Looking to determine best StarOptions purchase price

[Noelle]

I am looking at Star Options purchase in order to use sometimes and to rent sometimes. I am looking at the purchase of 81,000 Options at minimum (2 Bd, 2Ba lockoff minimum) and comparing Westin Kierland, Harborside and Sheraton Vistana Villages.

I like to go into a purchase knowing what my target purchase price is, so I try to do some analysis of current listings and past purchase prices. I'm having a challenge comparing purchase prices (sale price/Star Option) across resorts and wonder if anyone has worked out some kind of algorithm to help. For example: 81000 Gold Season: Kierland 0.18/option, Villages 0.14/option, Harborside 0.20/option

Or alternatively, are there any other approaches to hone in on target purchase prices?

Thanks for your input Noelle

 

[DeniseM]

Most of the Starwood posts and owners are on the TUG Hotel Based TS Board and you will find a recent thread on your very question.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

 

[DavidnRobin]

DeniseM is correct - go to Hotel-board for discussions on this topic.

A few comments - it looks as if you are looking to buy a SVO resort that is SVN Mandatory so you can not only use or rent, but also exchange through the SVN system - correct? Otherwise, why limit yourself to Mandatory Resorts? (btw, we bought 3 SVN 'M' resorts resale...)

I would look at it in 3 ways - 1) where you want to go, 2) SVN exchange value, and then 3) rental value - and measure that against the unit/week cost ,the MFs, and the value upon resale. [Note: Direct exchange value can also play a roll here - for example St John (WSJ) has low SO exchange value, but great direct exchange value - and good rental value - and resale value - better depending on unit type and season. Of course, like Harborside, you are going to pay a $/SO premium for the location]

Not only is there a cost on a per SO basis ($/SO), but also consider the MFs per year - especially relative to the rental value. For example - if you buy a 2Bd LO at Kierland (WKV) in Platinum season (148.1K SOs) vs. a Gold season (81K SOs) - the MFs are the same, but the rental value for the Platinum season is much more.

Also - since you want to use it as a Owner - then first buy where you want to go.

So... what I am saying is to consider all factors in buying SVO resale - Location as an Owner, Mandatory or not, $/SO value, SVN exchange value, rental value - AND resale value if you were to ever want to sale.

There is no simple algorithm here - unless you buy purely to exchange thru SVN - then most would recommend buying Vistana Villages (VV). For us - we would only buy there for SVN exchange value since we would never go - so instead we bought 81K SO at WKV in Platinum Season because we can go there, or exchange into Hawaii (for example). So there is a premium ($/SO) in order to have WKV as a home resort over VV (for us).

Also, some people would consider the small LO portion to be more of a problem than it is worth (not all - some) - so you should consider this factor for yourself and family. This was a consideration why we only bought the large 1Bd side at WKV, and not the small side.

 

[Noelle]

Thanks all for your input - there is a lot to weigh in making a purchase that will fit my needs and will be 'thrifty' enough to keep my Scots ancestor's from rolling in their graves. (Note Thrifty translates into 'a bargain' not necessarily cheap!!)

I'm targeting WKV, 81,000 or 148,100. Difference will be cost/staroption. I'd be interested to know any of your experiences with similar purchases if you would care to share here or via PM.

I've had an opportunity for 148,100 at $25,500 WKV, but think I can do better than that.

Also am investigating a listing for 148,100 options asking $23,900 - any suggestions as to where my opening offer should be? Thanks....Noelle

 

[DavidnRobin]

Thanks all for your input - there is a lot to weigh in making a purchase that will fit my needs and will be 'thrifty' enough to keep my Scots ancestor's from rolling in their graves. (Note Thrifty translates into 'a bargain' not necessarily cheap!!)

I'm targeting WKV, 81,000 or 148,100. Difference will be cost/staroption. I'd be interested to know any of your experiences with similar purchases if you would care to share here or via PM.

I've had an opportunity for 148,100 at $25,500 WKV, but think I can do better than that.

Also am investigating a listing for 148,100 options asking $23,900 - any suggestions as to where my opening offer should be? Thanks....Noelle

There was a large thread on this recently - where there was a discussion on the price of a 2Bd LO Platinum at WKV. Also, the price may be increasing - or it an just be a lull in the market. SmartChoice weeks have gone quickly. A guess of a price that may get accepted and be okay with ??? $22K
{I have Scottish in me also}

I would consider buying two 1 Bd Premium/Platinum weeks and get 2 x 81K SOs for $25-26K - versus having the small side. ...but that's me/us... for the reasons mentioned above.

Make sure the week(s) get or are already reserved (being Plat).

 

[Denise L]

I would consider buying two 1 Bd Premium/Platinum weeks and get 2 x 81K SOs for $25-26K - versus having the small side. ...but that's me/us... for the reasons mentioned above.

Just keep in mind that you can't combine SOs from resale purchases or add them to a developer purchase. So if you were to buy 2 x 81K SOs, you couldn't book a unit requiring 148,100 SOs, for example, which is usually a 2 bedroom or a lock-off. You'd have to book a one-bedroom and a studio separately, or a one-bedroom and a smaller one-bedroom, depending on the resort.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Just keep in mind that you can't combine SOs from resale purchases or add them to a developer purchase. So if you were to buy 2 x 81K SOs, you couldn't book a unit requiring 148,100 SOs, for example, which is usually a 2 bedroom or a lock-off. You'd have to book a one-bedroom and a studio separately, or a one-bedroom and a smaller one-bedroom, depending on the resort.

Yes - you cannot combine SOs with resale. Conversely, with 148.1K SOs you couldn't get 2 weeks in a 1Bd - you could only get a 1Bd (1 wk) and a studio (1wk). If you need a LO then a person would have to get a 148.1K SO block. If one does not have the need to have the LO studio portion (like us) - then blocks of 81K SOs works out better (IMO).

Other than the relative savings in MFs (at WKORV) for a 2Bd LO vs. a 1Bd - the studio (for some) may be more of a hinderance than a benefit [except for the Deluxe studios - the others do not have a lanai; plus, the LOs are very separate, and are not a good rental value]. With WKV - you have the opportunity to get the large-side of the LO (for 81K SOs) for the same proportional percentage in MFs as the small side.

This ability also exists at WKORV as there are some 1Bd units (deeded) - that can be found for ~$17K , but I would not recommend buying WKORV with the intent to exchange (WKV or VV would be a better value) becuase of the $/SO premium and the much higher MFs.

 

[stevens397]

As usual, TUGGERs are very helpful but I have to say that conversations like this are very curious to me.

Some of these questions have been hinted at, but here's my list:

1. Where do you want to go?
2. How many people do you expect to travel with? Kids? Friends?
3. Do you really want to have someone sleep in a living room or do you feel all are "entitled" to a bedroom on a vacation?
4. How long do you think you'll actually keep this? This is clearly harder to answer than the other questions?

My answers were Scottsdale, 4, yes and forever. That being the case, I knew I wanted 148,100 SO and I've been blessed with trades to the 3BR at St John and a 2BR at Harborside!

More importantly - and not to count anyone else's money - if you long to vacation and you know what you like, it's hard for me to understand the need to break it down into cost per SO. And if you pay a thousand or two more for that resale unit than you wanted, is it really worth looking for two years until you find the price you want? Isn't there every chance you could be the one to get a higher price when you sell? My first timeshare purchase was a major, uninformed mistake. I was told by someone whose opinion I value that I would get $7,000 at most - I got $11,750. I'm afraid that these discussions sometimes lead to paralysis by analysis.

But that's just my style

 

[DavidnRobin]

$/SO has to be a consideration since there is an upper limit to which someone is willing to spend - but that is like comparing apples/oranges between resorts.

However, in evaluating a similar week at a specific resort $/SO is very important - the difference beween 14c/SO and 17c/SO for the same unit when there are 81K-148.1K SOs involved is a major monetary consideration. But, I agree, not the only consideration (e.g. why buy 44K SOs for a great $/SO price when you don't want to go to the resort and they limit your exchange ability). PLUS, MFs have to be considered.

For example - it is almost useless to compare $/SO between WKV and because of the premium that one pays to own WSJ. However, in comparing WKV and VV - $/SO does become more important - especally if the intent is to use only for exchanges.

In looking back at it - I would have to say that for SVO resale - WKV (Platinum) 81K or 148.1K SOs is the best overall value when considering all aspects of resort ownership, SVN exchange, MFs, rent, and resale. However, the personal value of these considerations in making a decision to buy resale SVO - must be accounted for. This goes back to the point as there not being an algorithim for doing this.

Your point is well taken though - but this is an economic reality. Let's say I hold fast to a price that is only a few hundred dollars difference - and lose the deal because of it, and then the price increases - so I lose out overall. But, the converse can also be true. Given both scenerios in regards to TSs - I would set a price I want to pay and stick with it. This worked out for us at WKV, but it could have backfired.

 

[tomandrobin]

More importantly - and not to count anyone else's money - if you long to vacation and you know what you like, it's hard for me to understand the need to break it down into cost per SO. And if you pay a thousand or two more for that resale unit than you wanted, is it really worth looking for two years until you find the price you want?

I agree.....people tend to obsess on this board about how much everything costs. That a certain unit "should" cost "x" amount of dollars and if you paid $2000 more, you got ripped off.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I agree.....people tend to obsess on this board about how much everything costs. That a certain unit "should" cost "x" amount of dollars and if you paid $2000 more, you got ripped off.

Then you should've been okay with paying the extra $2K for that WSJ unit...

I know with holding fast on our WKV - we paid for a couple RT tickets from SFO-PHX - but we could've lost the deal - which now I believe would have cost more.

I think that researching what the best price for a certain week at a certain resort is important - and not getting 'paralysis by analysis' on buying is also, but price vs. value should always be considered - otherwise we would have bought from SVO directly.

Mike Caro says "money not spent is money earned"

 

[Noelle]

Great Discussion - sorry to end it by making my decision :^)

I think you are all really pointing to the same fundamental and that is 'value' of your vacation unit. And value is a very personal judgement based on all the thoughtful considerations each of you hold to be key to your decision.

Cost per SO was a leveling mechanism so I could get to a base comparison and then adjust that base price according to my 'vacation values'.

So:
I've lived in hurricane areas outside of the US - too much risk of truly devastating local economy, real estate and tangible assets - I'll trade into Harborside, the risk of loss outweighs the positives and doesn't warrant the higher purchase prices, closing costs and maintenance fees.

As far as Vistana Villages, again another nice option, however trading into Marriotts near Disney is easy, hurricanes still can devastate but location on US mainland mitigates that. I won't visit Orlando that often and I'd prefer to trade into a Disney Resort if I take the grandchildren. So although less costly in terms of maintenance per SO and some degree of softness in purchase price, I did not think the location would be a big draw for DH and me when we retire. (8-10 years or less)

The lucky winner was ..... me and the resort: Westin Kierland - 148,100 SO. The purchase price was the second lowest $/SO in the 27 units included (at all three resorts HRA, WKV, SVV) and the maintenance fee was reasonable. For those of you who want to know the bottom line, see the recommendation for an offer price above - thanks blujahz - offer tendered, and accepted within 2 hours.

I'd been thinking about this purchase for a long time, however it took less than a week to research, compare and make a deal - there is a lot of good resale inventory out there.

Thank you all, especially blujahz, Denise L, Denise M and vacationtime1 - excellent suggestions, helpful analysis, wonderful debate ... ain't TUG great!!
and so are all of you (3 cheers for each of you)... Noelle:whoopie:

 

[grgs]

The lucky winner was ..... me and the resort: Westin Kierland - 148,100 SO. The purchase price was the second lowest $/SO in the 27 units included (at all three resorts HRA, WKV, SVV) and the maintenance fee was reasonable. For those of you who want to know the bottom line, see the recommendation for an offer price above - thanks blujahz - offer tendered, and accepted within 2 hours.

I'd been thinking about this purchase for a long time, however it took less than a week to research, compare and make a deal - there is a lot of good resale inventory out there.

Thank you all, especially blujahz, Denise L, Denise M and vacationtime1 - excellent suggestions, helpful analysis, wonderful debate ... ain't TUG great!!
and so are all of you (3 cheers for each of you)... Noelle:whoopie:

Congratulations! I hope you get many years of enjoyment from your purchase!

Glorian

 

[DavidnRobin]

Yes - congratulations! You have set the market price.

We will be at Kierland for Spring Training in March, St John in June, and Ka'anapali in December (repeat...) - maybe we will see you around.

 

[Noelle]

Thank you so much for the good wishes Glorian, I am sure we will enjoy WKV.

Robin and David - sounds like you have a wonderful 2007 vacation year planned. I am looking forward to running into you two someday while on vacation. Thanks for your support ... Noelle

 

[Noelle]

Another great value offered WKV

For anyone looking to purchase at WKV, just received notification of a listing for very similar (perhaps better) posting by SmartChoice Timeshare Realty advertised at MyResortNetwork.com :

http://www.myresortnetwork.com/Timeshares-For-Sale/Scottsdale/Arizona/Westin-Kierland-Villas/

 

[DavidnRobin]

For anyone looking to purchase at WKV, just received notification of a listing for very similar (perhaps better) posting by SmartChoice Timeshare Realty advertised at MyResortNetwork.com :

http://www.myresortnetwork.com/Timeshares-For-Sale/Scottsdale/Arizona/Westin-Kierland-Villas/

Likely the same - they advertise all over - I wonder why not TUG?
There is a nice thread on the 'Buying' section re: Judi and SC.

 

[tomandrobin]

Then you should've been okay with paying the extra $2K for that WSJ unit...

I know with holding fast on our WKV - we paid for a couple RT tickets from SFO-PHX - but we could've lost the deal - which now I believe would have cost more.

I think that researching what the best price for a certain week at a certain resort is important - and not getting 'paralysis by analysis' on buying is also, but price vs. value should always be considered - otherwise we would have bought from SVO directly.

Mike Caro says "money not spent is money earned"

Lol...True, if I had really wanted it and could use the unit now. I wanted the unit, but more as a toy, not a necessity. And I do think that if you really want a particular week, at a certain location, the haggling over the absolute best price is not needed, just get a fair price to you.

That said, I prusue other units constantly, but I've been going on the cheap. Not because of trying to be frugal, but more of seeing if I can get it for the low price. I don't need another week, I just like playing the game. If I got it, great, If I didn't it was ok with me. If I was ready to buy the St. John week, I would have paid the extra $2,000. We are actually about four or five years out to being able to fully utilize our timeshares.

 

[tomandrobin]

The lucky winner was ..... me and the resort: Westin Kierland - 148,100 SO. The purchase price was the second lowest $/SO in the 27 units included (at all three resorts HRA, WKV, SVV) and the maintenance fee was reasonable. For those of you who want to know the bottom line, see the recommendation for an offer price above - thanks blujahz - offer tendered, and accepted within 2 hours.

Congrats on your purchase!!!!

Hopefully you will enjoy the resort and being a Starwood member as we do!