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Hilton & Wyndham Purchase Exploration

Pologuy9906

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A year ago my wife almost purchased a 500k Wyndham points for 70k. The fees were about 225 a month. Same night I found tug. Needless to say that purchase never happened. As I explored more I found Hilton and spoke with some great people along the way. My question is

1. Fundamentally for a week stay at both what's the typical MFs? I want to end up with 3 weeks.
2. Are there major restrictions using resale vs dev?
3. How easy is it for family members to use?
4. Typical cost for resale week equivalents?

Thank you
 
I think we will need some more info from you. There is a bunch of information on these boards, but I don’t think you’ve settled on the key issues (such as where do you want to go?).

1. What type of accommodations do you want (2BR, 1BR or studio)? Size matters when it comes to points requirements - and the cost of “three weeks” could be very different.

2. There are some differences, but not enough to warrant the price differential. I own resale Hilton and I’m treated quite well. Wyndham resale owners can chime in.

3. If they are not on your deed then they would need a guest certificate. Note that Wyndham has been making it more difficult for owners to let others use your timeshare and frowns upon multiple units being booked at the same time.

4. Not sure what you mean by this. It really varies by location and the season in terms of both initial resale cost and then ongoing MF.
 
Looks like you have a lot of research to do. First if you have not already join TUG. The 15.00 per year is Worth it. Without even joining Tug saved you 70,000.00
The answers to your questions are already on TUG somewhere. Your questions are a bit to complicated since your asking for a comparison between 2 brands.

Most Tuggers will say always buy resale no matter what. Which I agree with. The maintenance fees are the same and the benefits you receive from buying from the developer are not worth 90% more money.

If you want to use more than one resort location without going through exchange companies you need to buy into a multi resort system such as Wyndham or Worldmark. If Wyndham choose resort contracts that have the lowest maintenance fees. This site will let you know which ones those are.
 
in general, Wyndham has a lot more locations than HGVC. HGVC treats resale buyers better. I went with HGVC, then later picked up RCI points traders to give me more local options that were more affordable than trading my HGVC points in RCI.
 
2. There are some differences, but not enough to warrant the price differential. I own resale Hilton and I’m treated quite well. Wyndham resale owners can chime in.

HGVC recently gave a slight downgrade to any resale closing after April 4th, 2022. It will likely exclude Open Season (last minute deals directly with HGVC), and limits conversion to Hilton Honors to every other year. It is still very much worth it to buy resale.

Wyndham resale doesn't not include access to Worldmark locations. Retail purchasers can pay $99 per booking to stay at Worldmark. There are so many Wyndham properties that this shouldn't matter, and Worldmark is often accessible through Wyndham Hotels.
 
I only know Wyndham, but will do what I can to answer.

1. Fundamentally for a week stay at both what's the typical MFs? I want to end up with 3 weeks.
2. Are there major restrictions using resale vs dev?
3. How easy is it for family members to use?
4. Typical cost for resale week equivalents?

1: It can vary, and by a lot.

It depends on season, resort, unit size, and the underlying "cost basis" of what you own. It's probably best to start with cost basis: Wyndham has in the past sold (A) specific deeded fixed/floating weeks that were converted to points; (B) deeded "undivided interests" in a specific resort denominated directly in points; and (C) undeeded interests in a trust, where the trust holds the deeds and the interests are denominated in points. Each ownership carries a maintenance fee that is based on what they own. Owners also pay a program fee that is based on how many points they own.

All ownerships in Category C have the same cost basis. In 2022, that's $6.93 per thousand points. These are simple to figure out. This is probably average, or maybe a little worse than average, but not by much.

Ownerships in Category B vary depending on what resort you own, but every owner at that resort pays the same rate. For example, those who own UDI at Bonnet Creek pay $6.37 per thousand points. In contrast, owners at Durango in Colorado pay north of $10.50 per thousand, while owners at Canterbury in San Francisco pay only $3.78.

Ownerships in Category C have the most variation, because they depend on your home resort and the specific week you own. That's because every owner pays the same fees per owned week, but different weeks can be awarded a different number of points based on season. For example, I own a lock-off unit in the Waterfalls section of Sea Gardens. An owner of one of those weeks pays $862.77 per week owned. But, the points awarded are either 231K (peak season), 189K (shoulder season), or 161K. That gives ratios of $3.73, $4.56, or $5.36, respectively.

Every resale ownership also pays a program fee, which in 2022 is either $170 or $0.66/thousand points, whichever is greater. So, if you own more than about 260K points, you pay the $0.66/K rate. If you own less than that, you pay $170. This makes accounts totaling less than 260K or so more expensive.

The next bit is how many points a reservation costs. This depends on resort, season and size. At the older resorts, which tend to be in rural locations where land is cheap, a 2BR in peak season costs 154K points. Newer and fancier resorts cost more points to book, as do resorts in more expensive locations. For example, a 2BR prime week at Bonnet Creek, the Orlando flagship, is 224K. A "basic" 2BR at Shearwater on Kauai's north coast is 400K.

So if you figure the "average" peak-season 2BR is around 200-225K or so, using an "average" deed that costs about $7/K, you'll pay about $1400-$1600 per peak-season week. Owning at a less expensive resort (e.g. Canterbury) cuts that to $900-$1000. If you had the misfortune of owning at Durango, you'd be paying $2200-$2500. So you can see how important choosing the right thing to buy can be. Personally, I don't worry too much about getting the very best ratio I can possibly get, but I would try to stay at or below the CWA level for anything I considered.

2: In my experience, no.

In terms of access: For the "Club Wyndham Resorts", points are points, and any owner can book any resort in that collection at 10 months prior to check-in, pending availability. I've had very good luck booking at the 10 month window, including at some hard-to-book resorts. You also have the same access to the "Affiliate and Associate" resorts, but it is safe to ignore them because there is almost no inventory at those resorts for anyone to book. You cannot book the Club Pass (WorldMark) resorts, while the retail owners can, but IMO that's not a big deal. That's because WorldMark owners have a several month head start in booking before Wyndham-retail owners can book, so most of the desirable inventory is already gone. If you want to visit WorldMark resorts regularly, it would be better to own WorldMark. There are a few other oddities (Margaritaville, Presidential Reserve) but it's safe to ignore those as well.

In other ways, there are some modest differences. Resale owners can get hit by nuisance fees from time to time---retail owners can too, but they have a little more wiggle room. I've found that it is easy to avoid most of these most of the time, and I almost never pay them. But, doing so depends on using the system like a timeshare (a home base for many days for a vacation) vs. a hotel (a place to stay for a couple of nights or a long weekend). Owners with many short stays--particularly during the off-season--are more likely to get hit by these nuisance fees. I don't use the system that way; my stays are almost always five or more nights.

3: Doing this routinely can add nuisance fees.

Wyndham distinguishes between owners (the people named on the deed/contract) and guests (everyone else, including any other immediate family members). An owner can be the check-in guest of record on any non-overlapping reservation. That means if you have two units for a particular trip, any particular owner can be the lead guest on only one of them for "free". A guest can only check-in if they have a guest certificate. Resale owners get two of these for free each year. After that, you have to pay about $100 for each one. For long stays that require a lot of points, maybe that's not a big deal. For a bunch of long weekends, it adds up fast.

So, it pays to think about who will be on the deed/contract. If you have a spouse/partner, that person probably should definitely be on the deeds/contracts. That allows you to book up to two concurrent units, one checking in on one, the other on the other. If you have adult children that you want to send on vacation regularly, it might make sense to list them as well, but that also means that they are liable to keep paying if for some reason you stop. We did not put our adult children on the deeds, preferring to pay for the infrequent GC instead.

4: It can vary, by a lot.

I have not been tracking the market, so I can't give you specifics. But, the cost of buying a deed is usually inversely proportional to the fees per thousand of that deed. There are plenty of free Wyndham deeds out there, but most of those have $/K ratios that are higher than the trust product, and I would not want one at any price. They are too expensive to use, and they are hard to get rid of later. There are a handful of very low-fee resorts that generate a lot of interest and are bid up quickly. Then there are a range of options between those that are less expensive to buy and more expensive to own.

My advice: If you are going to own this for ten years or more before disposal, it makes sense to pay a little more for a low-fee deed. If you are going to own for less than ten years, it might be better to just rent.
 
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Wyndham vs Hilton - general pros and cons. I own both, so this is just my opinion.

PRO - Wyndham has far more locations to choose from vs CON - Hilton historically has like to have multiple properties in the same locaitons to acheive some economies of scale I presume. Although they have been aquiring some other inventory by 3rd party development and Hilton just manages ( many of the Mrytle Beach properties are this way).

PRO - Hilton vs CON Wyndham is the consistency of units throught the properties. Hilton has a consistently higher level of quality. Not that does not mean that some of the units in Wyndham are not as nice, especially the Presidential Units, but as a whole there are some better resorts and there are some worse resorts.

PRO - Hilton vs CON Wyndham is the resale price you might sell it for, historically HGVC has retained more value, and Wyndhams has not retained as much, usually even $0 at some off season or some Higher MF resorts. However this also could be a double edge sword, as you have to purchase before you resell. You will likely pay more to purchase a reale so that is a CON - Hilton over a PRO - Wyndham on that side of the transaction.

PRO - Wyndham vs CON Hilton, at least for me my MFs for Wyndham for a 1 weeks stay in a 2 BR are on average a bit less then my Hilton for the same week. But there are other things to considering in that equation, cost vs quality. I do own points that are deemed Developer, most were not purchased from Wyndham but even earlier, had VIP status added to my contract in the mid 1990s with a single purchase, equity trade and PIC contracts added. I usually do better price wise with Wyndham as I use my VIP discount regularly.

Getting Guests Certificates for family members, has a cost in both systems. Here the PRO is Hilton as they are only $59 (no free ones given) vs CON Wyndham as they are $99 (but with a resale account you do get 2 free ones). One way around the Guest Fee as Hilton is if you book during HOME season, which is where you own in the season you own, only then is there no reservation transaction fee or guest fee.

Speaking of reservation transaction fees PRO Wyndham at $19 per reservation vs CON Hilton at $79. However as a bonus Hilton reservations are changeable, but you would have to change them 4 times to breakeven if comparing Wyndham to Hilton fees.

TIE they both participate in RCI as an external exchange portal (well Hilton does for now, Wyndham like not leave it as parent company owns RCI), both also participate in a fixed points system trade. So on high demand locations or units you will do better using the fixed point trade grid than using and RCI points or TPU based trade.


So before you select Hilton or Wyndham, look to see where you want to travel. That may dictate which might work better for you.
 
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