How much $ are pts worth (not "purchase worth", but "night's stay worth")?

[jaes]

For discussion sake, let's assume the following: (1) Our discussion will be limited to pts at the HGVC, Flamingo, Las Vegas. (2) We will be discussing 5,000 pts purchased for the GOLD season at the Flamingo (no consideration of Platinum & Silver pts.). (3) Our next vacation will be at the Flamingo HGVC (no need to discuss using the pts somewhere else for our next vacation).
HERE'S THE SITUATION: Assume I would like to purchase a Flamingo, 2 bdrm (GOLD season/5,000 pts per year) ownership. Assume I have two offerings/listings to choose between: One of the offerings comes with unused 2009, 5,000 resort pts. ---The other offering, does NOT come with 5,000, 2009 pts (the current owner used the 2009 pts). ---IF the purchase price was the same for both offerings----it's a no brainer, I would purchase the offering with the 5,000 unused pts. QUESTION: How much cheaper, in sale price, would the offering WITHOUT the 5,000, 2009 pts need be in order for you to purchase that particular offering? ---A discussion, would be greatly appreciated. ----Jaes.

 

[Talent312]

Let me ask you something (besides why your writing style is so vebose)...
What do you thnk it would cost you to rent a 2-BR condo on the Strip for a week? Dunno?
You can look up rental rates on Redweek.com or VRBO.com That's one way of looking at it.

Here's another:
Assume that you plan to own the TS for 20 years. Take the cost to purchase each TS, and for the one with the 2009 points, add MF's x "20" to get an estimated total cost of ownership. Now, divide that number by "20" to get an annual cost to use. Repeat for the one without the 2009 points, only use a factor of "19."

 

[jaes]

Thanks, Talent312. We are new at this, and in process of buying. Your help was helpful. -Jaes.

 

[Sandy VDH]

What are the MFs for that unit, probably about $700, $800 tops.

 

[kool_kat]

What are the MFs for that unit, probably about $700, $800 tops.

I believe mine this year were $967 but that included the Hilton membership fee and a special assessment of maybe $125? I own 2 bedroom gold at Flamingo.

 

[alwysonvac]

.
Assume I have two offerings/listings to choose between:
One of the offerings comes with unused 2009, 5,000 resort pts.
The other offering, does NOT come with 5,000, 2009 pts (the current owner used the 2009 pts).

IF the purchase price was the same for both offerings----it's a no brainer, I would purchase the offering with the 5,000 unused pts.

QUESTION: How much cheaper, in sale price, would the offering WITHOUT the 5,000, 2009 pts need be in order for you to purchase that particular offering?

TS resales are more desirable to buyers if usage begins the same year of the purchase however most sellers are expecting reimbursement of their MF fees when they give up their usage for the year. So I normally go with the lowest resale price. If you really want 2009 points you can see if the owner with 2009 points is willing to come down on price and letting the seller know that you are considering the other lower offer. But if the seller won't budge on price then I would go with the lower offer with usage beginning next year because with HGVC you have access to open season rates. You should be able to find something in Las Vegas during open season for 2009 (see below).

Here's what available right now in Las Vegas during open season (for the next 30 days).
The current Open Season rates are Nightly Rates (excluding tax) - Mid-Week (Sun-Thu) / Weekend (Fri-Sat)
Studio/Studio Plus -$60 / $80
One Bedroom - $80 / $100
One Bedroom Plus -$100 / $120
One Bedroom Premier - $140 / $160
Two Bedroom - $100 / $120
Two Bedroom Plus - $120 / $140
Two Bedroom Premier - $140 / $160
Three Bedroom - $130 / $150
Three Bedroom Plus - $190 / $210
Two Bedroom Penthouse - $240 / $260
Three Bedroom Penthouse - $290 / $310

Hilton Grand Vacations Club at the Flamingo, Las Vegas, Nevada
Unit Type Dates Available
1 Bedroom 05/18-05/22, 05/25-05/27, 05/30-06/05, 06/07-06/11
2 Bedroom 05/20-05/21, 05/25-05/27, 05/31-06/05, 06/08-06/10
Studio 05/20-05/22, 05/25-05/28, 05/31-06/05, 06/08-06/10

Hilton Grand Vacations Club at the Las Vegas Hilton, Las Vegas, Nevada
Unit Type Dates Available
1 Bedroom 05/16-05/23, 05/25-06/14
2 Bedroom 05/16-05/23, 05/25-06/14
Studio 05/16-05/23, 05/25-06/14

Hilton Grand Vacations Club on the Las Vegas Strip, Las Vegas, Nevada
Unit Type Dates Available
1 Bedroom 05/16-05/23, 05/25-06/14
2 Bedroom 05/16-05/22, 05/25-06/14
3 Bedroom 05/16-05/22, 05/25-05/28, 05/30-06/11, 06/13-06/14
Studio 05/16-05/23, 05/25-06/14

Notice HGVC Flamingo availability above. Reservations are made most often at the HGVC Flamingo due to its location.

 

[chum94555]

Jaes

we too are in the process of buying in Vegas (On the strip) and are considering offer at $1.37/point for 5000 points. We will be suing points in 2009 so we will pay full MNF for 2009 or else we can defer this cost and start paying for 2010

fyi
ks

 

[jaes]

I'll try to keep this un-vebose. As one way to answer my question, Talent312 suggested looking up 2 bdrm Flamingo rates on Redbook.com. The one and ONLY 7 night 2bdrm Flamingo offering = $1,715 ($245 per night). alwysonvac notes that, open season, Las Vegas, 7 nights in a "Two Bedroom" are going for $740 ($110 week nights/$120 for weekends). "Two Bedroom Plus" = $880 . "Two Bedroom Premier" = $1,020. ---NOTE, there was no mention of at which HGVC resorts these rates apply (just "Las Vegas") I am thinking that a newly renovated 2 bdrm suite, at the Flamingo, with pool view (all have pool view) is, at minimum, a "Two Bedroom Plus" ($880 per 7 nights)---certainly a "Plus" relative to a "Two Bedroom" at the Las Vegas Hilton HGVC. So, to answer my orignal question, 5,000 pts/ a 7 night stay in a 2 bdrm at the Flamingo, is worth between $880 to $1,715. If, I purchased a 5000pt 2 bdrm GOLD Famingo for $5,400, paying the 2009 MF, but NOT having use of the 2009 5000 pts, some would say great deal! When truth be told, I would be better off purchasing a 5,000pt, 2 bdrm GOLD Flamingo for $6,000, paying the 2009 fees, AND getting the use of the 2009 5,000pts. CONCLUSION: Points are worth something---I am not too dazzeled by purchase price alone. ---Sorry, too vebose. --Jaes.

 

[alwysonvac]

FYI.. There are no plus, premier or penthouse unit types at HGVC Flamingo.

NOTE: The various available unit types are listed under each resort in the 2009 Club Member Guide - see page 107 for the HGVC Flamingo resort.

From the 2009 Maintenance Fees thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83985
LV Flamingo (1 bed) Total $777 O- Fee $540 R -Fee $100 Tax $42 Spec ass $95
LV Flamingo (2 bed) Total $879 O- Fee $586 R -Fee $119 Tax $49 Spec ass $115

 

[jaes]

Let's put aside the guy who is offering his 2bdrm Flamingo Gold, 7 nights for $1,715 (there must be a demand for Flamingo 2bdrms --or he is not rational).
Ok, that aside, let's say one can easily get a 2bdrm flamingo for 7 nights, during open season, --for the lowest price of $740. ----I STILL would be money ahead by paying $6,000 with use of the 5000, 2009 pts, than paying $5,400 without the use of the points. In the context of the above discussion, paying $1.08 per point (the $5,400 purchase price) is not better than paying $1.20 per point (the $6,000 purchase).... Comparing purchase price and/or $ per point is meaningless unless all factors are considered. ---Jaes.

 

[alwysonvac]

one last try.....

Let's put aside the guy who is offering his 2bdrm Flamingo Gold, 7 nights for $1,715 (there must be a demand for Flamingo 2bdrms --or he is not rational).
Ok, that aside, let's say one can easily get a 2bdrm flamingo for 7 nights, during open season, --for the lowest price of $740. ----I STILL would be money ahead by paying $6,000 with use of the 5000, 2009 pts, than paying $5,400 without the use of the points. In the context of the above discussion, paying $1.08 per point (the $5,400 purchase price) is not better than paying $1.20 per point (the $6,000 purchase).... Comparing purchase price and/or $ per point is meaningless unless all factors are considered. ---Jaes.

Unless I'm missing something ....

{lower asking price + open season rate} IS LESS THAN {higher asking price + 2009 MF}
In your example: {$5400 asking price + ($740 +tax)} IS LESS THAN {$6000 asking price + $879}

TS resales are more desirable to buyers if usage begins the same year of the purchase however most sellers are expecting reimbursement of their MF fees when they give up their usage for the year. So I normally go with the lowest resale price

Good Luck

 

[jaes]

alwysonvac quote: "In your example: {$5400 asking price + ($740 +tax)} IS LESS THAN {$6000 asking price + $879}"

Where is the $879 coming from?---In my example, the buyer in both offerings is paying 2009 MFs--so, that's an even wash. The only thing different, is with the lower price ($5,400), the purchaser is not getting the use of the 2009 5,000 pts (7 nights)---and inorder to stay those 7 nights--- as per your quote, it'll cost him $740 to purchase those nights in open season. Thus, $740 (for the 7 nights)+ $5,400 purchase price = $6,140 (7 nights + purchase price). If, I pay a purchase price of $6,000 and the 2009 5000 pt/ 7 nights are INCLUDED. Thus, $0 (for the 7 nights) + $6,000 purchase price = $6,000 --$6,000 is less than $6,140. -----Forget about bring in MFs ---they are a wash/ the same for both offerings. The original question had a purpose, because I was facing such a choice--- I needed answers. ---Jaes.