Insight into MVC Sales Practices**

[davidvel]

** Note: This thread is about the allegations of MVC sales practices and procedures, and not the underlying claims of discrimination in the recent EEOC lawsuit. If you would like to discuss that, please see this thread. Your courtesy in not discussing those issues here is appreciated.

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Some interesting tidbits in the allegations of this lawsuit. A few highlights:

27. One role, the “First Time Buyer Line,” involves selling timeshare
ownership to prospective buyers that have never owned a timeshare with Defendants.
28. The second role is the “Owner Line,” which is selling additional
timeshares to existing owners.
31. Sales executives are paid a base salary and commission based on the
number of timeshares they sell.
32. Base salary is usually minimum wage, and sales executives make most of
their earnings through commissions.
33. Defendants have a practice of placing sales executives on “overage” to
reprimand employees.
34. Opportunity to earn commission is lower for sales executives placed on
overage because they give tours to non-qualified potential buyers, such as those who
do not have financial pre-approval.
35. If a sales executive is assigned overage, there is a likelihood he or she will
not give any customers a tour for their entire shift, thus having no potential for sales.

 

[Dean]

Sounds pretty normal for a commission based high pressure sales system. Historically there has been the chance for those good at selling for making well over $200K though I haven't seen any data since Covid.

 

[DanCali]

It's no wonder sales people get frustrated when they realize after less than 5 minutes the "prospect" will never buy and they have to keep up the show for another 90 minutes.

The incentive of the "concierge" to get people in there no matter who they are is too often out of sync with what the salesperson would want.

 

[Dean]

It's no wonder sales people get frustrated when they realize after less than 5 minutes the "prospect" will never buy and they have to keep up the show for another 90 minutes.

The incentive of the "concierge" to get people in there no matter who they are is too often out of sync with what the salesperson would want.

IMO it is broken with different team members have dramatically different goals and incentives. I've long said that the system should weed out prospects on the front end rather than the back end. The only time they do this that come to mind is when someone doesn't qualify based on having a recent sales presentation, recent purchase or lacks financial qualifications. Even worse is when people show up for their presentation and are turned away with the explanation they don't meet qualifications and not given their incentive.

 

[wuv pooh]

It's no wonder sales people get frustrated when they realize after less than 5 minutes the "prospect" will never buy and they have to keep up the show for another 90 minutes.

The incentive of the "concierge" to get people in there no matter who they are is too often out of sync with what the salesperson would want.

That's my biggest beef. Appointment schedulers get paid to get you in the seat and the decent salespeople are trying to see as many good prospects as they can and I just want to get paid. I usually know more than the salesperson, but you run into some very good people who know the system sometimes and can learn something. Lately I have been looking at my schedule and just making an offer. If I have time I tell them I will come for $350 cash, if not I ask for $400 cash. I have received $350 multiple times, but $400 seems a bridge too far. Incentives have been great for the 40th anniversary - got over $1,000 last year. Interested to see if the gravy train keeps up.

Sales was a great career 25 years ago. You could make easy money by selling lockoffs and teaching people how to split into 2 II deposits and get a bonus week - so 3 weeks for one maintenance fee plus II. No deception or pressure required. You just laid it out and made the sales. Best people made a ton of money. Trying to sell points, not so much.

 

[SueDonJ]

I don't know if it's illegal but it makes sense to me that there are different tiers among the sales staff and that good employees get the best gigs - and I know my opinion might mean diddly-squat here. As often as the sales reps get aggravated that customers are wasting their time by committing to the 90 minutes knowing they're not going to buy, other customers get aggravated that their time is wasted because some sales outfits are determined to go over the 90 minutes. The entire process is and always has been fraught with negativity and I don't expect this lawsuit to change that reality.

Don and I recently sat for a presentation, our first in ages and ages, at Lakeshore Reserve during a stay at Cypress Harbour. To each his own but we just don't like them. We didn't have a choice, though, because a sales presentation was a condition for using Abound Points for resort/ticket credits. (Any time we've used credits it's stated on the receipt but this is the first time they've held us to it.) I sat down saying immediately, "look at our account - we have no need for more, no intention to buy more, but anything you can tell me that's new will be appreciated. Also, we'd love to take a look at a unit because everybody says that Lakeshore Reserve is beautiful. She immediately asked why we were there, I said it was a requirement, she said she didn't know that, and so for 90 minutes we each shared what we knew. She was a real nice person who seemed to know her stuff but we weren't allowed to see a unit even though the guests we talked to while walking around said it wasn't full - punishment, I guess. My one takeaway was that I hoped what she said about using Abound Points for direct hotel bookings would actually happen, and the latest earnings call appears to confirm it will.

[eta] corrected Harbour Lake to Lakeshore Reserve

 

[jmhpsu93]

We didn't have a choice, though, because a sales presentation was a condition for using Abound Points for resort/ticket credits. (Any time we've used credits it's stated on the receipt but this is the first time they've held us to it.)

We've applied Abound points to resort credit roughly a dozen times, including in March at Cypress Harbour. I've never heard of the presentation requirement.

 

[dioxide45]

We've applied Abound points to resort credit roughly a dozen, including in March at Cypress Harbour. I've never heard of the presentation requirement.

There is another option to use Club Points for attraction tickets. I think you converted to resort credit then used the credit for tickets. These seem to be different things. Though the ticket credit is the same value as Resort Credit at 325 points for $100 in credit. I don't see anything on the website about a requirement to tour like you see for Owner Events.

 

[SueDonJ]

At Cypress Harbour we used Abound Points for Universal tickets, and at Barony we've used Abound Points for SERG restaurant credits. They hand you all these weird print-outs that look like larger sales slips. At Barony I noticed the stated requirement on one of them and asked did we really have to do it and the concierge agreed to not schedule it, but at Cypress Harbour they would have cancelled the transaction if we refused. Considering that the whole package of incentives we got at Cypress Harbour included a VISA card, a restaurant gift card and free apps at other restaurants and an attractive bounce-back offer (that'll go unused,) it wasn't something worth fighting about.

I don't remember ever seeing it stated anywhere else.

 

[DanCali]

There is another option to use Club Points for attraction tickets. I think you converted to resort credit then used the credit for tickets. These seem to be different things. Though the ticket credit is the same value as Resort Credit at 325 points for $100 in credit. I don't see anything on the website about a requirement to tour like you see for Owner Events.
View attachment 110250

At that value of $0.34 per point I'd feel like I'm paying them to sit in a presentation!

 

[daviator]

I don't know if it's illegal but it makes sense to me that there are different tiers among the sales staff and that good employees get the best gigs - and I know my opinion might mean diddly-squat here. As often as the sales reps get aggravated that customers are wasting their time by committing to the 90 minutes knowing they're not going to buy, other customers get aggravated that their time is wasted because some sales outfits are determined to go over the 90 minutes. The entire process is and always has been fraught with negativity and I don't expect this lawsuit to change that reality.

Don and I recently sat for a presentation, our first in ages and ages, at Lakeshore Reserve during a stay at Cypress Harbour. To each his own but we just don't like them. We didn't have a choice, though, because a sales presentation was a condition for using Abound Points for resort/ticket credits. (Any time we've used credits it's stated on the receipt but this is the first time they've held us to it.) I sat down saying immediately, "look at our account - we have no need for more, no intention to buy more, but anything you can tell me that's new will be appreciated. Also, we'd love to take a look at a unit because everybody says that Lakeshore Reserve is beautiful. She immediately asked why we were there, I said it was a requirement, she said she didn't know that, and so for 90 minutes we each shared what we knew. She was a real nice person who seemed to know her stuff but we weren't allowed to see a unit even though the guests we talked to while walking around said it wasn't full - punishment, I guess. My one takeaway was that I hoped what she said about using Abound Points for direct hotel bookings would actually happen, and the latest earnings call appears to confirm it will.

[eta] corrected Harbour Lake to Lakeshore Reserve

That's interesting. I've never used Abound points for resort credit, but I've used Vistana StarOptions for resort credit a number of times, and there is no requirement to sit through a presentation. If this is something new they've added, it basically takes all the value out of the resort credit option. After all, you could have gotten something like $200-250 incentive for going to that same presentation, which is probably more than the resort credit you received.

I hope MVC is not implementing this systemwide.

 

[davidvel]

At Cypress Harbour we used Abound Points for Universal tickets, and at Barony we've used Abound Points for SERG restaurant credits. They hand you all these weird print-outs that look like larger sales slips. At Barony I noticed the stated requirement on one of them and asked did we really have to do it and the concierge agreed to not schedule it, but at Cypress Harbour they would have cancelled the transaction if we refused. Considering that the whole package of incentives we got at Cypress Harbour included a VISA card, a restaurant gift card and free apps at other restaurants and an attractive bounce-back offer (that'll go unused,) it wasn't something worth fighting about.

I don't remember ever seeing it stated anywhere else.

I think you are combining 2 things into 1. Sounds like you used resort credit for the Universal Ticket credit as dioxide shows. But the "the whole package of incentives [you] got at Cypress Harbour included a VISA card, a restaurant gift card," which have nothing to do with the ticket credits.

From the looks of it VISA and restaurant gift cards are typical presentation incentives. So they signed you up for a presentation in exchange for them, which was a wholly separate transaction than the ticket credits you bought with points.

 

[SueDonJ]

That's interesting. I've never used Abound points for resort credit, but I've used Vistana StarOptions for resort credit a number of times, and there is no requirement to sit through a presentation. If this is something new they've added, it basically takes all the value out of the resort credit option. After all, you could have gotten something like $200-250 incentive for going to that same presentation, which is probably more than the resort credit you received.

I hope MVC is not implementing this systemwide.

I think you are combining 2 things into 1. Sounds like you used resort credit for the Universal Ticket credit as dioxide shows. But the "the whole package of incentives [you] got at Cypress Harbour included a VISA card, a restaurant gift card," which have nothing to do with the ticket credits.

From the looks of it VISA and restaurant gift cards are typical presentation incentives. So they signed you up for a presentation in exchange for them, which was a wholly separate transaction than the ticket credits you bought with points.

The Barony SERG restaurant thing was many, many months ago; Cypress Harbour Universal tickets thing just a few months ago. Both were something completely different than the “Resort Credit” that can be applied to charges at the resorts (even though the points cost is the same metric.) I don’t expect that it will become a regular thing with the basic resort credits.

It was me who noticed the blurb on the receipt about a required presentation at the Barony transaction, the one that the concierge waived. I didn’t mention it during the Cypress Harbour transaction because I hoped we’d duck under that radar, but the rep mentioned it first and then piled on the usual presentation incentives when we balked. I got the impression that they maybe thought the regular incentives didn’t have to be offered.

But of course, I could be wrong about all of this.

 

[dioxide45]

The Barony SERG restaurant thing was many, many months ago; Cypress Harbour Universal tickets thing just a few months ago. Both were something completely different than the “Resort Credit” that can be applied to charges at the resorts (even though the points cost is the same metric.) I don’t expect that it will become a regular thing with the basic resort credits.

It was me who noticed the blurb on the receipt about a required presentation at the Barony transaction, the one that the concierge waived. I didn’t mention it during the Cypress Harbour transaction because I hoped we’d duck under that radar, but the rep mentioned it first and then piled on the usual presentation incentives when we balked. I got the impression that they maybe thought the regular incentives didn’t have to be offered.

But of course, I could be wrong about all of this.

I wonder if that is standard verbiage that prints at the bottom of all those slips, even if it shouldn't apply?

 

[davidvel]

The Barony SERG restaurant thing was many, many months ago; Cypress Harbour Universal tickets thing just a few months ago. Both were something completely different than the “Resort Credit” that can be applied to charges at the resorts (even though the points cost is the same metric.) I don’t expect that it will become a regular thing with the basic resort credits.

It was me who noticed the blurb on the receipt about a required presentation at the Barony transaction, the one that the concierge waived. I didn’t mention it during the Cypress Harbour transaction because I hoped we’d duck under that radar, but the rep mentioned it first and then piled on the usual presentation incentives when we balked. I got the impression that they maybe thought the regular incentives didn’t have to be offered.

But of course, I could be wrong about all of this.

Well, you know if a concierge's (err body snatcher) lips are moving. Like dioxide, I cannot find any reference to buying ticket credit with Abound points requires a presentation.

ETA: My guess is they were either misinformed, or the opposite: very good at their job!

 

[SueDonJ]

I’m in Massachusetts and all the paperwork is at Hilton Head. We haven’t used up all the SERG cards yet so if I have the receipt still I’ll copy it here when I get back there in a few weeks.

 

[rthib]

I’m in Massachusetts and all the paperwork is at Hilton Head. We haven’t used up all the SERG cards yet so if I have the receipt still I’ll copy it here when I get back there in a few weeks.

I think others are right that the language on there is standard language for incentives and the concierge either doesn't know the difference or assumes you don't know the difference.
There is nothing in the T&C on Resort Credit that list any requirements.

 

[jellen613]

It's no wonder sales people get frustrated when they realize after less than 5 minutes the "prospect" will never buy and they have to keep up the show for another 90 minutes.

The incentive of the "concierge" to get people in there no matter who they are is too often out of sync with what the salesperson would want.

Our last sales presentation, she gave us the option to walk out pretty quickly when she realized we likely were not going to buy. She was very professional (probably the most professional sales person we have seen in years). Our curiosity was piqued when she discussed giving us the price point from April 2019, when we had purchased more points to get to executive, and then had rescinded. We did not buy this time (no plans to expand our current portfolio). We did buy an encore, so we will be sitting through at least one more sales pitch. We usually say upfront that we are very unlikely to buy more points.

 

[davidvel]

Does anyone know if a salesperson knows you are on an encore, or other required presentation?

 

[dioxide45]

Does anyone know if a salesperson knows you are on an encore, or other required presentation?

I believe they do. They always know if we had an open Encore.

 

[jp10558]

If I could convince the sales people to let me go early, that'd be grand. So far HGVC and Wyndham still keep me there the whole time. I wonder if I can get away with just reading on my phone?

 

[bazzap]

I don't know if it's illegal but it makes sense to me that there are different tiers among the sales staff and that good employees get the best gigs - and I know my opinion might mean diddly-squat here. As often as the sales reps get aggravated that customers are wasting their time by committing to the 90 minutes knowing they're not going to buy, other customers get aggravated that their time is wasted because some sales outfits are determined to go over the 90 minutes. The entire process is and always has been fraught with negativity and I don't expect this lawsuit to change that reality.

Don and I recently sat for a presentation, our first in ages and ages, at Lakeshore Reserve during a stay at Cypress Harbour. To each his own but we just don't like them. We didn't have a choice, though, because a sales presentation was a condition for using Abound Points for resort/ticket credits. (Any time we've used credits it's stated on the receipt but this is the first time they've held us to it.) I sat down saying immediately, "look at our account - we have no need for more, no intention to buy more, but anything you can tell me that's new will be appreciated. Also, we'd love to take a look at a unit because everybody says that Lakeshore Reserve is beautiful. She immediately asked why we were there, I said it was a requirement, she said she didn't know that, and so for 90 minutes we each shared what we knew. She was a real nice person who seemed to know her stuff but we weren't allowed to see a unit even though the guests we talked to while walking around said it wasn't full - punishment, I guess. My one takeaway was that I hoped what she said about using Abound Points for direct hotel bookings would actually happen, and the latest earnings call appears to confirm it will.

[eta] corrected Harbour Lake to Lakeshore Reserve

We have used Abound Points (enrolled Weeks elected) for Resort Credits a number of times at several MVC resorts.
I have just checked the Ts & Cs we signed for these and there is no reference to attending a sales presentation?

 

[frank808]

If I could convince the sales people to let me go early, that'd be grand. So far HGVC and Wyndham still keep me there the whole time. I wonder if I can get away with just reading on my phone?

I do when the salesperson realizes I am not buying anything. Then excuse themselves for something or explain that I have to be there for the 60/90 minutes to get incentive. I just pull put my phone and start surfing.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

 

[jellen613]

I do when the salesperson realizes I am not buying anything. Then excuse themselves for something or explain that I have to be there for the 60/90 minutes to get incentive. I just pull put my phone and start surfing.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

I am realizing that I have never dealt with an unpleasant sales person. I am up front that I am not interested in buying more, they do their spiel, or send the manager/closer in. We have pleasant banter, they understand I am there for the bonuses, cash or points. I have not ever been there longer than 90 minutes. For me its easy money/points. I see people comment about how their spouse gets upset or wound up by the "sales pitch". Mine does not, we are both pretty even tempered.

 

[ljmiii]

Does anyone know if a salesperson knows you are on an encore, or other required presentation?

They have access to that information...whether or not they bother to look it up depends on the salesrep.

Our exit guy at WSJ was *very* annoyed that the salesrep hadn't told him he couldn't sell us another encore package.