Marriott/Westin Owner Update Incentive & Decisions--HELP!!

[mig1]

I'm not sure if this is possible.....but I'm an owner on the Westin/Vistana side who just took an owner update meeting to learn about the SVN integration into MVC. Of course I was presented with the "opportunity" to buy 1000 club points with an extra 2000 bonus points to get my ownership to the Platinum level. Because this started on the Westin side, I created a thread in the Westin section but since this really has as much or more to do with the Marriott side as this is the program I'd be going into, I'd love to get some input from Marriott owners to see if I have the right read on this and my available options.

The thread can be found here: https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/owner-update-wdw-help.343556/#post-2836566

The price I'm being quoted is 15,000 for 1,000 points and 2,000 bonus. If I sign up for an encore package they will lock in the price per point but they will NOT lock in the ability to only buy 1000 points and there will be NO incentives (or so they say).

All you Marriott folks....if you could read the thread at the link above and let me know your thoughts I'm sure you'd be helping not just me, but many others faced with the same decision.

 

[Al Savage]

Funny, this topic (the same offer) was discussed this morning here.

The consensus is that buying 1000 points from Marriott @ $15k is not buying anything that buying the same resale points @ $7k would (~$4/pt purchase + $3/pt "junk fees" to Marriott to make them usable in the MCV system). The resale market points, after paying Marriott their cut, work just like the retail points, at less than half the cost. You don't get the 2000 "bonus point", but then again those have a one-time value of around $1,350, so buying resale points still makes for a better financial case.

 

[JIMinNC]

Based on your post and several other similar ones, there appears to be a strategy at many sales offices right now, particularly those at the Westin/Sheraton properties, to try to sell small 1,000 point packages under the claim that you need to own Trust points to access Trust invemoty. That is a sales pitch MVC sales has used for years. While there is a small thread of truth underlying that claim (the rules DO allow them to segregate Trust inventory), in practice they almost never do this, and you would be wasting $15,000 to buy 1,000 points. If your Westin/Sheraton ownership is eligible for Abound membership (I think you said in the other thread that it was), then you should have access to the same inventory you would if you bought the points.

Multiple people have said this same thing over there on Vistana Board, and I think many people will tell you the same thing here. Walk away and let the dust settle on the merger. They will tell you anything to get you to sign on the dotted line.

 

[mig1]

Based on your post and several other similar ones, there appears to be a strategy at many sales offices right now, particularly those at the Westin/Sheraton properties, to try to sell small 1,000 point packages under the claim that you need to own Trust points to access Trust invemoty. That is a sales pitch MVC sales has used for years. While there is a small thread of truth underlying that claim (the rules DO allow them to segregate Trust inventory), in practice they almost never do this, and you would be wasting $15,000 to buy 1,000 points. If your Westin/Sheraton ownership is eligible for Abound membership (I think you said in the other thread that it was), then you should have access to the same inventory you would if you bought the points.

Multiple people have said this same thing over there on Vistana Board, and I think many people will tell you the same thing here. Walk away and let the dust settle on the merger. They will tell you anything to get you to sign on the dotted line.

They also told me that they are going to "strip" the points bought on the resale market so that you wouldn't be able to use them to buy a cruise for example...not sure that's an issue. They are telling me that Marriott "never" sells 1000 points and that they want to raise the minimum buy in to 2000 and if I wait then the next time I have an update the minimum will be over 20K as opposed to 15. Unlike yesterday, today was much much more of a hard "sell" trying to get me to move on this. They "claim" that it's a great value that will be more expensive next year and possibly even next month. In looking over the documents I came across this:

In the event the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility is raised above the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Program Member’s Interests at any given time, the Program Member will be entitled to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members, as applicable, until the end of the calendar year following that in which the Program Member no longer meets the respective Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility requirements.

Does this mean that they could simply decide to raise the level of Platinum above where I would have bought in and that if they decided to make Platinum say 10,000 Vacation Points instead of the current 7,000 that the 15K I spent to get to that threshold would be rendered useless?

 

[JIMinNC]

They also told me that they are going to "strip" the points bought on the resale market so that you wouldn't be able to use them to buy a cruise for example...not sure that's an issue. They are telling me that Marriott "never" sells 1000 points and that they want to raise the minimum buy in to 2000 and if I wait then the next time I have an update the minimum will be over 20K as opposed to 15. Unlike yesterday, today was much much more of a hard "sell" trying to get me to move on this. They "claim" that it's a great value that will be more expensive next year and possibly even next month. In looking over the documents I came across this:

In the event the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility is raised above the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Program Member’s Interests at any given time, the Program Member will be entitled to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members, as applicable, until the end of the calendar year following that in which the Program Member no longer meets the respective Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility requirements.

Does this mean that they could simply decide to raise the level of Platinum above where I would have bought in and that if they decided to make Platinum say 10,000 Vacation Points instead of the current 7,000 that the 15K I spent to get to that threshold would be rendered useless?

You are mixing up Platinum, which is a BonVoy level, with Executive level in MVC. Executive gives you Platinum BonVoy at hotels, but the relevant level determined by timeshare points owned is Executive.

And yes, the program terms and conditions do give them the right to raise the levels and bump you down, but in the past, they have always grandfathered people at the higher level. But you have to meet the new level to jump up a level.

They also have the right to strip resale points of the “Special Benefits” like cruises, but they have had that right since 2010 and haven’t exercised it. Will they change it going forward? Who knows? But the important thing is Sales has been threatening people with that for years and it hasn’t happened yet.

 

[CPNY]

Based on your post and several other similar ones, there appears to be a strategy at many sales offices right now, particularly those at the Westin/Sheraton properties, to try to sell small 1,000 point packages under the claim that you need to own Trust points to access Trust invemoty. That is a sales pitch MVC sales has used for years. While there is a small thread of truth underlying that claim (the rules DO allow them to segregate Trust inventory), in practice they almost never do this, and you would be wasting $15,000 to buy 1,000 points. If your Westin/Sheraton ownership is eligible for Abound membership (I think you said in the other thread that it was), then you should have access to the same inventory you would if you bought the points.

Multiple people have said this same thing over there on Vistana Board, and I think many people will tell you the same thing here. Walk away and let the dust settle on the merger. They will tell you anything to get you to sign on the dotted line.

I was at a Sheraton update today and they were not selling DC or the new Club Points. They were still selling the Sheraton flex product which converted to club points at a certain value based on how many flex options you bought.

I asked if in the future when abound truly launches, if I can come back and just buy Club Points and they didn’t have an answer. Obviously they wouldn’t answer if they knew, but I remember from many investor calls that their goal was to eventually sell the same product at every branded resort. I assume with the new trust set up they will be able to do that? As of now they are still selling flex at Sheraton/Westin and offering retro deals at legacy Vistana Resorts.

 

[dioxide45]

I was at a Sheraton update today and they were not selling DC or the new Club Points. They were still selling the Sheraton flex product which converted to club points at a certain value based on how many flex options you bought.

I asked if in the future when abound truly launches, if I can come back and just buy Club Points and they didn’t have an answer. Obviously they wouldn’t answer if they knew, but I remember from many investor calls that their goal was to eventually sell the same product at every branded resort. I assume with the new trust set up they will be able to do that? As of now they are still selling flex at Sheraton/Westin and offering retro deals at legacy Vistana Resorts.

Someone previously reported that they are only selling Flex in Orlando and Myrtle Beach. I suspect they are just running off inventory. They have started to convey Sheraton weeks to the Abound Trust. That would mean no more are likely going into Sheraton Flex. When Sheraton Flex runs dry, they may have to pivot. The only question is, what do they do with reacquired (ROFR, deedbacks and foreclosures) Flex contracts.

 

[CPNY]

Someone previously reported that they are only selling Flex in Orlando and Myrtle Beach. I suspect they are just running off inventory. They have started to convey Sheraton weeks to the Abound Trust. That would mean no more are likely going into Sheraton Flex. When Sheraton Flex runs dry, they may have to pivot. The only question is, what do they do with reacquired (ROFR, deedbacks and foreclosures) Flex contracts.
[/QUOT
Interesting, I didn’t realize they were only selling flex in Orlando and SBP. They are now selling DC Points at every other sales locations? I assume that Harborside is only selling reacquired/foreclosed Harborside weeks?

Can’t they just convey those reacquired flex contracts to the new Abound trust? I would imagine they would do the same for ROFR Maui weeks.

 

[dioxide45]

Can’t they just convey those reacquired flex contracts to the new Abound trust? I would imagine they would do the same for ROFR Maui weeks.

Not sure, we haven't seen them do that yet. The Abound trust is the existing MVC DC Trust that already holds tens of thousands of deeded weeks. They may have a method to convey Flex contracts, but that might not be easy. They didn't do it when they conveyed a bunch of Vistana weeks in August. It has been hypothesized that when they require inventory from Flex that they could take out an equivalent number of weeks from the Flex trusts and then convey those weeks to the MVC DC trust. Though again, not sure how easy that is. They certainly can convey individual weeks from any resort as they have already done this.

 

[JIMinNC]

Back to the OP…I’ve read your posts on this forum and on the Vistana forum. Pretty much everyone is telling you the same thing - the Sales team is feeding you partial truths, spin, and maybe a few things that even border on outright lies. Buying 1000 points is not going to suddenly change the inventory of reservations you can book between Marriott, Westin, and Sheraton. It’s sales spin to separate you from your money and earn the Sales team a commission. Abound is not leftovers as you say in one post that they said. As a Westin owner, if you elect your Westin week one year for Abound points, you will have access to any available Marriott inventory. If you want to go to your home resort or another Westin or Sheraton in another year, you just would choose that year not to elect into Abound. Buying 1000 more points won’t change that.

Buying the 1000 points will, however, elevate you to Executive level, which will also get you Platinum status when you stay at a Marriott hotel. Getting to Executive is probably the biggest benefit of spending the $15k, since it opens up the ability to book stays of less than 7 nights 12 or 13 months in advance. But, buying resale Points for about half the price can give you the same thing, with the caveat that Marriott COULD in the future start enforcing the blockage on resale points booking cruises, tours, etc. Is that benefit worth the cost to you?

You seem conflicted and somewhat confused, so that is why we are all saying, “Step back. Reassess. Wait until you are sure before you buy.”

 

[Venter]

I would say that you got excellent advice from JIMinNC. To add to what he said. The most valuable thing about being able to book those 1+ nights at 13 months is that you can add them to your week reservation if you fly to your destination and that way get flights that may be cheaper because you don't arrive and leave during the weekend. You also get discounted reservations with points if you reserve within 30 days for those last minute spur of the moment getaways. Lastly, it can be valuable to get 25% off per night at Vacation Club properties if you book through Marriott. Sometimes the weekend nights may be cheaper than booking points this way I use it to reserve the nights I could not get with points to build my reservation up and I can then still cancel if I find the night later while searching with points.

I personally do not think Platinum is a such a benefit as properties do not honor the perks such as free breakfast and room upgrades anymore, and a lot of the time the lounges are still closed. If you do receive the perks the benefit is totally worth it amd can save money when getting breakfast or lounge access.

 

[mig1]

First off...thanks to all who are responding. Even though we have had this VOI for the better part of 2 decades, our use is somewhat narrow in scope as compared to others. It seems as though some of the Tug'ers are much more well versed in their ability to finesse the various systems.

I still get a bit twisted around on some of the most basic ownership aspects so the fact that it's happening here isn't a surprise (to me at least).

I do understand that an additional 1000 club points isn't going to get me to the promised land. But as you mention above, the ability to less than 7 night stays 13 months in advance seems like it might have some value. Is the Marriott system like Westin in that at the 8 month mark you can book less than 7 night stays or must you have this Executive level to unlock that privilege?

I can tell you that as a DVC owner, they did restrict resale points with respect to booking cruises so I know that hammer has been used at least over there.

From a historical perspective, what has been the pace of the club point price increases? Not that 15 per point is a great price, but the double incentive seems like it might have some good one-time value. What is holding me back is two-fold. ONE is that with Abound, I'm not sure we'll step that far outside the VSN world (but it would be nice to sample) and TWO it's about 35% more in price than I think it's worth.

Today the "closer" showed me a page from his sales book that showed the price points Marriott is asking for 7,000 club points (which is what my WKORV is worth combined with the 1000 developer purchase). It was over 80K. Not that it matters but it was interesting from a reference point.

How has Marriott been with requalifying resale purchases? My head tells me that with an economy that's a bit shaky, in a few months when some get their annual MF statements some are going to want to get out from underneath this responsibility and will sell. In looking at the resales on eBay why are the resort transfer fees so high on resales? In some cases the transfer fees are more expensive than the resales themselves!

 

[Venter]

With owner and select level you can book 1+ night from 10 months.
If you have the cash then rather buy resale because, currently once you paid the 3$/point fee to make the resale points whole, they are no different than what you bought from Marriott.
We bought with Marriott because with incentives it was not that far of. Sometimes if you had a hotel stay that you paid for clos to the presentation date they may also take that of the price. Ask if you can wait to pay MF till 2024. You won't get the points for 2023 but you don't need them because you will have bonus points that doesn't expire for two years.

Somewhere there is a thread with historical price rises since inception.

 

[JIMinNC]

I do understand that an additional 1000 club points isn't going to get me to the promised land. But as you mention above, the ability to less than 7 night stays 13 months in advance seems like it might have some value. Is the Marriott system like Westin in that at the 8 month mark you can book less than 7 night stays or must you have this Executive level to unlock that privilege?

@Venter posted the details, but the Marriott booking time frames are different than in Vistana and depend on your ownership level. Owner and Select level can only book shorter stays of less than 7 nights at 10 months out, but by 10 months, the high-demand stuff in MVC is generally gone except for a night or two scattered here or there. You might get lucky and find something that works for you, but it's a crapshoot. Executive level and above can book the short stays of one night or more at all times from 13 months on. Again, that's by far the biggest benefit of moving up to Executive.

From a historical perspective, what has been the pace of the club point price increases? Not that 15 per point is a great price, but the double incentive seems like it might have some good one-time value.

Post #103 in this thread (https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/2015-history-of-marriott-dc-point-price-increases.229958/page-5) shows price increases from 6/2010 through 1/2021, plus the posts after that one chronicle some of the more recent increases, the latest of which is $16.08. Note this is the "list" price and they almost always offer a discount off of list - sort of a permanent sale that they tell you is "limited time", but it's generally not.

They've been doing the "limited time double incentive" bonus points since at least November 2020, since that's what we got when we bought some points in order to enroll our two resale Hawaii weeks back then. We got the double bonus points then, and I think every offer I've seen posted on TUG in the last 2-3 years has included that same bonus. They can obviously discontinue it and change approaches at any time, but they will ALWAYS tell you, "It's going away if you don't buy TODAY."

What is holding me back is two-fold. ONE is that with Abound, I'm not sure we'll step that far outside the VSN world (but it would be nice to sample) and TWO it's about 35% more in price than I think it's worth.

Remember, you DON'T have to buy these 1000 points to get exchange abilities in Abound. Your existing VSN Hawaii week is automatically enrolled in Abound and, once the system goes live in presumably October, in any year you elect for Abound points, you will be able to book any Marriott, Westin, or Sheraton availability in Abound (but you only really need it for Marriott since you are already in VSN).

How has Marriott been with requalifying resale purchases? My head tells me that with an economy that's a bit shaky, in a few months when some get their annual MF statements some are going to want to get out from underneath this responsibility and will sell. In looking at the resales on eBay why are the resort transfer fees so high on resales? In some cases the transfer fees are more expensive than the resales themselves!

If you go the resale route, DO NOT buy a resale Marriott week. That comes unenrolled and to requalify that week will likely require buying at least 2500 or 3000 points. The far better resale approach for you, just to get to Executive, is to buy 1,000 resale Destination Points. You will see eBay listings at as little as $1.00 per point, but those will almost certainly not pass ROFR and Marriott will buy them instead. Expect to pay $3.50 to $4.00 per resale point to get past ROFR and then you have to pay a $3/point activation fee, closing costs, and a few other miscellaneous fees. Your total cost including all fees will be in the $7/point range or thereabouts.

 

[Pamplemousse]

Just to add another data point- I have had excellent luck adding a night or 2 onto a reservation by making a waitlist request inside of 10 months. I am careful to request the same size and view and have never had to change units for the additional nights. I usually book the night cash with the owner discount code to give me back up in case the waitlist doesn’t come though so I can finalize travel plans.

 

[mig1]

Just to add another data point- I have had excellent luck adding a night or 2 onto a reservation by making a waitlist request inside of 10 months. I am careful to request the same size and view and have never had to change units for the additional nights. I usually book the night cash with the owner discount code to give me back up in case the waitlist doesn’t come though so I can finalize travel plans.

I'm assuming your suggestion is to buy destination club points on the resale market that replenish every year; in other words take over someone else's obligation as opposed to a one time purchase of 1000 points to get to the Exec/Plat level. Looking over eBay the listings have closing costs "education" and "resort transfer fees" that seem to drive the all in price above 7.00 a point.

Do you not have to 'requalify' points on the resale market the way you would likely have to with a deeded property? I was always under the impression that having a deeded property was better than just having points. I.E. having an actual VOI as opposed to FLEX points inside of VSN.

If I were to buy 1000 resale points wouldn't I still have to convey my property into the trust to be able to add the total amount of points to get to Exec/Plat? Or once Abound goes live, does MVC just automatically do this and then add any resale points to the account to cross the Exec/Plat threshold? Are you able to merge different resale purchases into ONE account

 

[sponger76]

I'm assuming your suggestion is to buy destination club points on the resale market that replenish every year; in other words take over someone else's obligation as opposed to a one time purchase of 1000 points to get to the Exec/Plat level. Looking over eBay the listings have closing costs "education" and "resort transfer fees" that seem to drive the all in price above 7.00 a point.

Do you not have to 'requalify' points on the resale market the way you would likely have to with a deeded property? I was always under the impression that having a deeded property was better than just having points. I.E. having an actual VOI as opposed to FLEX points inside of VSN.

If I were to buy 1000 resale points wouldn't I still have to convey my property into the trust to be able to add the total amount of points to get to Exec/Plat? Or once Abound goes live, does MVC just automatically do this and then add any resale points to the account to cross the Exec/Plat threshold? Are you able to merge different resale purchases into ONE account

There a couple of different things that come into play. The VOI you own doesn't get conveyed into the trust. Basically, if it's "enrolled" in Abound, you have the option the year prior to your use year to "convert" it to Abound points. If you do, your week becomes available for others to reserve via Abound. If you don't, you use it as you currently do. Either way, as long as it is enrolled, the points that you would get for converting would still be credited toward your overall owner level. If you buy points, either retail or resale (with the $3/point initiation fee paid to MVC), those get added to the owner level points for your deeded week for status purposes.

 

[JIMinNC]

I'm assuming your suggestion is to buy destination club points on the resale market that replenish every year; in other words take over someone else's obligation as opposed to a one time purchase of 1000 points to get to the Exec/Plat level. Looking over eBay the listings have closing costs "education" and "resort transfer fees" that seem to drive the all in price above 7.00 a point.

Do you not have to 'requalify' points on the resale market the way you would likely have to with a deeded property? I was always under the impression that having a deeded property was better than just having points. I.E. having an actual VOI as opposed to FLEX points inside of VSN.

If I were to buy 1000 resale points wouldn't I still have to convey my property into the trust to be able to add the total amount of points to get to Exec/Plat? Or once Abound goes live, does MVC just automatically do this and then add any resale points to the account to cross the Exec/Plat threshold? Are you able to merge different resale purchases into ONE account

As I said above, the smaller fees like education fee, transfer fees, ROFR fees, etc all add a little to the price, but all-in you are still probably under $8.00 per point most likely. Those smaller flat fees do have a more significant per point impact on a small number of points like 1000. Paying the $3 per point fee to Marriott is, in effect, their “requalification” fee for the resale points.

Deeded properties are generally better than pure trust points, but buying a resale week and then paying Marriott for 2500 to 3000 points to enroll/requalify the week is going to cost you $35,000 to $40,000. If all you want is to get to Executive level, the cheapest way is buying resale points and paying the associated fees.

Don’t confuse VSN rules with Abound rules. They are very different.

Finally, you NEVER convey your week into the Trust. Your week is simply assigned a points value in Abound - I think you said it was 6200 or something like that - and that value plus any Trust points you own are added together by Marriott to determine your owner level. So, you will own a 6200-point week plus 1000 Trust points, equaling 7200, which is Executive Level. Then, whenever you want to book something in Abound instead of using your home week or using VSN as you always have, you will do what Marriott calls “electing” your week during the year prior to the use year. Marriott will then add the 6200 “elected” points from your week to your 1000 available Trust points, giving you 7200 points with which to book reservations. They will show up in your online account separately as 1000 Trust points and 6200 elected points, but you can combine both buckets to book reservations. But even if you don’t “elect” your week in any given year, that 6200 points still counts towards your owner level. If you don’t elect your week then you will only have the 1000 Trust point with which to book Abound reservations. That small amount won’t get you much, but might get you a few nights here or there. To book a full week you will almost always have to elect your week.

We don’t yet know how someone who owns both a VSN week and Abound Trust Points will see their accounts displayed because Marriott won’t be rolling out their new web site/technology platforms that bring Abound together until later in October.

I’ll add that everything I said above about owner level and making reservations will work exactly the same regardless of whether you spend $15k to buy 1000 points from Marriott or half that to buy 1000 resale points. If you pay the fees those resale points should work the exact same way.

 

[JIMinNC]

Just to cover my bases in the last post, I’ll repeat one caveat - Marriott DOES have the right under the legal documents to strip resale points of the privilege of booking cruises, tours, owner events, etc. To date they have not done that, but they could. If they ever did, your 6200 points from your week could still be used for the cruises, tours, events, etc. but your 1000 resale Trust points could not be used for those. Those types of things are generally poor uses of points, but it IS something they could take away, but just for the 1000 Trust points if you buy them resale. So, is preserving that right beyond doubt worth $7,000 or $8,000 to you?

 

[Al Savage]

I'm assuming your suggestion is to buy destination club points on the resale market that replenish every year; in other words take over someone else's obligation as opposed to a one time purchase of 1000 points to get to the Exec/Plat level.

I was hoping that someone would address this, as I keep reading about "buying points" resale when sometimes I think they meant "rent points".

For example, for this discussion and for @mig1, 1000 pts "ownership" will need to be purchased (@~$7/pt), to gain a higher level.

OTOH, I need to "rent" points from someone else in order to book a few dates in December (@~$0.67/pt). This will do nothing for my level w/Marriott.

Often, when these discussions come up, the assumption is made that, by context, the difference between purchasing and renting points is to be assumed, and I know that confused me for a long time.

 

[Pamplemousse]

I'm assuming your suggestion is to buy destination club points on the resale market that replenish every year; in other words take over someone else's obligation as opposed to a one time purchase of 1000 points to get to the Exec/Plat level. Looking over eBay the listings have closing costs "education" and "resort transfer fees" that seem to drive the all in price above 7.00 a point.

Do you not have to 'requalify' points on the resale market the way you would likely have to with a deeded property? I was always under the impression that having a deeded property was better than just having points. I.E. having an actual VOI as opposed to FLEX points inside of VSN.

If I were to buy 1000 resale points wouldn't I still have to convey my property into the trust to be able to add the total amount of points to get to Exec/Plat? Or once Abound goes live, does MVC just automatically do this and then add any resale points to the account to cross the Exec/Plat threshold? Are you able to merge different resale purchases into ONE account

My comments (post #15) were related to the thought of purchasing more points to get you to executive level so you can book less than 7 nights before 10 months.
And the comment that it was handy to be able to book an extra night or 2 with points to perhaps make travel easier or more flexible when staying an ownership or exchange week.
What I was saying is I am just at owner level and I have not had trouble adding the extra nights at less than 10 months. I place a waitlist request if the nights aren’t available and that has worked out for me.
I personally don’t think it’s necessary to spend several thousand dollars to get the wider booking window.

Others will address this but if you buy destination club points (from MVC or resale) you will have a DC account (and club dues) and you can then also rent points for a stay (you can own a minimum number of points).
But your week can’t be in the the DC account and it’s potential point value won’t count towards your membership level unless you enroll the week- by whatever method is available to your specific week.

 

[JIMinNC]

I was hoping that someone would address this, as I keep reading about "buying points" resale when sometimes I think they meant "rent points".

For example, for this discussion and for @mig1, 1000 pts "ownership" will need to be purchased (@~$7/pt), to gain a higher level.

OTOH, I need to "rent" points from someone else in order to book a few dates in December (@~$0.67/pt). This will do nothing for my level w/Marriott.

Often, when these discussions come up, the assumption is made that, by context, the difference between purchasing and renting points is to be assumed, and I know that confused me for a long time.

Yes, you are correct. The OP's first sentence in post #16 does indicate some confusion over "owning" points permanently versus one-time use points. The one-time use points can either be the PlusPoints that Marriott gives out as purchase incentives, or can also be your example of "renting" points for one-time use direct from another owner on a site like Vacation Point Exchange. In both cases, one-time use points - neither Marriott's bonus points or "rented" points count toward owner level. Only "owned" points count toward owner level.

 

[mig1]

If everything seems to be moving to "points" as opposed to owning at a property, does the adage, "buy where you want to go" still apply? If I'm going to go resale, does it matter where I buy or should I just look for the best deal I can get--the most points for the least amount of money and lowest MF I can find?

 

[JIMinNC]

If everything seems to be moving to "points" as opposed to owning at a property, does the adage, "buy where you want to go" still apply? If I'm going to go resale, does it matter where I buy or should I just look for the best deal I can get--the most points for the least amount of money and lowest MF I can find?

Pure points are not usually associated with a specific property, so in that sense, "buy where you want to go" doesn't apply. Points are best used for going to multiple places rather than one place repeatedly. If there is somewhere you want to go, or would be happy going, every year then buy a resale week there. Just be aware that if you buy a resale week, it will be ineligible for participation in Abound without buying $35k to $40K of Trust points to enroll/requalify it. If you buy a resale VSN Mandatory week, it should be able to still participate in VSN with StarOptions to travel within the VSN system, but no Abound participation for resale Mandatory VSN weeks bought after 8/9/2022.

 

[Pamplemousse]

Still the best bang for the buck is to own a 2 Br lock off, split it and exchange for 2 weeks on II.
Adding II fees (which are not insignificant especially if week is not enrolled) plus your maintenance fee the cost per night will be lower.
You do have the hassle/uncertainty of exchanging and view is not guaranteed.
It just depends on what’s most important to you- low cost, getting the location/view you want when you want it.
Exchanging on II is still a viable option and I do it when I’m not hung up on a certain view or targeting a high season at a hard to get location, I use DC points when I want what I want and I’m willing to pay for it or when I want to travel less than a week.

You’ll find several threads on these boards recommending traders.