I'm baaaaaack! And considering re-entering the TS world

[LisaRex]

Greetings to all Tuggers, esp those who were around when I ventured into TSing and TUG back in 2006! I missed you!

Background: I ventured upon TUG before we decided to make Maui our annual Mecca, and purchased an OF 2 bdrm lock off at WKORV-N on the resale market, sight unseen. I paid a whopping $50,000 to some poor soul who’d paid $125,000 from the developer just a few months prior. We happily used our home resort and the SVO network extensively over the next 8 years.

A decade later when the kids started college, we happily sold WKORV-N for $25,000 so we could expand our horizons beyond SVO.

We spent the next decade traveling extensively to Europe, Costa Rica, etc. and enjoying the heck out of exploring other places.

What is luring us back into TSing is that we are near 60 and considering our retirement strategy. While we want to continue to explore the world, snowbirding for a month somewhere is appealing.

We’ve looked into buying a Maui condo and, even though prices are softening, it’s hard to sink that kind of money into a place unless we wanted to live there year round. We still have a lovely life (inc grandkids) in Ohio, and leaving our home for greener pastures and bluer waters is not in the cards.

Sooo, actually buying WKORV-N again might be the best option for achieving our goal of having the best of all worlds.

But much has changed, so please indulge me while I ask some questions to acquaint myself with the changes that happened in the meantime, namely the Marriott acquisition.

 

[LisaRex]

1) OF WKORV-N 2 bdrm now comes with 176,000 SOs v 148,100 when I owned. Mandatory resale owners used to be able to use SOs at SVO properties. Is that still the case? I assume we’d have no exchange ability into Marriott?

2) Is banking still allowed? When do I have to bank by and is it still good for 2 years?

3) Can I use current and banked SOs to book a 3 bdrm at Nanea at 8 months out?

4) I assume from all the ads that I can rent my unit.

5) Looks like resale rates from N OF is $20-25k and S-OFC is around $40-45. Does that sound right?

6) If I split my LO, can I can split and use each side in back to back weeks at 12 months out?

7) Are multi-week owners able to daisy chain multiple weeks on one phone call and not have to check-out and back-in each week?

8) I realize that the economy is tenuous. Are delinquencies a problem?

9) Is Starwood maintaining the resorts to a 5* level?

10) Is II still a decent avenue if I wanted to deposit either side of my L/O?

 

[VacationForever]

Welcome back! It has been a while.

Yes to all the questions except for (2). Correction here: on Question 7, I don't know. I was initially confused because with Marriott timeshare you can but I don't think it has been the case with Vistana resorts. MVC had indicated that VSN banking duration will be aligned with MVC owner benefit level. If you own resale Vistana (Westin/Sheraton) and they are not enrolled (term coined by MVC to indicate whether they are allowed to be part of MVC "Abound" network booking), then they have no "status". Technically, banking will only be for 1 year at owner level, but there have been reports recently on TUG that they are still seeing 2 years extension on banking. We suspect that their lousy IT is not allowing MVC to implement shortened banking for no/lower ownership levels.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm not sure about #7. I don't think you can reserve consecutive home resort weeks in advance of the 12-month booking window. You would need to wait for each booking window to open.

You've lost a fair amount of flexibility by getting out of the system and now wanting back in. Since you got out, Marriott launched Abound to VSN members and they can now elect Club Points for their week to book other Vistana resorts along with Marriott Vacation Club resorts. Post August 2022 resale VOIs ca not enroll in Abound without an additional $10K spend.

 

[vacationtime1]

As to #5, I think you are low on price for OF units at North and high on the price for OFC units at South. Check www.rofr.net

 

[Ken555]

Welcome back! Somehow I'm not that surprised you've returned.

 

[duke]

Welcome back!

 

[silentg]

Welcome back!

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

Welcome back. I for one can't comprehend why you would want to get back into TS after making a successful escape. As others mention there are a few nuances that have transpired in the years you've been away. I'm in the minority but not having access to Abound would be a drawback in your life situation.

Not strictly TS related but sadly Lahaina is not the same place it was 10 years ago. It never will be. Commercially it will come back, but maybe not in our lifetime at the normal rate of progress there.

 

[rcv82]

On number 7, you are best off booking on the web at midnight eastern 12 months out. There is unlikely to be any availability if you wait until the next morning to call. And you should repeat for each week you own. As long as they are the same unit type, I have always been kept in the same unit. The exception to the above is if you own Nanea or Flex HomeOptions, then you can book up to 14 nights consecutive 12 months out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I would also say yes to all. I was just there and although Lahaina is still recovering, I never spent much time in Lahaina. There are restaurants in the area at Whalers Village and Napili. Ka'anapali, Napili, Kihei and Wailea are the same. The beaches and snorkeling are still fantastic.

Although we were considering selling and using SO traders we decided to keep because they consistently assign us OF rooms as owners that are the best rooms in the resort (with midnight 1 year prior reservations specifying room preference). We would not get that as a trader. Although MFs are expensive, we plan to lock off more often in the future to stretch our ownership value into 2 weeks or to rent half to pay MF.

Your resale will not be enrolled in Abound but you are not missing much because KORN units are best used or locked off. It is all or nothing with Abound deposits so you cannot deposit half (which IMO is a weakness of Abound.)

I believe you can deposit a lockoff into II with SOs. You would also have free exchanges and re-trades AFAIK. (We own a free unit that we acquired at SDO to trade in II. The SDO VOI is our Marriott strategy.) Although I have not deposited KORN in II I would imagine it would have good trading power for MVC. However our first choice would be to use it for SOs or rent half.

re: #2 banking. I will let you know my DP when I bank my points before the end of June.

 

[rickandcindy23]

#9, yes, absolutely. We still even get a mid-week tidy, if you can believe it.

You could always buy a really great trader, like Sheraton Desert Oasis 2 bedroom lockoff and play the exchange game, which is really fun for me. You could also buy Westin Kierland platinum season 2 bedroom for the mandatory SO's and save big on MF's.

 

[Henry M.]

Welcome back, Lisa!

The SVO part of ownership is still pretty much as it was before, except for the banking of Staroptions.

The banking rules are listed here:

Banking Rules

I think if you lock off your unit to use it two consecutive weeks, you will make the reservation for one side at 12 months out, and then the reservation for the other side one week later.

I was just in Maui the end of April and early May for three weeks. I was able to make my reservation a couple of months out and the system allowed me to make a 21 day reservation. I then added a couple of extra days and did not have to change units. I actively avoid going on peak weeks, so staying in the same unit is easier.

I still feel the resorts in Maui look great. KORN is scheduled to be updated starting in August or September this year. I'm going back for several weeks at the end of September. I'm not sure what impact the renovation will have on my stay.

Renting out my ownership has significantly softened since the Lahaina fire. I intend to just use my units the next several years. I want to spend a few months in Maui every year.

I am currently at the Westin Riverfront in Avon, Colorado and also made two separate reservations. Upon checking in, the front desk was able to assign the second reservation to the same room and prepared keys for the whole duration so I don't have to go to the front desk after the reservation change. They will take care of it automatically.

I no longer care much about the view. In fact, some first floor units at KORN that allow easy entry and exit out the back door are very convenient. I prefer them to being beaten by the sun during summer afternoons at KORS. They also cost less in terms of Staroptions.

I am using my units in retirement pretty much like you are. I also have the same outlook about buying something in Maui. In addition to the purchase price, most nicer condos also have well over $1,500 maintenance fees. Since I'm not moving there permanently, owning several lock off timeshare weeks are a better option for me than outright owning a whole house or condo. Even if I were staying a whole year or more, and had the cash to buy something outright, it still seems better to rent and use the cash for investments that would more than pay for the rent.

I find the Abound program significantly enhances the flexibility of my ownership. Since I own multiple weeks, I can reserve at Marriott resorts 13 months out. You also get a discount on the Club Points needed when you reserve within 60 days of arrival. My KOR/KORN units give me 6200 Club Points each. With that, I reserved 10 days in Colorado starting Memorial Day, to stay 2 days in a studio at the Westin Riverfront (at the end of a Staroptions reservation there), plus 8 days in a 2BR unit in Steamboat. I also made a 10-day reservation in a 2BR in Marbella, Spain, and still have 2,200+ Club Points left over. So my one Maui week is worth a month+ in 2BR units in other locations I want to visit. The Westin Riverfront is very nice. Steamboat was newly remodeled so we'll see how it stacks up in terms of amenities. If I had made reservations much earlier, I might have found 1BR or Studio units for even fewer Club Points.

Marriott has timeshares in Costa Rica, France, Spain, and several Caribbean locations. It is nice to be able to use them.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

Welcome Back @LisaRex, I'm turning 64 this year and we have decided to buy consecutive weeks at my favorite timeshare in Florida, so we are doing something similar.

 

[DeniseM]

Welcome back Lisa! Let me know if I can help.

 

[LisaRex]

As to #5, I think you are low on price for OF units at North and high on the price for OFC units at South. Check www.rofr.net

Thanks for the link. I forgot about ROFR.

 

[LisaRex]

Thx for the welcome and the input. The Abound program sounds like a nice way to exchange into Marriott properties but it appears I missed the boat on that.

I may have to consider Marriott towers so that I have the ability to daisy chain multiple weeks. So much to think about.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Great to hear from you. Glad you are doing well.
I think the responses have covered most of your questions.

As you mentioned, you missed being grandfathered into MVC (Abound) - this was an great benefit for long-time WKORV/N OF and WKV-P+ owners (and I think WLR P+ owners) with a very low cost for Abound elections (iirc, in 2024 it was ~45c/point for our WKORV OFD and WKV-P+ VOIs). Plus, received Chairman level which has proved to be useful for us for the 30% discount at <60 days out using MVC/Abound.

We were at WKORV right after the tragic Lahaina fire, it was empty - maybe 20-30% occupancy. We decided to use Abound for our 2024 usage of WKORV OFD (give time for West Maui to come back) and reserved the BI (Waikoloa) at 13 months as we had never been. I think our cost was ~$220/nt for a 1Bd with the Abound election. It was nice, but prefer Maui. It was too far to drive to good snorkel spots. Also been using Abound for multiple stays at LV Grand Chateau for weekday reservations (~$63/nt for a studio). Plus - cheap weekday flights for STS-LAS ($80 on Alaska). Heck it cost $50 just to take the shuttle to SFO.

Probably too costly to get to Chairman level now. If you are looking to get back in, perhaps buying MVC points on resale market may be best (?), or buying WKV-P+ resale and using SOs. Of course, that would limit you to only VSN properties. If it were me nowadays... I'd rent from folks trying to cover their MFs and forego the upfront and ongoing costs.

Enjoy. We will be back at WKORV this October. Looking forward to it.

 

[LisaRex]

Thanks David. Glad you’re doing well, too. How’s WSJ these days? I haven’t been back since the devastating hurricane.

Renting back to back weeks for a month might well be the way to go. I’m hoping they’d allow me to keep the same unit because checking in and out every week would definitely be a pain.

Or we might buy multiple weeks at WKV and use SOs at 8 months. I see that you are able to reserve up to 20 days with SOs, subject to availability.

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

Welcome back, Lisa!

The SVO part of ownership is still pretty much as it was before, except for the banking of Staroptions.

The banking rules are listed here:

Banking Rules

I think if you lock off your unit to use it two consecutive weeks, you will make the reservation for one side at 12 months out, and then the reservation for the other side one week later.

I was just in Maui the end of April and early May for three weeks. I was able to make my reservation a couple of months out and the system allowed me to make a 21 day reservation. I then added a couple of extra days and did not have to change units. I actively avoid going on peak weeks, so staying in the same unit is easier.

I still feel the resorts in Maui look great. KORN is scheduled to be updated starting in August or September this year. I'm going back for several weeks at the end of September. I'm not sure what impact the renovation will have on my stay.

Renting out my ownership has significantly softened since the Lahaina fire. I intend to just use my units the next several years. I want to spend a few months in Maui every year.

I am currently at the Westin Riverfront in Avon, Colorado and also made two separate reservations. Upon checking in, the front desk was able to assign the second reservation to the same room and prepared keys for the whole duration so I don't have to go to the front desk after the reservation change. They will take care of it automatically.

I no longer care much about the view. In fact, some first floor units at KORN that allow easy entry and exit out the back door are very convenient. I prefer them to being beaten by the sun during summer afternoons at KORS. They also cost less in terms of Staroptions.

I am using my units in retirement pretty much like you are. I also have the same outlook about buying something in Maui. In addition to the purchase price, most nicer condos also have well over $1,500 maintenance fees. Since I'm not moving there permanently, owning several lock off timeshare weeks are a better option for me than outright owning a whole house or condo. Even if I were staying a whole year or more, and had the cash to buy something outright, it still seems better to rent and use the cash for investments that would more than pay for the rent.

I find the Abound program significantly enhances the flexibility of my ownership. Since I own multiple weeks, I can reserve at Marriott resorts 13 months out. You also get a discount on the Club Points needed when you reserve within 60 days of arrival. My KOR/KORN units give me 6200 Club Points each. With that, I reserved 10 days in Colorado starting Memorial Day, to stay 2 days in a studio at the Westin Riverfront (at the end of a Staroptions reservation there), plus 8 days in a 2BR unit in Steamboat. I also made a 10-day reservation in a 2BR in Marbella, Spain, and still have 2,200+ Club Points left over. So my one Maui week is worth a month+ in 2BR units in other locations I want to visit. The Westin Riverfront is very nice. Steamboat was newly remodeled so we'll see how it stacks up in terms of amenities. If I had made reservations much earlier, I might have found 1BR or Studio units for even fewer Club Points.

Marriott has timeshares in Costa Rica, France, Spain, and several Caribbean locations. It is nice to be able to use them.

Great to hear from you. Glad you are doing well.
I think the responses have covered most of your questions.

As you mentioned, you missed being grandfathered into MVC (Abound) - this was an great benefit for long-time WKORV/N OF and WKV-P+ owners (and I think WLR P+ owners) with a very low cost for Abound elections (iirc, in 2024 it was ~45c/point for our WKORV OFD and WKV-P+ VOIs). Plus, received Chairman level which has proved to be useful for us for the 30% discount at <60 days out using MVC/Abound.

We were at WKORV right after the tragic Lahaina fire, it was empty - maybe 20-30% occupancy. We decided to use Abound for our 2024 usage of WKORV OFD (give time for West Maui to come back) and reserved the BI (Waikoloa) at 13 months as we had never been. I think our cost was ~$220/nt for a 1Bd with the Abound election. It was nice, but prefer Maui. It was too far to drive to good snorkel spots. Also been using Abound for multiple stays at LV Grand Chateau for weekday reservations (~$63/nt for a studio). Plus - cheap weekday flights for STS-LAS ($80 on Alaska). Heck it cost $50 just to take the shuttle to SFO.

Probably too costly to get to Chairman level now. If you are looking to get back in, perhaps buying MVC points on resale market may be best (?), or buying WKV-P+ resale and using SOs. Of course, that would limit you to only VSN properties. If it were me nowadays... I'd rent from folks trying to cover their MFs and forego the upfront and ongoing costs.

Enjoy. We will be back at WKORV this October. Looking forward to it.

Glad to see others are also getting value from Abound and it is a shame Lisa wouldn't get grandfathered in with a new purchase.

They just added a whole new bunch of Escapes and I see 7 nights on the Gold Coast of Australia for 420pts (in a guestroom with a small kitchenette). I know it's the middle of winter there but still, 3 weeks for around half of the Abound points we get for our 1BR Gold season at WLG. If only I had the time! I'll have to make do with a week just outside Paris (2x 2BR) and week in Malaga (1BR) for this year that we used our banked 2023 WKORV-N for.

 

[iftravel]

Glad to see others are also getting value from Abound and it is a shame Lisa wouldn't get grandfathered in with a new purchase.

They just added a whole new bunch of Escapes and I see 7 nights on the Gold Coast of Australia for 420pts (in a guestroom with a small kitchenette). I know it's the middle of winter there but still, 3 weeks for around half of the Abound points we get for our 1BR Gold season at WLG. If only I had the time! I'll have to make do with a week just outside Paris (2x 2BR) and week in Malaga (1BR) for this year that we used our banked 2023 WKORV-N for.

Does Abound allow you to book consecutive weeks? 20 days max etc?

Thanks David. Glad you’re doing well, too. How’s WSJ these days? I haven’t been back since the devastating hurricane.

Renting back to back weeks for a month might well be the way to go. I’m hoping they’d allow me to keep the same unit because checking in and out every week would definitely be a pain.

Or we might buy multiple weeks at WKV and use SOs at 8 months. I see that you are able to reserve up to 20 days with SOs, subject to availability.

When you have several resale WKV / WSJ / WKORV, consider buy direct a small package Westin Flex to requalify them into Abound.

 

[vacation dreaming]

Does Abound allow you to book consecutive weeks? 20 days max etc?

When you have several resale WKV / WSJ / WKORV, consider buy direct a small package Westin Flex to requalify them into Abound.

Yes, 21 days max with abound if available. Inventory seems to be available at the locations heavily in the trust and less so in some locations heavily weeks owned. Abound has lots of nuances I have learned from playing around with it. The Westins can be booked 12 months out but I don’t think it allows you to book those for 21 days at 12 months. I have been fairly happy with Abound but there is certainly more behind the scenes booking caveats such as unpublished minimum night stays, random inventory release times and other observations commonly discussed. It has provided new locations and additional flexibility to my ownership although certainly at a cost.

 

[tomandrobin]

Welcome Back!
.....Now run for the exit!

We are in a similar, but different situation. Similar in that we are nearing 60 (2026) and looking at snowbird options. Living on the East coast, we have decided to buy a home in Florida (We are still big Disney people) but not near the Parks.

We have scaling back are DVC points to around 1700 and would like to get rid of Atlantis after this summer (wish me luck on that). We are keeping the WSJ units.

Instead of buying, why not look into renting from Owners here, Redweek or similar websites?

 

[DavidnRobin]

Thanks David. Glad you’re doing well, too. How’s WSJ these days? I haven’t been back since the devastating hurricane.

Renting back to back weeks for a month might well be the way to go. I’m hoping they’d allow me to keep the same unit because checking in and out every week would definitely be a pain.

Or we might buy multiple weeks at WKV and use SOs at 8 months. I see that you are able to reserve up to 20 days with SOs, subject to availability.

We gave away our WSJ weeks (!!!) a few years ago. It had become too expensive for overall travel to StJ (Air/Car/MFs), plus following H.Irma it had become less desirable with the hard corals destroyed (snorkeling-wise). We also moved to NorCal (Sonoma County) and bought a home that is like a mini resort. We miss StJ, but was time to move on.
Good luck in your search.

 

[sjlola]

Welcome back! I've missed your contributions to the forum. In regards to question 7, this is one of my main beefs with Marriott. We've owned since WKORV was a construction site and over 25 years have migrated everything to annual OF WKORVN and spend 3-4 weeks there each January. We used to be able to make the first week's reservation at midnight Orlando time to get a great time stamp, then call when Owner Services' phones opened the next morning to have the agent 'daisy chain' any subsequent weeks. No more. Now, you have to make each 7-night HomeOption reservation at 365 days out. That being said, when we check in, we never need to change rooms and they assign all our keys at once (we stay in the 1 br side and frequently have friends come stay on the studio side). We also used to book the 2 br lockoff and if friends didn't join us, one phone call would cancel the studio unit without having to make a new reservation. Now, we're forced to make 2 separate reservations each week for the 1 br and studio units so if we need to cancel anything, we don't lose our time stamp. I know many owners disagree, but I haven't noticed much difference in overall maintenance and feel under the new ownership. Hope you find something that works for you!