My Gold holiday week is not what i thought

[heatherw]

We bought a gold holiday week in Mallorca many years ago now and have been very happy with it. We paid extra to get the gold holiday because you can book into the gold week plus some weeks that 'shoulder' them which coincide with the school holidays.
Having been to a presentation today to discuss the new points system I expressed disappointment that the gold holiday weeks get less points than the gold weeks. I was told that this is because the demand for the gold weeks are higher. Fine i replied, but those are our weeks as well as we can book them in addition to the gold holiday. The the bombshell was dropped... Oh no you only own the gold holiday with the opportunity to book into gold holiday where there is availability and this is about 4% !!!!! he went on to say that of course they don't give out the figure of 4%. I need to go home and check my paperwork but am cross because this is not what we were told when we bought. In fact we have holidayed here in gold weeks and so in reality it has not been a problem.
Then they still had the cheek to ask us to buy more weeks :annoyed:

 

[MALC9990]

We bought a gold holiday week in Mallorca many years ago now and have been very happy with it. We paid extra to get the gold holiday because you can book into the gold week plus some weeks that 'shoulder' them which coincide with the school holidays.
Having been to a presentation today to discuss the new points system I expressed disappointment that the gold holiday weeks get less points than the gold weeks. I was told that this is because the demand for the gold weeks are higher. Fine i replied, but those are our weeks as well as we can book them in addition to the gold holiday. The the bombshell was dropped... Oh no you only own the gold holiday with the opportunity to book into gold holiday where there is availability and this is about 4% !!!!! he went on to say that of course they don't give out the figure of 4%. I need to go home and check my paperwork but am cross because this is not what we were told when we bought. In fact we have holidayed here in gold weeks and so in reality it has not been a problem.
Then they still had the cheek to ask us to buy more weeks :annoyed:

Hi heather, I was told the same thing when I enrolled whilst at Son Antem back in June. I only own Gold Weeks at Son Antem - even so I was surprised when told that the Gold Holiday weeks were given fewer points than a Gold Week. I obviously asked how come? I got a very similar answer- I was told that the points values assigned to weeks were decided based upon a range of factors but that demand for booking the weeks was a factor. When I asked how demand was assessed, the answer was that it was a combination of historical reservation demand at Son Antem and the demand for II exchanges for the various seasons. To be honest if I had been a Gold Holiday owner then I would have been as upset as you obviously are. Since Gold Holiday weeks were more expensive when purchased from MVCI it would seem sensible that they attract a higher point value. Certainly, Plat weeks get a much higher point value.

I went on to ask how the system could work anyway. Since the resort is virtually sold out - they must have sold all the Gold Weeks and all the Gold Holiday weeks. So if any Gold Holiday week owner reserves a Gold week - that would mean that there is one too few Gold weeks available for the Gold Week owners, if that were extended and 100 Gold weeks were reserved in any year by Gold Holiday week owners then there would be 100 too few Gold Weeks for Gold week owners too reserve. If as you say the limit is 4% of the Gold Weeks for Gold Holiday owners to reserve, then for any particular week in the Gold Season there would be 8 or 9 units available for Gold Holiday owners to reserve since there are 224 units at Son Antem.

The answer - seemed too glib for my liking - was that it never becomes a problem since enough Gold Week owners surrender their weeks for MR points each year to ensure that there are enough weeks for the remaining Gold week owners.

However there are certain Gold week periods that are often over subscribed very quickly 12 months ahead - these being the 3 Gold weeks at the end of June. Often by late July the previous year there is little or no availability at this time when a Gold week owner tries to book.

How this lack of availability could also be due to high demand from Gold week owners - like myself- who always vacation in Son Antem in June. However since the weeks that follow this short Gold Season are Gold Holiday Weeks, I am sure that the impact of Gold Holiday owners reserving Gold Season Weeks in June must be there to some effect. This is also likely since school holidays in the UK start before the end of the Gold Season weeks in June.

Finally when I bought my first two Gold weeks in Son Antem, no one ever told me that I was also going to be competing against the Gold Holiday Week owners for my season weeks.

My other question that was not answered was "What happens to those Gold Holiday weeks that go unreserved. If 100 Gold Holiday week owners each reserve a Gold Week - that must leave 100 Gold Holiday weeks that will go unused - who gets them - my guess is that they go to MVCI when they exercise their privilege of taking unreserved weeks at a certain point in time before the check in dates.

Those unreserved Gold Holiday weeks are not available to Gold Week owners nor to Plat week owners.

We also were asked to buy more weeks - but I said I would if the price for a silver week was £2000 - which is about what I would expect to pay for a resale - you can imagine the response from the sales rep - all the usual BS about not being the same as a week from Marriott - in the end he recognised that I had all the weeks I needed.

 

[Bill4728]

The salesman's statement " Oh no you only own the gold holiday with the opportunity to book into gold holiday where there is availability and this is about 4%" The first part of the statement is true (gold holiday have the opportunity to book into gold where there is availability) BUT I'd bet that the availability is a lot more than 4%.

The fact is that for any season, the same is true, Gold and platinum owners can only book in gold and platinum season based on availability. If as a gold holiday owner, you tried to book a gold holiday week at the last minute, they will likely tell you that you may not be able to book due to no availability.

 

[MALC9990]

The salesman's statement " Oh no you only own the gold holiday with the opportunity to book into gold holiday where there is availability and this is about 4%" The first part of the statement is true (gold holiday have the opportunity to book into gold where there is availability) BUT I'd bet that the availability is a lot more than 4%.

The fact is that for any season, the same is true, Gold and platinum owners can only book in gold and platinum season based on availability. If as a gold holiday owner, you tried to book a gold holiday week at the last minute, they will likely tell you that you may not be able to book due to no availability.

So what do the Gold Week owners do when all the Gold Week availability is taken up by Gold Holiday week owners - and what happens to the unused Gold Holiday weeks that go unreserved ?

Being told there is no availability is unacceptable if weeks have been taken out of season.

 

[jerseyfinn]

Hi heather, I was told the same thing when I enrolled whilst at Son Antem back in June . . . . . . . When I asked how demand was assessed, the answer was that it was a combination of historical reservation demand at Son Antem and the demand for II exchanges for the various seasons. . . . . I went on to ask how the system could work anyway. Since the resort is virtually sold out - they must have sold all the Gold Weeks and all the Gold Holiday weeks.

You're correct to note that the inability to utilize the "power" of a gold holiday week has now been greatly diminished, and that the root cause is an availible inventory issue.

But I think there is a better question that you Europe owners should be asking Marriott. What percentage of gold and gold holiday weeks are owned by legacy week owners and what percentage of this inventory is now owned by the Marriott Trust which is the arbiter of the "new and improved" VC points system. This is the question I would fire off to your GMs at all of the Europe Marriott resorts ( and you must ask what the breakdown is for each season & view ).

My point is that demand for gold and gold holiday weeks were likely quite competitive in the past, but some wiggle room did exist to move laterally from gold holiday to gold. Today, all of the unsold inventory in all seasons have now been subsumed into the Marriott Trust. IOW, you are not necessarily competing against other legacy timeshare owners ( although this does remain an important factor as Interval & MR points do impact how and where inventory moves ) . . . . you are also likely being shut out from some access because the Trust is now the holder whatever inventory was left.

So Marriott both gives and takes with this move to VC points and there are indeed impacts upon legacy owners. Ask the right questions of Marriott and see if Marriott "wiggles" when they answer you.

We too own weeks at Marbella and Playa Andaluza, and we were also surprised at the relative low VC point value we are offered, especially for our platinum weeks at Playa. That said, I have yet to ask Playa and Marbella resort how much of the inventory, season-by-season, is now owned by the Trust ( we did not venture to Playa this summer & traded instead so I never got to see our GMs ).

Remember that Marriott is now running parallel destination travel programs. While parallel lines never cross, I'm not so sure that Marriott has drawn straight lines with all of us and that the Trust is gradually crossing our ownership imperatives up as Marriott is more focused upon selling VC points than owing up to what they sold us years ago.

Learn what the new inventory break downs are and plan accordingly for the future. But don't rely upon sales to answer your questions as they are now all about representing VC points and not legacy owner interests. Posit direct questions to your board of directors and your resort GMs. Marriott should be up front with the distinctions between inventory pools and how they are going to impact your ownership ( the answer of course will also tell you that you need to purchase VC points ).

Barry

 

[MALC9990]

You're correct to note that the inability to utilize the "power" of a gold holiday week has now been greatly diminished, and that the root cause is an availible inventory issue.

But I think there is a better question that you Europe owners should be asking Marriott. What percentage of gold and gold holiday weeks are owned by legacy week owners and what percentage of this inventory is now owned by the Marriott Trust which is the arbiter of the "new and improved" VC points system. This is the question I would fire off to your GMs at all of the Europe Marriott resorts ( and you must ask what the breakdown is for each season & view ).

My point is that demand for gold and gold holiday weeks were likely quite competitive in the past, but some wiggle room did exist to move laterally from gold holiday to gold. Today, all of the unsold inventory in all seasons have now been subsumed into the Marriott Trust. IOW, you are not necessarily competing against other legacy timeshare owners ( although this does remain an important factor as Interval & MR points do impact how and where inventory moves ) . . . . you are also likely being shut out from some access because the Trust is now the holder whatever inventory was left.

So Marriott both gives and takes with this move to VC points and there are indeed impacts upon legacy owners. Ask the right questions of Marriott and see if Marriott "wiggles" when they answer you.

We too own weeks at Marbella and Playa Andaluza, and we were also surprised at the relative low VC point value we are offered, especially for our platinum weeks at Playa. That said, I have yet to ask Playa and Marbella resort how much of the inventory, season-by-season, is now owned by the Trust ( we did not venture to Playa this summer & traded instead so I never got to see our GMs ).

Remember that Marriott is now running parallel destination travel programs. While parallel lines never cross, I'm not so sure that Marriott has drawn straight lines with all of us and that the Trust is gradually crossing our ownership imperatives up as Marriott is more focused upon selling VC points than owing up to what they sold us years ago.

Learn what the new inventory break downs are and plan accordingly for the future. But don't rely upon sales to answer your questions as they are now all about representing VC points and not legacy owner interests. Posit direct questions to your board of directors and your resort GMs. Marriott should be up front with the distinctions between inventory pools and how they are going to impact your ownership ( the answer of course will also tell you that you need to purchase VC points ).

Barry

My understanding is that there are no European weeks in the Trust. In fact as a Brit / European I am not able to buy points at all. Marriott is still selling weeks at Playa and Paris. They do have significant inventory at both resorts. Marbella and Son Antem are essentially sold out with basically only weeks that owners have lost through non payment of MFs for 2 years that have been reclaimed by Marriott for sale. These are all RTU resorts in Europe and so rules about non payment of MFs are strictly enforced. If you miss 2 consecutive years MFs then you lose your week and it reverts to Marriott. Marriott then pay the outstanding MFs and the week is available for sale at developer prices again. Marriott are even offering special prices for weeks. When we enrolled we were offered special deals on a Silver week at Son Antem to boost our available weeks for enrollment. Not a deal that I was attracted to.

So no weeks in the Trust in Europe and the only weeks available for points use are those given up for points by enrolled weeks owners and perhaps some owned by Marriott but NOT in the Trust and also perhaps some weeks taken from II by Marriott to meet requests for points exchange use.

The points values given are lower than I expected but not as low as some US resorts. I enrolled my weeks and have been happy with the results so far as I have said in another thread.

A question I have is that when I give up a week for points how do Marriott decide which actual week is placed into the points exchange inventory. At Son Antem my weeks are Gold season which has two very high demand periods in June and Sept each year. However the deadline for giving up weeks for points will be end Sept each year by which time these high demand weeks will be reserved. So the weeks for use by points exchangers may not be so available as perhaps DC members might hope. This will also be impacted by the fact that so far I seem to be one among only anfew owners who have enrolled their European weeks. Among a circle of about 30 weeks owners at Son Antem that we know well, I know of only 2 who have enrolled along with myself, so availability of enrolled weeks for points exchange might be limited.

 

[heatherw]

Hi malc,
I got my new II card through this week and i queried with them which weeks would be allocated if i gave up something for points becuase on my card it says week 7 for playa ( we have gold membership) and 17 for mallorca.
II went on to say that with marriott they are all floating weeks so there was no difference. I did point out there there clearly is a difference hence they have different point values. I think this just will emphasize the need to book your week before exchanging rather than the other way round.
having said that, with my 'free' week for joining DC i got newport coast for this time next year which i am very happy about.

 

[bazzap]

Hi Heather
Very interesting.
As we enrolled our European weeks after our US weeks, we already had a new II card so never received one with our European week allocation.
Your post prompted me to check our "My Membership" info on the website.
It seems all our allocated weeks do match the season we own.
Whatever II say, I really don't understand why they could not allocate your weeks to match your Gold Holiday ownership.
As you say though for exchanges rather than points usage definitely book your week first.
Great news about Newport Coast too.

 

[MALC9990]

Hi malc,
I got my new II card through this week and i queried with them which weeks would be allocated if i gave up something for points becuase on my card it says week 7 for playa ( we have gold membership) and 17 for mallorca.
II went on to say that with marriott they are all floating weeks so there was no difference. I did point out there there clearly is a difference hence they have different point values. I think this just will emphasize the need to book your week before exchanging rather than the other way round.
having said that, with my 'free' week for joining DC i got newport coast for this time next year which i am very happy about.

That's a good free week - I got an early Oct week in Bangkok Empire Place. Not the best season for Thailand.
The week number on your II registration is probably the notional week and unit you were allocated in your season when you bought the week from Marriott or if they are resales then the notional week and unit allocated when the week was originally bought from Marriott.

 

[jerseyfinn]

My understanding is that there are no European weeks in the Trust . . . Marriott is still selling weeks at Playa and Paris. They do have significant inventory at both resorts. Marbella and Son Antem are essentially sold out with basically only weeks that owners have lost through non payment of MFs for 2 years that have been reclaimed by Marriott for sale. . . . . the only weeks available for points use are those given up for points by enrolled weeks owners and perhaps some owned by Marriott but NOT in the Trust . . . . .

Malcolm,

Thanks so much for the info . I was actually puzzled by how quickly ( and quietly ) Marriott announces VC points availibility for European resorts over here in the States. We did not go to Spain this year so I never got to do my customary sitdown with our resort GM. But I already knew that Marriott faced a lot of issues regarding trying to bring VC points to Europe. So what we are seeing is Marriott's work around to a problem they can not solve.

A question I have is that when I give up a week for points how do Marriott decide which actual week is placed into the points exchange inventory

A good question indeed. I'm told a few years back at Playa that @ 1/5 of owners go the MR points route so this gives a rough hint/guestimate of the amount of inventory Marriott historically controlled in the past. Also remember that Marriott spins off the old MVC product to create a seperate timeshare/destination travel entity here in the States . . . not sure how this relationship is legally defined in Europe or how it functions at the inventory level. Another good question for a GM to answer.

In the past, these MR-deposited weeks were used by Marriott to fulfill a myriad of possible inventory needs ( Marriott.com, MR point redemption stays by non-TS MR folks, resort needs, Interval swaps/trades, promotional uses, employee uses ). I think it safe to assume that the Trust now gets it's hands on some of this inventory as well, but perhaps in a less direct manner given the vagarities of doing this TS business in Europe. Marriott is now operating behind a lot of cover. Perhaps another MMB owner might sit down with Mr de Grebber the next time they visit and ask questions about how the Euro business coexists with the VC program. There still remain inventory issues which ultimately influence ownership on both sides of the pond.

We ourselves had already enrolled our North American resorts which grants access to the internal trading program as well as the ability to convert those USA resort weeks into VC points. Last year we do our usual trade of a Florida week via Interval to go with our gold ownership week at MMB for a 2 week Fall visit at MMB & MUZ. The only "news" last year was that Gold season Sept/early Oct weeks at MMB & MUZ were very competitive as lots of MVC legacy folks want to come down this time of year. For this just-passed 2012 summer, we traded our Playa July weeks via Interval for Oceana Palms and we had a very difficult time completing the trade via Interval . . . it took some calls to Marriott consumer affairs to get some movement on inventory -- I challenged Marriott directly about what influence the Trust had in all of this . . . never got a direct answer but inventory suddenly appeared.

Presently timeshare with Marriott feels akin to Dante's 7th level of Hell with room to go deeper . Legacy trades into N. American resorts now fall completely beneath the influence of the Trust which hides from light of day. It's impossible to get a gauge on how many folks here are trading internally, and how many still use Interval -- the fact the people enroll their weeks does not affirm that these same people are now exclusively trading internally. It's an important question because the key inventory trade factor will ultimately revolve around whether the bulk of MVC owners trade internally ( which destroys the concept of trading power via seasons -- favored by Marriott of course) or if enough folks stick with Interval and create an inventory counter-balance to whatever inventory mischief the Trust creates. In any case, I suspect that Interval's position will gradually weaken in terms of Marriott-for-Marriott trades as legacy owner attrition and the growth of VC points grows in the future ( = more VC points people competing for inventory ). Euro owners are sort of stuck out on a trading ledge. I've asked Marriott point blank about this stuff and they give no answers . . . but you can hear them squirming on the other end of the line .

I was surprised Marriott automatically enrolls our 3 Spain weeks in VC at no charge . . . this I assume because we had already enrolled all of our N American weeks and it was Marriott's inability to solve the Euro resort puzzle which prevents us from enrolling our Euro weeks. We've already converted our three 2013 Spain weeks into VC points and receive confirmed reservations for our summer trip next year ( staying in the USA again ).

Judging by this thread, it now sounds to me as if only enrolled N American owners may convert their Spain weeks into VC points, or trade these weeks internally. In any case, this represents another instance by which inventory leakage away from the legacy program enhances the influence of the Trust even if it does not legally exist in Europe.

This is my best take on things as I try to figure out where we stand.

Barry

 

[MALC9990]

Just on the last point from Jerseyfin post. European based week owners at European resorts can enrols their weeks in the DC but at a price. I enrolled my 5 weeks and already took DC points for three of my weeks and used some points for 2 weeks MFC next year. Also added 2 nights to a week at MMC which was an II exchange in May 2013.

I am sure that trust point owners will get inventory in Europe but it will have to go through the exchange company route and so equivalent trust inventory will have to be placed in the exchange pool to compensate.

 

[bazzap]

And just to complete the picture, for European based owners like us (who also own and had already paid to enrol their US weeks in the DC) they can enrol their European weeks in the DC at no extra cost.

 

[dioxide45]

And just to complete the picture, for European based owners like us (who also own and had already paid to enrol their US weeks in the DC) they can enrol their European weeks in the DC at no extra cost.

I would expect this to be true if you enrolled two or more US domestic weeks. Though if one only enrolled one USA week, there may be an extra fee to enroll a European week which would fall in to the two or more weeks fee structure for enrollment.

 

[bazzap]

Fair comment, that could well be true as we did enrol 3 US weeks.
I didn't even actually know about the "two or more weeks fee structure for enrollment".

 

[cwtkm3]

I enrolled 2 European weeks and 1 US week - still being processed. Price was the original US price $595 I recall.

As for gold holiday owners booking gold weeks; I agree if all GH owners book gold weeks then what happens to the GH weeks? But when we bought GH at Marbella the one attraction for the increased price was that we were allowed to book any gold or gold hol week. We paid a greater premium for this "perk" - as it turns out Marriott messed up the calenders as the last 2 weeks of June are indeed very sought after - maybe they should have been platinum?

Gold hol is great for school half terms but now my kids don't travel so much with us it has become less important and we find ourselves using gold season more. This was considered back in 2002 when we first bought our weeks - we knew one day we wouldn't be taking kids away with us so wanted best option for us. Plat never appealed as hot school hol season but having said that we've easily exchanged GH Marbella and gold Playa for plat weeks at Marbella and Son Antem - that's the name of the game.

I was really "upset" years ago when I met an owner of a £500 Sunterra timeshare boasting how he'd exchanged into Mariott Son Antem platinum plus the French resort for summer hols (plat) the following year. Made me feel I'd been shafted by Marriott having forked out so much but here we are 10 years in and still making our membership work the best possible way for us. I don't think without MVCI we would have had a fraction of the holidays we've had - all for the price of a new executive car! We chose not to change the car!! Still driving the same BMW these past 10 years LOL!!

In summary there's a lot of unfairness with Marriott and wonder at how they manage the inventory - who cares? Just enjoy.

BTW Heather - you will love Newport Coast Villas - we went for 2 weeks summer 2009 - did daily hikes down to Crystal Cove Beach - I want to return but hubbie says NO!!!

 

[MALC9990]

I enrolled 2 European weeks and 1 US week - still being processed. Price was the original US price $595 I recall.

As for gold holiday owners booking gold weeks; I agree if all GH owners book gold weeks then what happens to the GH weeks? But when we bought GH at Marbella the one attraction for the increased price was that we were allowed to book any gold or gold hol week. We paid a greater premium for this "perk" - as it turns out Marriott messed up the calenders as the last 2 weeks of June are indeed very sought after - maybe they should have been platinum?

Gold hol is great for school half terms but now my kids don't travel so much with us it has become less important and we find ourselves using gold season more. This was considered back in 2002 when we first bought our weeks - we knew one day we wouldn't be taking kids away with us so wanted best option for us. Plat never appealed as hot school hol season but having said that we've easily exchanged GH Marbella and gold Playa for plat weeks at Marbella and Son Antem - that's the name of the game.

I was really "upset" years ago when I met an owner of a £500 Sunterra timeshare boasting how he'd exchanged into Mariott Son Antem platinum plus the French resort for summer hols (plat) the following year. Made me feel I'd been shafted by Marriott having forked out so much but here we are 10 years in and still making our membership work the best possible way for us. I don't think without MVCI we would have had a fraction of the holidays we've had - all for the price of a new executive car! We chose not to change the car!! Still driving the same BMW these past 10 years LOL!!

In summary there's a lot of unfairness with Marriott and wonder at how they manage the inventory - who cares? Just enjoy.

BTW Heather - you will love Newport Coast Villas - we went for 2 weeks summer 2009 - did daily hikes down to Crystal Cove Beach - I want to return but hubbie says NO!!!

My concern as a gold week owner is what happens if gold week owners are shut out of their season by gold holiday owners booking gold weeks. This gold holiday owner perk was not explained when we purchased back in 2003. It was just another season to which we were not attracted - not having kids - so not wanting the school half term time for vacations. Quite the opposite we wanted to avoid school break time. It has not affected me so far and perhaps will not since we use our multi week option to book 13 months ahead which always gets the gold weeks we want.

As for the Sunterra owner exchanging in - they only got those weeks because no Marriott owner wanted them in the Marriott preference period so after that they were fair game. I feel that one of the reasons for introducing the internal DC points exchange system is to shut out those external exchangers. The reduced availability in II for Marriott weeks will thus encourage Marriott owners either to seign up to the DC or to ensure they guest the Marriott preference in II. The only way to do that is to plan well in advance (greater than 13 months ahead) and place requests.