Marriott points owner with a few questions about HGVC point purchasing and ownership.

[sdp1969]

Hello,

I am looking at buying either Marriott or HGVC points from the secondary market. I am pretty familiar with Marriotts point system but not as much with the Hilton system so I wanted to post a few questions here regarding HGVC points.

1.With Marriott, if I only have 1000 points and want to go to a resort that costs 3000 points then I can easily go to https://vacationpointexchange.com/ and rent Marriott points from other owners who have excess points to make up the difference. Because of this, I only need to buy enough points to get into the Marriott system and have the ability to buy just what I need each year. Does the HGVC allow the rental of points between owners this way? If not is there any other way of getting points only as you need them once I am in the system? I ask as I am considering a HGVC purchase but also need to figure out how many I should buy. Obviously I would prefer to buy the minimum and just rent from other HGVC owners as I need them like I do with Marriott.

2. Also, exchanging Marriott points towards non resort items (ie flights and cruises) is not cost efficient and you may end of paying more than if you bought it outright. Does the same hold true with HGVC points?

3. When it comes to HGVC points, are they all equal? So are 12,000 HGCV points equal to another 12,000 HGVC points? I ask as it seems that the cost and maintenance fees are very inconsistent at times and I thought that could be due to some kind of a different ranking/value of points in the same way weeks are designated as bronze, gold and platinum.

4. Marriott charges 3$ per point above the sellers price to transfer point ownership and give full rights to them. So a 1000 point purchase for $2000 turns out to be $5000 total cost with Marriott. I expect some fees of course but does HGVC have any exorbitant costs like this when buying or selling points?

5. For anyone who own both Marriott and HGVC point systems...do you have any specific positive or negative points that would set one above the other. Seems like HGVC has a much bigger presence in Europe and Japan but Marriott has more results. I have also read that Hilton is more friendly to buyers from the secondary market.

6.Are there any honest and helpful Hilton brokers you can suggest that could help me make the best decision from me and not their profit margins?

Thank you all very much for your help!

Steven

 

[dayooper]

Hello,

I am looking at buying either Marriott or HGVC points from the secondary market. I am pretty familiar with Marriotts point system but not as much with the Hilton system so I wanted to post a few questions here regarding HGVC points.

1.With Marriott, if I only have 1000 points and want to go to a resort that costs 3000 points then I can easily go to https://vacationpointexchange.com/ and rent Marriott points from other owners who have excess points to make up the difference. Because of this, I only need to buy enough points to get into the Marriott system and have the ability to buy just what I need each year. Does the HGVC allow the rental of points between owners this way? If not is there any other way of getting points only as you need them once I am in the system? I ask as I am considering a HGVC purchase but also need to figure out how many I should buy. Obviously I would prefer to buy the minimum and just rent from other HGVC owners as I need them like I do with Marriott.

2. Also, exchanging Marriott points towards non resort items (ie flights and cruises) is not cost efficient and you may end of paying more than if you bought it outright. Does the same hold true with HGVC points?

3. When it comes to HGVC points, are they all equal? So are 12,000 HGCV points equal to another 12,000 HGVC points? I ask as it seems that the cost and maintenance fees are very inconsistent at times and I thought that could be due to some kind of a different ranking/value of points in the same way weeks are designated as bronze, gold and platinum.

4. Marriott charges 3$ per point above the sellers price to transfer point ownership and give full rights to them. So a 1000 point purchase for $2000 turns out to be $5000 total cost with Marriott. I expect some fees of course but does HGVC have any exorbitant costs like this when buying or selling points?

5. For anyone who own both Marriott and HGVC point systems...do you have any specific positive or negative points that would set one above the other. Seems like HGVC has a much bigger presence in Europe and Japan but Marriott has more results. I have also read that Hilton is more friendly to buyers from the secondary market.

6.Are there any honest and helpful Hilton brokers you can suggest that could help me make the best decision from me and not their profit margins?

Thank you all very much for your help!

Steven

1. No, there is no way to rent points within the rules.

2. Yes, using points toward no resort items is a poor use of said points.

3. Points are points. 10000 platinum points can get you the same reservations as 10000 gold or silver points. The only difference is the amount you purchase them for and, most importantly, how much the MF’s cost. There are certain resorts that have better MF ratios (The Boulevard, Paradise and certain deeds at Elara and Flamingo have decent MF ratios. I have 2 platinum 2 bedroom weeks at Boulevard and Flamingo and I paid under $2700 in club dues and MF’s.

4. Roughly $1300 in Hilton fees and then deed prep. LT Transfers is roughly $400. This is just an estimate and the cost may be different, but it’s close. If you buy from Craigendarroch Lodges, the fees are much lower and the MF’s are pretty good as well.

5. I only own HGVC.

6. Judi Kozlowski has a good rep. I bought my 2 from Redweek (their service was pretty rough) and Facebook HGVC resale group.

HGVC is a great system to own in if you like the resort locations. It’s relatively inexpensive to buy resale and they treat all of their owners very well. The MF’s are still relatively low. Good Luck!

 

[ljmiii]

What @dayooper wrote. We own both HGVC and MVC and in general HGVC points (and weeks) are much easier to use and have lower MFs. The easier to use part of HGVC is partly because every week 'comes with' points even after resale and partly because HGVC doesn't allow for points to be rented to other owners nor for points reservations (called Club Reservations) to be rented out. My usual HGVC spiel follows...feel free to ask follow up questions.

HGVC is in general (and IMHO) the best of the major timeshare systems as long as you understand its limitations and are able to plan 9 to 12 months in advance. In particular, HGVC truly excels if you want to do one of the three following things...

1) Stay at one of HGVC's major destinations - O'ahu, the Big Island, Carlsbad (CA), Las Vegas, Myrtle Beach (SC), Orlando, and maybe NYC. There is almost always plenty of availability at 276 days (~9 months) and you can just buy the least expensive deed anywhere in the system (taking into account both initial price and MFs).

2) Stay at any HGVC resort for a week at a time (usually Saturday to Saturday) in a particular unit size and season at least every other year. Because most people don't book Home Week reservations there is almost always availability at 12 months (except perhaps for the very highest of demand weeks - e.g. President's Week at a Ski Resort). For this you buy a deed for the unit, season, and resort at which you want to stay.

3) Stay in NYC or DC. Because the "by Hilton Club" (aka bHC) resorts in these locations have "Home Resort Priority" windows in addition to the "Home Week Priority" window there is a long period of time (typically 90 to 276 days in advance) during which resort owners and no one else can book short stays. In addition, only owners can make "Open Season" reservations (cash stays) and there is usually an owners lounge. You would need to buy at the resort though not necessarily the unit and season at which you want to stay.

 

[jp10558]

If you do contact Judi - I didn't love her - I think she inflated closing a lot, and certainly didn't get me the best deal. However, the deal did go through, and I got what she said I would. I just wasn't happy that the listings on TUG were out of date, and she steered me to an Orlando vs Las Vegas property even when I asked about Vegas. I had to basically have her tell me what I could "put in an offer on" but I had no insight as to what was available.

I have actually much preferred all my other timeshare acquisitions (ebay, free forum here) where I knew with no sort of "on the phone pressure" what I was getting into, and could think easily about it.

Ok, my annoyance with the broker over - HGVC is easy to use like the others said BUT as I've found out now having stayed in a few (Ocean Enclave, McAlpin Ocean Plaza, Ocean Oak, Flamingo) - it's a "type" of place. What I mean is they're all basically towers with limited parking and parking fees - and valet is sometimes pretty necessary. This means arriving and departing is more like a hotel, with more hassle and luggage carts needed which may be in short supply. Plus most of the time in a timeshare you have a lot more stuff, and you may want to go out and get groceries and bring them back etc - stuff you don't usually deal with in a hotel. Also, the places I've stayed are mostly basic stuff at the resort (pool, hot tub) and don't have sauna or steam room, may not have ping pong or only one table, etc. They're more about the location you're in. Which is great if you really want to be right on the beach say, but unless you're there specifically to be on that beach, the extra cost and hassle may not be worth it to you vs a slightly inland competitor that's more available, cheaper, and has larger units or lots more free parking and easier access from car to unit say. If you're driving to places, driving 5 minutes to a public beach isn't necessarily a huge hardship depending on how you like to vacation.

And Las Vegas - while being connected to Flamingo or Planet Hollywood (Elara) is nice I guess - you still end up needing a car and driving if you go to other casinos so again, being a block away for a much cheaper stay - it depends on you, but I'm 50/50 whether it's really worth it. It's also in limited locations. I think RCI cash deal access "fixes that" but many people on TUG disagree.

For you as a Marriott owner - I don't know that HGVC fills anything Marriott doesn't in terms of location. Given you have to buy the points you want to use - IDK if that really works for you or not. I think in terms of points, HGVC can be less expensive - and you can use the points in lower seasons to stretch them if that works for you. So if you wanted Myrtle Beach or "fancy" Orlando for less money, you could buy a good Vegas or Craig deed and get the standard 2BR week for about $1,600 a year. This is figured as $1,100 MF, $399 club dues and ~$100 booking fee.

That said - I'm completely flummoxed by the Marriott system - points are said to be expensive ($3 per transfer fee, higher MFs), but then there's deeds without points that can have good MFs to week and unit size - there's points but also II trades, II costs less but not 0, IDK what booking with points costs etc. With Marriott you'd get the benefit of only paying one systems club dues so amortizing that probably makes sense. If you amortized in HGVC it would obviously be cheaper - but IDK how that compares to booking the 2BR in Marriott.

 

[dioxide45]

If you do contact Judi - I didn't love her - I think she inflated closing a lot, and certainly didn't get me the best deal. However, the deal did go through, and I got what she said I would. I just wasn't happy that the listings on TUG were out of date, and she steered me to an Orlando vs Las Vegas property even when I asked about Vegas. I had to basically have her tell me what I could "put in an offer on" but I had no insight as to what was available.

I have actually much preferred all my other timeshare acquisitions (ebay, free forum here) where I knew with no sort of "on the phone pressure" what I was getting into, and could think easily about it.

I think this is something that we see with brokers in general. They are sales people after all and they want to sell you what they have vs. what they don't have or won't see for several months. Their prices will almost always be more than you will find in a for sale by owner situation as they are earning a commission on the transaction.

 

[JIMinNC]

One key difference between Marriott and HGVC is the HGVC points are assigned to underlying weeks. Marriott on the other hand now sells only pure Trust points that are backed by beneficial interests in a land trust, not a specific unit/week. So, with resale Marriott points you can buy the Trust points themselves for whatever price you negotiate with the seller, but then you have to pay Marriott the $3/point surcharge to bring them fully into the Abound system. That's their rule.

With HGVC, you are actually buying a deeded week at one of their resorts that can be used as a week at your home resort (bookable at 12 months out) or converted to a defined value of HGVC points for use to make club reservations at other HGVC properties (bookable at 9 months out). You can't buy resale pure Trust points like Marriott's. With HGVC, the points value of your resale week transfers with the sale. With Marriott, resale weeks cannot generally participate in Abound points, and can only be used at your home resort or traded through II. (The exception is unless you take advantage of one of Marriott's amnesty promotions and buy $30-$40k worth of MVC Trust points direct from Marriott in order to re-qualify your resale-purchased week.)

HGVC does have transfer fees for resale purchases, but it's a flat fee per transaction, and is handled as part of closing costs. I don't recall what the current fee is, but it averages out way less than MVC.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

6.Are there any honest and helpful Hilton brokers you can suggest

Judy has been mentioned. I will recommend Diane Nadeau, who i transacted thru twice. I agree with both jp & dioxide. My experience:
agree with jp: INitially talked to Judy, who had basically what I wanted, but was very focused that I buy a specific deed. Then, when I looked at the inventory listing, on-line I guess it was, I saw the same thing at a lower price and also Platinum, not Gold. I mentioned it to her and she said she would get back to me. 48 hrs later, nothing. I called and left the msg "Hi Judy. Trying to figure out why I would pay $300 more for that gold week than I can pay for this platinum week." This was before there was even any negotiating an offer. It was simply what deed to offer to buy. Left the msg. Never heard back.

7, maybe 10 days later, Diane had already made my offer on the platinum deed and it was accepted. Very professional. Gets it done.

agree with dioxide: they are in it to make a living. I didn't worry about Diane making a nice buck for her time. I got what I wanted because she focused on what I wanted.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

seems that the cost and maintenance fees are very inconsistent at times

Not sure what you mean by the MFs being inconsistent. THey definitely are not equal across the board, but they seem to make sense within regions/states, don't they?
The strange kink in the system is that when HGVC adds a new property, they "price" it as more Pts/Wk. Since the weekly deed then HAS more pts than a wkly deed at a similar property that has been around for awhile, they can charge more for it. To me, the Maui Bay place is ridiculously over-priced for what it is vs not only HGVC props in HI, but vs a dozen other places on Maui that we could use as a comp. Then there are the newest towers in HHV, which were thus born & priced.
That may explain "inconsistent cost". MFs?
As for what resale HGVC deeds "cost" to buy, the market seems to price them well (economically-speaking) across the board, assuming you think of amortizing the upfront cost over 6 - 8 yrs, as I remember it. Of course, the market has trouble "pricing" deeds that are worth Less Than Zero. Thus you get various "seller pays" stuff.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

basically have her tell me what I could "put in an offer on" but I had no insight as to what was available

That is how it seemed to me. It wasn't hard to get insight by just searching around though. Left me wondering how she thought that approach would work in the age of computers, www.com, etc.

 

[ljmiii]

I will recommend Diane Nadeau, who i transacted thru twice....

I second the recommendation of Diane Nadeau. I used her services twice, once as a buyer and then once as a seller and was reasonably happy both times.

 

[jp10558]

That is how it seemed to me. It wasn't hard to get insight by just searching around though. Left me wondering how she thought that approach would work in the age of computers, www.com, etc.

Well, I was going off of TUG listings, which many seemed to be by her. Contact her, get told that listing is long sold, as it all the other ones I could pull up on TUG, but here's a random one "that's in your price range and point value". I probably should have posted more in the forum but I thought from what I'd read at the time, the response was look at TUG2. Or Scotland, but at the time I was kind of scared about a "non-deeded international purchase". Now I wish I had gone that way. FL added a huge amount to the MF bill with that reserve funding law which makes it really kind of expensive. Not the worst, but worse than it used to be.