HGVC Inheritance Question/Advice

[cpo32]

My father owns three HGVC timeshares: Trump (Vegas; 16,000 HC points; $2,700 MF) and two at The Residence (NYC; 11,500 bHC points each and $2,600 MF each). They were all bought retail, are paid in full and he's Max Premier. He's getting up there in age so I'm trying to do my research because I think he got hosed a bit and don't want to fall into the same traps. I have three siblings, but I don't think they are interested in timeshares and having to pay the annual MF. I'm a very detailed person and good with trying to maximize systems to get the most bang for my buck so I'm interested in taking it over. A little backstory. We live in NJ, so not sure why he purchased 2 in NYC as we can go in for a daytrip anytime we want and he barely go to Vegas. I think the salespeople sold these to him and told him having NYC was "More valuable" than owning other places. The city we visit most is Orlando. I have a couple of questions.

#1 As far as taking the timeshare over, is it better get my name on the deed now while he's still alive or wait to try and transfer it after he passes. Don't know if one is more difficult to do or not.
#2 Is there any major advantage to having bHC points vs. regular HC points. Does it allow you to do anything special.
#3 Paying close to $8,000 in MF each year seems high to me. Am I better off trying to sell one (or more) and buy resale someplace cheaper, someplace we will use more (or can book earlier), or someplace that offers other perks like Parc Soleil, Elara, or Craigendarroch. The perks of Max Premier don't seem to be that great so if I go down a tier, it doesn't seem like a big deal. I'm more comfortable with paying $4,000-$5,000 in MF each year.
#4 Am I silly to sell and purchase resale since he paid close to $20k for each of them.

Thanks for the help

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Congratulations on thinking ahead. You will get the most benefit now if you understand your options. Answers below:

#1 As far as taking the timeshare over, is it better get my name on the deed now while he's still alive or wait to try and transfer it after he passes. Don't know if one is more difficult to do or not.

- do not add your name now. When he eventually passes and leaves this to you, then you can either accept or decline the inheritance. If you change it now, you are stuck wit the maint fees whether you like it or not.
- Make sure the deeds are in his living-trust so it is easy to change names or dispose. Otherwise you may incur extra costs to put through probate.
- Instead, start using his ownership so you know whether you want to keep it. You can pay for his maintenance fees now but keep it in his name, for the reasons above.
- Tuggers on this thread can help you use the points for most advantage.

#2 Is there any major advantage to having bHC points vs. regular HC points. Does it allow you to do anything special.

- Yes. bHC should be used in NYC or used to exchange 32:1 into Hilton Honor points. These are more expensive than Club points.
- bHC offer special privileges. You also get breakfast and cocktail heavy appetizer lounge privileges at the Residences when staying there. Non owners do not get that.
- Premier Elite offers special privileges.

#3 Paying close to $8,000 in MF each year seems high to me. Am I better off trying to sell one (or more) and buy resale someplace cheaper, someplace we will use more (or can book earlier), or someplace that offers other perks like Parc Soleil, Elara, or Craigendarroch. The perks of Max Premier don't seem to be that great so if I go down a tier, it doesn't seem like a big deal. I'm more comfortable with paying $4,000-$5,000 in MF each year.

- Depends where you want to go. Never use expensive bHC points for Orlando. Trump is very expensive and a lousy deed.

1) Buy Craig to replace the points and gain Elite so you do not disrupt your Premier Elite Status. Parc Soleil and Elara will not add to legacy Premier Elite status.
2) After picking up Craig to keep PE, sell or give away the Trump which is expensive on a MF/point basis.

HGVC Premier Elite is NOT Max Premier. Search for the chart on HGVC legacy Premier Elite benefits. IMHO...HGVC legacy has better perks than MAX Premier. The only way you would get Max Premier is if you purchased from developer.

- Suggest that you try a stay at the Residences and see if it is worth keeping. If you keep bHC and go down a tier, you can pay for AI and keep free reservations. If you keep Premier Elite, then don't pay for AI because you are double paying for free reservations. You would have to evaluate whether it is worth paying $2000 - $3000 in transaction fees to pick up an EOY bHC. or just keep one or both of your residences to avoid reservation fees - or just pay the reservation fees.

#4 Am I silly to sell and purchase resale since he paid close to $20k for each of them.

Nope. Resale is the way to go. Every owner on this board sells and adds to our ownership portfolio as situations change to gain max value.

Good luck. Please keep us updated.

 

[Chris-ATX]

Some great suggestions and perspectives from @CalGalTraveler !

 

[SmithOp]

I'd get rid of Trump and one bHC and pick up a cheap Vegas deed with the proceeds.

- NY bHC deeds are nice to own but you don't seem to want to take advantage of the benefits. Keeping one would let you get the All Inclusive deal that eliminates a lot of HGV junk fees, like free reservations. This will be valuable if you make several reservations each year. You might want to consider using short stays in NY, as you say it's close by but might be nice to stay overnight when attending late events in NY.

- I don't agree with waiting or using a trust to avoid probate, it will be easier while he is alive. HGV has a department that can handle family transfers. I think NY deeds are a little more involved to transfer so having HGV take care of it is the easiest way. If you keep it in his name you will need a guest certificate ($) every time you use it unless he is there to check in with you (bHC AI eliminates the certificate fee).

#4 If he only paid $20k a deed he got a good deal, those deeds retail a lot higher.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

FYI...Guest certificates are free with Premier Elite. Not with AI (only reservations are free). OP would be able to use free guest certs to stay at all of the properties as long as OP keeps the Legacy HGVC Premier Elite status. This is why Craig is critical to maintaining this Elite status after s/he dumps Trump deed.

If OP wants to trade out the Residences to keep Legacy Premier Elite then would need to buy more Craig or Florida Gulf deeds to keep the points values at threshold levels before selling Residences.

He got a great deal with these deeds. I don't believe Residences ever sold for $20k. IMHO These must have been upgrades from other deeds traded in.

 

[SmithOp]

Based on this post it might be cheaper just to pay cash to stay in Orlando, it's overbuilt with timeshares. I have an Interval account and can always find cash Getaways in Orlando for less than maintenance fees.

Still want Max?

Still think Max is worth it when you can get rooms for 10k HH per night? I wish I were at retirement age—I could easily spend a few months here. Max doesn’t seem worth it when you can book nights for just 10k HH points per night, with even the best 3-bedroom option at only 15k HH points per...

tugbbs.com

 

[IrishDave]

#1 As far as taking the timeshare over, is it better get my name on the deed now while he's still alive or wait to try and transfer it after he passes. Don't know if one is more difficult to do or not.

- do not add your name now. When he eventually passes and leaves this to you, then you can either accept or decline the inheritance. If you change it now, you are stuck wit the maint fees whether you like it or not.
- Make sure the deeds are in his living-trust so it is easy to change names or dispose. Otherwise you may incur extra costs to put through probate.

Not to side track the thread and I know that internet message boards are no place to get/make legal advice, but it was my understanding that deeds in a trust cannot be declined as an inheritance. The trust owns the property (no owner change at death) and all that changes is the trustee, hence no probate and no opportunity to decline. Again just my understanding and I am definitely not a lawyer!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Not to side track the thread and I know that internet message boards are no place to get/make legal advice, but it was my understanding that deeds in a trust cannot be declined as an inheritance. The trust owns the property (no owner change at death) and all that changes is the trustee, hence no probate and no opportunity to decline. Again just my understanding and I am definitely not a lawyer!

I am not a lawyer. Perhaps @LeslieDet can weigh in on this. It is my understanding that the executor will have control to distribute and dispose of any assets in the trust without probate cost and effort. The distributed trust eventually dissolves and the timeshares with it if there is no other recourse to give away or deed back.

Currently most HGVCs are desireable and can be given away if everything is paid off on them. If it were me I would try to give it away or sell the Trump now vs. waiting because the value of that will only get worse..

If outside the trust the executor may not have power to do anything with the assets or need to spend effort on probate lawyers AFAIK which could cloud the ability to deed back the assets to HGVC or sell them.

Craig and several others are RTUs which is like owning a golf club membership. Those do not need to be held in a trust because they are not real property. They are much easier to exit because they do not involve a deed.

NY and Nevada are NOT anti-deficiency states, so they could come after the estate for back MF but likely not worth the effort given the cost of lawyers. They would rather focus on re-acquiring the timeshare back in foreclosure because they would get nothing from the estate trust if there is nothing remaining in it after distribution other than the timeshares. This is why they likely will raise a fuss but in the end opt to deedback the timeshare given the legal cost and hassle of the alternative.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I would use his points to stay at the properties you are interested in to see if you like them.

 

[jp10558]

I can't speak to the elite status - Does it get you discounts other than the reservation fees? Part of the calculus to me would be - How many reservations do you think you'd make a year and how many for people other than you to check in? The reason I ask is if you were going to use 2 one week long stays each year, you probably have enough points from bHC there, and the "junk fees" would be ~$200 each year, which is a lot less than $2,700 to keep the Trump. Of course, if you do think you'd use the whole point allotment most years, then you do need to keep or recreate, and dumping Trump for Craig would be a great idea IMO. However, given the booking fee is still under $100, you have to figure how many bookings you'd make with how many points you could use before taking on the MFs. You can get Craig for ~$6,500 each for 11,200pts with ~$1,200 MFs currently. So if you don't make a LOT of bookings, or want to stay at The Residence I don't think it's worth keeping any of those deeds necessarily, if you can make the initial costs for getting cheaper MF deeds work with whatever you sell.

Of course, if you're liquidating, then you probably ought to basically try out the locations with the points he has now and see if you even want HGVC at all. Orlando is super easy to book - there was that post about Mystic Dunes (not HGVC though) for 10,000 Hilton Honors (hotel) points on various dates, and you can also book via RCI or II for ~$800 a week a 2BR somewhere around Orlando pretty much whenever. Of course, to get in you do need some timeshare to get the account. That said, I've heard there are the vacation clubs you can see posted about elsewhere on the forum that can get you free access to RCI I guess so it might be worth looking there. Basically Orlando should not be a reason to own really.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

think he got hosed a bit and don't want to fall into the same traps

my 2 cents: you are running full-speed toward the traps

we visit most is Orlando

The city, along with LV, where you can almost certainly rent a nice place for same $s or fewer $s than you'd pay in MFs.

is it better get my name on the deed now while he's still alive or wait to try and transfer it

Frankie says: Relax. Don't do it.

Am I silly to sell and purchase resale since he paid close to $20k for each of them

what he paid has nothing to do with your decision. Sunk cost, etc. Honestly, the fact that he owns TSs has nothing to do with your decision. If they have value. have him sell them. You have given no clear (not even murky) reason why YOU are the right owner for these. Maybe the Bible got it right:
"TSs of the fathers are visited upon the sons and daughters"

 

[Nomad420]

FYI...Guest certificates are free with Premier Elite. Not with AI (only reservations are free). OP would be able to use free guest certs to stay at all of the properties as long as OP keeps the Legacy HGVC Premier Elite status. This is why Craig is critical to maintaining this Elite status after s/he dumps Trump deed.

If OP wants to trade out the Residences to keep Legacy Premier Elite then would need to buy more Craig or Florida Gulf deeds to keep the points values at threshold levels before selling Residences.

He got a great deal with these deeds. I don't believe Residences ever sold for $20k. IMHO These must have been upgrades from other deeds traded in.T

I was thinking the same thing, The Residences never was sold by the developer for $20K for 16K points. I looked at them during construction and remember getting quoted 6 figure prices years back by the Hilton. If that is what his father got that is a good deal even in the current resale market for that location.

Also, and not to beat a dead horse here as this was discussed on another thread, but I was told a couple years back that bHC members did get the guest cert fee back/no charge as smithOP stated. I know several others have said that is not the case including brp who seems to know the deal in NYC/bHC quite well. From my memory I got this from a HGVC reservation agent but I think we would all agree that source can be far from accurate .... LOL

 

[LeslieDet]

Not to side track the thread and I know that internet message boards are no place to get/make legal advice, but it was my understanding that deeds in a trust cannot be declined as an inheritance. The trust owns the property (no owner change at death) and all that changes is the trustee, hence no probate and no opportunity to decline. Again just my understanding and I am definitely not a lawyer!

Just FYI - having ownership in a revocable living trust avoids probate. It doesn't foist ownership upon any beneficiary. The successor trustee isn't going to forcefully convey an unwanted title on a beneficiary. Rather, the successor trustee then disposes of ownership of the unwanted asset in some other manner. Remember, it isn't about declining assets, it is about avoiding probate. When heirs decline a bequest, it doesn't cause the asset to evaporate, the executor must still deal with disposal, and that requires probate and associated costs.

 

[brp]

All Inclusive deal that eliminates a lot of HGV junk fees, like free reservations.

Just to be specific here, the reservation fee is the only junk fee that AI removes.

Cheers.