Marbella owners - questions

[ocdb8r]

Hey, wondering if there are any Marriott Marbella owners out there that can answer a few questions for me? I have a co-worker here in London that wants to get rid of their Gold week and we've worked out a decent price. However, as I am from the States I am not entirely clear on how the owneship structure is set up. I know that it is a RTU, however is the unit deeded? The only thing my co-worker currently has in hand is the "Owneship Certificate" that Marriott sends out to new owners. Shouldn't there also be a deed? Or is it possible that given this is a RTU that the resort maintains just an ownership record of some sort (a la Worldmark) where you don't have a deed? Any light you can shed on this or the transfer process would be much appreciated. They are under the impression that Marriott handles it all which is a bit different from the States where you have a title transfer company handling it.

Also, wondering if someone can explain how Gold vs. Gold Holiday weeks work? I know this is a Gold week ownership but I also know that Gold Holiday week owners can choose to reserve either a Gold Holiday week period OR a regular Gold week period (just what I have read in old TUG threads - maybe this is not correct). If this is the case, are regular Gold week owners able to reserve the Gold Holiday weeks at some point? I just don't understand how the weeks would balance out properly if Gold Holiday week owners reserved into my season, but I couldn't reserve into theirs at some point. I don't really have a desire to reserve anything that falls into Gold Holiday season but am more worried that I am competing with Gold Holiday AND regular Gold season owners for the UK bank holiday periods (many of which don't fall into the Gold Holiday season, e.g. the early May and late August bank holidays).

Anything else I should be thinking about?

 

[dima]

I own Marbella and have only Owneship Certificate that is RTU. It looks like all properties locatated out of the US are RTU.
I have a Gold week and never had a problem reserving week in my season. I know that I can'r reserve Holliday week and never tried.
Good Luck!

 

[MALC9990]

Hey, wondering if there are any Marriott Marbella owners out there that can answer a few questions for me? I have a co-worker here in London that wants to get rid of their Gold week and we've worked out a decent price. However, as I am from the States I am not entirely clear on how the owneship structure is set up. I know that it is a RTU, however is the unit deeded? The only thing my co-worker currently has in hand is the "Owneship Certificate" that Marriott sends out to new owners. Shouldn't there also be a deed? Or is it possible that given this is a RTU that the resort maintains just an ownership record of some sort (a la Worldmark) where you don't have a deed? Any light you can shed on this or the transfer process would be much appreciated. They are under the impression that Marriott handles it all which is a bit different from the States where you have a title transfer company handling it.

Also, wondering if someone can explain how Gold vs. Gold Holiday weeks work? I know this is a Gold week ownership but I also know that Gold Holiday week owners can choose to reserve either a Gold Holiday week period OR a regular Gold week period (just what I have read in old TUG threads - maybe this is not correct). If this is the case, are regular Gold week owners able to reserve the Gold Holiday weeks at some point? I just don't understand how the weeks would balance out properly if Gold Holiday week owners reserved into my season, but I couldn't reserve into theirs at some point. I don't really have a desire to reserve anything that falls into Gold Holiday season but am more worried that I am competing with Gold Holiday AND regular Gold season owners for the UK bank holiday periods (many of which don't fall into the Gold Holiday season, e.g. the early May and late August bank holidays).

Anything else I should be thinking about?

Whilst I do not own at Marbella Beach Club, I do own weeks at Playa Andaluz and Son Antem Mallorca and the ownership structure is very similar for all these European Marriott’s. The weeks are all RTU and so there is no "Deed" as such. Each week owned has a Marriott Deed-id to identify it in the MVCI system but all I have for each of my weeks is an ownership certificate.

The way the season work at these resorts is that there are several seasons in the year, Platinum, Gold Holiday, Gold and Silver. Ownership of a week in a season Only permits usage in that season so a Gold Holiday owner can only book a week in the Gold Holiday Season and does not have rights to weeks in the Gold Season.

When I was at Marbella Beach Club on an Interval A/CV week in January I noticed that in the reception area there was an owners notice board which had a few cards posted from owners wishing to sell their weeks. No prices, just phone numbers listed. Another route to sell would be through an agent in the UK. If you PM me I can send you details of the resale agent I have used for resale purchases at Marriott in Mallorca. There is still a small sales team based in the Marbella Beach Club but I think they mainly sell developer weeks at other MVCI weeks resorts such as Playa Andaluz and Paris France. It might be worth your co-worker contacting the sales team at Marbella to see if they are doing resales but I would guess they are not in that business right now. My recent newsletter from Son Antem Mallorca informed me that all resale requests were to go through an MVCI office in Florida.

Having purchased 2 resale weeks in Son Antem Mallorca, the process was very simple - the agent held the funds in a UK equivalent of Escrow - they use a separate client account which keeps money separate from the agent's business account. The agent I used charges a sales commission after the sale is completed and charges a buyers commission upfront which is refundable if the sale falls through. Once the seller and buyer have singed the sale contract, the agent processes all the documentation with Marriott and gets the sale through ROFR and then when the transfer is registered with MVCI - the buyer gets the signed contracts back and a certificate of ownership identifying the deed-id registered with MVCI and the week appears in the buyers Vacation Club Account.
The slow bit is usually with Marriott taking time to process the transfewr of ownership and to decline the ROFR.

Prices for Marriott resales in Europe are much lower than developer prices but are nowhere near as low as resale prices seem to be in the USA. I would say they are at about 25% of current developer prices.

 

[ocdb8r]

Thanks for all the info. It sounds like what my co-worker has is indeed the only proof of ownership. Bit disconcerting compared to the US...seems like Marriott could be printing as many as these "certificates" as they like

Anyhow, given it's Marriott that handles all the actual transfers, is an agent really necessary? (I know this person well enough not to be concerned about lack of escrow) My co-worker has already contacted Marriott to get the required paperwork from them. I'm curious if Marriott is exercising ROFR as I am paying significantly less than 25% off developer prices.

Thanks also for the clarification on seasons. The explanation sounds more like I imagined it should work, however there were some old posts here that where potential purchasers of Gold Holiday weeks were told they could reserve in regular Gold season...glad this is not the case as I am quite happy to avoid the peak seasons (and as I mentioned Gold season includes some very attractive weeks for me personally).

 

[dima]

I wouldn't worry for ROFR as my friend bought Marriott's France TS for $4000 about 2 month ago and it passed ROFR.

 

[JonP]

a Gold Holiday owner can only book a week in the Gold Holiday Season and does not have rights to weeks in the Gold Season.

I believe this is incorrect. It is my understanding that owners of Gold Hoilday weeks can reserve Gold Season.

As a result of the issues this caused at both Marbella and Son Antem, the Gold Hoilday season was not applied to Playa which only has Silver, Gold & Platinum.

 

[ocdb8r]

I believe this is incorrect. It is my understanding that owners of Gold Hoilday weeks can reserve Gold Season.

So how does this work for Gold season owners? Say 20 Gold Holiday season owners book into regular Gold season...there has to be some opportunity for Gold season owners to book those 20 Gold Holiday season weeks or the ownerhsip/usage doesn't balance out... Understandably there are likely to be problems if this is indeed the case, just curious how they have approached it thus far.

 

[cwtkm3]

I'm not sure how it works but I own Gold holiday at Marbella which allows me to book gold and GH weeks. I have booked gold weeks a few times without any problems. Gold owners can't book the Gold hol weeks, they cost more than the gold weeks.

A good resale co. which even Marriott recommends is Travel and Leisure group.

Minutes form the Oct boeard meetings at both Playa and Marbella state Marriott is not buying back any European weeks other than some plat and some gold hol and gold weeks at Son Antem.

You can pick up cheap Marbella and Playa weeks which bugs me cos I bought developer back in 2002!! The maintenance fees are steep and I sometimes wonder if worth it but having said that can't complain about the holidays we've taken over the years including travel packages to USA and Oz flying business.

Marbella last year (May gold hol week) has pulled a July Radisson Golden Sands resort in Malta which looks top notch so we'll see.

 

[Venter]

Holiday Calender

Hi,

I know that holidays for all regions are different but please make sure about the fact that the gold week allows you to book some of the school holidays in your region.

I looked at Marbella before, and just did again to confirm, but did not buy gold there as only the Gold Holiday periods fell within the school holiday times. I did however just do a general google search for UK school holiday calender 2011. So it may be that your regions school holiday terms fall within the gold times.

I do own at Son Antem during gold as I have found my regions school holdays sometimes fall within the first gold week following either a platinum or gold holiday period. I also recently added a gold Playa because they do not have gold holiday. It is a bit of a nightmare to reserve a high demand week though.

Just do not want you to end up making the purchase to find out you actually got it wrong and you cannot realy use your week.

 

[MALC9990]

I was certainly under the impression that Gold Holiday owners at Sion Antem could not book Gold weeks but I will check my documentation from my original developer weeks purchase to see what is stated there (if anything).

One thing to bear in mind concerning school holidays is that these resorts in Europe have to cover school holidays across all of Europe - which would be the main market for sales for these resorts. School holiday periods do differ somewhat across Europe.

In the 2011 calendar for Son Antem for example UK summer school holidays would not require a Gold Holiday week to book - almost all of the weeks of UK school holidays are Plat weeks starting with checkin from Fri Jul 15th. Plat weeks switch direct to Gold weeks for checkin from Fri Aug 26th.

School holidays also start at different times across tthe UK. In my areas the summer school holidays start on Thurs 28th July in 2011 - which is into Plat season at Son Antem. Schools start again on Mon 5th Sept. Only checkin on Fri Aug 26th would be inside school holiday period and that is the only Gold checkin date that is inside school holidays.

 

[Venter]

I was certainly under the impression that Gold Holiday owners at Sion Antem could not book Gold weeks but I will check my documentation from my original developer weeks purchase to see what is stated there (if anything).

School holidays also start at different times across tthe UK. In my areas the summer school holidays start on Thurs 28th July in 2011 - which is into Plat season at Son Antem. Schools start again on Mon 5th Sept. Only checkin on Fri Aug 26th would be inside school holiday period and that is the only Gold checkin date that is inside school holidays.

This is what I meant by booking a gold time at the end of the plats as some of my regions holidays continue either a week after plat or before it starts and I can therefore book these times with my gold. I cannot book gold holidays.

As I mentioned it does not seem that Marbella has any areas for me that I would be able to do this.

 

[MALC9990]

I checked my original documents for my developer purchase at Son Antem and indeed it is correct that Gold Holiday owners have the ability to book Gold season weeks.

What I do not know is how the system would handle the situation where too many Gold Holiday owners book Gold season weeks and leave a deficit of weeks available to Gold season owners and a surplus of Gold Holiday weeks that no one can book since the Gold season owners may not book them and the Gold Holiday season owners have used up their weeks. This would seem to be a possibile scenario.

I do know that the 3 Gold season weeks that preceed the Plat summer season are in high demand and that Gold owners who fail to book these weeks early will be dissapointed. This is the time we always go to Son Antem and we always book as soon as we can.

 

[MALC9990]

Thanks for all the info. It sounds like what my co-worker has is indeed the only proof of ownership. Bit disconcerting compared to the US...seems like Marriott could be printing as many as these "certificates" as they like

Anyhow, given it's Marriott that handles all the actual transfers, is an agent really necessary? (I know this person well enough not to be concerned about lack of escrow) My co-worker has already contacted Marriott to get the required paperwork from them. I'm curious if Marriott is exercising ROFR as I am paying significantly less than 25% off developer prices.

Thanks also for the clarification on seasons. The explanation sounds more like I imagined it should work, however there were some old posts here that where potential purchasers of Gold Holiday weeks were told they could reserve in regular Gold season...glad this is not the case as I am quite happy to avoid the peak seasons (and as I mentioned Gold season includes some very attractive weeks for me personally).

On the question of is an agent really necessary - well if you were selling a house or other property in the UK - you don't NEED an agent and you don't NEED a lawyer but the vast majority of us do use the services of an Estate Agent and a Solicitor or Conveyancing company to get the sale done. Selling a TS is perhaps not as complicated as selling a house but it still has its difficulties and is often located in another country so if selling (which I am not) I would use an agent

From a re-sale buyer's perspective (which I have been) - I want someone other than the owner involved - I want to ensure that the legal documents are done correctly (e.g. HOTA), I want someone to ensure my money is held safe until the TS week has been transferred into my name. I want someone to be my interface to the resort company to deal with those problems and delays that they have the experise and experience to deal with.

For that I am willing to pay a fee.

 

[yanyaa]

Wi Fi at Marbella Beach Resort

Does anyone know what the charges are for wifi service in your room?

 

[ocdb8r]

I checked my original documents for my developer purchase at Son Antem and indeed it is correct that Gold Holiday owners have the ability to book Gold season weeks.

What I do not know is how the system would handle the situation where too many Gold Holiday owners book Gold season weeks and leave a deficit of weeks available to Gold season owners and a surplus of Gold Holiday weeks that no one can book since the Gold season owners may not book them and the Gold Holiday season owners have used up their weeks. This would seem to be a possibile scenario.

It's not just the idea of "too many". If every single owner was using their week (unlikely, I know), just ONE Gold Holiday owner booking into regular Gold season would displace ONE regular Gold season owner. Granted there is likely some give in the system as weeks go unused, but I would think this could be a REAL problem.

As for the holiday debate, my desire was to use for bank holidays that DON'T coincide with school holidays...prefer to avoid throngs of kids (no offense to anyone). The Gold season offers a few of these opportunities so I'm quite happy with it assuming it's not impossible to book given the math of the above mentioned problem.

 

[MALC9990]

WIFI in Marbella Beach Club ? - YES

Does anyone know what the charges are for wifi service in your room?

Yes WIFI is installed in each appartment. When you check in they will give you a code that you enter when you first log in. For Marriott Owners it is complimentary for non-owners then I am afraid you pay hotel WIFI rates.

For owners they will give you as many codes as you need for multiple devices since a code may only be used once. I used one for each iPhone and one for the laptop.

WIFI performance was OK for eMail abd surfin but I would not try downloading movies.

There is a small internet room with some PCs that can be used. You pay for the time used.

 

[MALC9990]

It's not just the idea of "too many". If every single owner was using their week (unlikely, I know), just ONE Gold Holiday owner booking into regular Gold season would displace ONE regular Gold season owner. Granted there is likely some give in the system as weeks go unused, but I would think this could be a REAL problem.

As for the holiday debate, my desire was to use for bank holidays that DON'T coincide with school holidays...prefer to avoid throngs of kids (no offense to anyone). The Gold season offers a few of these opportunities so I'm quite happy with it assuming it's not impossible to book given the math of the above mentioned problem.

I guess they must work on an assumption that some owners do exchange for MR points and so they have flexibility but essentially you are correct - if even one GOLD Holiday week owner booked a Gold week then there has to be one Gold week owner who gets pushed out. I think I will raise it with a friend who sits on the Advisory board. May get an answer that way but I will not be holding my breath for too long.

 

[Bwolf]

Last April, as exchangers thru II, we were given the code free. So, we were treated as owners. In fact, the young lady who came with the free bottle of wine and a mild sales pitch for Playa Andaluza thought we were owners.

Yes WIFI is installed in each appartment. When you check in they will give you a code that you enter when you first log in. For Marriott Owners it is complimentary for non-owners then I am afraid you pay hotel WIFI rates.

For owners they will give you as many codes as you need for multiple devices since a code may only be used once. I used one for each iPhone and one for the laptop.

WIFI performance was OK for eMail abd surfin but I would not try downloading movies.

There is a small internet room with some PCs that can be used. You pay for the time used.

 

[PamMo]

I own Marbella and have only Owneship Certificate that is RTU. It looks like all properties locatated out of the US are RTU.
I have a Gold week and never had a problem reserving week in my season. I know that I can'r reserve Holliday week and never tried.
Good Luck!

I'm considering buying a Gold Week at Marbella, and am wondering how difficult it is to reserve one of the June weeks at 12 months out? Can you usually get one of the weeks, or is it next to impossible? Thank you.

 

[JonP]

I can’t vouch for Marbella but we have never had an issue booking any gold week at Playa 12 months out.

 

[Lets have less Greed]

The challengeith Phuket and Spain

It easy to buy, but impossible to sell at a fair value , the laws are not clear, this two international resorts are prime shorts which should sell at prime rates, the are sold out and have panache and a unique appeall, it however appears life is made difficult , you get frustrated you give up why struggle with this in a foreign country, and who owns it than.?.?? In a foreign country such as Thailand things are not clear, you are "not "entitled" to make a dividente on your investment.,who is the winner is decided in advance, who keeps his resort for 80 years ?