Marriott Bundle Purchase-Advice Please.

[Nikonian]

I need some help evaluating a purchase I made before the recision period ends.

First a little background.
Usage.

We own Marriott Maui Ocean Club Platinum EOY, Shadow Ridge Platinum EOY, Grand Chateau Platinum EOY, and 2 Ocean Watch Villas Red every year.

The way we currently use our weeks are by occupying Maui Ocean Club.

I usually deposit a 2BR shadow ridge at II (and get an accommodation certificate from II) we use this deposit to go to a Marriott 2BR somewhere in Hawaii. I have been pretty successful at doing this however the last few years it has been getting difficult because of lower inventory of the Marriott Properties.

The Grand Chateau I usually lock off and give to II (and get 2 accommodation certificates) to go to various places.

We turn our Ocean Watch properties into MRP's every year and use the points to buy travel packages for larger trips every few years.

We don't own any DC points and have not played the points game.
We were thinking that we would like to somehow acquire 2500 DC points to use and get to the Presidential level.

We are at a Marriott property and went to a presentation and bought a "Bundle" package that consisted of 1500 DC points for $17,060 (11.73 per pt) with 1500DC points as an incentive (MF=$750). That was bundled with a Gold EOY Shadow Ridge week at a cost of $3450, MF is 639 and the point value is 1163 a year. The price per point is $7.70.

My questions are: Does this seem like a good deal? What determines what a good week is to get bundled with? I've seen some discussion about MF and point ratios but I don't understand them and I don't know what a good one is. What is the best way to acquire 2500 DC points? Is buying resale points a better option?
Is it better to have a week and points that add up to2500 or just have the points?

Any input would be helpful. Thanks

 

[davidvel]

Did you buy your weeks (not current one) from Marriott? If not, when did you buy them?

 

[Nikonian]

I did buy all my weeks thru Marriott they are all enrolled in the program.

 

[GreenTea]

If your weeks are enrolled there isn't much reason to buy additional points, in my mind anyway.

 

[JIMinNC]

The MF to point ratio has to do with the MF cost of each point.

DC Trust points have a MF of $0.5025 per point; Your new Gold EOY Shadow Ridge has a MF of $0.55; so you are getting a total of 2663 points for $1389/year, or $0.52 MF per point.

If you instead bought the 2500 Trust points you need, the MF cost would be $1256 per year. So the bundled plan costs you $133/year more per year in MF than if you owned Trust points.

Given that your bundled package at $20,510 up front is probably saving you about $8,000 up front versus buying 2500 DC points from Marriott, it's obvious that it's much better to pay that extra $133/year in MF than the higher upfront cost. You would have to pay the higher MF for 60 years to eat up your upfront savings.

Comparing to resale points is a closer call. The TUG consensus is it will take about $5/point to clear ROFR on resale points (This is theorized based on recent ROFR exercises at around $4.75/point, but I'm not sure I've read of $5/pt sales that have passed ROFR. I think it is just speculation right now.) Marriott then adds a $2/point initiation fee for a total purchase cost of about $7/point.

So if you bought 2500 resale points at $7/pt, the upfront cost would be $17,500, meaning your bundle costs $3000 MORE than external resale points. You would also still be paying $133 MORE in MF per year for your bundle. So based just on the numbers, the bundled package is less attractive than external resale points - it costs more both up front and in annual MF.

My feeling has always been its better to buy a bundle from Marriott as long as the price premium vs resale points is not excessive, because by buying the bundle:

1.) You are more insulated - future protected - from any rules changes Marriott might impose in the future on resale points
2.) You have an extra deeded week that you can choose to use in the Weeks/II system in any given year if you so choose - more flexibility

Only you can determine whether the value to you in going to Presidential level is worth $17,000 to $20,000 up front plus the additional annual MF costs. Similarly, would the future protection benefit and weeks usage/flexibility benefit justify - for you - $3000 more up front and a bit more in MF per year for the bundle vs resale points?

We bought a bundle back in 2014, but our net cost per point was right at $7/point, so that was basically a wash vs resale points. So we opted for the bundle.

 

[Fasttr]

We were thinking that we would like to somehow acquire 2500 DC points to use and get to the Presidential level.

To me, this is the big question...

If 2500 points gets you to Presidential, what benefits are you seeking that you cannot already get at Executive level (which is where I assume you already are). Most here would agree, the big jump up in benefits where you are actually getting something of value is from the lower levels jumping to Executive, as at Executive and higher, you can book 1+ night ressie's at 13 months out, rather than having to wait till 10 months to book the shorter stays. Assuming you already have that benefit, what additional benefits are you seeking that Presidential can give you?

If its simply additional points that you seek, have you considered renting the additional points from others who have excess. There are a couple great sights run by TUGgers where you can accomplish that.

 

[GregT]

To me, this is the big question...

If 2500 points gets you to Presidential, what benefits are you seeking that you cannot already get at Executive level (which is where I assume you already are). Most here would agree, the big jump up in benefits where you are actually getting something of value is from the lower levels jumping to Executive, as at Executive and higher, you can book 1+ night ressie's at 13 months out, rather than having to wait till 10 months to book the shorter stays. Assuming you already have that benefit, what additional benefits are you seeking that Presidential can give you?

If its simply additional points that you seek, have you considered renting the additional points from others who have excess. There are a couple great sights run by TUGgers where you can accomplish that.

I'm with Fasttr on this one -- I would pass on the bundle and simply rent points when you need them. The key is being at Executive, where you can reserve individual night reservations. I think the primary advantage of Presidential is a longer banking window and only you can determine if that is worth the purchase price.

If you were going to spend $20K - $30K, I would buy purely Trust Points because I think Trust Points will become more useful to book the scarce properties. Earlier this year, I noted a pattern where Ritz Carlton St. Thomas was only available to someone partially using Trust Points to make the reservation. It needed 44% of the points required to be Trust Points. I think we will see more instances of that in the future.

Best,

Greg

 

[davidvel]

It sure seems like a lot of upfront money $20,000.00 (and ongoing MF commitment $1,400.00/yr) for such minimal added benefits. You already have access to as many DC points as you may want in the future, and only pay MF when you rent them.

This is especially true as you never have had the need for the DC points you already have access to, and week trades are often a much better value than DC points reservations, due to skim, inability to up-trade, etc.

 

[BocaBoy]

With the weeks OP owns, I am surprised that he/she is not already at Presidential level. The Maui week must be in the original towers and maybe mountain/garden view, and the others are maybe off season weeks? What is Red season at Ocean Watch? When colors were used to label the seasons at some of the early MVCI resorts, Red was the highest season, but it must be different at Ocean Watch.

 

[dioxide45]

With the weeks OP owns, I am surprised that he/she is not already at Presidential level. The Maui week must be in the original towers and maybe mountain/garden view, and the others are maybe off season weeks? What is Red season at Ocean Watch? When colors were used to label the seasons at some of the early MVCI resorts, Red was the highest season, but it must be different at Ocean Watch.

Many of the OPs weeks are every other year. So they only count as half of the annual amount toward ownership level.

 

[Nikonian]

Thank you TUGgers for the very prompt response to my plea for help.

Just to clear up a couple of things, Yes I am at the executive status. My Maui Ocean Club is Napili Villas EOY mountain view. The Ocean Watch week is a Bronze week not red, I must have had Redweek on my mind.

Jim thank you for the detailed explanation on the MF/PTs ratio. It is very helpful.

So after reading all of your input I have realized that there really is no point to having a status of Presidential if you are not in the points game. If I was in the points game then the only real significant feature is a longer banking window and the last minute reservation discounts are 60 day vs 30 days.

We go to Maui in Even years.

I have been trading Shadow Ridge 2BR into II for a 2 Br Usually at Ko Olina but sometimes Waiohai for odd years. I get an Accommodation certificate for this and a 2 for 1.

The 2 Ocean Watch are turned in every year for MRPs they are only worth 1050 DC points each but 75,000 MRPs. These points buy a travel package every 2-3 years.

That leaves me the Grand Chateau property to play with. I typically lock it off and give to II. I get 2 Accommodation certificates, one for each deposit and two 2 for 1 weeks. Since I get 6 weeks out of this usage method it doesn't make sense to me to turn them into the trust and get 4 days somewhere else.

The Accommodation Certificates from II are getting more restrictive and the Marriott inventory is pretty spotty. I do have some luck within the 59 day window, but that is more restrictive lately too. You really can't plan anything with those. They are usually spontaneous trips.

The 2 for 1 weeks are nice because if you choose a Marriott property the cost is $0. It is usually a shoulder season week somewhere that they have excess inventory, and you need to be flexible. So again you have to be flexible, and not something you can plan.

I thought that having some DC points would enable me to add on to existing trips and also plan a vacation other than that I would like to go on. Being Presidential is not really important to me but it would be a bonus.

So I think I have decided to rescind my purchase and just rent points as I need them. I think I will just save that $20,000 and additional MF.

Can you suggest places to buy or rent points? I was at VacationPointExchange today and there was some but not a lot of inventory. I am familiar with Redweek.
What other places can you suggest to rent points, buy points or rent weeks?

Thank you again for the detailed and prompt response.

 

[BocaBoy]

Many of the OPs weeks are every other year. So they only count as half of the annual amount toward ownership level.

I understood that, but a Maui EOY in Napili Tower with a view would be over 3700 points toward status (would be 7475 points every other year) and two annual Ocean Watch weeks could also be a lot of points. But OP has clarified Ocean Watch as bronze (very low point value) and the Maui EOY as island view. Even so, OP is close to Presidential.

 

[Fasttr]

Can you suggest places to buy or rent points? I was at VacationPointExchange today and there was some but not a lot of inventory. I am familiar with Redweek. What other places can you suggest to rent points, buy points or rent weeks?

I believe VPE is certainly the most active. www.Ownertrades.com (run by another TUGger) also has point rental listings, and usually a decent listing of brokers selling resale points as well.

As for VPE, I believe you have to register to see the Classifieds, which is where folks will list their points for rent. There are currently 10-15 listed, which is pretty much the norm. There seems to be a decent flow of activity for rentals. Certainly more supply than demand as far as I can tell, so there are always points at the ready if you need them.

 

[Nikonian]

In addition to the question about where to rent points, I have one other question. If I decided I no longer wanted to use travel packages it might not be necessary to own one or both Ocean Watch bronze weeks. What are some options to get rid of them. They may not be the best purchase I have made but I have already got a lot more value out of them than what I paid for them.
Any thoughts?

 

[davidvel]

So I think I have decided to rescind my purchase and just rent points as I need them. I think I will just save that $20,000 and additional MF.

Can you suggest places to buy or rent points? I was at VacationPointExchange today and there was some but not a lot of inventory. I am familiar with Redweek.
What other places can you suggest to rent points, buy points or rent weeks?

Thank you again for the detailed and prompt response.

Yes, rescind and put the 20,000 in a cookie jar.

You seem to be getting ahead of yourself, again. Why rent? You own 5 enrolled weeks (that you bought at DEVELOPER prices).You've never even tried the DC point system.

Why not elect one or more of your weeks and test out the DC?

 

[frank808]

In addition to the question about where to rent points, I have one other question. If I decided I no longer wanted to use travel packages it might not be necessary to own one or both Ocean Watch bronze weeks. What are some options to get rid of them. They may not be the best purchase I have made but I have already got a lot more value out of them than what I paid for them.
Any thoughts?

Could use them as traders for shoulder weeks at other marriott properties. No exchange fees. Why sell them at a loss when the cost is already paid. Use them effectively within the II system when you no longer want mrp points.

 

[Fi2]

We actually sold a developer-purchased Fairway Villas gold week, back to Marriott, and purchased a Newport Coast platinum week instead, in order to reduce our average MF fee/point. If you truly feel like you've gotten your value back (we did) why not reduce ongoing costs?