Is anyone on TUG a serious eBay seller?

[DaveNV]

It occurs to me that a lot of folks have timeshares they'd like to sell for whatever price they can get. But some folks are put off with the hassle of selling on eBay. It's either too much trouble, or they don't know how. I also know there are eBay "brokers" located in various cities, where people can bring by goods to be sold on eBay on consignment. When the item sells, the broker keeps a commission for doing the listing, selling, paperwork, shipping and so forth.

So why not do something like that with timeshares? Selling it on eBay for a dollar still means the seller loses money, so why not pay a broker $50 or $100 over listing fees for the trouble of processing the paperwork? If all the deed papers were in place, and a closing company was used, it could be a nice business for an enterprising person who was savvy to eBay's ins and outs.

Is this a new idea, or something that has been considered and dismissed before? Anyone have ideas about it?

Dave

 

[BocaBum99]

In the state of Florida, selling timeshares on behalf of others and receiving a commission without a real estate license is a 3rd degree felony punishable up to $5000 and/or 5 years in prison.

I suspect there are similar laws in other states. Before you do such an enterprise, make sure you don't get put in jail for offering such services.

 

[DaveNV]

In the state of Florida, selling timeshares on behalf of others and receiving a commission without a real estate license is a 3rd degree felony punishable up to $5000 and/or 5 years in prison.

I suspect there are similar laws in other states. Before you do such an enterprise, make sure you don't get put in jail for offering such services.

Well, there you go. That's a great reason why this hasn't been done before. I knew there had to be a reason.

I didn't consider it as being a real estate thing, since the broker would only be acting as go-between between buyer and seller. The rest would be up to them or the closing company? Or something.

Nevermind. It's still a good idea.

Dave

 

[BocaBum99]

The only thing that lands you in jail is collecting a commission fee for delivering a service of real estate requiring a license.

You can auction property for others if you don't take a fee. Or, if you get paid a salary. Or, if you are a court appointed trustee for an estate and several other exceptions to the general rule.

In addition, you can buy or sell your own property without a license. So, one way to eliminate the licensing requirement is to buy and sell on your own account. Many of the current ebay auctioners use the double close method for legally bypassing real estate licensing law. In other words, get limited power of attorney for the transfer of a timeshare, sell it on eBay, transfer it into their name and then into the name of the ebay buyer on the same day. ebayer pays the auctioner. The auction pays the original seller. In this case, they are a real estate dealer.

The safest thing to do is to get a real estate license and then follow real estate law. Then, you can collect a commision legally and the title transfers directly between the seller and the buyer with you as their agent / tranaction broker.

 

[jeffox]

Same here

I've always wondered the same thing. What if I was a real estate agent in one state selling (or brokering) a timeshare in another to a person in a third state? Would this still be legal?

 

[skinsfan]

Yes, as long as you have an affiliation with a licensed broker. Here is a link with the info

I've always wondered the same thing. What if I was a real estate agent in one state selling (or brokering) a timeshare in another to a person in a third state? Would this still be legal?

 

[rickandcindy23]

I believe you have to be licensed in the state the timeshare is located. I haven't delved into it much as a Realtor myself. The Broker/Owner of my particular Keller Williams branch was very negative about the timeshare sales thing when I asked her on December 31st, the day I signed on. She said there isn't any money in timeshare sales and she would rather see me go in a different direction.

So many pitfalls of selling timeshares. Plus there is no choice in our MLS for that property type. I remember when I worked at Metrolist (Denver's MLS), that property type was on the system, and there were listings, but no more.

In Colorado, you can help someone advertise a property and give free advice, but if you don't own it, you really cannot sell it and take anything for it. If you sell something, you also MUST disclose that it is your own that you are selling.

This must not be true of the sellers for the PCC's because they don't disclose who owns the property, and they make it seem like they are a brokerage company of some sort. What they actually do is take power of attorney over the week. I think they walk a fine line, but no one seems to challenge them legally. I mean, how can this transaction take place with a clueless owner who gives power of attorney of the week to the PCC, then the company has agents who list those weeks (and they often use the weeks and points for the current year, requiring that those maintenance fees are paid in full for the year), then those same companies operate their own closing companies.

They get by with walking this fine line. Yet I have to be careful about advising a friend how to sell their home; additionally, I have to disclose that I am the current owner of whatever property I am selling of my own, even a timeshare in a different state. I can lose my license without full disclosure.

Where is the disclosure on the ads on eBay? Who owns the weeks, how are these salespeople selling something for Vacation Solutions, or whatever company they are working for?

 

[skinsfan]

This is a direct quote from the article on the Stroman court case.

The court ruled that a real estate license in the state where the broker is resident suffices if the real estate broker conducts business with a physical presence only in his specific state. Real estate brokers who meet that physical presence test may not have to apply and pay for licenses in every state.

So you dont have to be licensed in the state the timeshare is in.

I believe you have to be licensed in the state the timeshare is located. I haven't delved into it much as a Realtor myself. The Broker/Owner of my particular Keller Williams branch was very negative about the timeshare sales thing when I asked her on December 31st, the day I signed on. She said there isn't any money in timeshare sales and she would rather see me go in a different direction.

So many pitfalls of selling timeshares. Plus there is no choice in our MLS for that property type. I remember when I worked at Metrolist (Denver's MLS), that property type was on the system, and there were listings, but no more.

In Colorado, you can help someone advertise a property and give free advice, but if you don't own it, you really cannot sell it and take anything for it. If you sell something, you also MUST disclose that it is your own that you are selling.

This must not be true of the sellers for the PCC's because they don't disclose who owns the property, and they make it seem like they are a brokerage company of some sort. What they actually do is take power of attorney over the week. I think they walk a fine line, but no one seems to challenge them legally. I mean, how can this transaction take place with a clueless owner who gives power of attorney of the week to the PCC, then the company has agents who list those weeks (and they often use the weeks and points for the current year, requiring that those maintenance fees are paid in full for the year), then those same companies operate their own closing companies.

They get by with walking this fine line. Yet I have to be careful about advising a friend how to sell their home; additionally, I have to disclose that I am the current owner of whatever property I am selling of my own, even a timeshare in a different state. I can lose my license without full disclosure.

Where is the disclosure on the ads on eBay? Who owns the weeks, how are these salespeople selling something for Vacation Solutions, or whatever company they are working for?

 

[Bill4728]

Asking this question a different way.

If you proivided a service which was just to construct the ebay ads for others to use to sell their TS. Maybe with step by step instuctions on how to post the ad, ect. That would be OK?

The reason I see this as a big plus for the seller is that a poor Ebay ad will not get anyone bidding on the TS even if it is a great deal.

 

[skinsfan]

I don't think there would be anything wrong with that scenario, as long as your being paid a set fee for services rendered (and it would probably have to be upfront).

Asking this question a different way.

If you proivided a service which was just to construct the ebay ads for others to use to sell their TS. Maybe with step by step instuctions on how to post the ad, ect. That would be OK?

The reason I see this as a big plus for the seller is that a poor Ebay ad will not get anyone bidding on the TS even if it is a great deal.

 

[TUGBrian]

then you would be charging an up front advertising fee.

 

[skinsfan]

lol well technically yeah, but if the person was not confident in doing it then there would be a need for that service. This is all "hypothetical"

then you would be charging an up front advertising fee.

 

[DaveNV]

My point in asking this is that a PCC scams the seller out of money, then dumps the ts on ebay or wherever. What I was thinking of was more of the service thing Bill talked about, where a seller who knew what it was they wanted to sell could contract with the eBay seller company to list the TS and run the auction, then turn over the paperwork process to an escrow company the buyer and seller each deal with directly. The service is complete when the auction is closed, and the two parties involved are on their own after that. So all the ebay company did was introduce a buyer to a seller via the auction.

This is so clear in my head, I wish I could put the words down better...

Dave

 

[BocaBum99]

Asking this question a different way.

If you proivided a service which was just to construct the ebay ads for others to use to sell their TS. Maybe with step by step instuctions on how to post the ad, ect. That would be OK?

The reason I see this as a big plus for the seller is that a poor Ebay ad will not get anyone bidding on the TS even if it is a great deal.

Yes, this is legal because you are getting paid whether or not it sells. That is a fee for service, not a commission.

 

[BocaBum99]

My point in asking this is that a PCC scams the seller out of money, then dumps the ts on ebay or wherever. What I was thinking of was more of the service thing Bill talked about, where a seller who knew what it was they wanted to sell could contract with the eBay seller company to list the TS and run the auction, then turn over the paperwork process to an escrow company the buyer and seller each deal with directly. The service is complete when the auction is closed, and the two parties involved are on their own after that. So all the ebay company did was introduce a buyer to a seller via the auction.

This is so clear in my head, I wish I could put the words down better...

Dave

You can absolutely provide an eBay service to auction properties for people. You are technically then in the business of running auctions for other people. As long as you do not a) get paid only if it sells and b) do not set your fee based on how much it sells for. Then, you are in the auction business, not the real estate business.

 

[bltfam]

I am wanting to give my 3 Br unit in Va away. I do buying and selling on ebay and could list it no problem but then. once i get a buyer/receiver then i would have to find a realistate broker to transfer the deed and contact the resort to change ownership so thats why i havent

 

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Bltfam,

Once you find a buyer, you actually need the services of a timeshare closing company. Real estate brokers arrange real estate sales but do not do the actual transfer activities.

John

 

[BocaBum99]

Hi Bltfam,

Once you find a buyer, you actually need the services of a timeshare closing company. Real estate brokers arrange real estate sales but do not do the actual transfer activities.

John

John,

Many brokers also do closings for their customers. But, I do agree that Bltfam only needs a closing company if they sell it themselves.

 

[Aussiedog]

sounds almost like a consignment service

My point in asking this is that a PCC scams the seller out of money, then dumps the ts on ebay or wherever. What I was thinking of was more of the service thing Bill talked about, where a seller who knew what it was they wanted to sell could contract with the eBay seller company to list the TS and run the auction, then turn over the paperwork process to an escrow company the buyer and seller each deal with directly. The service is complete when the auction is closed, and the two parties involved are on their own after that. So all the ebay company did was introduce a buyer to a seller via the auction.

This is so clear in my head, I wish I could put the words down better...

Dave

Certainly seems doable. There is a similar model out there for "stuff". I live a few miles from one of those shipping stores that also acts as a consignment shop for people who want to sell their "stuff" on eBay but -

• don't know how to list and don't want to know
• don't want to answer questions
• can't use a camera to take the pictures
• don't want to haul the stuff to a shipper

The postal store takes care of everything and charges a flat fee plus shipping costs.

Ann

 

[bltfam]

its really not that difficult to do When i started selling items I just looked up similar items and how they described it take a few pictures and with paypal its so easy not waiting for a check to clear for money order to arrive
I did under charge a few items on shipping. I guess i could look at some realistate companies in town to see who might handle the paperwork.

 

[BocaBum99]

Certainly seems doable. There is a similar model out there for "stuff". I live a few miles from one of those shipping stores that also acts as a consignment shop for people who want to sell their "stuff" on eBay but -

• don't know how to list and don't want to know
• don't want to answer questions
• can't use a camera to take the pictures
• don't want to haul the stuff to a shipper

The postal store takes care of everything and charges a flat fee plus shipping costs.

Ann

Consignment stores usually take a percentage of the sale. If you do that for real estate, it would be unlicensed real estate activity. Note that eBay charges a flat fee of $35 for insertion and $35 final value fee for Real Estate auctions. That is so they aren't construed as supporting unlicensed activity. Also, they put a disclosure that says that an auction is not legally binding since real estate laws govern the transaction.

In Florida, for instance, there is a recission period for both retail and resale timeshares. It cannot be a binding contract if the owner, the seller, or the timeshare resides in Florida and are not offered irrevocable recission language.

 

[DaveNV]

Okay, then let's say somebody (not me, at least not yet), runs a service on eBay where they list the ts for sale for a flat fee, (say $100, paid in advance via PayPal.) Service company tells seller what information is needed to do the sale. Seller provides the service company the ts information. Auction ensues. Winning bidder pays seller via PayPal, and is handed over to the prearranged closing company. Closing company handles all the paperwork to transfer title direct from seller to buyer, and is paid by buyer or seller.

The eBay service company has earned the flat fee of $100 for producing the listing, and running the auction on behalf of the seller. The rest is between the closing company, and the buyer & seller.

Now $100 doesn't sound like much for doing this service, but if it was computerized, standardized, and all handled electronically, it would be worthwhile. Run a couple of dozen auctions at a time, say for one week each, and it could turn into a pretty lucrative business.

Could the seller do it themselves? Certainly. But not everyone wants to deal with it. They'd rather pay a reasonable fee to someone who knows what they're doing to get the seller together with a buyer.

Hmm. This sounds better to me all the time. I may have to rethink whether I could handle doing this sort of thing right now. (Workload is pretty serious.) There must be thousands of timeshare owners who want to get out of them, but that don't want to get screwed over in the process by a PCC, or pay a huge brokerage commission to a "real" real estate company.

Dave

 

[PerryM]

How to do this right!

If you want to sell timeshares and not go thru the hassle of becoming a real estate broker sell WM credits.

You can buy WM credits from folks and get it into your name in just weeks – costs $150 to do so. Once you’ve done that you can resell YOUR accounts all you want.

WM is, to me, THE best exchanger on the planet in II or RCI. You can pick a large city and run a billboard with a web name like “BuyMyCredits.com” and folks will make contact with you. Sell the WM credits via the web site and allow PayPal and Visa and MasterCard to buy 6k accounts and then rent them credits from your other accounts.

I see billboards for timeshare companies all around St. Louis right now.

You could be up and running in 1 month – the web site, the billboards, the accounts.

If it were me I’d get some “Sandwich Boards” made that say:

“Buy my WM credits for 1/2 the price!”​

Put your web site and phone number on it.

Hire some folks who stand around with these signs and park them around Wyndham sales offices around the country and you will get a lot of attention. These guys stand on the sidewalk right in front of the offices while the sales office is open. (Folks do this in St. Louis all the time)

Good luck, and you're welcome.

P.S.
HalfPriceWMcredits.com is available – that’s a great name.

BuyMyWMcredits.com is///was available too. (I liked this name so much that I just now reserved it)

P.P.S.
You could also just buy a used white van and print the slogan on it and park it in the morning in front of the Wyndham sales office and pick it up at night. Hire some kid to do this for you. I'd make sure you have AAA insurance since flat tires and vandalism would be expected.

You could buy a used "Roach Coach" and paint your advertisement on it and flip open the side flaps and serve free hot coffee - have sales brochures ready to hand out.

Just like Oscar Mayer has the Wienermobile you could have the WMmobile and maybe get a news crew out there for free publicity.

 

[BocaBum99]

Okay, then let's say somebody (not me, at least not yet), runs a service on eBay where they list the ts for sale for a flat fee, (say $100, paid in advance via PayPal.) Service company tells seller what information is needed to do the sale. Seller provides the service company the ts information. Auction ensues. Winning bidder pays seller via PayPal, and is handed over to the prearranged closing company. Closing company handles all the paperwork to transfer title direct from seller to buyer, and is paid by buyer or seller.

The eBay service company has earned the flat fee of $100 for producing the listing, and running the auction on behalf of the seller. The rest is between the closing company, and the buyer & seller.

Now $100 doesn't sound like much for doing this service, but if it was computerized, standardized, and all handled electronically, it would be worthwhile. Run a couple of dozen auctions at a time, say for one week each, and it could turn into a pretty lucrative business.

Could the seller do it themselves? Certainly. But not everyone wants to deal with it. They'd rather pay a reasonable fee to someone who knows what they're doing to get the seller together with a buyer.

Hmm. This sounds better to me all the time. I may have to rethink whether I could handle doing this sort of thing right now. (Workload is pretty serious.) There must be thousands of timeshare owners who want to get out of them, but that don't want to get screwed over in the process by a PCC, or pay a huge brokerage commission to a "real" real estate company.

Dave

Dave,

Yes. You can do it, legally. But, you will end up having a very bad seller rating or you will be doing a lot more verifying of ownerships than you are currently anticipating because most owners have no clue about what they own, how much their maintenance fee bills are and how to use, sell or transfer their timeshare. You will inevitably have wrong data in your ads and even though it is the seller's fault, you will be held accountable by the buyer for accurate information.

You will need an estoppel process and you will need to have rudimentary knowledge of the timeshare you auction. If you don't, you will run into a boatload of customer service issues.

I would not offer such a service for $100, it would be too much work and not worth it. Creating an eBay ad for use on someone else's eBay account would be worth it. But, I would NEVER do that on my own eBay account and risk my seller rating for such a small amount.

You really need to make a minimum of $500-1000 per transaction in order for this idea to pay off and make economic sense. If you want to be anything more than just an eBay action html programmer, then you need to offer more services. I would hook up with a closing company and charge $100 for the eBay ad, $70 for the auction and $500 for the closing. I would probably also take 10-15% of the transaction by getting a real estate license. I'd have to work through the numbers to see if it could work.

 

[DaveNV]

I would not offer such a service for $100, it would be too much work and not worth it. Creating an eBay ad for use on someone else's eBay account would be worth it. But, I would NEVER do that on my own eBay account and risk my seller rating for such a small amount.

Ok. That makes a whole lot of sense, too. I appreciate the candid advice.

Obviously, this whole idea needs to be fleshed out and explored, especially including prices charged, legal requirements, and so forth. And I also realize as soon as the perfect eBay ad is designed, it would be replicated by a dozen other sellers, and before long, the ad page would look just like the composite PCC ads already all over eBay. (My last eBay purchase was from a private seller who had copied a PCC ad page to save time. I knew the page well, had seen it a dozen times, and it even had some overlooked embedded email links to the PCC company. It wasn't till the end of the auction that I found out I was NOT buying from a PCC.)

It's not a perfect model, but it still sems like a good idea, if the right spin could be put on it to make it affordable. I know I'd certainly like to be able to contact a registered eBay seller offering this service, and say, "Here, I own this week at this resort I want to sell. I'll pay you $XXX dollars to handle the auction for me."

Or maybe I'll get a real estate license and do it the hard way. I've always wanted to sell real estate...

Dave