Know anything about a company "Investools" ???

[Jennie]

A friend attended a 2 day seminar aimed at selling an investment educational program known as Investools. It's a system for picking stocks and options based upon technical factors (charts, graphs, red and green arrows). It costs $2,000. for the beginner's course and has additional optional components costing up to $23,000.. Friend, who is a very intelligent person not easily persuaded to part with even small sums of money, is about ready to sign up for it. I've spent a lot of time trying to obtain objective info about the program via the Internet but, despite visiting 30+ web sites (through a Google search), I can't find anything recent.

Does any TUGger have information about this program, or perhaps know someone who has bought into it. Their website is http://www.Investools.com

Many thanks for any info or advice.

 

[caribbeansun]

Good way to lose a lot of money fast!

For a better and much cheaper education on the evils of stock trading systems I suggest you/your friend read the book New Market Wizards. After you've digested that hopefully you'll understand why these systems don't work.

Essentially, it comes to this - in the market there are winners and there are losers - cheap system traders that use techinical analysis and stochastics are fodder.

Get your friend to invest a bit of time reading some solid investment books before throwing their money away such as:

- The Intelligent Investor (Ben Graham)
- The Warren Buffett Way (Robert G. Hagstrom)
- Beating the Street (Peter Lynch)

and many more.

Systems such as this are designed for people that don't want to invest in an education about stock markets and how and why to invest. As a result the whole experience becomes one not unlike that of a video game with a disconnect between the actions and outcomes. There is an unfounded trust in the system which is how people lose a lot money because they keep betting on a losing system thinking it's just a matter of time. This is very high risk!

 

[philemer]

Go to http://www.betterinvesting.org/ They help folks organize investment clubs. They have a monthly magazine and lots of investment tools your club can purchase. Very low initial cost and your club (maybe you'll find one in your area or you might want to start a new one) decides how much everyone invests each month. Then when you gain some experience you can start investing on your own too.

Phil

 

[jwq387]

investools

Good way to lose a lot of money fast!

For a better and much cheaper education on the evils of stock trading systems I suggest you/your friend read the book New Market Wizards. After you've digested that hopefully you'll understand why these systems don't work.

Essentially, it comes to this - in the market there are winners and there are losers - cheap system traders that use techinical analysis and stochastics are fodder.

Get your friend to invest a bit of time reading some solid investment books before throwing their money away such as:

- The Intelligent Investor (Ben Graham)
- The Warren Buffett Way (Robert G. Hagstrom)
- Beating the Street (Peter Lynch)

and many more.

Systems such as this are designed for people that don't want to invest in an education about stock markets and how and why to invest. As a result the whole experience becomes one not unlike that of a video game with a disconnect between the actions and outcomes. There is an unfounded trust in the system which is how people lose a lot money because they keep betting on a losing system thinking it's just a matter of time. This is very high risk!

I too, believe investools only makes the sellers wealthy. HOWEVER, technical analysis has been very successful for me as an investor. Over the last three years I have been able to do 12-16% per year profit LEARNING and using technical analysis to trade. Does this means all people using technical analysis will be successful? NO, NO, and NO. Buy and hold advocates(people who believe buying stock and holding on for many years yields profit) Seem to forget that most people can't hold stocks for 50-60 years, which is about the average amount of time one has to hold stocks in order to ride out extended bear markets that have occurred over the "lifetime" of the stock market. We have been fortunate to have experienced two bull markets over the last 25 years that have increased many individuals portfolios. However, if I were to have held my retirement funds in the "recommended" funds for 30 years and were ready to retire between 2000-2005, I would have lost 30-50% of my portfolio's value. So, I learned, and I trade, and I do so relatively successfully. JMHO.

 

[Brett]

Investools

I also think "Investools" is not appropriate for learning about investments and stock trading. If you have any doubts read some of the comments in August, 2006 about Investools on www.scam.com. (http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=4809) or the ones on www.ripoffreport.com

If you want to learn about investments (and stock trading but they are different) be prepared to spend some time - i.e. books at the local library or bookstore, magazine articles or real education courses such as ones offered at a community college.

 

[gmarine]

I too, believe investools only makes the sellers wealthy. HOWEVER, technical analysis has been very successful for me as an investor. Over the last three years I have been able to do 12-16% per year profit LEARNING and using technical analysis to trade. Does this means all people using technical analysis will be successful? NO, NO, and NO. Buy and hold advocates(people who believe buying stock and holding on for many years yields profit) Seem to forget that most people can't hold stocks for 50-60 years, which is about the average amount of time one has to hold stocks in order to ride out extended bear markets that have occurred over the "lifetime" of the stock market. We have been fortunate to have experienced two bull markets over the last 25 years that have increased many individuals portfolios. However, if I were to have held my retirement funds in the "recommended" funds for 30 years and were ready to retire between 2000-2005, I would have lost 30-50% of my portfolio's value. So, I learned, and I trade, and I do so relatively successfully. JMHO.

Fortunately it has been easy to make money in the stock market the last three years. The S and P 500 has returned over 12% a year and small cap indexes have returned 18% or so in the last three years.

You didnt need any technical analysis to get a good return the last three years. All you had to do was buy just about any stock index fund.

 

[Brett]

Fortunately it has been easy to make money in the stock market the last three years. The S and P 500 has returned over 12% a year and small cap indexes have returned 18% or so in the last three years. You didnt need any technical analysis to get a good return the last three years. All you had to do was buy just about any stock index fund.

Right. and if you increase the time span to ten years all the wall street money managers have a hard time beating the market indexes. (and supposedly they have the best education)

 

[caribbeansun]

I sincerely hope you feel the same way a few years from now (and I do mean that).

I would question your 50-60 year claim - marketing timing in reverse is no more valid than market timing going the other way IMO.

Frankly 12-16% over the past 3 years isn't particularly good, of course we are in different countries - the Canadian market has returned 24% in 2003, 12.5% in 2004, 22% in 2005 and 9.5% to the end of October in 2006.

Best of luck to you going forward.

I too, believe investools only makes the sellers wealthy. HOWEVER, technical analysis has been very successful for me as an investor. Over the last three years I have been able to do 12-16% per year profit LEARNING and using technical analysis to trade. Does this means all people using technical analysis will be successful? NO, NO, and NO. Buy and hold advocates(people who believe buying stock and holding on for many years yields profit) Seem to forget that most people can't hold stocks for 50-60 years, which is about the average amount of time one has to hold stocks in order to ride out extended bear markets that have occurred over the "lifetime" of the stock market. We have been fortunate to have experienced two bull markets over the last 25 years that have increased many individuals portfolios. However, if I were to have held my retirement funds in the "recommended" funds for 30 years and were ready to retire between 2000-2005, I would have lost 30-50% of my portfolio's value. So, I learned, and I trade, and I do so relatively successfully. JMHO.

 

[CarlK]

Get your friend to invest a bit of time reading some solid investment books before throwing their money away such as:
- The Intelligent Investor (Ben Graham)
- The Warren Buffett Way (Robert G. Hagstrom)
- Beating the Street (Peter Lynch)

I would also recommend, "Building Wealth with Dividend Stocks" by Joseph Tigue.
Carl

 

[Pit]

Funny, I saw an infomercial from this company just last night. You know, one of those late-night, how-to-get-rich-quick promos.

I have nothing against technical analysis. I use it myself. But, as others have stated, if your friend wants to learn technical analysis, they would do better to study the subject, rather than trying to buy a trading system.

If your friend is intent on getting the Investools material, it can be had for a lot less than $2K from unsatisfied customers that have opted to cut their losses. Just search ebay.

 

[Dave M]

Wow! Only 121 Investools items on eBay. Better hurry!

 

[jwq387]

Fortunately it has been easy to make money in the stock market the last three years. The S and P 500 has returned over 12% a year and small cap indexes have returned 18% or so in the last three years.

You didnt need any technical analysis to get a good return the last three years. All you had to do was buy just about any stock index fund.

You re right- in the last three years. However, the last 6 years, we have been in a "trading range". These trading ranges existed in the US stock market from 1900-1943(1.5% annual gain) 1962-1983(2.5% annual gain) and 2000-2005(1.5% annual LOSS). The only extended bull markets in the US existed from 1962-1983(9.0% annual gain) and 1983-2000(13.7% annual gain)
In fact from 2000-2005 the S%P 500 index would have LOST $7000 on a $100,000 investment. The DJW4500(Small Cap) Would have gained about 2% per year, and the EAFE(International Fund) would have gained about 1% per year. The last 3 years we are only partially recovering from the 50-60% loss in value from 2000-2002 in the above funds. If I were retiring in 2003 after holding my index funds since 1983, I would have lost over half my value. Therefore, I trade. Different strokes, I guess.

 

[Jennie]

Thank you for all of the great advice! I was able to convince my friend to avoid purchasing any Investool products. She owes me big time for this one.

Here are links to several different web sites where negative information has been posted about the program. Some sites were listed in the above replies from TUGgers and some I found on my own.

http://www.xyb.net/ (info is spread all over the page, including in the right and left hand colums, so look carefully for all 4 reviews)

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=4809 see "Moozico's" posted message

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=6410

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff207994.htm

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff160016.htm scroll down to the lower half of the page where the discussion switches from Forex to Investools.


The following message was posted at a Yahoo investing Group. The link does not work so I am placing it here in its original form:

Hi, I have been with Investools now for about three
years. I started out with the first class and have
moved my way up into the next class and the next class
and the next class. I think the software is
great, I have friends that use different software and
they think that what I use is a lot better. With that
said I do not think I will renew for $600 a year to
the web site when it runs out. I may be looking for
something else.

The thing what has got me the maddest is the fact the
instructors talk about the boats, cars, house,
vacations, and what they have done. Is it just me who
does not care about their car, boat and stuff? I am
here to learn, not talk about the ski trip. I have
complained and they gave me more time on the web
site. I think if they spent more time on the class and
less time on the Bling-Bling, they could get more into
one class.

To me they keep moving the goal post every
time you take a new class. I don't like that when you
take the first class in stocks, they upsell you to the
basic options class,then advanced options, then advanced technical
analysis and the so called coaching.

From what I have learned so far the 2nd and 3rd
class should be combined into one. The first class
should be a day and the last class, they should give a
test and if you pass, then you do not need to take
1-3.

I will say that I did learn some stuff and
that is a good thing. In my 403b (401K) Year one up
28%, two up 26.5% and so far this year (year three)
18%. For that I will say that it was a
very good class that I took. As far as my main
account, year one down 14%, year two down 8%, this
year (year three) up 31%. Over the
last three years, I'm only up 3.65% a year on
average, and that does not cover the money for the
classes and coaching. If I can do over 30% next year,
I would just recoup about half of what it has cost me for
the classes and access to their web site.

Todd

Todd -

I hear you. I strongly recommend you look at
EZ-Traders ez-traders.com I just completed a 3 day 1
on 1 class and am very happy I did. I got sucked dry
by Investools, too.

 

[Jennie]

If your friend is intent on getting the Investools material, it can be had for a lot less than $2K from unsatisfied customers that have opted to cut their losses. Just search ebay.

I looked into that too but the info in the books and DVDs just teach one how to use the "toolbox" on their web site. You cannot gain access to the web site unless you purchase at least their $1999. program. That program includess 6 months of access. Thereafter it is $299. to renew every six months.

I found a possible way to reduce the initial cost. Some of the people who posted complaints on the Internet mentioned that Success Magazine has ads for $995. for the basic program, if you take the classes on-line instead of attending 2-3 day training classes held around the country.

But then many of the disgruntled people who posted negative reviews at different web sites indicated that even if a lot of time and money is spent buying into and using their system, it just plain doesn't work.

One experienced investor evaluated the "toolbox" and stated that all of the information is available for free on the Internet but the "toolbox" gathers and neatly assembles it in one place, which is a convenience. The Investools web site also has great search capability. However, the investor stated that it does not contain enough information for options traders. But he did think that rather inexperienced people could find it very useful for helping to choose stocks and mutual funds. But he did not think it justified paying such a high price.

 

[Pit]

I looked into that too but the info in the books and DVDs just teach one how to use the "toolbox" on their web site. You cannot gain access to the web site unless you purchase at least their $1999. program. That program includess 6 months of access. Thereafter it is $299. to renew every six months.

Jennie

I have not seen their materials, but I assume those materials would explain their trading system (otherwise, what good are they?). However, I wouldn't put any faith in a publicly available trading system. There are many alternatives for online stock and options trading, but a lot of self-study, analysis, and backtesting are prerequisites, IMO.

The difficulty is not in accessing tools or charts (those are widely available), but in understanding modeling techniques, technical indicators, and how to use these tools to develop one's own trading system. It takes a serious commitment of time and effort, as well as self-discipline. If your friend is interested in making that investment, there are many, many books on the subject. These are two I found useful: "High Probability Trading" by Marcel Link as an introductory book (decent starting point), and "Analysis of Financial Time Series" by Ruey Tsay (if she wants to dig into modeling).

I'd also suggest subscribing to the monthly publication "Technical Analysis of Stocks & Commodities." They publish trading techniques, reviews, and reader surveys to ferret out the best products. This publication has survived the test of time (not sure when they started, but my copies date back to 1988).

I read some of the posts you linked, and IMO the service being offered belongs in the category "If it sounds too good to be true, ..." In fact, it reminds me of an experience a friend once endured with a company selling water filtration products. Their goal was to soak him (no pun intended) for "training," all the while promising financial independence (after the next class). Good for you to talk your friend out of it.

 

[Jennie]

Thank you so much for all the great recommendations. Not only will I pass them along to my friend, but it has motivated me to explore them further myself. I am a "youngish" retiree with lots of time and energy. It's about time I started to take a more active role in managing my investments. The "crash course" I've just received while researching my friend's situation has opened my eyes to the fact that there are better ways to grow my savings outside of the lazy man's mutual funds route.

 

[Jennie]

Wow! Only 121 Investools items on eBay. Better hurry!

I've been tracking the Investools program on Ebay for several weeks now. Many of the ads are for a dvd that reportedly assists you in understanding the real program. It was not produced by the Investools Company and has no connection to them. It sells for $9.99 and is posted multiple times each day, accounting for the large number of items you will see if you search for "Investools."

But the auctions involving the real Investools programs get a large number of independent bids and sell for hundreds of dollars. My stubborn friend is still hell-bent on buying the "Basic Options" and possibly the "Advanced Options" insruction manuals and DVDs. Sometimes they are sold separately; sometimes bundled together. Sometimes the auction involves only the manual without the DVDS and other times the DVDs w/o the course manual. My friend has bid on at leat 50 separate auctions and keeps getting sniped. The winning bids are usually in the $300. to $400. range for one program and around $500. for the two together.

It seems as if many are being sold by Investools students who bought them at full price (and have probably made copies for their own use) and are now trying to recoup some of their cost--kinda like buying a timeshare from a developer and then later selling it on Ebay wishing they had known about the resale market before paying full price :annoyed:

So maybe there is some value to the program if it can be obtained at a reasonable price on Ebay. There are certainly a large number of potential buyers who think so. I'm really surprised at the high prices being paid by the sucessful bidders.