Lawrence Welk - HELP! NEWBIE IN TROUBLE.

[KDinPVP]

I can't believe I'm in this fix again (I shouldn't go to these presentations exhausted - but I did), but my wife and I went to the Lawrence Welk in Escondido and were, after a brutal 8 hour session, we were finally talked into buying a timeshare there in there brand new section for about $30k and 300,000 points. It's a two bedroom lockoff - and the lockoff is nicer than most I've seen (full kitchen w/washer and dryer).

We bought, but I want to rescind (paying penalty of 10%)

Why we bought:
1 - We were told it traded really well (a top resort - 2 for 1 with II in many cases) and we could go anywhere with it because of the demand.

2 - We were told it would rent for an average of around $350 a night (and did rent well due to the demand for the property).

3 - The property would essentially give us the ability to trade three weeks to five weeks (if we went through LWR and II) pretty much anywhere in the world.


I want out because:

1 - I think the price was outrageous based on what I've seen on the resell boards.

2 - The property is in Escondido; hot now but who knows in 5 years?

3 - The points expire after 3 years and CAN'T be used for anything outside of the II and RCI books (i.e. - no airfare, no regular hotel, no "extras"... nothing)


Also - while I was in the bathroom, my wife asked the salesman two questions and got answers (that pushed her to buy) that don't make sense to me:

1 -- If there was partial point use available: meaning, we spend only three days in a location, we don't have to use an entire week's worth of points to get it and can "bank" the difference.

2 -- We could reserve a location in Maui (for example) and then rent that out even though our base is in Escondido.


HELP!!!! What have I gotten myself into???? Is Welk as good as the sales people (and the visitors I talked to) say it is? Did I pay too much? Can we really do the things with the property my wife THINKS we can do?

HELP! IF I RESCIND I ONLY HAVE A FEW DAYS LEFT!!!!!

 

[DeniseM]

It is simple - RESCIND TODAY - it's your legal right and I don't believe you should have to pay a penalty, if you rescind within the legal time frame.

I wrote this Rescinding FAQ for a different timeshare system, but besides that, everything in it applies to you.

RESCIND! (And don't go to any more presentations!)

Good luck!

 

[vacationtime1]

You answer your own question -- rescind for all of the reasons you state. Make sure you rescind in the manner provided in the contract (registered mail, fax, FedEx, etc.). You may decide to send the rescission letter in multiple forms, but make sure one of them is done the way specified in the contract.

The 10% "penalty" provision is part of the contract you are rescinding, so there should be no penalty. Your credit card company should protect you on that.

Prepare for a phone call from the salesman. Be brief; be firm.

 

[UWSurfer]

You are going to be told by many here to rescind.

I can't say one way or the other, but 30K for ANY timeshare these days seems pretty high! IF you can afford it, and have ways to use it, enjoy it. But know you are paying a pretty high premium.

Ok, I'll say it too, rescind.

I believe there was a discussion in another thread a month or two back about the legality of a 10% recision penalty. I don't know if it's illegal, but I recall someone in the other thread being able to rescind without that penalty kicking in.

Rescind...and buy resale. That's the theme on TUG and with very few exceptions, it's for a very good reason. $aving$

 

[lll1929]

I would agree, Rescind. The Welks properties are pretty easy to trade into. Even the new ones with the lockoffs.

 

[KDinPVP]

Penalty? "Partial Points for Partial Days"... is that my "OUT"?

My wife really loved the place - but we're going to Hawaii in November. More importantly, we RARELY get a week (let alone 5) when we can vacation as a family.

I'd like to know more about being able to get out of the 10% penalty.

My wife would love to stay there (it IS beautiful and very family oriented, but I just think if we're going to buy, HAWAII is where I WANT to make that kind of commitment because of the rental/resale opportunity).

 

[DeniseM]

By law, you have the legal right to rescind with no penalty within a certain number of days. This is determined by local law and the developer can't change that. Please read the FAQ I posted in my first post and then rescind today.

I believe the penalty only applies if you are outside the rescission period.

Also, I would not buy in Hawaii unless I wanted to go to Hawaii at least every other year. Right now travel to Hawaii is really down because of the cost of airfare and the depressed economy. I would not buy a Hawaii timeshare with the idea of renting it out for a profit. In this economy, I think that's risky - right now there is a glut of Hawaii timeshare rentals because owner's aren't using them. If you want a Hawaii timeshare, but don't want to go every year, then buy an every other year deed and buy resale!

 

[KDinPVP]

Denise - They're digging their heels in about the deposite stating it's California law that they can keep it. Should I get a lawyer?

 

[Bill4728]

Also - while I was in the bathroom, my wife asked the salesman two questions and got answers (that pushed her to buy) that don't make sense to me:

1 -- If there was partial point use available: meaning, we spend only three days in a location, we don't have to use an entire week's worth of points to get it and can "bank" the difference.

There are mant point based TS systems which will allow you to do this and you'll pay 1/2 to 1/5 the price you paid, saving at minimum $15,000.

2 -- We could reserve a location in Maui (for example) and then rent that out even though our base is in Escondido.

This is an outright lie!! You can't trade for another location and then rent it out. You'll get in big trouble doing this. see this thread for someone trying to rent out their TS exchange.

On the other hand, if you belong to a TS system which has many different resort locations ( like worldmark, hilton, Westin ect) you can make reservations for one of the other great resorts within that system and then rent that week. BUT, You can't rent out a week gotten from the exchange companies.

 

[UWSurfer]

For purposes of discussion only, lets say Welk is correct and they can keep the $3K (which I don't belive).

Is it worth saving the $3k by spending $27K more for something worth half as much at best??

Cut your loss, rescind and then if they don't refund the $3K explore your options. If you made your deposit with a credit card, I would challenge the charge as soon as you send in your recission letter.

 

[Bill4728]

Denise - They're digging their heels in about the deposite stating it's California law that they can keep it. Should I get a lawyer?

First- Rescind now and don't worry about the penalty.
If you don't rescind in time the CA law will not be in effect and can not protect you. So RESCIND NOW!!!
As UWsurfer said "Is it worth saving the $3k by spending $27K more for something worth half as much at best??"


Second, rather than a lawyer, dispute the charge with your credit card company. And show the CC company that the 10% penatly is not allowed by law. Also someone in the CA state government should be able to help you with this consummer rip-off. Use a lawyer as your final option.

 

[KDinPVP]

Thanks, Bill. I called the Quality Assurance Office at Welk and she insists she "does this all the time". She'll reserve a week, rent it out to friends and/or family, and even register the week in their name so THEY get the confirmation.

How can I confirm this? Call the Starwood group and tell them I'm from Welk?

 

[DeniseM]

How can I confirm this? Call the Starwood group and tell them I'm from Welk?

I can absolutely guarantee you that Welk cannot reserve a week for you at a Starwood resort. I own 2 Starwood timeshares and the only way a non-Starwood TS owner can exchange for a Starwood resort would be through an exchange company. And you cannot rent exchanges through II!

Honestly - you shouldn't even be discussing this with Welk. It is not in their best interest to help you rescind.

Find the paperwork in your purchase papers and follow the instructions exactly and rescind while you still can. Expecting Welk to help you is just a waste of time.

 

[Bill4728]

Thanks, Bill. I called the Quality Assurance Office at Welk and she insists she "does this all the time". She'll reserve a week, rent it out to friends and/or family, and even register the week in their name so THEY get the confirmation.

How can I confirm this? Call the Starwood group and tell them I'm from Welk?

Getting an exchange, then giving it to your family or friends is not RENTING OUT a TS. It is giving it to a family member or friend. This is prefectly OK. If they then do something equally nice for you, GREAT.

But, your not going to ask a family member or friend to pay you the $1500 or more that you'd get if you rented out that week you just exchanged for in Hawaii. As I said and you'll hear from everone here " you can't rent out exchanges."

As Denise said, Welks only thought about you is to find a way to get you to not rescind until after the 5 day rescission period has passed. At that time, you've bought that $30,000 TS and you're stuck.

 

[DeniseM]

I would not call Welk again, either - send in the written rescission and wait for them to contact you. I bet you will hear a whole different story then, because there is nothing they can do about a legally executed rescission.

Right now they are just trying to stall you until it's too late - and it seems to be working for them so far!

 

[Bill4728]

I've added several comments in red to your OP.

I can't believe I'm in this fix again (I shouldn't go to these presentations exhausted - but I did), but my wife and I went to the Lawrence Welk in Escondido and were, after a brutal 8 hour session, we were finally talked into buying a timeshare there in there brand new section for about $30k and 300,000 points.
How in your right mind would believe anything that a salemen said to after after they had held you hostage for 8 hours??

We bought, but I want to rescind (paying penalty of 10%)

Why we bought:
1 - We were told it traded really well (a top resort - 2 for 1 with II in many cases) and we could go anywhere with it because of the demand.
It is a very nice resort, but it isn't a top resort. The westin and Marriotts resorts in Hawaii are the "top resorts". In SoCal, it's the Four Season Not the Welk resorts. IMHO, The welk resorts are nice but not "TOP"


2 - We were told it would rent for an average of around $350 a night (and did rent well due to the demand for the property).
Hotel companies can and do rent out these kind of rooms for $350/night or $2400/week but people like you and I can't rent our TS for even half that. Because renters will not treat an owner with the same amount of respect as the hotel/resort themselves.

3 - The property would essentially give us the ability to trade three weeks to five weeks (if we went through LWR and II) pretty much anywhere in the world. There are many TS, with lockoffs, which allow you to lock-off and trade for muliple weeks. This doesn't make LWR anymore valuable.


I want out because:

1 - I think the price was outrageous based on what I've seen on the resell boards. It still outrageous

2 - The property is in Escondido; hot now but who knows in 5 years?The SoCal area will still be great in the years ahead but who knows if your resort will still be "hot"

3 - The points expire after 3 years and CAN'T be used for anything outside of the II and RCI books (i.e. - no airfare, no regular hotel, no "extras"... nothing) Most people find that the bonus points offered at the many different TS sales are worth between $500 - $1000. No where near the extra $15,000 - $20,000 you paid for the resort.



HELP!!!! What have I gotten myself into???? Is Welk as good as the sales people (and the visitors I talked to) say it is? NO it isn't Did I pay too much? $15,000 - $20,000 too much Can we really do the things with the property my wife THINKS we can do?No you can't

HELP! IF I RESCIND I ONLY HAVE A FEW DAYS LEFT!!!!!

Why are you still on line with us? After reading this post IMHO, I'd RESCIND NOW!!

 

[CatLovers]

Okay KDinPVP, I'm going to echo what you've already heard Denise say. WHY ARE YOU CALLING WELK???? Do you really think they are going to give you a single piece of information (truthful or otherwise) that will cause you to rescind your purchase???? They would be stupid to, and of all the adjectives you may hear to describe a timeshare salesperson, "stupid" is not usually one.

RESCIND! RESCIND! RESCIND! Don't call Welk, just send the the required paperwork according to your contract and in the method specified. Don't engage in any discussion when they call you (they will once they receive the paperwork to try and talk you out of it). Just simply state (over and over again if you have to) that you have chosen to exercise your legal right to rescind. They will give you all kinds of reasons (most of them stretching the truth, and in some cases downright false) to change your mind. DON'T.

If you wife is really hung up on this resort, you will be able to get what you want on the resale market for thousands of dollars less. But you only have this very limited window in which to rescind. You lose this window, and it's NEVER coming back.

With respect to that 10% penalty, you will be able to get that reversed (even if they charge it in the first place). You may need to supply your credit card company with a copy of your recission letter, the section of the contract that outlines your right to rescind, and perhaps some appropriate information about California law. Don't worry about that now - get out of the contract first!

 

[catwgirl]

The people on these boards know what they are talking about. The Welk people will tell you anything to keep you from rescinding. Do not have anymore communication with the Welk people. Quit looking for reasons to keep it, and rescind NOW. Fax your rescission and also send to them certified mail, with receipt. Get off these boards and do it!! You will not have regrets if you rescind, but will have $30K worth of regret if you keep it.

 

[Jim C]

I don't believe this!! You have been given excellent advice, several times over and you're questioning it? I hate to say it, but if you don't heed the advice you asked for, you'll regret it for a long time.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I am with Jim. I cannot believe you aren't rushing to rescind.

As for the renting of exchanges, you cannot do it without losing your exchange company membership, which would be really bad because then what worth will that $30K timeshare have going for it? No exchanges would reduce the value of the ownership to staying only there.

Salespeople are really getting hard up for sales, to keep someone for 8 hours. They wore you down, and you signed on the dotted line. This is actually a case of duress.

You won't lose a dime of your money. They cannot keep your deposit. Don't talk to them anymore. Make sure you send the rescission to the address on the contract return receipt from the post office.

 

[rickandcindy23]

My wife really loved the place - but we're going to Hawaii in November. More importantly, we RARELY get a week (let alone 5) when we can vacation as a family.

I'd like to know more about being able to get out of the 10% penalty.

My wife would love to stay there (it IS beautiful and very family oriented, but I just think if we're going to buy, HAWAII is where I WANT to make that kind of commitment because of the rental/resale opportunity).

The resort is an easy trade via II and RCI. You can stay there for much less than the maintenance fees. Buy resale, buy a good trader, stick around on TUG, and save thousands of $$$$$.

 

[Twinkstarr]

The resort is an easy trade via II and RCI. You can stay there for much less than the maintenance fees. Buy resale, buy a good trader, stick around on TUG, and save thousands of $$$$$.

Cindy is right, I saw a couple of 2br's for our Easter break(4/4-4/11) just sitting there a month or so ago.

I'm kind of new to this, but I also see a lot of the units on II.

 

[KDinPVP]

Thanks, all. I really should have come here first, but I never dreamed it was going to be as intense as it turned out to be.

Jim C, Please, don't think that I'm NOT appreciating your advice - I'm just confirming that I have a proper understanding before I execute. (In other words, I've already made 1 mistake - I don't want to make any more or get something wrong and mess up my options: Ready AIM fire... rather than Ready FIRE aim... I hope you understand.) I appreciate what everyone is saying and them taking the time to help me and my family out.

I'm going to talk to my wife tonight about rescinding this - we have until Friday, I believe (I'll check the paperwork when I get home). If she has questions, I'll just show her the responses here. She's a very smart, and reasonable woman, I'm sure she'll appreciate what you experienced buyers/owners have to say and take it into account.

BTW - If anyone has any of the specific language on the rules in California about defeating the terms of the contract that commit us to the 10% deposit, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to show them (Welk and the CC company) that NOW and get my ENTIRE deposit back ASAP (or at least, get the CC company rolling on it right away!).

Again - thanks. We should have come here first.

 

[timeos2]

Here is the EXACT language that applies.

BTW - If anyone has any of the specific language on the rules in California about defeating the terms of the contract that commit us to the 10% deposit, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to show them (Welk and the CC company) that NOW and get my ENTIRE deposit back ASAP (or at least, get the CC company rolling on it right away!).

Again - thanks. We should have come here first.

From California Timeshare Act of 2004 - Article 2. Registration, Sale Requirements, and Fees:

YOU MAY CANCEL THIS CONTRACT WITHOUT ANY PENALTY OR OBLIGATION
WITHIN SEVEN CALENDAR DAYS OF RECEIPT OF THE PUBLIC REPORT OR AFTER THE DATE YOU SIGN THIS CONTRACT, WHICHEVER DATE IS LATER. IF YOU DECIDE TO CANCEL THIS CONTRACT, YOU MUST NOTIFY THE ASSOCIATION (OR MANAGING ENTITY) IN WRITING OF YOUR INTENT TO CANCEL. YOUR NOTICE OF CANCELLATION SHALL BE EFFECTIVE UPON THE DATE SENT AND SHALL BE SENT TO (NAME OF ASSOCIATION OR MANAGING ENTITY) AT (ADDRESS OF ASSOCIATION OR MANAGING ENTITY). YOUR NOTICE OF CANCELLATION MAY ALSO BE SENT BY FACSIMILE TO (FACSIMILE NUMBER OF THE ASSOCIATION OR MANAGING ENTITY) OR BY AND-DELIVERY. ANY ATTEMPT TO OBTAIN A WAIVER OF YOUR CANCELLATION RIGHT IS VOID AND OF NO EFFECT.

Caps are in the actual act. You have a 100% right to a 100% rescind - you owe nothing. Don't wait - do it tomorrow!

 

[Liz Wolf-Spada]

We also got sucked into buying into points, we already owned a week, so it was a lot, but not as much as you were quoted. They didn't say anything about the points expiring and I don't think they do, as that is now basically what you own, 300,000 points per year. It does give us some additional flexibility, but had my dog not gotten horribly sick and died the same week, I think I would have rescinded. As people say, it's such a big resort, it isn't hard to trade into.
Liz