2026 Maintenance Fees Discussion

[WaikikiFirst]

Of all the weeks go up shouldn’t the pts

Not necessarily. In financial analysis & reporting, when there is a denominator, as in ASP or this, there is something called MIX.
Long story, short, if they put more low MF deeds into the trust. the MF/ TrustPt could fall even if each individual budget rose, couldn't it.
I don't own MVC & I don't know all the details, but don't forget "MIX"

Likewise, if you sell 4 products and you raise the price on all of them, but suddenly the lowest price product is the only one selling, then your ASP falls

 

[vacationtime1]

It is absurd to believe that any cost savings measures and any changes in the composition of the trust properties balanced out operating costs increases (to a thousandth of a penny). Note that operating expenses decreased by exactly the same amount as property taxes increased (to a thousandth of a penny).

My hypothesis is that Marriott cooked the books -- both last year and this year.

 

[Superchief]

I own seven legacy MVC weeks at different resorts. Ocean Pointe and Oceana Palms MF's increased 25% over the past two years and my others went up a lot more than the points MF increases. MVC is definitely doing something to cook the books behind the scenes to drive owners away from their legacy weeks. Even if the average resort MF's increase by only 2%, how can points remain flat. MVC has also been buying back legacy weeks with lower value points, so this should increase their costs per point.

 

[jabberwocky]

Any good accountant will tell you there are many different ways to allocate costs. Most of them are legal and based upon estimates. This is different than cooking the books - which is usually illegal.

Tell me what you’d like the number to be and we can typically find a way to get you there, as long as we know in advance.

 

[igopogo]

Agreed, and you do it at home all the time (well, if you are budgeting). You know you’ve got a roof repair coming next year, so you put off vacation til the following year.

In fact I think it’s normal for a company to fix a target and then figure out what it takes to get there. Preventative maintenance, deferred maintenance, layoffs, changes in compensation structure. There are lots of levers to pull, hopefully with a long term strategy.

 

[vacationtime1]

Any good accountant will tell you there are many different ways to allocate costs. Most of them are legal and based upon estimates. This is different than cooking the books - which is usually illegal.

Tell me what you’d like the number to be and we can typically find a way to get you there, as long as we know in advance.

There is a difference between legality and honesty.

Of course MVC's estimates are legal, but they are clearly deceptive (to a thousandth of a penny) and almost certainly done to help its sales staff sell the product.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Any good accountant will tell you there are many different ways to allocate costs. Most of them are legal and based upon estimates. This is different than cooking the books - which is usually illegal. Tell me what you’d like the number to be and we can typically find a way to get you there, as long as we know in advance.

Exactly. When I read the words "cooking the books", those exact same thoughts went thru my head.
I'm tempted to tell the details of a conversation I had in 1995 with the CFO of a well-known tech company (yup, in Sili Valley). But, just the tip, just the punchline.
We were discussing the bear story that he was delaying/capitalizing expenses and that this had raised his EPS by $0.05 in the latest quarter. Punchline:
"$0.05? I can reach into my drawer over here and pull out $0.25. $0.05? Come on."
(he was a great guy. maybe the most straight-fwd CFO I ever talked to.)

 

[goodbadugly]

Exactly. When I read the words "cooking the books", those exact same thoughts went thru my head.
I'm tempted to tell the details of a conversation I had in 1995 with the CFO of a well-known tech company (yup, in Sili Valley). But, just the tip, just the punchline.
We were discussing the bear story that he was delaying/capitalizing expenses and that this had raised his EPS by $0.05 in the latest quarter. Punchline:
"$0.05? I can reach into my drawer over here and pull out $0.25. $0.05? Come on."
(he was a great guy. maybe the most straight-fwd CFO I ever talked to.)

That CFO and his executive team were more than likely paid a bonus on that "better" EPS!

 

[Superchief]

MVC is supposed to pay their fair share of maintenance fees at each resort based on how many weeks are owned by the trust. Therefore the increase at each resort should show up in MVC trust points cost per week and reflect a weighted average (based on resort weeks in the trust). From the resorts that I've seen proposed budgets, the increases are from 2-19%. Has anyone seen a MVC resort budget that has no increase for 2026? This should raise the suspicion of all who own weeks at MVC resorts.

I also believe that bad debt expenses should be paid from the management fees, since their aggressive tactics and management have caused this problem.

 

[wuv pooh]

So looks like Marriott absorbed a tax hit in order to keep their promise of no increase in Abound fees? Can't imagine how taxes across all properties would fall by 50% per point. Is there any way to push that onto owners in the future or is it a cash and carry requirement?

[Moderator Note: Post and several replies moved from the 2026 MF's sticky thread.] <-- SueDonJ

 

[sponger76]

I also believe that bad debt expenses should be paid from the management fees, since their aggressive tactics and management have caused this problem.

One might think that fair, but the reality is that's just not going to happen; legally it falls on all members of the HOA, aka the owners.

 

[Superchief]

Abound Trust Points

2026 Operating Fee: 81.216 cents per point
2026 Property Tax Fee: 0.264 cents per point
Total: 81.480 cents per point, for a 0.0% uptick.
Represented per BI (250 points) = $203.70

2026 Club Dues (up $5-$15 from prior year, depending on level)
$255 Owners and Select Members
$300 Executive and Presidential Members
$320 Chairman's Club Members

Prior year…
2025 Operating Fee: 80.944 cents per point
2025 Property Tax Fee: 0.536 cents per point
Total: 81.480 cents per point.

Doesn't the trust have to pay anything into the reserve funds? Those are increasing significantly in Florida. They make 10% management fee from these expenses and I would think they would have to pay their fair share of reserve expenses

 

[Carlsbadguy]

Marriott Kauai Beach Club did not increase its mtc fee this year.

 

[billymach4]

Abound to be as Flatish as you can get. They must have Flat Earthers running abound.

 

[timtax]

The only other way that I can think of would be changing the mix of deeds in the Trust to reduce holdings with direct real estate tax payments and swap out deeds with higher maintenance fees per point. A very big task and unlikely.

 

[SueDonJ]

Moderator Note: Now that the Abound Trust MF's have been released and the Weeks MF's will be released soon, multiple threads have been merged here to prevent cross-posting and duplication of MF's discussions.

 

[daviator]

Doesn't the trust have to pay anything into the reserve funds? Those are increasing significantly in Florida. They make 10% management fee from these expenses and I would think they would have to pay their fair share of reserve expenses

The trust owns weeks at the various resort and pays the maintenance fees associated with those weeks, a large component of which are contributions to the various reserve accounts. The trust pays into those just like any other weeks owner.

 

[Superchief]

The trust owns weeks at the various resort and pays the maintenance fees associated with those weeks, a large component of which are contributions to the various reserve accounts. The trust pays into those just like any other weeks owner.

Since I own trust points, I tried to read the details regarding the budget. The Reserve fee descriptions were very nebulous and they don't break out component costs. I still don't understand how they indicate a 2% increase across resorts but no increase for points.

 

[daviator]

Since I own trust points, I tried to read the details regarding the budget. The Reserve fee descriptions were very nebulous and they don't break out component costs. I still don't understand how they indicate a 2% increase across resorts but no increase for points.

I agree that they are far from transparent.

What I would ASSUME is that they have added some low-MF weeks to the trust. What I mean is that there are properties where the maintenance fee for a week divided by the number of Abound points applicable to that week is a cost per point that's lower than the average. By buying up or otherwise adding low MF weeks to the trust, they can lower the average cost per point (or in this case, keep it the same) even though MFs have gone up.

This isn't necessarily a good thing for owners of trust points – because the resorts they are adding are probably lower-demand properties/seasons/unit types, and so while they now have more trust points they can sell, they haven't actually added inventory at the popular properties where most owners actually want to go. They are adding junk inventory that are kind of "the dregs." This is one of the problems with Abound... as they look for more points to sell, they will increasingly add junky inventory but they continue to sell the dream of Hawaii and other high-demand locations, leading to increased demand without any increase in supply for the properties most in demand.

Again, I'm just speculating about how they kept MFs the same while they rose across the portfolio of properties, but this is the only way I can think of that they could have done so.

 

[frank808]

Most of the "junk" inventory is usually bronze and silver weeks that have relatively low DP points to Maintenance fee ratio. Adding those weeks would actually increase the MF of trust points for everyone.

MVC would have to add high DP point weeks with low MF to lower the cost of trust points. But this would be a very large amount of points and costly to exercise.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

 

[WaikikiFirst]

That CFO and his executive team were more than likely paid a bonus on that "better" EPS!

someone else who loves replying to something he/she didn't understand in the first place. You do not understand what he meant by " I can reach into my drawer over here and pull out $0.25." glwt

 

[b2bailey]

someone else who loves replying to something he/she didn't understand in the first place. You do not understand what he meant by " I can reach into my drawer over here and pull out $0.25." glwt

I understood it to mean...
"If I can pull out $0.25, why stop at $0.05?"
Is that correct?

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I understood it to mean...
"If I can pull out $0.25, why stop at $0.05?"
Is that correct?

"I can reach into my drawer over here and pull out $0.25." means "I have been overly expensing not under-expensing. Times are so good, revenue is so strong, I can over-expense and save some profit for a rainy-day (in the drawer). So, if the CEO & CFO had focused on short-term annual bonus, they would not have EPS saved in a drawer

 

[m61376]

It'll be interesting to see what happens this year. On the Aruba OC FB page it was posted that they were told at the owner's meeting there wasn't going to be any MF increase this year. Nothing has been posted on the SC FB page and the moderator (understandably) doesn't want any questions about it to avoid starting rumors. Given that point MF's didn't increase it's possible that we might be in for a good year overall....

 

[goodbadugly]

someone else who loves replying to something he/she didn't understand in the first place. You do not understand what he meant by " I can reach into my drawer over here and pull out $0.25." glwt

If it is not transparent...it is financial manipulation!