline with your credit card. They sent me a fake "estoppel" which they produced themselves with blacked out owner names.

 

[brp]

Thanks for the reply. This one is in teh $3K range, so not cheap. They declined to send an estoppel copy now (others have done that) and won't even send a copy of their contract form until after the auction ends. Of course, I have 72 hours to pay, and they'd presumably send it prior to that. But, as you say, they could easily fake the estoppel so, as far as I can tell, that provides no proof/protection. Not really sure what does provide solid proof.

However, I think a comment like "totally fraudulent" speaks for itself...

especially as more suspicious listings are starting to show up.

I had bit it up by like $900 yesterday, but kept getting topped by prior auto-bids. Can't even be sure if those are legit. Think I'll just watch from the sidelines.

Not really sure, in the larger sense, how to reliably know a good deal from a scam there since proof is so hard to validate.

Cheers.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Thanks for the reply. This one is in teh $3K range, so not cheap. They declined to send an estoppel copy now (others have done that) and won't even send a copy of their contract form until after the auction ends. Of course, I have 72 hours to pay, and they'd presumably send it prior to that. But, as you say, they could easily fake the estoppel so, as far as I can tell, that provides no proof/protection. Not really sure what does provide solid proof.

However, I think a comment like "totally fraudulent" speaks for itself...

especially as more suspicious listings are starting to show up.

I had bit it up by like $900 yesterday, but kept getting topped by prior auto-bids. Can't even be sure if those are legit. Think I'll just watch from the sidelines.

Not really sure, in the larger sense, how to reliably know a good deal from a scam there since proof is so hard to validate.

Cheers.

If it's a "Private Listing -- Bidders Identity Protected" then stay away from it. The seller's friends can push the bidding up and up, and you would never know who is doing bidding against you. They call that Shill bidding. Shill bidding is illegal but I suspect it is done frequently on eBay.

If you do bid on it and win, then mail your payment via the USPS and do not use a credit card. If you should need a refund down the line you can get the United States Postal Inspection Service involved if they don't perform or provide a prompt refund. It is called MAIL FRAUD if any part of the transaction uses the USPS, and the seller does not perform. Mail Fraud is a Federal Crime!

Keep us posted on your bidding results and progress.




.

 

[brp]

If it's a "Private Listing -- Bidders Identity Protected" then stay away from it. The seller's friends can push the bidding up and up, and you would never know who is doing bidding against you. They call that Shill bidding. Shill bidding is illegal but I suspect it is done frequently on eBay.

If you do bid on it and win, then mail your payment via the USPS and do not use a credit card. If you should need a refund down the line you can get the United States Postal Inspection Service involved if they don't perform or provide a prompt refund. It is called MAIL FRAUD if any part of the transaction uses the USPS, and the seller does not perform. Mail Fraud is a Federal Crime!

Keep us posted on your bidding results and progress.

.

Thanks. Based on some feedback about this seller on another thread, I'm unlikely to go forward. If I did, I would unquestionably use a credit card. If I give them cash, I'd have to kiss it goodbye. I understand what you're saying, but have zero faith in that actually working. But I do have faith in my credit cards

Cheers.

 

[dgalati]

Thanks. Based on some feedback about this seller on another thread, I'm unlikely to go forward. If I did, I would unquestionably use a credit card. If I give them cash, I'd have to kiss it goodbye. I understand what you're saying, but have zero faith in that actually working. But I do have faith in my credit cards

Cheers.

For the cost $149 what do you have to lose? My first purchase was for $600 a annual 154,000 Grand Desert Deed. My uncle was worried what if the seller didn't deliver as promised. I told him it no big deal I only have $600 on the line to lose! I just bought some additional Worldmark points. Seller did not provide all info but the price was right. $600 all in for a 20k ownership with 36k points available. I considered the risk vs reward. Called Wyndham today and all was as described. Sometimes you just have to take a chance and believe all will be good.

 

[brp]

For the cost $149 what do you have to lose? My first purchase was for $600 a annual 154,000 Grand Desert Deed. My uncle was worried what if the seller didn't deliver. I told him it no big deal I only have $600 on the line to lose!

Naw, that's just the closing costs. I'd do that in a heartbeat. Wouldn't have even bugged all y'all for that

It's more like $3Kish by the time this closes. More thinking needed.

Cheers.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Thanks. Based on some feedback about this seller on another thread, I'm unlikely to go forward. If I did, I would unquestionably use a credit card. If I give them cash, I'd have to kiss it goodbye. I understand what you're saying, but have zero faith in that actually working. But I do have faith in my credit cards

Cheers.

You have a valid point, but I would prefer putting them out of business and attaching some metal bracelets to their wrists.....


.

 

[dgalati]

Naw, that's just the closing costs. I'd do that in a heartbeat. Wouldn't have even bugged all y'all for that

It's more like $3Kish by the time this closes. More thinking needed.

Cheers.

You can find a better deal then that. Patience is rewarded.

 

[brp]

You can find a better deal then that. Patience is rewarded.

Oh, I'm willing to wait, but this really is a good and hardish-to-find price for this. But no hurry. MFs are coming due soon

Cheers.

 

[Mongoose]

Thanks. Based on some feedback about this seller on another thread, I'm unlikely to go forward. If I did, I would unquestionably use a credit card. If I give them cash, I'd have to kiss it goodbye. I understand what you're saying, but have zero faith in that actually working. But I do have faith in my credit cards

Cheers.

I would see if they would take a $500 good faith deposit. I certainly would not send $3,000 cash. The 5% credit card fee is higher than the norm, but may be good insurance. Also, always remember there is another deal behind this one. Don't get overly invested in the auction. Its easily done. I saw two today, where they were bidding up a unit for more than the Buy It Now price for an identical unit. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[brp]

I would see if they would take a $500 good faith deposit. I certainly would not send $3,000 cash. The 5% credit card fee is higher than the norm, but may be good insurance. Also, always remember there is another deal behind this one. Don't get overly invested in the auction. Its easily done. I saw two today, where they were bidding up a unit for more than the Buy It Now price for an identical unit. Doesn't make any sense.

Nope. They said "no deposits." First red flag And it's already been bid up to just about what I would pay anyway, with 5 hours left. And I do have a feeling it's shill bids. I've asked the seller a number of questions, so he may think he's got me on the hook...and he did for a while. Now I'm just a spectator.

And, we don't actually need the points until 2023 when we have time to use more points, So 2021 points are a loss. 2022 can be banked to 2023. I figured if, because of the Covid thing, I could get a really good deal, then eating the 2021 MFs could be worth it. But the urgency is not there...

Cheers.

 

[alexadeparis]

Thanks. And sorry for being secretive about this. I just know that posting too much info about a possible good deal here on TUG leads to competition

This is an eBay listing. I did look at the seller name with a global Google search and, of course, it brought be to a different thread here on TUG referring to this seller as a likely scammer. So, hackles are raised. I just don't know how much risk I'm exposed to if I do use a CC and it goes south. My CC experiences (thankfully very few) have been good in this area).

Cheers.

I see your risk as the purchase price at worst if there is no way to do a chargeback on the credit card. If the timeshare is worth more than that to you, go for it. I have done some deals that I was a little skittish of, but they always, except one so far, have worked out. I have lost no money so far, just time. But for a $3,000 outlay that’s a pretty big risk, I would really want that estoppel first.

 

[echino]

I see that I am blocked by this seller on eBay, even though I never dealt with them. But I dealt with these scammers under a different eBay name, so they blocked me under their new account as well.