I can't even GIVE my Daytona timeshare away. Why?

[sarasotarn]

I have a legitimate question & would like some assistance from someone who actually knows timeshares.
I bought a nice timeshare in Daytona - (Silver Beach) - and easily booked it for a prime time in Daytona last year. (Bike Week).
The stay was fantastic.
Now I have a major financial crisis & have been attempting to GIVE IT AWAY for only the direct 2007 maintenance fees & the transfer fees at the service of their choice. It is even still available for this year.
I have had no legitimate inquiries.
Would someone please take the time to give me a clue why I can't even GIVE this timeshare away?

Thanks

 

[BM243923]

Have you tried listing it on ebay for $1.00

You cannot donate it to charity unless the maint. fees are paid. The resort will not take it back and if you do not pay the maint, fees it will affect your credit rating.

You can try and rent it and recover the maint. fees other than that ebay is my only suggestion.

Good luck

 

[Shoeshine]

..........

 

[Lisa P]

What size unit is it? How much are maint fees? Are there any assessments pending?

If it's a studio... has high maint fees... has assessments...

These things can make a timeshare tough to sell or give away.

 

[GrayFal]

Post it here for free - be sure to include you are looking for re-imbursement of 2007 MFs - and you should pay them to avoid a bad credit report problem.
Good luck!
http://www.tugbbs.com/c_ads/showcat.php?cat=88

This is open to TUG members only - so join for $15 and post for free....

 

[Aldo]

If, like many many timeshares, RCI is renting it out through SnapTravel for less than the Maintenance Fee plus the Exchange Fee, then there is absolutely no point in owning it.

This is the threat rentals pose to every owner of every week. No point in owning the week, people can give it away, they have to walk away from it, MF must skyrocket to cover, never ending cycle until everyone goes bust.

 

[timeos2]

Blame the resorts

If, like many many timeshares, RCI is renting it out through SnapTravel for less than the Maintenance Fee plus the Exchange Fee, then there is absolutely no point in owning it.

This is the threat rentals pose to every owner of every week. No point in owning the week, people can give it away, they have to walk away from it, MF must skyrocket to cover, never ending cycle until everyone goes bust.

Aldo - If your scenario played out it would in fact spell an end to many timeshares. And the glut of low cost time being offered in many areas by SnapTravel and others can certainly cause values to drop or disappear if the owners of the resorts largely continue to deposit the use time with II or RCI rather than use it. And if lazy management bulk deposits what could otherwise be valuable time. The problem doesn't exist when the majority of the time a resort has to offer is in high demand for use, only limited amounts are placed in any pool to trade and if the resort takes the proper steps to make itself appealing year round even if the weather would say otherwise. If you collect all fees from your owners and sell out the resort there is no time to offer on the cheap and trade demand is high.

The real problem is the now hundreds of resorts and tens of thousands of weeks that simply aren't worth the annual fees as trade or in use to the owners. The owners bought based on an artificially created dream of buy here and go elsewhere on the cheap - the bad time was being subsidized by the owners of better managed and higher demand resorts. That could never be sustained over the long term. You are blaming the companies trying to move that poor time to someone vs blaming the resorts that refuse to raise their own value to owners and guests. More and more of the better resorts are becoming second homes to the owners during their use times - and less of them are in the various exchange systems. More resorts are in one mini-system or another also reducing the deposits of the better times to II or RCI. What you are seeing in trade and many of the low cost - not the high priced - rentals are the times that have always been dogs and now reflect it in low demand as well as low value for rent or sale.

It all goes back to buy what you like at a price you are happy with and USE the time most years. Rent or use a mini-system if your goal is trade.

 

[BocaBum99]

If, like many many timeshares, RCI is renting it out through SnapTravel for less than the Maintenance Fee plus the Exchange Fee, then there is absolutely no point in owning it.

This is the threat rentals pose to every owner of every week. No point in owning the week, people can give it away, they have to walk away from it, MF must skyrocket to cover, never ending cycle until everyone goes bust.

That is the wrong conclusion.

If an owner can rent a week for the equivalent of the MF plus an exchange fee, then it has a positive value.

If the exchange fee is $164 as it is in RCI, then the rental would net an annual profit of $164. At 8% return on invested capital, that timeshare is worth about $2000 less closing and transfer fees.

Since that is about what a DVC points package returns, they are about equivalent investments.

In addition, availability of rentals changes over time. Just because RCI has cheap inventory now, it doesn't mean it will have it in the future. And, every person who got a great deal renting is a potential prospect for purchasing a timeshare in the future.

This is the golden age of timesharing. There is no better time to own than now. There are more options available for a lower price with tons of options for selling and renting your units that loads of money can be made or saved using it. And, far more can be done owning than renting.

 

[Carolinian]

John, But haven't you been long arguing that since Florida was warm all year, it was exempt from this problem?????? This is also a FLOATING week, which can be taken in high season (bike week as to OP used last year, for example).

The problem with massive exchange company rentals is simple supply and demand. When an exchange company floods the market with cheap rentals to the general public, it is going to drive down both rental and resale prices for timeshare owners. And, yes, and the OP shows, this can and will impact high season in Florida, too!

Aldo - If your scenario played out it would in fact spell an end to many timeshares. And the glut of low cost time being offered in many areas by SnapTravel and others can certainly cause values to drop or disappear if the owners of the resorts largely continue to deposit the use time with II or RCI rather than use it. And if lazy management bulk deposits what could otherwise be valuable time. The problem doesn't exist when the majority of the time a resort has to offer is in high demand for use, only limited amounts are placed in any pool to trade and if the resort takes the proper steps to make itself appealing year round even if the weather would say otherwise. If you collect all fees from your owners and sell out the resort there is no time to offer on the cheap and trade demand is high.

The real problem is the now hundreds of resorts and tens of thousands of weeks that simply aren't worth the annual fees as trade or in use to the owners. The owners bought based on an artificially created dream of buy here and go elsewhere on the cheap - the bad time was being subsidized by the owners of better managed and higher demand resorts. That could never be sustained over the long term. You are blaming the companies trying to move that poor time to someone vs blaming the resorts that refuse to raise their own value to owners and guests. More and more of the better resorts are becoming second homes to the owners during their use times - and less of them are in the various exchange systems. More resorts are in one mini-system or another also reducing the deposits of the better times to II or RCI. What you are seeing in trade and many of the low cost - not the high priced - rentals are the times that have always been dogs and now reflect it in low demand as well as low value for rent or sale.

It all goes back to buy what you like at a price you are happy with and USE the time most years. Rent or use a mini-system if your goal is trade.

 

[Carolinian]

Boca,

I think you missed the point that Aldo is making. For someone who trades, if he can rent a week cheaper than it will cost to pay an m/f & RCI exchange fee & RCI membership fee, he has no incentive to buy or to continue to own. He is better off to dump it (or not buy it) and just use the cheap RCI rentals.

Who is going to buy the cow (or keep owning it) when RCI is giving away the milk for pennies?

The idea of chose who rent cheap from RCI being prospects to buy also doesn't wash. Once someone has discovered cheap rentals, why in the world would they part with cash to buy, especially at developer prices?? A friend of mine who was extremely interested in buying timeshare to trade completely lost interest when her boyfriend discovered cheap RCI rentals on Skyauction, booked one, and had fun going on sales tours to laugh at the salesman and brag about how cheap they had discovered they could rent timeshare. That is the real world of what cheap RCI rentals are doing to sales.

That is the wrong conclusion.

If an owner can rent a week for the equivalent of the MF plus an exchange fee, then it has a positive value.

If the exchange fee is $164 as it is in RCI, then the rental would net an annual profit of $164. At 8% return on invested capital, that timeshare is worth about $2000 less closing and transfer fees.

Since that is about what a DVC points package returns, they are about equivalent investments.

In addition, availability of rentals changes over time. Just because RCI has cheap inventory now, it doesn't mean it will have it in the future. And, every person who got a great deal renting is a potential prospect for purchasing a timeshare in the future.

This is the golden age of timesharing. There is no better time to own than now. There are more options available for a lower price with tons of options for selling and renting your units that loads of money can be made or saved using it. And, far more can be done owning than renting.

 

[timeos2]

The area, as well as the weatehr, is the attraction

John, But haven't you been long arguing that since Florida was warm all year, it was exempt from this problem?????? This is also a FLOATING week, which can be taken in high season (bike week as to OP used last year, for example).

The problem with massive exchange company rentals is simple supply and demand. When an exchange company floods the market with cheap rentals to the general public, it is going to drive down both rental and resale prices for timeshare owners. And, yes, and the OP shows, this can and will impact high season in Florida, too!

Actually it helps backup my point (sorry) about seasonal times. Here we have a Florida, beach resort that still has no takers for a good part of the year. This would apply even more to resorts further North - less as you move South. The area, despite being Florida, isn't popular when the weather isn't perfect (as in 70 degrees and sunny 90%+ of the time). There just isn't much to do there if there isn't a race planned or the weather is less than ideal. So x out November to March and then add slow periods from MArch through April and all of September. Now Orlando if judged only by weather also has some less than perfect times - although not a extreme as Daytona or further North. But it has the attractions that offset that less than perfect weather and that people are happy to visit year round. Go further South and the weather becomes almost a non-factor except for those that worry about hurricane season.

The Orlando area has created a value that supersedes just the weather that most other - and almost all beach resorts - depend on. The Disney/Universal/Seaworld/etc attractions create what most other resorts can only wish they had. A year round demand for units that, so far, no amount of building can completely satisfy. Locate close to those and you have a guaranteed stream of owners, traders and renters for the foreseeable future. It's not a one trick area and isn't going to lose its year round demand unless all those attractions close overnight. In other words it is never going to happen. There is not one beach area that has anything close to that guaranteed level of demand even 5 months a year - forget year round.

 

[Carolinian]

So, I take it, you have now backed off the theory that warm-all-year, red-all-year areas are exempt from the problems caused by RCI rentals.

Of course, your post speaks only to the demand side. The problem for some areas is the other dynamic, supply. As areas become overbuilt, no matter how many attractions they have, there will be an excess in the exchange system because there is too much supply. This is the problem that places like Orlando, Williamsburg, Branson, and Massanutten have. From some posts on this board, some have suggested that Daytona may have something of the same problem to a lesser degree, and that might help explain the OP's quandry.

 

[timeos2]

Even Miami can be cooler in January

No, I'm saying that Daytona does not qualify as a warm year round area anymore than anything north of it can. There is a very much cooler, less than ideal weather stretch from November to March that makes it as seasonal as most other areas would be although still warm by Minnesota standards (grin). The benefit of ocean side gets greatly diminished when the wind turns colder. The difference in a sea side area and Orlando - although only 65-90 miles more to the south and inland - is dramatic in comfort level for visitors. Then consider that the features of Dayton and those to the north are based on sun and surf in many cases and its easy to see why the value tanks for 5-7 months per year. The weather, while not that much better in Orlando, is mitigated by the 365 day operation of the attractions. They are desirable cool, warm or hot. Few places have that advantage.

 

[acesneights]

Sounds like the problem is you missed 2007 Bike Week and you can't give away what's available for 2007.

Why not book Bike Week 2008 and rent it out for enough to cover MF and a nice profit?

If you can book Bike Week 2008, you might be able to sell it with the reservation.

Stan

 

[BocaBum99]

Boca,

I think you missed the point that Aldo is making. For someone who trades, if he can rent a week cheaper than it will cost to pay an m/f & RCI exchange fee & RCI membership fee, he has no incentive to buy or to continue to own. He is better off to dump it (or not buy it) and just use the cheap RCI rentals.

Who is going to buy the cow (or keep owning it) when RCI is giving away the milk for pennies?

The idea of chose who rent cheap from RCI being prospects to buy also doesn't wash. Once someone has discovered cheap rentals, why in the world would they part with cash to buy, especially at developer prices?? A friend of mine who was extremely interested in buying timeshare to trade completely lost interest when her boyfriend discovered cheap RCI rentals on Skyauction, booked one, and had fun going on sales tours to laugh at the salesman and brag about how cheap they had discovered they could rent timeshare. That is the real world of what cheap RCI rentals are doing to sales.

I understand what he is trying to say completely. What I am saying is that it isn't universally true and it's as unsustainable as your European airlines offering 1 Euro airfares.

RCI will die as a company before timesharing as an industry implodes. It won't.

Timesharing today is unbelievably attractive to own. As soon as someone gets it, they quickly own over 100 of them. It's NOT difficult to do at all.
Lots of people on this message board own over 100.

 

[brucecz]

After we bought a week 52 in Daytona a few years ago we noticed that there was about 48 timeshares listed for that area in the Tug reviews. We felt the area was over built for the weather in that non race time period.

We also noticed the huge differanance in the II the demand index for that area and for the Florida Keys for the Jan-Feb months.

We then sold our Daytona timeshare and started buying in the Keys to rent and use more when my wife fully retires,

Bruce

 

[Carolinian]

Actually, the European low cost carriers often have specials that are 1 eurocent or one UK penny, not one euro. And those carriers like Ryan Air and Easy Jet happen to be more profitable than the legacy airlines with higher fares.

As far as lots of people owning over a 100 timeshares, I completely disagee.
Those people, while they do exist, are pretty rare birds in the timeshare industry.

As far as the industry being able to survive RCI imploding, I agree, but it will still be a difficult period for many until RCI's successors completely get their feet on the ground in a big way.

I understand what he is trying to say completely. What I am saying is that it isn't universally true and it's as unsustainable as your European airlines offering 1 Euro airfares.

RCI will die as a company before timesharing as an industry implodes. It won't.

Timesharing today is unbelievably attractive to own. As soon as someone gets it, they quickly own over 100 of them. It's NOT difficult to do at all.
Lots of people on this message board own over 100.

 

[Carolinian]

I remember the late Marvin Beard, who founded the local OBX t/s rental/resale company back in the early days of timesharing, responding to someone else in his office, obviously a newbie, who was bragging about trading into Orlando. After observing that ''anyone can get Orlando!'', Marvin went on to talk about the early days before Orlando got overbuilt in timeshare and when it was like gold for exchange - ''mousefront property'' he said it was called then.

But times have changed. What hurts Orlando's trade value is the vast oversupply in the exchange system. RCI employee Bootleg told us that the four places that were always availble in RCI were Orlando, Branson, Williamsburg, and Massanutten, and that the two individual resorts with the biggest oversupply in the entire RCI system were both Gold Crowns in Orlando.
Orlando is overbuilt in timeshare and becoming more so.

No, I'm saying that Daytona does not qualify as a warm year round area anymore than anything north of it can. There is a very much cooler, less than ideal weather stretch from November to March that makes it as seasonal as most other areas would be although still warm by Minnesota standards (grin). The benefit of ocean side gets greatly diminished when the wind turns colder. The difference in a sea side area and Orlando - although only 65-90 miles more to the south and inland - is dramatic in comfort level for visitors. Then consider that the features of Dayton and those to the north are based on sun and surf in many cases and its easy to see why the value tanks for 5-7 months per year. The weather, while not that much better in Orlando, is mitigated by the 365 day operation of the attractions. They are desirable cool, warm or hot. Few places have that advantage.

 

[JLB]

I have not read the other replies, so as to not be influenced by them. I base my comments on 30 years of experience of vacationing in Florida, the last 20 by timesharing. We are familiar with the Ormond Beach to New Smyrna Beach area.

As I have said several times in my SW Florida in January thread, which you may read if you like, that stretch of the resorts is the first to be deposited and the last to be chosen for exchanges during Florida beach High Season, which I refer to as Snowbird Season, roughly Weeks 1-16. That area is slightly more popular during the Summer family beach vacation weeks, but as recent threads have discussed, it is still available even at relatively short notice.

More popular beach areas of Florida are only available way in advance.

IMHO, from personal experience, the area's reputation is not accidental. Many/Most/Some of the resorts are less-then-desirable hotel/motel conversions, and we have never encountered a friendly and helpful staff at any of the ones we have stayed at. They have all been short, impolite and inhospitable. I have said that it is as if they graduated form the Don Rickles School of Resort Management.

Granted, not all are like that, hopefully, but why would our experience not be similar to the experience of others? You try a few, give them a chance, and they turn up the same, so you draw an unfavorable conclusion. It is not as if we did not give them the same chance we have given other areas of Florida.

Daytona Beach is best known for Speed Week, motorcyles, the race formerly known as the Firecracker 400 (the Pepsi), tatoos, and driving on the beach.

The area itself does have a beach with big water, but it is nowhere as appealing as, say, Clearwater Beach to St. Peter Beach, Holmes Beach to Siesta Key, anything in SW FL from Punta Gorda to Marco Island, anything in the Keys, and some of the stuff in SE FL that is not wall-to-wall development.

And I feel I am being delicate, deferring to those who own in the NE. Someone has to.

PS: We don't own anywhere in Florida. So, since we don't have a horse in the race, I feel we can look at the various areas with some objectivity.

 

[JLB]

Oops, I read another reply, accidentally, because of it's proximity when I was reading mine.

Having read nothing else, I'm not sure how Orlando got involved in a Daytona Beach discussion, or how the TUG Urban Folk Hero Bootleg got involved, but since they and he did, here is exactly what he said:

"Timeshare development is like a snowball rolling downhill; as soon as a few units get sold, the developers build more and more.
The situation in Orlando is typical of this with members who bought 2/3 bedroom, Gold Crown, red season in "America's #1 Vacation Destination" blah, blah, blah....
Unfortunately, Branson is heading the same way, with resorts building continuously, Gold Crowns, 2 bedroom, etc, etc.
The big problem I hear is, members in these locations are finding that their weeks are harder to trade, because these areas are so easy to get into, devaluing their trade potential. The Massanutten resorts are having the same effect in the Shenandoah Valley as well.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with these resorts; Just the opposite, where there is a lot of competition for consumer dollars, the consumer benefits.
Because these areas are so crowded, the resorts are more likely to offer better amenities, service and facilities in order to remain competitive. Its just that, for trading purposes, summer weeks at unrated resorts in harder to get locations will always out-trade these places.

In a discussion about selling exchanges, he said:

Bootleg posted 11-08-2003 05:17

"You can transfer them to another account by paying a $49 transfer fee.

Technically speaking, you are not supposed to sell spacebanked weeks; the transfer provision is intended so that one member can give another member weeks that have been banked in an account. RCI is not going to lose a lot of sleep over it if someone decides to compensate you for the weeks.

The only problem you might encounter is that Vistana deposits more weeks than any other resort with RCI (77,000+ each year). Supply and demand dictates that you probably won't make any serious money from them."

Amazingly, both Orlando and Branson are being developed at an even faster rate now than when Mr. Bootleg made that those comments. And Daytona Beach should be ample evidence that the consumer does not always benefit, say by nicer resorts and amenities, when there are a lot of resorts in an area.

It is not the only area where there are a lot of resorts, but they are mostly lesser ones. I would agree, however, that Orlando and Branson are areas where there are a lot of resorts and most of them are very nice.

Off-topic, Mr. Bootleg's lackadaiscal take on selling exchanges was misleading, and those who have tried to do it on TUG have met with disastrous results. He made similar misleading comments about the 1-in-4 rule, with similar unfortunate results to some who use these forums.

I suspect that Mr. Bootleg's demise can be attributed to the misleading information that he speculated about, something that annoyed his employer and violated his employment agreement.

 

[Jya-Ning]

Would someone please take the time to give me a clue why I can't even GIVE this timeshare away?

Thanks

When you say you can not give it away, where and how did you try to give it away?

Do you care to post it on Tug's own give away board? As post by Grayfal http://www.tugbbs.com/c_ads/showcat.php?cat=88. So I can look at the info? (No, it is not O.K. to post it in BBS, it will make it an ad.)

Are you still owe some loan? If so, talk to the developer, tell them you are in process of bankrupcy and prepare to fire the bankrupcy.

If you don't owe money, these are the steps you could try
1) call the resort, tell them you are in finanical trouble, they may need foreclose you later or take the week from you now. Not all resorts will do it, but some will.
2) talk to a charity, you will have to pay this year's MF and Special assessment, but there are several charity that will take it from you. If you want take this approrach, post here again.
3) Sounds like you already through selling yourselve. Find one or 2 good closing company, post on eBay start with $1 and no reserve. You can send me your ad before you post. Not expert on this, I can not guarantee, but I promise it is free consult. Put for at least 2 week bidding period. Depends on the condition, you may need to share some closing cost.
4) if you don't want sell in eBay yourselve, there are eBay seller that claim will take from you for free. Click on the eBay seller, some will even pay your week.

Since you post in a public BBS, there will be a group of people that send you eMail claim they can sell for you with front cost, these are scam. They can not do better than you are willing to do. Don't bother to deal with them.

There will be another group of people contact you claim that they can take the week from you if you pay them either x time of MF or 3,000. Usually, your week is not really taken, they are finding a way to get rid of it. Only when then, they will really take it from you. Sometimes, it may not really legally take from you, since you are in financial touble, you should avoid them as far as you can.

Have you think reserve a week, rent it out to cover your MF? A Bike week can do that.

Jya-Ning

 

[BocaBum99]

Whatever you do, do NOT use Timeshare Relief. Pretty soon, there will be a shill follow up on this thread saying how great they are. These people work for that company and they swindle owners out of their timeshares.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I noticed our poster has not returned. List it here on TUG for free first and see what happens. Also free is www.vacationtimesharerentals.com List in both places and see what action you get.

 

[Aldo]

That is the wrong conclusion.

If an owner can rent a week for the equivalent of the MF plus an exchange fee, then it has a positive value.

If the exchange fee is $164 as it is in RCI, then the rental would net an annual profit of $164. At 8% return on invested capital, that timeshare is worth about $2000 less closing and transfer fees.

Since that is about what a DVC points package returns, they are about equivalent investments.

In addition, availability of rentals changes over time. Just because RCI has cheap inventory now, it doesn't mean it will have it in the future. And, every person who got a great deal renting is a potential prospect for purchasing a timeshare in the future.

This is the golden age of timesharing. There is no better time to own than now. There are more options available for a lower price with tons of options for selling and renting your units that loads of money can be made or saved using it. And, far more can be done owning than renting.

Well, Boca, I hear your free market approach. I hear you say this TS is worth $2000, less closing and transfer fees.

Then, I recall the OP, who can't GIVE the thing away.

SAYING something is worth something is easy. But it takes someone actually willing to open up his wallet before it actually is.

 

[Htoo0]

I think when the OP said he can't give it away, he meant he's not asking for any return on his 'investment'. However, he did want someone to pay this year's cost (MF, closing, etc). Sounds like the TS is paid for but he has no money available to cover the MF. I wish him luck.
IMHO, the problem with owning vs renting cheap is, as an owner, few if any of us have control over SA's and MF's. A little bad luck and/or bad management and an owner's cost can suddenly be more than the cost of renting. (Ask me how I know ) By renting, one has a pretty good idea of the cost and if it becomes too much, one can simply not rent or find another more reasonable spot.