Ko Olina Tower 4---ever????

[snackyx]

Just returned from a week at Ko Olina, took my Marriott owner update and, of course, asked the rep about the long proposed Tower 4. The answer: absolutely! Construction should begin later this summer, they would like to have open by Christmas 2015. About 14 months ago I was at Ko Olina, had my owner's update meeting (this is January 2013) and asked the same question then. The answer: absolutely! Construction should begin later in 2013. I told my wife as we left the meeting, just wait until we are here next year (2014) and NOTHING will have been started.

Does anyone know if this tower is actually on the books to be built? The answers from the Marriott reps seem to be the "We have it build it--we need the points!"

 

[BocaBoy]

I think it is definitely in line to be built, but I have no idea on the timing. The last half of the third tower was only opened in the last year or so.

 

[bastroum]

They will only build it if they need the weeks. IMHO it never will be built.

 

[larryallen]

Ko Olina is #1 with Japanese tourists and thus I think they will drive the place to be built. Seriously.

Wasn't there just a thread about this recently or maybe I read something when I was over there last month!? I think it will be built. Ground breaking by 2016 is my guess.

 

[BocaBoy]

I would bet a lot of money that it will be built within the next few years.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corporation (VAC) already owns the land.

Although construction costs are higher on Oahu than in places such as Central Florida, the point chart for Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club yields far more points per villa.

Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club continues to be a high-demand location for U.S. and Asian owners, so having more inventory there would help MVCI satisfy that proven demand.

With that being said, I don't think construction will begin until more Trust inventory is needed to satisfy the requirement that Trust points are backed up by corresponding physical inventory. Around 18 months before the inventory is needed, we're likely to see some activity at the building 4 site at Ko Olina.

As long as VAC can rely on remaining unsold inventory and inventory acquired through ROFR, there's no need to build. Presumably, however, that won't be enough in the long run.

Whether groundbreaking is this year or many years in the future remains to be seen.

 

[dioxide45]

I think we will likely see some activity shortly after they open up tower three at Grand Chateau. Points from Grand Chateau will feed the selling machine for a while. There is also rumblings that Crystal Shores is starting construction. So that may come in to play.

As Werner Weiss indicated, they will start construction when they deem they will need inventory to sell. I don't think however that ROFR and buybacks will even come close to fulfilling that need.

 

[BocaBoy]

I think we will likely see some activity shortly after they open up tower three at Grand Chateau. Points from Grand Chateau will feed the selling machine for a while. There is also rumblings that Crystal Shores is starting construction. So that may come in to play.

As Werner Weiss indicated, they will start construction when they deem they will need inventory to sell. I don't think however that ROFR and buybacks will even come close to fulfilling that need.

I agree with this viewpoint.

 

[gblotter]

We are at Ko Olina this week.

I inquired from two different employees about when construction on the new tower will begin.

The front desk agent said that the groundbreaking has been delayed until late 2017 at the earliest. He did not know the reason for the delay.

The sales presentation salesman said that construction would begin later this year and be complete by 2017. But his lips were moving, so ...

Hmm ... which one should I believe?

Apparently the new tower will be oriented parallel to the beach so that half the units are 'Ocean Front' and half the units are 'Harbor View'. This will be different from the three existing towers that are positioned at an angle to the beach in order to provide 'Ocean View' but not 'Ocean Front' units.

This link shows to position of the new tower between Lagoon 3 and Lagoon 4.

http://www.koolina.com/portals/1/files/koolinaresort_propertymap.pdf

An employee parking lot currently occupies the parcel of land.

 

[LisaH]

There is a large parcel of vacant land between Lagoon 1 and 2. Do you know who owns that piece of land and if there is a plan to build?

 

[Werner Weiss]

There is a large parcel of vacant land between Lagoon 1 and 2. Do you know who owns that piece of land and if there is a plan to build?

In 1998, developer Jeff Stone's company, The Resort Group, acquired the Ko Olina Resort. At the time, the Ihilani was the only waterfront resort there. Stone brought in Marriott Vacation Club, the Beach Villas, and Disney.

The former JW Marriott Ihilani is now being improved and expanded by The Resort Group to become a Four Seasons resort.

There are large parcels on either side of the Beach Villas at Ko Olina (the condos at Lagoon 2). Each of these could presumably hold a large resort or could be sliced into two parcels.

There's also a large parcel facing the Ko Olina Marina, beyond Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club. It's s short walk to Lagoon 4, so it could be used as a resort site too.

Over the years, there have been plans announced that never happened. The most interesting was a large aquarium (more like Discovery Cove in Orlando than a traditional big city aquarium), which was controversial because it would have received a large taxpayer subsidy.

There are currently no active announced plans for the undeveloped waterfront parcels of the Ko Olina Resort.

Throughout the four main tourist islands of the state of Hawaii, there really aren't any other beachfront parcels that are undeveloped and suitable/zoned for development. So my guess is that there will be at least one big announcement in the next 24 months.

At some point Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club will be flanked on both sides by other developments.

 

[LisaH]

Thank you Werner! This is very helpful. Ko Olina is already quite crowded now that Aulani has opened. Can't imagine how crowded it will be once the Four Seasons opens and other parcels get developed...

 

[Werner Weiss]

Thank you Werner! This is very helpful. Ko Olina is already quite crowded now that Aulani has opened. Can't imagine how crowded it will be once the Four Seasons opens and other parcels get developed...

Herbert Horita, the original developer of Ko Olina who was responsible for building the four manmade lagoons, envisioned Ko Olina as a second Waikiki. Now that would have been crowded!

When Jeff Stone took over the stalled development in 1998, he scaled back the density. Future waterfront projects at Ko Olina are likely to have a similar density to Aulani and Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club, with medium-height towers (around 15 stores) rising from landscaped grounds.

When the parcels on either side of Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club are eventually developed, there will be more people using the lagoons. But it's likely there will also be more options for dining, shopping, and entertainment — within the new resorts and in new shopping centers that are likely to be built to serve the increased population of guests.

 

[rpw]

I'll take that bet

I would bet a lot of money that it will be built within the next few years.

Marriott created the DC program so that they wouldn't have to build anything anymore building buildings is expensive it's a significant investment why bother now they can sell other peoples stuff including inventory from other Marriott time shares that people are willing to sell them. That IS the new business model

 

[pharmgirl]

Thank you Werner! This is very helpful. Ko Olina is already quite crowded now that Aulani has opened. Can't imagine how crowded it will be once the Four Seasons opens and other parcels get developed...

The entire resort is very spacious, not nearly as crowded as Kaanapali Beach on Maui and never will be as crowded. Buildings are set back from the walkways and lagoons unlike kaanapali where they are right next to walkways.
We own both KoOlina and Westin Maui but our favorite remains KoOlina. Both units are lovely but we do like the openness of KoOlina

 

[Werner Weiss]

Marriott created the DC program so that they wouldn't have to build anything anymore building buildings is expensive it's a significant investment why bother now they can sell other peoples stuff including inventory from other Marriott time shares that people are willing to sell them. That IS the new business model

Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) will still build (or convert buildings). The points must be backed up by actual, physical inventory in the Trust.

Yes, to some degree, VAC can gain Trust inventory by exercising ROFR.

VAC recently announced new properties coming to San Diego (conversion of an all-suite hotel), the Big Island (conversion of part of an existing resort), and South Beach (current construction project that apparently includes historical structures). These three locations will give VAC lots of new inventory, but also three new sales galleries, which should accelerate sales.

The three new properties could delay the 4th tower at Ko Olina.

However, I expect the 4th tower at Ko Olina to be built eventually. As I noted earlier in this thread, VAC already owns the land. VAC needs to strengthen its portfolio (the three new properties will help) and needs to make sure they have inventory at high-demand locations to keep owners happy so they'll buy more points (a 4th tower at Ko Olina will help).

 

[SueDonJ]

Marriott created the DC program so that they wouldn't have to build anything anymore building buildings is expensive it's a significant investment why bother now they can sell other peoples stuff including inventory from other Marriott time shares that people are willing to sell them. That IS the new business model

You're right, they're able to and have easily re-acquired some inventory to feed the DC Trust. But the slowdown in new builds/build-outs is as much related to the economic downturn prior to the DC inception as it is the DC inception itself. Like others have said here, MVW is exploring options and has recently announced new properties. They've also since the DC announced/completed build-outs that were temporarily halted at Crystal Shores (2017), Grand Chateau (2014), Oceana Palms (2013), etc. I think Ko 'Olina's build-out is more likely to happen than not.

One factor that comes into play with build-outs is the existing permits for the parcels they do own - the permits may have end dates or limited renewals which force MVW to prioritize their holdings. Another is that the MVW model differs from the model they followed when the timeshares came under the MI umbrella, in that MI self-funded some projects while MVW is using outside investors. But they're not as stagnant as you suggest.

 

[fluke]

When I was in Ko Olina this past January the manager (BQ) stated that the 4th tower would begin construction in 2017 with an occupancy date of in 2019. The fourth pool would be constructed at the same time and there would be space for a yet to be determined restaurant.

 

[Werner Weiss]

When I was in Ko Olina this past January the manager (BQ) stated that the 4th tower would begin construction in 2017 with an occupancy date of in 2019. The fourth pool would be constructed at the same time and there would be space for a yet to be determined restaurant.

A few years ago, the story at Ko Olina was that the fourth tower would open in late 2014.

I have no doubt that a manger this past January said construction would begin in 2017 and occupancy would begin in 2019.

This past January was before Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC) announced plans for San Diego, the Big Island, and South Beach. Those projects mean a lot of new Trust inventory is now in the pipeline. The inventory from a fourth tower at Ko Olina may not be needed so soon. Then again, maybe it will be.