MVCHold Only

[Bodie]

Called Customer Service this a.m. re cancelling a MVCOnly reservation 54 days out. The rep I talked to told me if I cancelled those points would be forfeit. It didn't seem right to me so I called a little while later and talked to another CS rep who confirmed the points would go back into the MVC Only account. Had I trusted the initial conversation, I might well have been out a lot of points. This is just to say, check and recheck. No doubt all the CS reps are working under tremendous strain and one must be sympathetic about that. They all try very hard to please. On another note, it would be nice if MVC would expand the use of MVCOnly points to the rest of its portfolio. No doubt they are being so restrictive because the VC properties are bleeding red ink. File this under FYI or TMI.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Wow, that's not very smart of the rep! I suppose if your points expired that day it could be true, not all points are calendar year. I don't know if they would actually have been lost though, the system (hopefully) wouldn't allow that. Must have been a newbie, at least I hope so!

 

[rthib]

On another note, it would be nice if MVC would expand the use of MVCOnly points to the rest of its portfolio. No doubt they are being so restrictive because the VC properties are bleeding red ink. File this under FYI or TMI.

Rest of what portfolio? Are you talking about Vistana and Hyatt? Not aware of any of the MVCI properties that are not useable by Vacation club points. If you are talking hotel properties, those are not owned or managed by MVC so only way to get to those is by converting to Bonvoy.

 

[JIMinNC]

I'm also confused what you are referencing when you say "the rest of the portfolio." I believe the Holding Account points that are generated by a last minute cancellation are usable at all MVC resorts just like regular points, the reservation window is just more limited. No MVC points are currently directly usable at Westin/Sheraton or at the hotels.

I'm also not sure the MVC properties are bleeding red ink. Occupancies have recovered significantly at most VC resorts according to their latest earnings conference call, and the operating costs are fully funded by maintenance fees. While they likely have seen some revenue drop from food/beverage sales at some places, timeshare has been impacted much less than hotels as can be witnessed by Marriott Vacations Worldwide stock trading at $173/share today versus $120/share in late 2019.

 

[Mroze]

You are right about the Stock [VAC] which is up over 250% over the last year.
VAC hit $188 last week, well over the Pre-Covid Peak of $130.
Even the Hotels [MAR] which is up over 100% is not close to the TS [VAC].

 

[Bodie]

Rest of what portfolio? Are you talking about Vistana and Hyatt? Not aware of any of the MVCI properties that are not useable by Vacation club points. If you are talking hotel properties, those are not owned or managed by MVC so only way to get to those is by converting to Bonvoy.

Portfolio meaning everything in the Explorer collection which they offer under normal circumstances. Under “MVC only 120 day” we are restricted to vacation club properties. If I wanted to use points for that which is offered in Explorer on the MVC website (cruises, Collette, etc,) that is not allowed. To me, Explorer is part of the MVC portfolio. It was sold as such during the sales pitch.

 

[Fasttr]

Called Customer Service this a.m. re cancelling a MVCOnly reservation 54 days out.

What is a “MVCOnly” reservation? Is this something special, using plus points or something.

 

[Bodie]

No. This is something special that was created due to COVID. If you cancel a reservation - be it for a MVC property, cruise, Collette etc - within the 60 day window, normally those points go into a holding account that restricts you to a 60 day window to make a reservation but you can use it at any MVC offering (Explorer, airfare, insurance, car rental, etc). MVCOnly means that those points go into a special account that gives you a four month window but can be used only for MVC timeshares (or Pulse). Good news is the four month window vs 60 days, but you can only go to a VC property. That is as I understand it. It is not plus points.

 

[Bodie]

I'm also confused what you are referencing when you say "the rest of the portfolio." I believe the Holding Account points that are generated by a last minute cancellation are usable at all MVC resorts just like regular points, the reservation window is just more limited. No MVC points are currently directly usable at Westin/Sheraton or at the hotels.

I'm also not sure the MVC properties are bleeding red ink. Occupancies have recovered significantly at most VC resorts according to their latest earnings conference call, and the operating costs are fully funded by maintenance fees. While they likely have seen some revenue drop from food/beverage sales at some places, timeshare has been impacted much less than hotels as can be witnessed by Marriott Vacations Worldwide stock trading at $173/share today versus $120/share in late 2019.

Sales are doing well. They have some pretty good deals. Occupancy is another thing. It has picked up. People are making reservations now with the hope that things will be better but reserving the option to cancel. I don't know if MVC counts "bookings" as revenue. (Is that illegal?) There have been openings at properties - at least those where I go - that are normally packed. Maybe "bleeding" was a little dramatic. As to the rest of the portfolio, I am counting everything offered in the Explorer collection - cruises, Collette, airfare, car rental, homes - which, true, they don't own but have a relationship with. Anyway, the whole point of this is that those points sitting in a MVCOnly account mean just that. They can't be used for anything but their time share properties and reservations can't be made more than four months in advance. I've beat this to death so I'll spare everyone anything more.

 

[rthib]

MVCI makes money sales and on management of property. You MF pay them if you stay there or not. Cost for staying at a resort are already part of MF but It costs MVCI to convert points to access bonvoy hotel properties, reason the conversion to those is so bad. The explorer collection is just a sales gimmick.
Holding points are a way to make people feel a little better about having to cancel and since the window is small, those were weeks that were probably not going to be used, so a way to get some value from something that would end up being worthless. But doubt Marriott will take a financial hit by allowing conversion to something that actually cost them money.

 

[taxare]

Not aware of any of the MVCI properties that are not useable by Vacation club points. If you are talking hotel properties, those are not owned or managed by MVC so only way to get to those is by converting to Bonvoy.

Hello, just one data point, the San Francisco Pulse has been closed for months. I've had a couple of reservations cancelled there due to the closure.

 

[Fasttr]

Still trying to understand MVC Only Holding points. See post 6 in this thread.

Use DC points for rental car e-certificates

Just saw this on the opening page after signing in to MVC owners website. Not the best return on your points, but if you have more that you can use, it’s another option..... Car Rentals Owners in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations® Exchange Program can now redeem Vacation Club Points for...

tugbbs.com

Per the quote regarding what points could get the new car rental e-certificates, this was provided to me by MVC chat....

Booking Rules: Vacation Club Points must be available for today's date to purchase e-certificates. 60-day and 120-day Hold Points may be used. Banked, borrowed, and transferred Vacation Club Points may be used. Alternate Usage and Serv Adj Points may also be used. MVC Only Hold Points may not be used. E-certificates may not be transferred or gifted

p.s.... I asked what MVC Only Hold Points were and the response, although not very helpful, was... Special Points, if you have them you are aware.

Clearly there is a difference between normal 60 or 120 day Holding Account points and MVC Only Holding Accounts points. Just trying to understand how you end up with MVC Only Hold points. Is it from cancelling an explorer collection option inside of 60 days?

 

[Bodie]

Thought I was quite clear. But, let me try, again. I cancelled a trip with Collette wherein I used MVC points. Because it was within the 60 day period, those points were returned to what is labeled MVCOnly. Perhaps you have not seen that designation on your personal account MVC website. That means, those points cannot be used for anything other than a VC resort property i.e. Aruba, Hawaii, St Thomas, etc. and cannot be designated for another Collette trip (or cruise, or airfare, etc.). Further, I cannot book those points any sooner than four months ahead. The upside is that there is a four month window - and as of yesterday,, those points are good until December 22 per a rep. Normally any cancellations within the 60 days period goes into an account with the restriction you cannot rebook any earlier than 60 days in advance but they can be used for anything including the Explorer collection. I believe the MVCOnly holding account was done as an answer to COVID. I really don't want to beat this to death. I'm grateful that I do have a way to go with those points, just wish they weren't quite so restrictive. Okay? If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time. Have a good day.

 

[Fasttr]

Thought I was quite clear. But, let me try, again. I cancelled a trip with Collette wherein I used MVC points. Because it was within the 60 day period, those points were returned to what is labeled MVCOnly. Perhaps you have not seen that designation on your personal account MVC website. That means, those points cannot be used for anything other than a VC resort property i.e. Aruba, Hawaii, St Thomas, etc. and cannot be designated for another Collette trip (or cruise, or airfare, etc.). Further, I cannot book those points any sooner than four months ahead. The upside is that there is a four month window - and as of yesterday,, those points are good until December 22 per a rep. Normally any cancellations within the 60 days period goes into an account with the restriction you cannot rebook any earlier than 60 days in advance but they can be used for anything including the Explorer collection. I believe the MVCOnly holding account was done as an answer to COVID. I really don't want to beat this to death. I'm grateful that I do have a way to go with those points, just wish they weren't quite so restrictive. Okay? If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time. Have a good day.

You are correct, I have never heard of MVC Only Holding points until this last week, and this was the 2nd reference, so I was just trying to learn what they were. Now I understand them to be Explorer collection reservations cancelled less than 60 days prior to check in (and may or may not be something that was invented due to Covid....certainly the 120 ones were, but still unsure if such a cancellation pre Covid would have landed you in a 60 day MVC Only holding account situation). Thanks for coming back and clarifying as I am now smarter than I was when I woke up this morning. ;-)

I do tend to agree with you that since your original ressie was an Explorer collection ressie, restricting your holding account points to MVC Only seems excessively restrictive.

And we are seeing lots of references to 2022 extensions for various things, so not sure if that is real or not, but certainly interesting you were told that about your MVC Only Holding points.

 

[Dean]

You are correct, I have never heard of MVC Only Holding points until this last week, and this was the 2nd reference, so I was just trying to learn what they were. Now I understand them to be Explorer collection reservations cancelled less than 60 days prior to check in (and may or may not be something that was invented due to Covid....certainly the 120 ones were, but still unsure if such a cancellation pre Covid would have landed you in a 60 day MVC Only holding account situation). Thanks for coming back and clarifying as I am now smarter than I was when I woke up this morning. ;-)

I do tend to agree with you that since your original ressie was an Explorer collection ressie, restricting your holding account points to MVC Only seems excessively restrictive.

And we are seeing lots of references to 2022 extensions for various things, so not sure if that is real or not, but certainly interesting you were told that about your MVC Only Holding points.

The underlying units would have been transferred to the cash side to generate the $$$ to pay for the exchange, maybe they had some that weren't rented and were able to transfer them back. I know the normal policy would have been forfeiture under 60 days. If the member canceled and not Collette, this would have been the expected outcome. Were Collette to cancel it should be full use of the points back but not covering airfare purchased independently. Thus in the situation where they would have been forfeited but were given added flexibility, restricting them to shorter notice and MVC seems quite reasonable.

 

[dive-in]

Sorry to dig up an old post. I think what I'm encountering is the same thing with the "Elected Points in 120 Day Holding Account" for my VC points. Had to cancel a week in HHI and a honeymoon gift for a friend in 2020 so those points all went into this account. I can understand the 120 day reservation restriction on MVC properties. I don't have a problem with that. We're talking about MVC room/condo inventory and need to give first priority to owners. What I don't understand is why you can't book a flight or a cruise for 2022 using the points in your holding account. It's not the MVC inventory now. It's the cruise line or airline that I'm trying to use my points on. What am I missing here? I feel like I'm getting on my MVC because I'm not going to be able to use my points.

 

[rthib]

If you cancel within a short time frame, your points go into holding points. They have reduced value because a reservation with a short time frame has reduced value. For Covid Marriott gave extra days 120 vs 60. So you are getting some value back Marriott just not complete. But using points for anything other the MVCI cost Marriott actual money and since your original reservation was a short cancel the assumption is that they were not able to recover much offsetting revenue.

 

[DanCali]

You are right about the Stock [VAC] which is up over 250% over the last year.
VAC hit $188 last week, well over the Pre-Covid Peak of $130.
Even the Hotels [MAR] which is up over 100% is not close to the TS [VAC].

Yes, being able to buy points using ROFR for $2 or less and resell them for $10 or more is a great business model. Similarly, being able to buy weeks for $5000 and resell them for $35,000 after those weeks are put in a trust is also very profitable. Very few businesses can do that... And enticing informed buyers who know about the resale market to also buy at those higher prices by offering to change a binary flag on resale weeks in their account from "unenrolled" to "enrolled" is the cherry on top. The biggest uncertainty is how many people show up in the sales office and the percentage of them who buy, because the sales effort is a very large expense for VAC.

As a company they have lots of expense items on the financials that reduce their overall profitability. But the one that stands out the most is (for 2019):

Sale of vacation ownership products: 1.39B
Cost of vacation ownership products: 0.356B

Those are some extremely nice margins just on that part. But they do also have 0.762B in "sales and marketing costs" on top of that, so maybe we should all stop being so greedy with those $150 gift cards we expect when we go to attend a sales pitch!

 

[frank808]

If they don't make enticing offers, no marks will come to buy.

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