Marriott PC Mountainside Resale - HELP

[m61376]

Bill-
One of the best things about this Board is the easy exchange of different opinions. Knowing that what is best for someone else may not be the best for you, hearing others' viewpoints makes it easier to make your own informed decision as to what is best for you and your family.

What Perry has said I am sure is true and, as you've said, he's mastered the art. Others may not have the time or the inclination to expend that much energy to learning the system enough to taking advantage of all the loopholes; I might not have taken that approach but I am happy to be learning about it, filing all of it for future reference.

I love that I can learn all the options out there and then digest for myself what I think will work best for us. You've asked, you've heard and you've weighed the pros and cons, and it seems to me you've made a decision as to what will work best for you. Feel confident that it is the right decision and, except for a few naysayers who are apt to condemn anyone who doesn't agree with them, most here will respect your decision.

Now negotiate the best deal you can so you can start enjoying!

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Others may not have the time or the inclination to expend that much energy to learning the system enough to taking advantage of all the loopholes;

Now negotiate the best deal you can so you can start enjoying!

That is the problem with loopholes...it is great for a few smart people...not the masses.

 

[PerryM]

Bulls, Bears, and Pigs...

That is the problem with loopholes...it is great for a few smart people...not the masses.

One person’s “loophole” is another person’s adherence to the rules of the game.

If the masses are happy with what they have, this is great news for those who wish to take advantage of their complacency. The more time and effort you place into learning the rules, and more importantly, how they are interpreted and enforced, the less money you need to have at risk, or the money you have at risk is leveraged more for your benefit.

As I posted in another thread:

Bulls, Bears, and Pigs.

I'm a Pig at heart when it comes to investing, however most of the time I am a Bull or a Bear.

There are two topics really being discussed here:

1) Due Diligence
2) Risk Tolerance

Due Diligence:
Weighing alternatives is a fundamental part of Due Diligence. As long as a person has gathered all the available information and run various scenarios the person has done Due Diligence. This thread is a great example of doing Due Diligence - lot's of options and opinions are offered. Certainly more than the salesrep brings up in the 90-minute timeshare sales presentation.

Risk Tolerance:
The less money you have invested the less you have at risk – I like the idea of putting up as little as possible and try for the maximum amount of benefit. Some folks have no fear in risking $100k on a single timeshare week – they have a high risk/reward ratio tolerance.

I have a very low risk/reward ratio tolerance – I try to lower the risk in the equation and increase the reward portion of the ratio. This takes time and experience to do.

But everyone has a different level of Due Diligence and Risk Tolerance in their investment outlook. No ONE combination is universal to all folks.

So be a Bull or a Bear on an investment, but be very cautious about being a Pig; pigs get gored all the time.

 

[hipslo]

One person’s “loophole” is another person’s adherence to the rules of the game.

If the masses are happy with what they have, this is great news for those who wish to take advantage of their complacency. The more time and effort you place into learning the rules, and more importantly, how they are interpreted and enforced, the less money you need to have at risk, or the money you have at risk is leveraged more for your benefit.

As I posted in another thread:

Bulls, Bears, and Pigs.

I'm a Pig at heart when it comes to investing, however most of the time I am a Bull or a Bear.

There are two topics really being discussed here:

1) Due Diligence
2) Risk Tolerance

Due Diligence:
Weighing alternatives is a fundamental part of Due Diligence. As long as a person has gathered all the available information and run various scenarios the person has done Due Diligence. This thread is a great example of doing Due Diligence - lot's of options and opinions are offered. Certainly more than the salesrep brings up in the 90-minute timeshare sales presentation.

Risk Tolerance:
The less money you have invested the less you have at risk – I like the idea of putting up as little as possible and try for the maximum amount of benefit. Some folks have no fear in risking $100k on a single timeshare week – they have a high risk/reward ratio tolerance.

I have a very low risk/reward ratio tolerance – I try to lower the risk in the equation and increase the reward portion of the ratio. This takes time and experience to do.

But everyone has a different level of Due Diligence and Risk Tolerance in their investment outlook. No ONE combination is universal to all folks.

So be a Bull or a Bear on an investment, but be very cautious about being a Pig; pigs get gored all the time.

Interesting, and (as always) quite insightful and thought provoking. Though I must say I am left scratching my head a bit over which approach being discussed in this thread (if any) would qualify for the "pig" designation.

 

[PerryM]

That salesrep offers a piggish decision...

Interesting, and (as always) quite insightful and thought provoking. Though I must say I am left scratching my head a bit over which approach being discussed in this thread (if any) would qualify for the "pig" designation.

To be Bullish or Bearish about a timeshare or Destination Club or Fractional requires a lot of research and decision making.

A Piggish decision, to me, would be one not based upon much research and decisions but one based upon emotions "I gotta have that week 52 at the Maui Westin for $140,000 - I'm rich and don't care". That decision can be easy for some folks and the salesreps really promote this kind of decision - Piggish, well at least for them. The decision, however, could be a bullish one for someone as long as the Due Diligence and their Risk/Reward is tolerable. We can't just look at the outcome, we need to see how much preparation went into the decision. Is 90-minutes really time enough to make these kinds of decisions? The salesreps think so.

 

[chrisfromOC]

I have two kids 8yo and 11yo and ski-in/out is the #1 priority for me!

We used to own a condo at Beaver Run in Breckenridge and be able to ski home for a quick lunch break.

I think Marriott MS and SW are GREAT properties and represent good value to a family that wants skiing every year.

PerryM has truly mastered the system....but that may only be good for a FEW sleect people...if everyone on TUG tried to trade into MS or SW with WM or any other II property, there would be MANY dissapointed people.

The #1 advice is "Buy where you want to Stay"

The #2 advice is "Get a Good Deal or buy resale"

Notice that it is MORE important (IMHO) to buy where you want to stay than it is to get a good deal.....simply because you get a $500 timeshare and have MF of $300 does not necessarily make it a good deal.

Snow skiing timeshares represent a RARE timeshare commodity that necessatates people BUYING a ski week to GUARANTEE them a place to stay.

If you want to stay in outer mongolia and drive 30 minutes to the slope, fight for a parking spot, and drag all your gear (and kids gear)...go ahead and get a bargain....but if you want ski-in/out you are looking at about $30k for a purchase and about $900 MF.

If you can't afford to pay $30k with a check....then you should RENT as this is the best option.

Very good points. I understand the values that can be had by exchangers, but I for one have young kids and we need to plan around school schedules, etc., and since we want to do 2 week vacations in Hawaii each year we ended up buying 2 separate weeks at very nice resorts. No problems with reservations, no need to hope that my requested exchange comes through. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it to me? No doubt.

 

[Chase]

Thanks to all of you for weighing in. We'll see where I end up -- should know in the next month or so.

Really appreciate the good insight. I wish there was more to read -- but I've pretty much read the entire Marriott BBS, and done every web search I can.

The published books on the topic seem pretty weak -- and never address the value of a resort network or a highly demanded site. Too foten they generalize the industry in either unrealistically glowing or negative terms.

Thanks to everyone. I'll keep reading as long as you keep writing.

 

[PerryM]

Splat

The last bit of advice I’ll throw up against the wall is:

Vacation needs change very rapidly in a family – timeshares do not change at all.

Although a ski in/out is desirable today, 3 years from now it maybe an albatross killing your ability to experience something different in a vacation.

Granted a timeshare should be bought to be used, but a little knowledge and experience will have you way beyond that limitation.

An exercise that could be fruitful is to ask each member of the family to describe their ideal vacation. Don’t pressure one member into an answer what mom or dad wants – what does everyone really want in a vacation. The answers could be very insightful and will probably add doubt to finding the perfect solution.

As folks work longer in a job more vacation time is available to the family – how will that timeshare fit into this new picture.

So an examination of vacationing needs is definitely in order. An estimate of what the family will be doing in 5 years or 10 years will probably involve more timeshares and perhaps a totally different way of using vacation condos.

 

[Pit]

Before you lock up that kind of captial in a timeshare, you owe it to yourself to look into the Hyatt system (if you haven't already done so).

Hyatt owners here on TUG say their reservation system is much more user-friendly, and they have fabulous ski properties in Breck, Tahoe, Beaver Creek, and Aspen. You can buy at any of the Hyatt properties. You don't have to own at the resort you want to use.

 

[Chase]

Perry--

My thoughts exactly. My wife and I aren't really beach folks...skied every year until we had our first child.

With the kids at 4 and 2 X 21 months we'll probably ski alone (and lockoff the studio for rental/swap) for the next 2-3 years and then introduce the kids. If the kids hate it we could be looking for an alternative...hence my potential 7-10 year out window.

Will certainly keep your thoughts in mind. You've been very helpful. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom.

Thanks.

Bill

 

[gores95]

Perry--

My thoughts exactly. My wife and I aren't really beach folks...skied every year until we had our first child.

With the kids at 4 and 2 X 21 months we'll probably ski alone (and lockoff the studio for rental/swap) for the next 2-3 years and then introduce the kids. If the kids hate it we could be looking for an alternative...hence my potential 7-10 year out window.

Will certainly keep your thoughts in mind. You've been very helpful. I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom.

Thanks.

Bill

Bill we are a skiing family as well and with our new Aruba purchase I will certainly be attempting to trade into one of the Marriott ski locations.

Our two daughters are 9 and 4 and we started both skiing at age 3. The earlier they start the better IMHO. The ski clubs for kids are fantastic and they take frequent hot chocolate/snack breaks when they are very young. When our 9 yo turned 7 she was able to ski with us on just about every trail we would want to ski (no double blacks for ANY of us! ).

Bottom line don't be afraid to bring your kids NOW on your ski vacation! Even your youngest would have fun in the mountain's daycare program.

 

[hipslo]

Bill we are a skiing family as well and with our new Aruba purchase I will certainly be attempting to trade into one of the Marriott ski locations.

Our two daughters are 9 and 4 and we started both skiing at age 3. The earlier they start the better IMHO. The ski clubs for kids are fantastic and they take frequent hot chocolate/snack breaks when they are very young. When our 9 yo turned 7 she was able to ski with us on just about every trail we would want to ski (no double blacks for ANY of us! ).

Bottom line don't be afraid to bring your kids NOW on your ski vacation! Even your youngest would have fun in the mountain's daycare program.

I would agree with that - we have started all of our kids at age 4. My 10 year old can now ski all blues and most diamonds, my 7 year old can ski most blues, and my 4 year old - well, so long as he's happy in the ski school program (which is great at PC - just changed to limit number of kids per instructor to 3 at the youngest ages, and they spend most of the day indoors until age 5, with one morning and one afternoon session on skis), we're happy! The younger you expose them to skiing the better. And MS is just perfect for families with young kids. Since you are right there at the bottom of the lift, and next to the kids ski school, it is just so convenient to take frequent breaks and head into the room for lunch, snacks, etc. Go for it!

 

[divenski]

Thanks to all of you for weighing in. We'll see where I end up -- should know in the next month or so.

....

Thanks to everyone. I'll keep reading as long as you keep writing.

A different issue is whether there is a better time of year to buy a resale *ski* week? I know the general consensus is that end of the year is best to get a lower price because the MFs are due, etc, but for a ski week, I'd suggest that it might be better to buy at some other time, say the middle of summer.

Right now, the PC area is packed with skiers and Marriott is doing its best to pump up demand, and maybe needs to exercise its ROFR just to keep up with the demand. Come spring or summer, that could change.