Impact of Disney’s DAS denial on DVC ownership & use?

[DianeG]

I belong to a couple of FB groups that discuss disability accommodations at the Disney parks. The more recent changes to DAS have caused a dramatic increase in very inconsistent and unjust denials of DAS. Because of Disney’s past disabled-friendly policies, many families bought into DVC. However, several DVC owners are now reporting being denied DAS for their family members - after previously been approved in the past - and that this is severely affecting their vacation plans. Many are stating that they will now be selling their DVC memberships as a result. Is a DAS denial, or the prospect of one, affecting your vacation or how you use your DVC ownership?

 

[noreenkate]

I belong to a couple of FB groups that discuss disability accommodations at the Disney parks. The more recent changes to DAS have caused a dramatic increase in very inconsistent and unjust denials of DAS. Because of Disney’s past disabled-friendly policies, many families bought into DVC. However, several DVC owners are now reporting being denied DAS for their family members - after previously been approved in the past - and that this is severely affecting their vacation plans. Many are stating that they will now be selling their DVC memberships as a result. Is a DAS denial, or the prospect of one, affecting your vacation or how you use your DVC ownership?

Apologies upfront but this is something that hits home- so if my rant is too wordy scroll on past.

Disney parks, hotels, cruises IMO are now ADA compliant, bare minimums and a lot less accessible friendly. In the last several years,what I have experienced between CM and other guests have pretty much soured my family on the parks. My adult kids have given up their APs -
Not so much DAS effecting my DVC membership, even after the last set of changes I was approved for DAS. To be honest if I find myself heading over to MK in the near future I would probably purchase the lighting lane premier over DAS. As far as line accommodations went I didn’t need then until Virtual Queues & Genie + started. I couldn’t and still can’t cross the park in a timely fashion. ECVs are not a solution for everyone.
What has changed for us, as far as not going in general is Disney’s change in attitude as far as disabilities in general. As far as DVC my home resort is OKW- stairs since my accident are an issue…MS has been very clear that ground floor accommodations cannot be guaranteed. So that puts me into an even smaller group of potential Florida- accessible rooms.
This particular video IMO highlights exactly how DVC has changed as far as accessible rooms go - the fact there are 36 tower studios and only 1 accessible unit that isn’t even equipped with a roll in shower or transfer bench blows my mind especially because mouskeeping doesn’t know the difference between equipment they are responsible for delivering…
Don’t even get me started on being told I cannot participate in DVC paid resort activities such as the yoga offerings ect

Now I understand these issues do not affect all owners and fully aware my disability is my responsibility but I am finding it way more challenging than previous trips.

 

[TolmiePeak]

Das changes will have little to no impact on DVC.

 

[Dean]

Das changes will have little to no impact on DVC.

But it might have an impact on a member who was counting on DAS for their park usage. As I understand it, DAS was never intended to be a broad program for disabilities in general (esp not mobility, Psychiatric or GI issues) but more for Autism and similar situations. It seems the major change was more one of enforcement and eliminating same day access. No doubt it was widely abused. Still, I understand it sucks if it was previously available (even if it wasn't supposed to be) and now it's not.

 

[jp10558]

Now I understand these issues do not affect all owners and fully aware my disability is my responsibility but I am finding it way more challenging than previous trips.

You are really giving them / others too much leeway here. Disabled people are still people, and should be able to get accommodations, especially in very large post 1990s built / refurb areas. There's no excuse. While I'm still lucky to not have any mobility impacting disability - I have had times in my life when that wasn't the case - I've broken my ankle, I've had other surgeries, etc. I was lucky and recovered completely, but I also know as you age mobility in general gets harder forget about accidents etc. So anyone claiming "these issues don't affect all owners so I shouldn't care" is being shortsighted AT BEST.

IDK about what DAS is, but in terms of your post on the rooms not having accessible showers etc - this is crazy that people are OK with that.

 

[nomoretslt]

It is unfortunate that abuse of the DAS system required Disney to do an overhaul. last I heard they still don’t require a doctors form to be submitted. Disney needs to do a better job of enforcement of their rules that are in place across the board. I think part of the problem is park goers being confrontational with the CM’s. We went thru the process of trying to obtain one after DH‘s surgery (was going to rent an ECV). We did not qualify. We were told Most ride queues are now wide enough to accommodate wheelchairs and ECVs (Tru, as I’ve seen this first hand)

I wasn’t able to watch the you tube video of the tower room at the Riviera. If a required piece of equipment wasn’t there, did they call housekeeping?

And there are 24 tower rooms, not 36 (according to literature I’ve seen). I’ve personally stayed in one a few times with DH, but only for one night. They are hard to get, even if you own there. It’s good for a Friday or Saturday evening arrival when the bulk of your stay is in a one bedroom…..saves a few points. After the last stay we decided to go for a studio for the one night Going forward. When the bed is pulled down, there is barely room to move about the room. The bathroom is large as is the walk in shower. There is no little sink in the room to wash out your utensils or plates and I don’t like using the bathroom sink for that. There is a mini fridge/cooler and a microwave.

The thought of these tower rooms was for younger people who have no desire to prepare their meals…..they enjoy the festivals at Epcot, eat at the parks or do resort dining or food delivery. The new Polynesian Tower also has similar tower rooms so I guess it’s a hit.

When we get too old to enjoy the parks ( not quite there yet, but we definitely have slowed down) I will just use my points to enjoy the resorts or use my points to take the other kind of trips offered (yes I know not a good use of my points).

I don’t think the new DAS rules will affect any future sales of DVC. Can’t comment on those that purchased DVC because of Disney Parks previous DAS rules. As we’ve been told many times, your purchased a timeshare that happens to be in the middle of WDW.

 

[Dean]

I don’t think the new DAS rules will affect any future sales of DVC. Can’t comment on those that purchased DVC because of Disney Parks previous DAS rules. As we’ve been told many times, your purchased a timeshare that happens to be in the middle of WDW.

It's unlikely to affect sales. Every change has an impact and while such a change may have a positive or neutral affect on most, someone is always affected negatively. I can't count the number of times I've seen people complain and threaten to sell or state the sales would tank but we haven't seen the latter so far and few actually sell out though if they do the only impact to DVC or DVD is the possibly off of an additional retail sale which might or might not have occurred. Then there are threats of complaining, boycotts and class action none of which occur do to there issues. What we ALL need to realize in timesharing is that all we should count on is what is contractual in the legal documents, everything else is gravy. That means we need to actually understand it and never take the word of a salesperson or even a single employee without some type of confirmation. Even then things can change at times. IMO timesharing needs to work even for most negative scenarios. Unfortunately for many they look at the current situation or best case scenario and use that to justify a marginal purchase.

 

[rickandcindy23]

We have a friend who has a Down's Syndrome adult she cares for 100% of the time and is in a wheelchair. She was denied DAS twice, then a third person finally said they had to see the adult, she put Janelle on the video, and then they did allow her to use DAS. It was a pretty major turnoff for everyone who hears the story of how ridiculous the process has become.

 

[Dean]

We have a friend who has a Down's Syndrome adult she cares for 100% of the time and is in a wheelchair. She was denied DAS twice, then a third person finally said they had to see the adult, she put Janelle on the video, and then they did allow her to use DAS. It was a pretty major turnoff for everyone who hears the story of how ridiculous the process has become.

Seeing the affected person to approve is pretty standard from what I've seen lately. That was the case for my grandson who has Autism. I would not expect them to approve based on a discussion of the issue without seeing the affected situation if that's what you're saying. Severly affected Down's should qualify based on my understanding of the rules. I could see them denying a more functional Down's individual.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Seeing the affected person to approve is pretty standard from what I've seen lately. That was the case for my grandson who has Autism. I would not expect them to approve based on a discussion of the issue without seeing the affected situation if that's what you're saying. Severly affected Down's should qualify based on my understanding of the rules. I could see them denying a more functional Down's individual.

How did an autistic child look different from any other child? I taught in public schools and had two autistic kids who were not outwardly autistic to look at them. Now Disney is deciding who looks autistic and who doesn't? That's discriminatory and prejudicial.

 

[nomoretslt]

Seeing the affected person to approve is pretty standard from what I've seen lately. That was the case for my grandson who has Autism. I would not expect them to approve based on a discussion of the issue without seeing the affected situation if that's what you're saying. Severly affected Down's should qualify based on my understanding of the rules. I could see them denying a more functional Down's individual.

Of course the person providing a DAS pass should have interaction with the individual. This helps prevent the aforementioned fraud. The fact that it can be done via zoom, similar to tele-med appointments is a great thing. You can make arrangements before your trip. Otherwise you have to go to guest services at the park. Same with my DH when we tried to qualify. He hates doing anything like zoom and I initiated the call. I gave her the preliminary info but then she had to see/speak with DH. I’m glad your grandson was accommodated.

 

[noreenkate]

I wasn’t able to watch the you tube video of the tower room at the Riviera. If a required piece of equipment wasn’t there, did they call housekeeping?

So Disney has a guest with disabilities service for hotel/villa guests- so the process for DVC is generally make your reservation either online or through MS and then email over with confirmation number. Depending on what is needed - in the video it was a transfer bench for the shower- guest services than arranges with mousekeeping for delivery to the room. The problem in the video was they delivered a commode…

i have only used the service one time probably close to a decade ago and itwas pretty much Disney’s idea. I had no idea that they offered stuff. i had a trip planned before my accident and got realeased from skilled nursing facility about 6 weeks before, I needed my happy place so I didn’t cancel. When I called to get an address to have stuff down shipped they transferred me and Disney had the majority of what I needed.

Putting it here incase anyone needs it disability.services@disneyparks.com

Personally I haven’t stayed in any of the tower/duo or whatever they are calling the tiny rooms yet and have no urge to - just not my thing, i know most DVCers love a studio me I prefer the space of a 1bdr.

 

[nomoretslt]

@noreenkate … how can a commode be confused with a transfer seat? Not surprised unfortunately. I’ve recently had a few housekeeping issues too. Very frustrating. At BWV, they have around 80 daytime housekeeping staff; but at night (when issues are discovered) they have 2 plus a supervisor.

Another little known tip…if you have a state issued handicapped parking permit (license plate or hanging placard) you can get free valet parking at the resorts. Last I checked, you didn’t have to be staying at that particular resort, but had to be a registered guest on property. I always email disability services before my trip to see if the policy has changed. I contact them thru the link you provided.

 

[noreenkate]

@noreenkate … how can a commode be confused with a transfer seat? Not surprised unfortunately. I’ve recently had a few housekeeping issues too. Very frustrating. At BWV, they have around 80 daytime housekeeping staff; but at night (when issues are discovered) they have 2 plus a supervisor.

Another little known tip…if you have a state issued handicapped parking permit (license plate or hanging placard) you can get free valet parking at the resorts. Last I checked, you didn’t have to be staying at that particular resort, but had to be a registered guest on property. I always email disability services before my trip to see if the policy has changed. I contact them thru the link you provided.

lol unless it’s Contemporary parking jeez even with dining reservations and and a plaque I haven’t been able to get past the security gate.

 

[Dean]

How did an autistic child look different from any other child? I taught in public schools and had two autistic kids who were not outwardly autistic to look at them. Now Disney is deciding who looks autistic and who doesn't? That's discriminatory and prejudicial.

Not arguing that point, just pointing out that visual seems to be part of the requirement for approval. DAS is intended to be a a very limited and specialized program from what I can tell simply for those with some type of intellectual disability. It's likely partly for the benefit of others in the line as much as it is for the family themselves.

Of course the person providing a DAS pass should have interaction with the individual. This helps prevent the aforementioned fraud. The fact that it can be done via zoom, similar to tele-med appointments is a great thing. You can make arrangements before your trip. Otherwise you have to go to guest services at the park. Same with my DH when we tried to qualify. He hates doing anything like zoom and I initiated the call. I gave her the preliminary info but then she had to see/speak with DH. I’m glad your grandson was accommodated.

It is my understanding that it can no longer be done at the park on the day of admission.

 

[noreenkate]

Not arguing that point, just pointing out that visual seems to be part of the requirement for approval. DAS is intended to be a a very limited and specialized program from what I can tell simply for those with some type of intellectual disability. It's likely partly for the benefit of others in the line as much as it is for the family themselves.

It is my understanding that it can no longer be done at the park on the day of admission.

sort of- it can be done at park day of but it’s still a video call…it’s just not handled by regular guest services…

 

[DianeG]

What doesn’t make sense is that they do NOT require medical documentation of any kind. Discussion of a medical diagnosis during the approval process is a often a negative factor.
“Eyeballing” may be fine to verify identity, but certainly isn’t reliable to determine disability or an adult or child’s degree of functionality - esp since the targeted DAS individuals often either display mutism, or “I don’t know” type of answers, or simply mask.

How did an autistic child look different from any other child? I taught in public schools and had two autistic kids who were not outwardly autistic to look at them. Now Disney is deciding who looks autistic and who doesn't? That's discriminatory and prejudicial.

 

[Dean]

How did an autistic child look different from any other child? I taught in public schools and had two autistic kids who were not outwardly autistic to look at them. Now Disney is deciding who looks autistic and who doesn't? That's discriminatory and prejudicial.

Let me circle back to this. I see them every day, probably have 100 kids or more in my practice who have some level of Autism or other developmental delay. From what I'm reading it's intended to be a very selective program and that having Autism isn't automatically a qualifying diagnosis. It will likely be a portion of those with more severe Autism that qualify. It's not going to be a perfect system, there will be some that truly should have been approved that are not and the reverse. Regardless being present for the interview and having camera access are requirements to be considered. Given the level of abuse the system was seeing, something needed to change. And while some might argue the changes were inappropriate, I can guarantee that any system any of us could come up with would not be perfect either. Given the stated goal, the choices seem reasonable. I suspect we'll see some changes over time.

 

[elaine]

I think a middle ground should have been attempted 1st. DAS pass good for disabled persons and 1 caregiver--not a "family" of 8, which included extended family. Not perfect, but I bet it would have cut down on abuse.
As for DVC--the current "pay more $ to be able to ride even basic rides without waiting in long lines" has very much soured us on WDW. We'll be selling our DVC within 5 years. It was a great run (DVC and 10 RCI trades into DVC). But, with tickets $150+/day and then an added $30+ it's just too much of a money grab for us at this point. A 5 day Disney cruise was less than going to WDW.

 

[Soccer Canada]

Given the level of abuse the system was seeing, something needed to change. And while some might argue the changes were inappropriate, I can guarantee that any system any of us could come up with would not be perfect either. Given the stated goal, the choices seem reasonable. I suspect we'll see some changes over time.

This is 100% the issue right here. And what generally happens when you have had a system that has been grossly broken for quite some time (going back to the days where there were "tour" guides that would attach you to their DAS and get paid to accompany you). You go off the deep end the other way and limit it too much. When we attended a couple after hours parties that were up charge events, there were DAS folks literally going on an attraction, turning around, going back through the Lightning Lane Line (DAS) and riding multiple times as we sat in line and watched. One of the many upon many times I have seen this system abused in the past. I have absolutely no issues with there being accommodations for those that truly needed it and there should be, but I believe that possibly those (not all) that were/are making the most noise about this are those that likely didn't need this consideration, they were folks avoiding the paid upcharge of Genie +/Lightning Lane. This is also why I think they took this out of the hands of normal guest services because Disney knew the reality of what was going on. There will be changes as they get control of this, but of course they will not be immediate. For heavens sake there were You Tube videos out there that promoted getting approved for DAS to be able to bypass the upcharges.
I know that this doesn't apply to just DAS users, and I realize that some (those that need it included) are trying to avoid the upcharge, but putting the time into doing the research into how to best utilize the paid system, and I am not talking the fancy Premier Lightning Lane, just the plain/old G+ is well worth it. We run "Theme Park Challenges", if you google "Every Ride Challenge" you will see what some crazies like myself put ourselves through. Just recently we rode all 55 Attractions at Disneyland/Disney California adventure in not only an operating day, but in less then 13 hours (not hard to find me on the Every Ride Site if you look at my Handle here), using absolutely nothing but Paid Genie Plus (not the premier) and using one Individual Lightning Lane. Do I wish the old Fastpass Days came back where we could select our lightning lanes like 60 days out with a resort reservation (WDW) were back, 100%.
The reality is that Disney and most attraction operators will continue to charge more for less, and a paid "skip the line" environment is here to stay. If you absolutely refuse to pay it (which I don't blame you, and understand) then you will wait in line longer, not only at Attractions, but at Airports, Zoo's, parking etc etc. That's just the world we live in, disability or not.

 

[Soccer Canada]

I think a middle ground should have been attempted 1st. DAS pass good for disabled persons and 1 caregiver--not a "family" of 8, which included extended family. Not perfect, but I bet it would have cut down on abuse.

The issue was the wide spread abuse. Only way to get rid of that is to just about lock it down completely, which is what they more or less have done. From what I have seen visually in the parks I would say the scary part, and speaks to the wide spread abuse is this might have been the middle ground. Its possible that Disney may have been willing to more or less get rid of the program minus where ever the American's with Disabilities Act required them to provide.

 

[Soccer Canada]

The issue was the wide spread abuse. Only way to get rid of that is to just about lock it down completely, which is what they more or less have done. From what I have seen visually in the parks I would say the scary part, and speaks to the wide spread abuse is this might have been the middle ground. Its possible that Disney may have been willing to more or less get rid of the program minus where ever the American's with Disabilities Act required them to provide.

To add to this I am not suggesting that disabilities are all visual.. But if you have the ability to ride Rock N Roller Coaster, jump off the attraction, run back around, get back in line, rinse and repeat that is going to make the average person wonder what's going on.

 

[Dean]

I think a middle ground should have been attempted 1st. DAS pass good for disabled persons and 1 caregiver--not a "family" of 8, which included extended family. Not perfect, but I bet it would have cut down on abuse.
As for DVC--the current "pay more $ to be able to ride even basic rides without waiting in long lines" has very much soured us on WDW. We'll be selling our DVC within 5 years. It was a great run (DVC and 10 RCI trades into DVC). But, with tickets $150+/day and then an added $30+ it's just too much of a money grab for us at this point. A 5 day Disney cruise was less than going to WDW.

With the "give an inch take a mile" reality I think the radical approach was likely best. Again, given the stated goal it's a very niche program anyway for a SUBSET of Autistic, delayed individuals.

As for DVC, one has to have a certain amount of separation between DVC and Disney in general. DVC is a timeshare and they always change over time. In this case you have both the variables of DVC changing and Disney in general. That's why feel timeshares have to make sense even if things don't go well, fees increase, etc. Unfortunately far too many look at either the current situation or close to best case scenario and use that info to make decisions. One should even consider what happens if Disney closes as part of the decision making process. Sometimes what made sense at one time won't later on due to changes in the system and/or changes in their personal situation.

I was mistaken in that my DIL had discussed the program but not actually completed the process. She did yesterday and said it was very easy. They asked about trouble waiting in line and what accommodations he had for school. That was apparently it.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The DAS pass didn't allow for riding one ride over and over again. You still had to get a new time, and it was supposed to be an estimated time based on regular wait times for rides. If that wasn't happening, shame on Disney for allowing people to go over and over again.

The Lightning Lane is a joke. We tried this last trip. There would be one decent ride, then you got to choose another one later in the day. I think it's a terrible system for families with small kids. Disney used to be about kids. I do love rides like Winnie the Pooh that have fun things for the kids to do while waiting. We have a tough time getting the kids to move ahead in line because they are having so much fun with the other kids.

 

[Soccer Canada]

The DAS pass didn't allow for riding one ride over and over again. You still had to get a new time, and it was supposed to be an estimated time based on regular wait times for rides. If that wasn't happening, shame on Disney for allowing people to go over and over again.

The Lightning Lane is a joke. We tried this last trip. There would be one decent ride, then you got to choose another one later in the day. I think it's a terrible system for families with small kids. Disney used to be about kids. I do love rides like Winnie the Pooh that have fun things for the kids to do while waiting. We have a tough time getting the kids to move ahead in line because they are having so much fun with the other kids.

During after hours events like Disney After Hours, Very Merry Christmas, Not So Scary etc. There was no such provision.. DAS users were allowed to enter the Lightning Lane or designated DAS entrance and ride as many times as they wanted, it was basically front of the line access. Rides like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train or Rock N Roller Coaster routinely had a rotation of at least 15-20 DAS users rotating through the line at the events. Not during events you are absolutely correct, at one point in time you had to go to the physical entrance to the attraction to receive your return time I believe or there may have been a checkpoint in each land that dealt with the attractions in that area, more recently it could all be done with MDE (My Disney Experience).

With regards to Lightning Lane.. System is very flawed. Leads to longer Stand By times for those that do not want to purchase. During busy times your bang on, complete waste of time, unless you can factor that $40 purchase to a park like Disney Hollywood Studios and with the current rules book 3 rides in advance, knowing thats the only 3 you will get on the system. During Moderate to Slower Times, I can use 15-20 Lightning Lanes in a day across the 4 parks (or 2 depending on which coast you are on). Again, comes down to the research, planning and knowing how best to get your money from the system. Again, do I agree that you should have to spend more time on top of what is already spent vacation planning, and then spend the time your there somewhat glued to your phone, I do not. Its the system they have, and its not going anywhere, purely a financial decision for Disney, nothing to do with Guest Experience.