Latest info from encore presentation at Westin

[chrono88]

We are here on an encore package and just attended the presentation.

Sheraton flex will convert 32:1 to Marriott DC points. Westin flex will convert 28:1. You have to elect to convert the flex options into Marriott DC points the year prior to use year, similar to how deeded Marriott weeks must elect DC conversion the year prior to use year. Deadline to do so will depend on status.

Deeded weeks within the Sheraton/Westin system will be assigned points based on the demand/desirability of the weeks. You will also have to elect DC conversion the year prior to use year. The specific DC values for all the different units/weeks at the various resorts have not been finalized.

Only developer purchases or retro weeks would be able to elect for DC conversion, supposedly. Don't know if they will offer some program to pay a fee to enroll resale weeks. Resale weeks usage and mandatory staroptions usage will remain the same, supposedly, as if those weeks aren't elected for DC conversion.

If you don't elect for DC conversion, then usage remains the same as we are used to. If you elect for DC conversion, then you play by the DC rules, including benefit levels, booking windows, etc.

They offered to retro 1 week for $10k purchase of Sheraton or Westin flex, $15k for 2 weeks, $20k for 3 weeks, $25k for 4 weeks, etc. Incentives of one-time use staroptions or bonvoy points based on purchase.

3* elites would get mvc executive level, 4* elites presidential, and 5* elites chairman's.

Flex options will stop being sold June 2022, after which only DC points will be sold.

DC points converted from flex or deeded weeks will be able to be mixed with DC points already in the MVC system, supposedly, to make bookings.

We decided to enroll because it's less expensive, based on our calculations, to enroll our high point Sheraton resale weeks by buying the minimum flex package vs enrolling marriott resale weeks by buying the most minimum DC points package, at least to enroll very few weeks. The mf for either the Westin or Sheraton flex is also slightly lower, it seems, than for DC for the same number of DC points.

The risk in my view is the MVC could still decide to charge a fee to allow developer or retro Vistana buyers to be able to elect DC points, but the sales reps (whom we've met with a few times over the years) said that this wouldn't be the case... I will believe it come some time in 2022, which is when the DC points election system will be put into place.

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[CPNY]

Could be true, could be a bunch of lies. All I know for certain is that Christmas is on 12/25, so Happy Christmas.

 

[jabberwocky]

I’ll believe it when I see the actual program rolled out. While some of this is plausible, I don’t see the value in converting to DC points. The value I get with my SO reservations is a much better value. At a 28:1 ratio, my 67,100 WFlex would yield 2400 DC points. That isn’t enough to book an equivalent unit at MOC even at the lowest demand weeks, but it would give me a studio week at WKORV in peak season.

 

[dioxide45]

We decided to enroll because it's less expensive, based on our calculations, to enroll our high point Sheraton resale weeks by buying the minimum flex package vs enrolling marriott resale weeks by buying the most minimum DC points package, at least to enroll very few weeks. The mf for either the Westin or Sheraton flex is also slightly lower, it seems, than for DC for the same number of DC points.

Just so you know. You didn't enroll anything. There is no program to enroll in at this time. Unless you have everything in writing in the contract, nothing is promised and is merely speculation at this point. Do yourself a favor and rescind and wait until something is definitive and announced. Vistana/Marriott will have all kinds of "specials" to try to get people to buy into whatever they dream up. You won't lose out on much by waiting.

 

[mjm1]

We are here on an encore package and just attended the presentation.

Sheraton flex will convert 32:1 to Marriott DC points. Westin flex will convert 28:1. You have to elect to convert the flex options into Marriott DC points the year prior to use year, similar to how deeded Marriott weeks must elect DC conversion the year prior to use year. Deadline to do so will depend on status.

Deeded weeks within the Sheraton/Westin system will be assigned points based on the demand/desirability of the weeks. You will also have to elect DC conversion the year prior to use year. The specific DC values for all the different units/weeks at the various resorts have not been finalized.

Only developer purchases or retro weeks would be able to elect for DC conversion, supposedly. Don't know if they will offer some program to pay a fee to enroll resale weeks. Resale weeks usage and mandatory staroptions usage will remain the same, supposedly, as if those weeks aren't elected for DC conversion.

If you don't elect for DC conversion, then usage remains the same as we are used to. If you elect for DC conversion, then you play by the DC rules, including benefit levels, booking windows, etc.

They offered to retro 1 week for $10k purchase of Sheraton or Westin flex, $15k for 2 weeks, $20k for 3 weeks, $25k for 4 weeks, etc. Incentives of one-time use staroptions or bonvoy points based on purchase.

3* elites would get mvc executive level, 4* elites presidential, and 5* elites chairman's.

Flex options will stop being sold June 2022, after which only DC points will be sold.

DC points converted from flex or deeded weeks will be able to be mixed with DC points already in the MVC system, supposedly, to make bookings.

We decided to enroll because it's less expensive, based on our calculations, to enroll our high point Sheraton resale weeks by buying the minimum flex package vs enrolling marriott resale weeks by buying the most minimum DC points package, at least to enroll very few weeks. The mf for either the Westin or Sheraton flex is also slightly lower, it seems, than for DC for the same number of DC points.

The risk in my view is the MVC could still decide to charge a fee to allow developer or retro Vistana buyers to be able to elect DC points, but the sales reps (whom we've met with a few times over the years) said that this wouldn't be the case... I will believe it come some time in 2022, which is when the DC points election system will be put into place.

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Just so you know. You didn't enroll anything. There is no program to enroll in at this time. Unless you have everything in writing in the contract, nothing is promised and is merely speculation at this point. Do yourself a favor and rescind and wait until something is definitive and announced. Vistana/Marriott will have all kinds of "specials" to try to get people to buy into whatever they dream up. You won't lose out on much by waiting.

It also seems very odd that Westin Flex would convert at a lower ratio than Sheraton Flex...

I agree with Dioxide45. Nothing is for sure until they roll out the program and details are available in writing.

Regarding my last point, we attended a presentation at Sheraton Desert Oasis last week and the rep said that only Westin Flex and perhaps some of the Sheraton resorts in Florida would be allowed to participate in the combined program. Also, no “enrollment” fee would be charged. Of course she didn’t have anything in writing when I asked to see it.

Bottom line is they will say whatever they think will help them make a sale. Don’t bite until they can provide details in writing and you can make a more informed decision.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[VacationForever]

Actually 32:1, means Sheraton Flex gets fewer DC points, compared to 28:1 for Westin Flex (divide by larger number gives lower number).

 

[Ken555]

Actually 32:1, means Sheraton Flex gets fewer DC points, compared to 28:1 for Westin Flex (divide by larger number gives lower number).

Yup. Math hurts.

As for the rest…sorry, but I agree with a few here…sounds like the OP rationalized the purchase. I’d suggest rescinding as well, of course. I don’t believe for a moment they won’t want your money next year after the official plan is released.


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[Mowogo]

I’ll believe it when I see the actual program rolled out. While some of this is plausible, I don’t see the value in converting to DC points. The value I get with my SO reservations is a much better value. At a 28:1 ratio, my 67,100 WFlex would yield 2400 DC points. That isn’t enough to book an equivalent unit at MOC even at the lowest demand weeks, but it would give me a studio week at WKORV in peak season.

DC just has a different sweet spot for maximizing ownership than VSN. Some would say that Vistana undervalued their peak properties, while DC overvalues theirs. And to a certain extent the penalized valuation serves as the sales pattern as VSN has less inventory as more owners are trading through DC. Now they can say you need to upgrade if you want to spend the same amount of time at the wider pool of resorts.

 

[dioxide45]

Our rep at our Marriott presentation today indicated that Vistana weeks would be allotted a DC point value in the same way as Marriott weeks are. No 32:1 ratio from the StarOption value of the week. Of course I needed to buy in to be able to take advantage of the combined program... That doesn't even exist yet.

 

[jabberwocky]

DC just has a different sweet spot for maximizing ownership than VSN. Some would say that Vistana undervalued their peak properties, while DC overvalues theirs. And to a certain extent the penalized valuation serves as the sales pattern as VSN has less inventory as more owners are trading through DC. Now they can say you need to upgrade if you want to spend the same amount of time at the wider pool of resorts.

I agree with you on the undervaluation/overvaluation. The question is why as a consumer would I want to sell low and buy high? I’ve looked at buying MVC, but I just don’t understand the DC value proposition.

 

[VacationForever]

I agree with you on the undervaluation/overvaluation. The question is why as a consumer would I want to sell low and buy high? I’ve looked at buying MVC, but I just don’t understand the DC value proposition.

Because of undervaluation/overvaluation, owners who can travel during off season or can make use of lower point requirements of Sun-Thu can get more out of their points. For instance, I wouldn't use points to book an ocean view Hawaii week which requires alot of points all year around. I utilize II to book high point requirements weeks as well as 2BR while trading in a studio or a 1BR. I have struggled to use both my trust and enrolled week points. II provides value while points system provides flexibility and choice.

 

[Mowogo]

I agree with you on the undervaluation/overvaluation. The question is why as a consumer would I want to sell low and buy high? I’ve looked at buying MVC, but I just don’t understand the DC value proposition.

The selling point of DC is the large number of resorts and the value proposition is the entire system works like Flex, and because it has been in place for a longer period there is much more inventory available including at prime resorts. And the thing to remember is that whatever is implemented, it serves to encourage sales, so they can sell owners that if they want to get their points to trade in the new program like they used to in the old program is just an upgrade away.

 

[chrono88]

Should have said we decided to "retro" instead of "enroll" our resale weeks with the minimum flex purchase (sorry for any confusion with the verb usage). We've been looking for quite some time to retro our resale platinum voluntary weeks to gain more flexibility anyway. The way we saw it, MVC requires a 3000 DC point purchase to enroll one resale week (at least this was the case at the beginning of the year), and we didn't want to wait and see if Marriott decides to raise the dollar threshold to retro/enroll our existing units. Also got to apply the cost of our encore package to the purchase. We get more staroptions and flexibility that way now, at the very least. The flexibility to potentially use the MVC DC points system in the future would be a nice bonus. Our purchase made sense for us, and we had been evaluating this path for quite some time. But thanks for the advice. I do appreciate the input from the tug community.

I did see, by the way, the conversion ratio from Sheraton and Westin flex to DC in writing. At the same time, I also agree that it's generally wise to wait until everything is not only in writing but distributed publicly and widely. So I don't mind the distrust/skepticism expressed. Anyway, I tried to convey the info that was not in writing by using the term "supposedly" in my first post. Hope that clarifies things.

Happy holidays!

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[chrono88]

Our rep at our Marriott presentation today indicated that Vistana weeks would be allotted a DC point value in the same way as Marriott weeks are. No 32:1 ratio from the StarOption value of the week. Of course I needed to buy in to be able to take advantage of the combined program... That doesn't even exist yet.

Our rep said the same thing. The 32:1 ratio we saw is just the conversion from Sheraton flex to DC points... Not the other way around.

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[rcv82]

Just for a contrary opinion, retro-ing a voluntary resale can make a lot of sense (especially for a high StarOption contract) regardless of what happens in the cross-over to DC points. It is likely still a fraction of buying it all from the developer. I’ve done it a couple times and I’m glad I did.


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[Eric B]

I did see, by the way, the conversion ratio from Sheraton and Westin flex to DC in writing.

Just out of curiosity, what document did you see it in writing in and did they give you a copy? Was it something that included all of the details of the new program or just talking points for sales on what they think might be in it?

 

[Mowogo]

Just for a contrary opinion, retro-ing a voluntary resale can make a lot of sense (especially for a high StarOption contract) regardless of what happens in the cross-over to DC points. It is likely still a fraction of buying it all from the developer. I’ve done it a couple times and I’m glad I did.


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Retro-ing a voluntary resale at a reasonable price can be a great move. I'd say a gamble on being a qualified owner has a better chance of retaining benefits longer term than Mandatory (They can't kill VSN, but they can starve it of inventory as more units exchange through the new program and voluntary ownerships leave.)

 

[cubigbird]

Our rep said the same thing. The 32:1 ratio we saw is just the conversion from Sheraton flex to DC points... Not the other way around.

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Do we know anything about how Aventuras will play / convert? I’ve heard everything from Mexico ownerships - Lagunamar weeks & Aventuras won’t, to the same 32:1. Curious….

 

[DavidnRobin]

How can you tell if a Timeshare Salesperson is lying?
Their lips are moving.

Rescind - don’t fall for the BS.


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[dioxide45]

Do we know anything about how Aventuras will play / convert? I’ve heard everything from Mexico ownerships - Lagunamar weeks & Aventuras won’t, to the same 32:1. Curious….

I would think that Aventuras would convert like Westin Flex. Lagunamar will probably be different and not be ratio based, but based on unit size and season.

 

[jabberwocky]

Just for a contrary opinion, retro-ing a voluntary resale can make a lot of sense (especially for a high StarOption contract) regardless of what happens in the cross-over to DC points. It is likely still a fraction of buying it all from the developer. I’ve done it a couple times and I’m glad I did.


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I still don't regret doing a retro on our SDO 2BR Plat. It's been well worth it so far. While we bought it to use as a homeweek originally, the added flexibility of being able to use SO (and bank them during covid rather than deal with II) has been a huge benefit for us.

 

[jabberwocky]

Because of undervaluation/overvaluation, owners who can travel during off season or can make use of lower point requirements of Sun-Thu can get more out of their points. For instance, I wouldn't use points to book an ocean view Hawaii week which requires alot of points all year around. I utilize II to book high point requirements weeks as well as 2BR while trading in a studio or a 1BR. I have struggled to use both my trust and enrolled week points. II provides value while points system provides flexibility and choice.

I can see this working if you have the flexibility in your schedule. For a person like me who usually takes two family vacations per year and is locked into the school calendar, being able to obtain reservations at peak times means SO are a much better deal than DC. We also pretty much have to fly to whatever destination, so short 3-4 day excursions aren't in the cards. If I go anywhere with the family, it's going to be 7-10 days at least since 6 plane tickets adds up. I've never traded through II (I have purchased getaways) as I prefer having more control over my reservation.

 

[VacationForever]

I can see this working if you have the flexibility in your schedule. For a person like me who usually takes two family vacations per year and is locked into the school calendar, being able to obtain reservations at peak times means SO are a much better deal than DC. We also pretty much have to fly to whatever destination, so short 3-4 day excursions aren't in the cards. If I go anywhere with the family, it's going to be 7-10 days at least since 6 plane tickets adds up. I've never traded through II (I have purchased getaways) as I prefer having more control over my reservation.

We don't do 3 to 4 days vacation but book 10 to 12 daya vacations, utilizing 2 Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays to 1 day on Friday and Saturday.

 

[SGould]

I just had a presentation and they told us they don’t know enough about the merger to share any information.

 

[tamu_bu]

I just had a presentation and they told us they don’t know enough about the merger to share any information.

A stunning admission of the truth from sales!