Is this offer worth the $$$/points?

[jrattinger]

Hi All,

First post here...

I was recently offered an opportunity to buy a unit for cheap ($12,000) that had the ability to trade for 90,000 points every year. Yearly maintenance was just under $1,000. The only reason for purchasing this unit would be for turning in the points every year and never actually staying there. We turned it down, but am now having second thoughts.

Any wisdom from the group here as to whether this is a good deal?

Regards,
John

 

[Bill4728]

OK;

Your deal :
Pay $12,000 to buy the TS
pay $1000/year in MFs ( which will go up)
pay $104 to turn your TS into 90,000 reward pts
Total of $1104 for 90K pt/year ( which can not be used at a Marriott TS.)

OR
Don't buy the TS saving $12,000
Buy direct from Marriott 50,000 reward pts a year for $625
Have your spouse buy 50,000 reward pts direct for $625.
Total $1250 get you 100,000 pts/yr
and use a Marriott Visa to get more pts
The pts you buy and earn can be used at all Marriott branded resort including TSs.

What do you think?

 

[gmarine]

If this unit is a resale you will not be able to trade it in for points anyway. Only developer purchases can be traded in for Marriott Rewards points. But Bill made it pretty clear whether it was a good deal or not.

 

[ondeadlin]

Here's a 5-year comparison of two routes you could follow. Let's assume, for the sake of modeling, that your MF would be $900 with this week.

Route 1: Initial investment of $12,000, plus 5 years of MFs ($4750) nets you 450,000 Marriott Rewards points. Plus $140 a year to convert to points, another $700. Total cost: $17,500, minus whatever you could get for the week resale. Let's assume $6,000, although I think that's generous, so your total cost would be $11,500 for the points.

Route 2: Every year you and your wife purchase 50,000 points each directly from Marriott for $1,300 a year and, after five years, you have 500,000 points. Your total cost would be $6,500.

Route 1 will cost you at least $4,950 more and result in fewer net points. The math will get worse for Route 1 if MFs increase.

If you're getting bonus points/incentives, you'll have to judge whether you value them more than $5,200.

 

[jrattinger]

Wow,

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. I didn't realize that you can buy points at such a good price. How do you actually go about buying them? Also, how can I find out more info about using these points towards a TS week. Can these points also be used for some of the rewards vacation packages?

Thanks,
John

 

[ondeadlin]

http://www.marriott.com/rewards/usepoints/tranpurc.mi

And I'd caution you about getting excited about using the points for timeshare stays. Availability is very, very limited.

 

[winger]

Also consider...

John.

In addition to just looking at it from points perspective, also consider if you will ever use your week: such as locking it off for two vacations/yr, exchange it to somewhere that costs $$$ to stay, bonus II time, etc...

Hey, maybe you can buy the pts (50k/yr x 2, your wife), and with your TS week (purchased resale OR direct), have a two week vacation each year - one week stay at your TS, 2nd week at a Marriott hotel. Plus you would hopefully get airline miles with the Marriott points and save some $$$ by getting a FF seat or two.

We purchased our MMC direct from Marriott so we have the fallback/option of MRP's IF for some reason we could not use it for a given year.

 

[thinze3]

Wow,

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. I didn't realize that you can buy points at such a good price. How do you actually go about buying them? Also, how can I find out more info about using these points towards a TS week. Can these points also be used for some of the rewards vacation packages?

Thanks,
John

I bought my Marriott's Legends Egde for the purpose of trading for MR points most of the time. I have since seen these weeks virtually given away on eBay. Not a good investment at all. I visited the place once, and like it, traded once for points, and traded once for another resort. I also bought MR points last year and will do that again this year.

Some people need more points than you can buy annually. To get to the magical 540K points, it would take 6 years if purchasing, but by adding a timeshare, that time can be cut in half.

I have learned to use points for cheap hotel stays in the last couple of years as well and am starting to feel that I need more points. So, all in all, it depends on what you want to do with the points. Remember, the second you sign the papers with Marriott, half of your money will be lost.


Terry

 

[kamumma1]

Have to say - I love the points. Just booked a trip to AZ. Airfare and hotel would have cost me $4K had I paid cash. Instead, used my points from TS and MRP cc. My maintenance fees are ~ $820 in January. I realize I'm not factoring in the initial purchase, but boy does it feel like a deal "not paying" anything.

 

[winger]

Have to say - I love the points. Just booked a trip to AZ. Airfare and hotel would have cost me $4K had I paid cash. Instead, used my points from TS and MRP cc. My maintenance fees are ~ $820 in January. I realize I'm not factoring in the initial purchase, but boy does it feel like a deal "not paying" anything.

Yes, we just booked out 2nd trip in a year to Hawaii (for spring break 2009) and we have NOT paid any airfare for the four of us !!!

 

[icydog]

OK;

Your deal :
Pay $12,000 to buy the TS
pay $1000/year in MFs ( which will go up)
pay $104 to turn your TS into 90,000 reward pts
Total of $1104 for 90K pt/year ( which can not be used at a Marriott TS.)

OR
Don't buy the TS saving $12,000
Buy direct from Marriott 50,000 reward pts a year for $625
Have your spouse buy 50,000 reward pts direct for $625.
Total $1250 get you 100,000 pts/yr
and use a Marriott Visa to get more pts
The pts you buy and earn can be used at all Marriott branded resort including TSs.

What do you think?

Wow who knew!!! Thanks for that synopsis. That's what I was looking for, for a long time.

 

[icydog]

Here's a 5-year comparison of two routes you could follow. Let's assume, for the sake of modeling, that your MF would be $900 with this week.

Route 1: Initial investment of $12,000, plus 5 years of MFs ($4750) nets you 450,000 Marriott Rewards points. Plus $140 a year to convert to points, another $700. Total cost: $17,500, minus whatever you could get for the week resale. Let's assume $6,000, although I think that's generous, so your total cost would be $11,500 for the points.

Route 2: Every year you and your wife purchase 50,000 points each directly from Marriott for $1,300 a year and, after five years, you have 500,000 points. Your total cost would be $6,500.

Route 1 will cost you at least $4,950 more and result in fewer net points. The math will get worse for Route 1 if MFs increase.

If you're getting bonus points/incentives, you'll have to judge whether you value them more than $5,200.

I love this thread. Thanks for doing the arithmetic for me. I knew pts were not a good buy but seeing it in black and white makes a lot of sense. My doctors wife asked me for help reserving and depositing her Marriott weeks. She owns at Seaview in NJ and this Feb bought a Horizons in Orlando to get points. I had to tell her I didn't think that was a good idea but I couldn't explain why. NOW I know. I won't tell her though. Why upset her. Thanks for a great explanation!

 

[pwrshift]

Here's a plan. I don't have the figures with me right now and hope these are close...buy 2 two-bdrm lockoffs (with full kitchens in both parts) at the just announced Grande Lakes Platinum Premiere for about $32,000 each for Marriott owners.

That nets you about 630,000 MR points each ... 1,200,000 MR points to start including 3 years of non use while being built ... then you can trade them in for 130,000 pts each for another 2 years (5 total) and after that EOY. Free closing too. You can't use the resort until 2010 anyways, so get ready to spend 1 million points on a couple of fancy '2nd honeymoon' 2-week trips - of course using business class air to fully max your value and European hotels to max out on the currency differences. Two 2-week trips to Europe, biz class, Cat 7 hotels, would require a bank loan otherwise and the banks aren't too friendly these days.

The biggest problem to 'buying' points is the time it takes to get anywhere...imagine, it would take you 12 years to get there at 50,000 x 2 each year. Buying points, and trading your lockoff weeks for points, is purely a 'replacement for points used' plan IMO - but after you've got a pile of start up points from a double direct purchase. Using a credit card helps but you'd have to put your mortgage on it to get a million points fast enough.

My last two TS purchases were bought for about $18000 each but came with 500,000 MR points each. Add that to the points from prior purchases and I was sitting with over 2 million points in 2002. Have never come close to running out as I always turn in 2 of my 6 weeks for points every year for replenishment. Works for me -- I'm an empty nester now and don't need 2 bdrm suites, so the lockoffs are perfect so I can split and use TS weeks every year and still get a fantastic luxury MR trip at least EOY. Fun.

Brian

 

[dioxide45]

That nets you about 630,000 MR points each ... 1,200,000 MR points to start including 3 years of non use while being built ... then you can trade them in for 130,000 pts each for another 2 years (5 total) and after that EOY. Free closing too.

Will one be able to lock off in to two 1BRs and be able to exchange each unit for 130K? Something tells me no. Also with first useage in 2010, you will only have one year of non-use pionts (2009).

 

[pwrshift]

Nope .. you trade in the whole unit for 130k points ... about $1000 in MF, and after the 5th year you can only do it EOY.

2008, 2009, 2010 for non-use points depending on projected 2010 opening date but they will allow 5 years in a row for points. Loans if needed, 9.99% (ouch) but less than normal loan rates at Marriott.

Point hounds could make this into something. I'm tempted but it's Orlando.

Brian

 

[ondeadlin]

Here's a plan. I don't have the figures with me right now and hope these are close...buy 2 two-bdrm lockoffs (with full kitchens in both parts) at the just announced Grande Lakes Platinum Premiere for about $32,000 each for Marriott owners.

That nets you about 630,000 MR points each ... 1,200,000 MR points to start including 3 years of non use while being built ... then you can trade them in for 130,000 pts each for another 2 years (5 total) and after that EOY. Free closing too. You can't use the resort until 2010 anyways, so get ready to spend 1 million points on a couple of fancy '2nd honeymoon' 2-week trips - of course using business class air to fully max your value and European hotels to max out on the currency differences. Two 2-week trips to Europe, biz class, Cat 7 hotels, would require a bank loan otherwise and the banks aren't too friendly these days.

Brian

Cost of this plan?

--- MFs during first three non-use years, let's say $650 per unit, per year, or
$3,900.

--- Plus that "convert to points fee, $140 per unit, per year, or another $840.

--- Two more years of trading both units equals $650 MF and $140 lockoff fee, per year, per unit, or another $3,160.

--- And, of course, the initial purchase price of $64,000 (which, most folks will have to finance, increasing costs even more, but we won't get into that).

Total cost? $71,900, minus resale value of around $10,000 per week after five years, or $51,900 for 1,780,000 Marriott Rewards points.

Total cost per point? 2.9 cents per point.

Again, during that same 5-year period it's possible for a couple to accumulate 500,000 points for $6,500 by purchasing directly from Marriott.

Total cost per point? 1.3 cents per point.

Brian is correct in pointing out that buying points does not enable you to wrack up large amounts of Marriott points quickly.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Very interesting analysis.

Bottom line, don't buy a unit for the costly benefit of free points, rather just buy the points directly from Marriott.

 

[ondeadlin]

So, I've thought about this some more.

Brian's $52,000 spend nets you enough points for 7 category six travel packages, i.e. seven weeks at a great Marriott and 840,000 frequent flier miles.

Buying points over that same period would net you enough points to for two packages, i.e. two weeks at a great Marriott and 240,000 frequent flier miles.

But let me point out something else. Let's say you took $10,000 and, instead of spending it on a Marriott timeshare, you bought a Marriott gift card at 10 percent off (deal available here).

Now you've got $11,000 to spend at a Marriott. If you get the credit card, you'll automatically be silver, which means you'll be getting 12 points per $1 spent when you use the gift card. Oh, and that $11,000 gift card has no blackout dates, etc.

Even if you spent $400 a night on European Marriotts, that gift card would net you almost four weeks of nights. If you used it here in America, at $150 a night, you could stay 78 nights!

Plus, of course, after you used the gift card, you'd net 120,000 Marriott Rewards points, plus 20,000 Delta miles that came with the promo.

You'd have spent $42,000 less than Brian and you'd come away with at least six weeks at a Marriott (and potentially 13 weeks in the U.S.!), plus 120,000 MR points, plus 20,000 Delta miles.

Only downside? Brian would have 600,000 more frequent flier miles than you, certainly a very, very nice sum. Worth $42,000? That obviously is up to the individual.

 

[cp73]

Brian's $52,000 spend nets you enough points for 7 category six travel packages, i.e. seven weeks at a great Marriott and 840,000 frequent flier miles.

ondeadlin,

I think Brian is spending $64,000 not $52,000. Recheck your math please or did I miss something.

 

[hot2trot]

It doesn't matter the value of points or the good deal - when you buy "externally" , in other words from someone outside of Marriott you CAN NEVER TAKE POINTS!!!.

The only way you can transfer ownership and the new owner get the points is if it is a transfer within a family, i.e. your parents or grandparents gift you or sell you the week. Then and only then will you be able to have the points. In order to accomplish it is recommended Marriott handle the escrow.

 

[dioxide45]

ondeadlin,

I think Brian is spending $64,000 not $52,000. Recheck your math please or did I miss something.

I think resale value was subtracted?

 

[ondeadlin]

ondeadlin,

I think Brian is spending $64,000 not $52,000. Recheck your math please or did I miss something.

Chris, if you follow the example you gave, you'll see $52,000 is the approximated final amount spent after purchase price, all fees, and a credit back for resale value.

 

[ondeadlin]

It doesn't matter the value of points or the good deal - when you buy "externally" , in other words from someone outside of Marriott you CAN NEVER TAKE POINTS!!!.

Most of TUG is very familiar with this. Wasn't part of the discussion.

 

[kjd]

Points

In my opiniion there are several things to keep in mind about points.

1. Points are usually not a good deal if you purchase them unless you are "topping off" a vacation for points.

2. A timeshare is not an investment and therefore lengthy and tortured financial analysis is futile. It's all about a lifetime of vacations with family.

3. You cannot really go anywhere, (unless to Casper Wyo) on the h/w purchase of 100,000 points. It'l take years to accumulate enough points for a decent two week+ vacation.

4. If you simply purchase points you are limited to a changing award schedule and blackout periods at many choice Marriott hotels.

5. Points work well for some who vacation internationally and use the vacation packages. Vacation packages are a good deal, but you will need a lot of points.

6. Points are a good way of avoiding the currency risk when planning an overseas vacation.

7. Once points are spent there is no residual value. You might be better off renting.

 

[ondeadlin]

3. You cannot really go anywhere, (unless to Casper Wyo) on the h/w purchase of 100,000 points. It'l take years to accumulate enough points for a decent two week+ vacation.

You could make the same argument against justifying trading your developer timeshare for 90,000 to 120,000 Marriott points annually. In fact, it's one of the best arguments against developer purchase. Why spend $30,000 on a timeshare, and $600 to $1,000 in annual MF when the points you get in return won't even get you a full travel package every year? Heck, in some cases it won't even get you a travel package every two years.

2. A timeshare is not an investment and therefore lengthy and tortured financial analysis is futile. It's all about a lifetime of vacations with family.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but I find most folks on TUG are much more interested in getting the most bang for their vacation dollar.

There are those in position to spend $50,000 or more on developer timeshares who are extremely happy with their purchase. There are those in position who could easily spend that same $50,000, but prefer to get virtually the same vacation experience for 1/5th or 1/10th the cost.

To each his own.