KBV Board meeting

[tango]

I was able to attend the zoom board meeting today. Basically, it was business as usual. I think the only thing of interest is that the special assessments were mailed out this week, so you can expect them soon. The other thing is that someone asked if the remediation cost of $4.1 million was a final, firm number or not. The answer being, we don’t know. They apparently have to have the $4.1 million before they can get concrete bids on the project, and the concrete bids will depend on what the engineers find as they dig into the project. So, it is hoped that they have built enough cushion into the $4.1 million estimate, so that a further assessment is not necessary. There was an executive session prior to the meeting which involved lawyers discussing the law suit, so that the general meeting started over 30 minutes late. But nothing was revealed regarding that session.

 

[magmue]

I am on an old email list about KBV from several years ago, and FWIW another member shared this about yesterday:

"I had to leave early (11:40) so I missed most of the meeting. I left a message in the Chat on the Zoom platform, asking what the result of the vote was last spring..... Here's what I received:

Aloha,
To answer your question the special meeting vote did not occur due to the cancellation of the meeting, which was the result of a group of AOAO owners who, at the last minute, initiated a mediation with the AOAO board. The delay in the meeting was recommended by association counsel, and we do not have another date set yet.....

Mahalo,
Liane Henderson"

IOW their official position is that the "vote" never happened because they canceled the Special Meeting that was scheduled to talk about voting results and next steps.

 

[bnoble]

And, that's correct, because some votes would have been cast at that special meeting. So, there is no definitive vote until that happens.

 

[schreff]

If the BOD and Wyndham keep extending inaction, the KBV death spiral only gets more costly. Like Agatha Christie's Ten Little Indians, owners and their revenues are disappearing rapidly. The result is less revenues, more mini special assessments prior to the big one, increases in maintenance fees and Wyndham gaining more power. This is Wyndham's power game plan and owners are the suckers that are born every minute.

We are old folks so this slow death spiral is painful in that we certainly don't want our high credit score (at or close to 850) to take a hit which it would if we were to default.

 

[bianchicycle]

Surprisingly, from a reliable source, the place is full and doing well. The drawback is the two closed buildings and the assessment will get them going.

 

[tango]

We are here right now, and unfortunately the units are in a sorry state. Exposed rebar, rusted doors that won't shut. Not talking about the waterfront units either. Yes there is occupancy, but probably people like us, squeezing in our last visit.

 

[CO skier]

We are old folks so this slow death spiral is painful in that we certainly don't want our high credit score (at or close to 850) to take a hit which it would if we were to default.

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Two more data points

tugbbs.com

"Wyndham defaults w credit drops: 6 (5 loans, 1 MF) out of 11 (8 loans, 3 MF)"

Wyndham would not have the Social Security number of resale buyers unless they supplied it (Wyndham does not have my SS number.)

Even if there is a credit drop due to a MF default, a drop of 50 points seems to be typical from reading the rest of the thread.

 

[bianchicycle]

But what about liens on the defaulted money. Do you not figure they will go to collections, etc? They could have your SSN if you bought from Pahio, etc or a realtor and they needed to do a credit check. If I could dump all of my weeks for only a 40 point credit hit.... I'm in....

 

[tango]

Good link on the other thread by CO Skier about defaults.

 

[bnoble]

One does not need to have the SSN to file a delinquent payment.

Accounts Reported without Social Security Number - Experian

Can a credit agency post something on my credit report without my Social Security number? - KOK

www.experian.com

 

[CO skier]

One does not need to have the SSN to file a delinquent payment.

Accounts Reported without Social Security Number - Experian

Can a credit agency post something on my credit report without my Social Security number? - KOK

www.experian.com

The link refers to "lender." If anyone has (or had in the past) a loan involved with KBV, they are really up the creek. This thread is about a special assessment. And my post specifically referred to resale buyers who did not supply their SSN to Wyndham.

I offered only one possible explanation for the lack of credit drops upon maintenance fee defaults.

What would you suggest as a possible explanation for the roughly 50/50 chance of a credit drop upon loan and/or maintenance fee default?

... and here is the question no one is asking, but is the likely result in a few years, "What if the vote to terminate succeeds (likely), but no buyer for the property can be found (likely)?" The bills still go on. Right? More just band-aid special assessments?

jmo - the smart money defaults now for $600-ish, instead of "later" when the numbers on a default get much larger.

 

[bianchicycle]

Just because you default on the assessment now does not mean that you don't still own the timeshare. as for the property after a vote and no buyer.... The Coconut Grove ( i think that's what it was called ) Sat abandoned for years. Demolition was started and then just left there to die. No bills incurring.

 

[tango]

The Coco Palms is a great example of what happens on development averse Kauai. I do think that KBV is a better location than Coco Palms, however, the difficulty of redevelopment remains.

 

[Julie107]

I think I heard that some owners of G and H were suing the board. Does anyone know if that's true?

 

[bnoble]

Yes, many of the whole owners are suing AOAO, IOA, Wyndham, and anyone else they can get their hands on. Trial was scheduled for this month, but it looks like it has been moved to November.

You can read many of the documents in other KBV threads.

 

[bnoble]

I took a look at recent updates. The IOA's motion for summary judgement was granted. If I am reading the order correctly, the plaintiffs did not demonstrate sufficient evidence of collusion between the IOA and AOAO, and the IOA doesn't owe a fiduciary duty to the whole owners. This doesn't help all that much, because the IOA members are also members of the AOAO, but at least the IOA members won't be held liable for anything extra.

The plaintiffs' motion to file the second amended complaint as a class action was also granted, but the class can still be objected to by the defendants.

I've uploaded these two orders here, with the other documents I've purchased from the eCourt Kōkua.

KBV-suit - Google Drive

drive.google.com

It also looks like the motion to enjoin the partition vote was withdrawn, presumably because the AOAO has voluntarily paused that vote.

As a reminder, I am neither a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.

 

[Julie107]

Thx! I can't say that I understand even a tenth of the docs but at least I have them.

I'm also learning key words for pertinent searches on TUG so sorry if I ask to repeat info found elsewhere.

By "full owners" do you mean people who live full time in a unit? Or people who own 1 week every year?

Thanks again.

 

[bnoble]

Full owners: people who own an entire unit. They might live there and/or they might rent it out as a short-term (or long-term) rental.

The AOAO is the Board that represents all owners---full and fractional.
The IOA is the Board that represents only the fractional owners.

Generally, the IOA votes in AOAO elections on behalf of the IOA members. The vote to partition is a notable exception.

 

[schreff]

KBV will be sending out the 2025 maintenance fee notices soon. Paying these maintenance fees for a resort in clear financial and physical decline is a waste and imprudent. The BOD keep us in the dark and evades the truth. Has the BOD met their fiduciary responsibilities? (Positively not) For example, I have sent two letters to the BOD asking them to address specific questions but have received nothing. Is it fair for us to pay another year of maintenance fees without knowledge of the truth about what the BOD and Wyndham's plans are for future of the resort? How can this be justified by the attorneys who are supposedly acting on behalf of we, the owners?

 

[bnoble]

If you want to keep using your weeks, pay for them. If you don't, don't. It's not that complicated. But while the resort is still open and operating, they are going to continue to send out bills. Yelling at the internet about it won't change anything, but you do you.

 

[DeniseM]

We are still paying our maintenance fees and banking the weeks in RCI. We are getting about 35 points per week. For 2024, we used our points for 3 weeks at the Point at Poipu. I'd like to see the closure resolved, but we are going to get value out of it until then.

 

[CO skier]

The IOA's motion for summary judgement was granted. If I am reading the order correctly, the plaintiffs did not demonstrate sufficient evidence of collusion between the IOA and AOAO, and the IOA doesn't owe a fiduciary duty to the whole owners.

Attorneys' court filings are always from their particular viewpoint. The following sentence, nonetheless, from the IOA Motion for Summary Judgement does make reference to the Kauai Beach Villas Wyndham conspiracy theories floating around:

"The Complaint tells a fantastical tale with claims of conspiracy theories
and organized crime, while simultaneously being devoid of any specific factual allegations as to
Defendant Pahio at Kauai Beach Villas Interval Owners Association (“IOA”)."

 

[schreff]

We are still paying our maintenance fees and banking the weeks in RCI. We are getting about 35 points per week. For 2024, we used our points for 3 weeks at the Point at Poipu. I'd like to see the closure resolved, but we are going to get value out of it until then.

Thanks, this is what we have been doing. Fortunately, we can afford it but some fellow owners cannot considering the financial stress inflation has caused. They are forced to give up their week or weeks without a full understanding of what the future brings. What if there is another mini special assessment prior to finalization? This is unfair, complicated and stressful to them as proven by some of the previous posts.

Some folks don't give a darn about others but we do. My wife and I have been timeshare owners for over 30 years and have never been kept in the dark by a BOD before this. Sorry to vent my feelings and I will just not post again. I thought this was what TUG was all about, i.e. helping others and seeking other TUGGERS feedback?

We do appreciate your kindness and dedication.

 

[DeniseM]

At this point it's just a waiting game. Since Wyndham's hostile takeover, this board has been completely under their thumb, and there is no reason to expect that to change, short of a court order. I don't expect them to budge until the lawsuit is settled.

So we can certainly ask questions and share info here, but for now, we are all in the dark, and I for one, am not going to stress over it. Life is too short!