HGVC NYC 57th Street Points

[jscboston]

I am a resale owner of two HGVC weeks (Park City and Vegas), and am considering the purchase of a resale week at the NYC 57th Street property. According to the HGVC website, the Home Resort preference (for booking 57th Street 276 days to 45 days ahead of the checkout date) "may only be used with ClubPoints associated with the specific ownership interest at that resort." My question, if there is anyone out there who owns 57th Street plus another HGVC property, is whether the points are segregated in your account, so that you can choose to use non-57th Street points for any non-NYC bookings? My concern would be making a reservation at a non-NYC resort and having them pull NYC points to do it, and thus losing my Home Resort preference. This is especially a concern as I often borrow points from the following year, and I'd like the ability to preserve my current-year NYC points while making a reservation at another resort with points from one of my non-NYC weeks borrowed from the following year.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

The points are separated and you select which points are taken when you make the reservation. If you want to ensure you borrow from future club points instead of taking current year W57 you can make a dummy booking to hold the W57 points and then cancel after the future club points reservation is made. Since W57 has all inclusive reservations, there will be no reservation fees if you opt for this benefit.

 

[brp]

Adding to the slide answer above. I have had a case where I was going to be out of HGVC points and the system pulled in some of my bHC points. This was a while back, so it may be fixed by now.

Even in this case, though, I was able to call HGVC and have them fix the point allotment. So, even if it screws up, they can fix it. You will not, in the end, lose the bHC points.

Cheers.

 

[Sandy VDH]

What is the smallest NYC W57th packages sold. It might be worth it just to get the unlimited reservation fee membership.

That is the part that bothers me, wishing you could grab a unit and then see if it will work. For a reservation fee that sometimes makes it not worth it, or you miss the unit by the time you figure out it will work. For that reason I am usually sitting on one changeable reservation for that purpose.

I am too used to my Wyndham VIP that has unlimited transactions.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Sandy VDH Smallest is 3750 points gold studio however the 5250 plat studio points are best if intend to use NYC because it gives you more options during plat season, weekends and upgrades to 1 bedroom units which require more points.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Did they ever sell EOY in NYC?

Are the studios all the same MF or are they varied from Plus to Premium.

I guess I should have said smallest Platinum points, my bad.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I have never seen an EOY. All the studios are the same MF so 3750, 5250 and 7200. However 7200 plat premier studios are very rare (only about 6 units in the building) so expensive to buy which would offset any MF savings.

Very few use their home week so points at W57 are all that really matter. Because there is an owners only reservation window before club window you can get event weeks, upgrades and reservations fairly easily before club window opens. Just need sufficient points to do so.

 

[brp]

I have never seen an EOY. All the studios are the same MF so 3750, 5250 and 7200 same. However 7200 plat premier studios are very rare (only about 6 units in the building) so expensive to buy which would offset any MF savings.

At a recent promotional "update" (one where we had to go because we got a great rate to do it), the guy was all set to let us go after about 15 minutes, but suggested that he might have one thing of interest...and he trotted out a 7200 Plat Premier. However, it would have cost our 5250 plus $30K in new money. I'd likely have done it for $10K, but not $30K. But yes, quite rare.

Cheers.

 

[JohnPaul]

Note that the club fee is an extra $120 per year to get the unlimited reservations

 

[JohnPaul]

The Residences has EOY but W 57th St does not

 

[escanoe]

Buying resale W57th points is on my list of mid to long term range things to consider. Ownership would be nice for all of the reasons above and to have owner longe access. I need to refresh my recreational piggy bank in the meantime, and I want to see how the opening of the Quin changes availability in NYC in the next few years. My guess is with time we MAY see some better resale prices become available.

 

[Nomad420]

Buying resale W57th points is on my list of mid to long term range things to consider. Ownership would be nice for all of the reasons above and to have owner longe access. I need to refresh my recreational piggy bank in the meantime, and I want to see how the opening of the Quin changes availability in NYC in the next few years. My guess is with time we MAY see some better resale prices become available.

I bought at HCNY and now am sorry I did. At the time at looking into buy at 57th where my brother owns but it had limited availability and resale was very pricey there as well. At that the time I was told HGVC points were usable at HCNY and that '"points are points". At the time they apparently were. Fast forward a year and I come to find out that if I was to buy let's say at Elara as the OP did those points CANNOT be used at HCNY. This goes back to that whole issue of a club within a club thing. I am meeting with HGVC sales in April to discuss this and currently am having the contract reviewed by my attorney who is familiar with fractional ownership issues. I am not optimistic and may just use my HCNY ownership for a few years and then dump it on the resale market. Just keep this in mind when looking at NYC properties.

 

[brp]

What you sau is true of HCNY, but not for the other NYC properties. For those (Residences, W. 57th), regular HGVC points can be used, albeit with shorter windows than other HGVC locations. HCNY really is the odd duck in the system.

FYI, AFAIK, HGVC points were never allowed into HCNY. We owned there maybe 7 or so years ago and that was certainly the case then. We sold back to HGVC and then bought W. 57th resale.

Cheers.

 

[Nomad420]

What you sau is true of HCNY, but not for the other NYC properties. For those (Residences, W. 57th), regular HGVC points can be used, albeit with shorter windows than other HGVC locations. HCNY really is the odd duck in the system.

FYI, AFAIK, HGVC points were never allowed into HCNY. We owned there maybe 7 or so years ago and that was certainly the case then. We sold back to HGVC and then bought W. 57th resale.

Cheers.

Sorry, yes, perhaps I was not clear. Indeed you are correct this is true of ONLY HCNY, that is why I am now sorry I didn't buy as I originally wanted to at W. 57th. I was however told there was an initial window when HCNY was started that you could stay there with "HGVC" points. I will be looking into my initial contract but I am sure on page 60 somehting this points issues is buried. Needless to say this was not what I was told (Yeah I know...you can tell they are lying when there lips are moving).

Also I was not aware HCNY was 7 years old, when I bought now 4 years ago, I thought it was maybe a year or two old. I was told then it was basically "new".

I was told they will probably offer to roll me into 57th street for $$$, this is something I will not do. Quite honestly, given what happened I don't think I will ever buy another Hilton property resale, retail, or otherwise.

 

[tombanjo]

I think they remodeled in 2014\15 which could be the reason you were told it's "new" at that time.

One advantage of the lack of ability to use Elara points is exactly that, only owners can use their NYC points to book, so there is better availability and short stays (like one day) are possible on short notice. The MF's are certain more than Elara, so you are buying the access and availability for that price.

Sorry that you were told something else to base your purchase on. I think one function of TUG is to educate ahead of purchase, if not to also straighten out and learn how to use after.

Another thing to look out for is the expiration of the RTU deed in 2032. Some will look at that as good, as there is a finite end to ownership with out trying to sell or give it away. They did alot of buying back the RTU's and now current contracts they sell are perpetual.

 

[brp]

.

One advantage of the lack of ability to use Elara points is exactly that, only owners can use their NYC points to book, so there is better availability and short stays (like one day) are possible on short notice. The MF's are certain more than Elara, so you are buying the access and availability for that price.

The inconsistency here is that this is not true of Residences and W. 57th, which are very bit as expensive to buy in, AFAIK. True, they have very reduced windows for HGVC points, but they do have windows. The reduced window is the concession to the buy-in premium, IMO. But, yes, when we bought HCNY, we were never told that things were other than they are.

Another thing to look out for is the expiration of the RTU deed in 2032. Some will look at that as good, as there is a finite end to ownership with out trying to sell or give it away. They did alot of buying back the RTU's and now current contracts they sell are perpetual.

We sold back our RTU when they were somewhat eager to get them and convert to perpetual.

Cheers.

 

[Nomad420]

I think they remodeled in 2014\15 which could be the reason you were told it's "new" at that time.

One advantage of the lack of ability to use Elara points is exactly that, only owners can use their NYC points to book, so there is better availability and short stays (like one day) are possible on short notice. The MF's are certain more than Elara, so you are buying the access and availability for that price.

Sorry that you were told something else to base your purchase on. I think one function of TUG is to educate ahead of purchase, if not to also straighten out and learn how to use after.

Another thing to look out for is the expiration of the RTU deed in 2032. Some will look at that as good, as there is a finite end to ownership with out trying to sell or give it away. They did alot of buying back the RTU's and now current contracts they sell are perpetual.

Absolutely that is the advantage and in fact I am going there next month and just booked, not exactly one day but ok. Also, we have already checked and we do indeed have a perpetual deed (for better or worse). Given this situation I would NEVER use a HCNY point any where else but HCNY, too expensive to use elsewhere.

As brp points out this is NOT true of the Residences and W.57th. I would say my sales agent was out of the 57th St office and admitted he was not familiar with the "new" HCNY properties. Being new to Hilton properties I was not aware of the subtleties of this so called "club within a club" obviously and was basically told "points are points" so "buy cheap properties in Orlando and use your points in NYC". Well yes this is true at 57th and Res. but NOT HCNY as we subsequently learned. I posted this so that the OP knows about the discrepancies in NYC. I will post back about the outcome of the meeting but I am sure it basically is what it is. My attorney is currently reviewing the contract but as others have pointed out previously I am sure it is buried in somewhere in it.

 

[jscboston]

Thanks to all for the responses - lots of great info here.

 

[PigsDad]

... and was basically told "points are points" so "buy cheap properties in Orlando and use your points in NYC". Well yes this is true at 57th and Res. but NOT HCNY as we subsequently learned.

Actually, that was never officially allowed, however the online booking engine did not enforce the rule of only using the bHC points for home resort extended booking window. That loophole has now been fixed. Unfortunately, as you have experienced, the sales staff exploited that loophole as a benefit to help them make the sale.

Kurt

 

[brp]

Actually, that was never officially allowed, however the online booking engine did not enforce the rule of only using the bHC points for home resort extended booking window. That loophole has now been fixed. Unfortunately, as you have experienced, the sales staff exploited that loophole as a benefit to help them make the sale.

Kurt

Actually, not the same. HGVC points can be used at W. 57th and Residences. Yes there was a very nice loophole (now closed) that let owners of those properties use the HGVC points as if they were bHC. But HGVC were always, and still are, allowed there. They're not allowed at all, at any time, at HCNY. Different beasts, loopholes aside.

What the staff said is still true for all but HCNY.

Cheers.

 

[PigsDad]

Actually, not the same. HGVC points can be used at W. 57th and Residences. Yes there was a very nice loophole (now closed) that let owners of those properties use the HGVC points as if they were bHC. But HGVC were always, and still are, allowed there. They're not allowed at all, at any time, at HCNY. Different beasts, loopholes aside.

I was just referring to the loophole where you could use regular HGVC points during the home booking window (or whatever the official term is) at the bHC properties if you were an owner. I do realize that HGVC points can be and always could be used during Club Season (the 44, now 59 day window) at the bHC properties, and that they could never be used at HCNY. Sorry if I didn't say that clearly in my previous post.

Kurt

 

[Nomad420]

I was just referring to the loophole where you could use regular HGVC points during the home booking window (or whatever the official term is) at the bHC properties if you were an owner. I do realize that HGVC points can be and always could be used during Club Season (the 44, now 59 day window) at the bHC properties, and that they could never be used at HCNY. Sorry if I didn't say that clearly in my previous post.

Kurt

PigsDad I knew what you were referring to and this issue has been discussed previously on other threads on this forum. I was aware of this "loophole" some time back which was never stated to me that this was a "loophole", error, or temporary opening into the system to allow owners to use HGVC points at HCNY. When this "loophole" was closed I was actually shocked. As to what I can do now is another issue that I will need to work out with HGVC and my attorney, if need be.

 

[brp]

I was just referring to the loophole where you could use regular HGVC points during the home booking window (or whatever the official term is) at the bHC properties if you were an owner. I do realize that HGVC points can be and always could be used during Club Season (the 44, now 59 day window) at the bHC properties, and that they could never be used at HCNY. Sorry if I didn't say that clearly in my previous post.

Kurt

PigsDad I knew what you were referring to and this issue has been discussed previously on other threads on this forum. I was aware of this "loophole" some time back which was never stated to me that this was a "loophole", error, or temporary opening into the system to allow owners to use HGVC points at HCNY. When this "loophole" was closed I was actually shocked. As to what I can do now is another issue that I will need to work out with HGVC and my attorney, if need be.

Ah, I get it now. (I had a feeling that you were referring to that aspect, but just wanted to clarify.

But now I think you're both saying something that I hadn't gotten previously:

It seems like the same loophole that let us W. 57th people use the HGVC points early (always allowed to use them, as we said, and the loophole just let us do it at Club window) also allowed HCNY people to use HGVC points, which shouldn't have been allowed at all, i.e it lumped everything for them such that HGVC acted as HCNY?

If that's the case, then I do see this as a big deal (and apologies for any confusion by missing it). For us at W. 57th, the only loss was in not being able to game the system and use Vegas points at W. 57th Club window. I liked it while it lasted, but I get it.

For HCNY, though, it completely took away the ability to use HGVC at all. While this was definitely in the contracts, the fact that it did work at the time, and was "sold" that way (by weasel words) seems pretty significant, even if not legally enforceable based on written documents.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMO...that's a big devaluation of HCNY. I believe that many owners bought there with that expectation.

That may be one reason why we are seeing some fire sale prices for HCNY on Ebay.

 

[Nomad420]

IMO...that's a big devaluation of HCNY. I believe that many owners bought there with that expectation.

That may be one reason why we are seeing some fire sale prices for HCNY on Ebay.

While I won't dump the property now I definitely feel like the value has been seriously diminished. The MFs are high, problem a bit higher than even W.57th, so why would you want to lock yourself into this property. As previously mentioned I have heard they MAY offer a roll over into 57th or Res for more $$ and same points, this to me is a complete ripoff! I am not optimistic what will happen next month but I will probably use he HCNY intermittently for a few years and then see what I can get for it. Left a bad taste in my mouth for other HGVC properties for sure.