Help me understand resale better please! Are these points worth a dime?

[stark666]

I have read the primer (twice) and Timeshares for Dummies, and I canceled / rescinded my Bonnet Creek contract within 1 day of buying it due to the advice I got here. But now I am paralyzed. I was sure I wanted to buy with the point system offered by the developer, but now every property I look at has something I'm not sure about:

Does it come with RCI membership? How many points are enough? Those MF are too high for me...yada yada yada.

What should I look for in resale beside high points, low MF and RCI or II membership? I will probably never travel to the same place twice and I can travel on short notice. But so much confusing advice is out there! One guy says you don't get RCI points with resale, only RCI weeks. Does that matter in my case? I'm hopelessly intrigued by the prospect of resale, but part of me just says, fuggetaboutit and rent every time. There are so many nay-sayers! Someone help me who bought resale! Tell me there is hope in the RCI 28K trades even for a resale points property!

 

[stark666]

Anybody out there?

I got no love from that last one. Is there anyone who is a resale only purchaser of points deeded property who can tell me the benefits?

 

[ausman]

You seem to have most of it right.

I purchased from the developer through ignorance and have purchased resale since.

Renting is attractive and in these times I'd consider it as the ongoing MF's can become burdensome.

Resale points do get to do the 28K trades and the "free" RCI account but in your reading you should have read these are used mainly in overbuilt areas and off season elsewhere.

Perhaps you should try renting from a VIP Wyndham owner first. Discounts can be passed along and they are usually experienced owners who have lower MF properties

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Got My RCI Points Resale.

One guy says you don't get RCI points with resale, only RCI weeks. Does that matter in my case? I'm hopelessly intrigued by the prospect of resale, but part of me just says, fuggetaboutit and rent every time. There are so many nay-sayers! Someone help me who bought resale! Tell me there is hope in the RCI 28K trades even for a resale points property!

There's RCI Points & there's Wyndham FairShare Plus points.

Buy a bunch of Wyndham points -- resale -- & you're good to go for various Wyndham timeshare reservations within the Wyndham system without even messing with RCI or RCI Points.

In short, buy timeshare(s) resale & you are ahead of the game, period. Everything else is details -- & as you have discovered, there are plenty of details.

Whussup with the guy who said you can't get RCI Points resale ?

Or did that guy say something else -- e.g., that you get an RCI Weeks membership when you buy resale into Wyndham, but not an RCI Points membership when you buy resale into Wyndham ?

As I understand it -- feebly, because we are not Wyndham owners, & we've only been minimally exposed to Wyndham via 2 sales pitches & via reading stuff on TUG-BBS -- as I understand it your Wyndham annual fee includes both maintenance fees on your (resale) points and a Wyndham "club" fee that covers points-based reservations within the Wyndham system, plus some kind of participatory membership in RCI at no additional charge (i.e., it's covered by your Wyndham "club" fee).

What that associated RCI membership gets you when you're in Wyndham via resale, I do not know. It's mox nix as long as all your reservations are within the Wyndham internal system. But it's not mox nix if you are angling for exchanges into non-Wyndham timeshares. How that works for Wyndham owners is a mystery to me -- whether it's strictly RCI Weeks, or whether it also covers points, & specially how it works regarding any other non-Wyndham timeshares you also own that trade within RCI Weeks or RCI Points, & in particular whether your Wydham-based "free" RCI membership lets you do Points For Deposit with your non-Wyndham & non-points RCI timeshares.

That's what I mean by complicated.

But if you get your timeshare(s) resale, you're basically OK & you can take your time working through all those semi-complex details.

Just remember that nothing the timeshare companies sell at full freight is worth the money.

Buy timeshares resale. Save thousands of dollars on exactly the same thing, or the equivalent, or something even better.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Culli]

We bought 651k points resale, 4 contracts. I started out with 203k pts and learned as I went about some of the nuances of the product. It works good for me and I learned what to look for and don't mind taking a chance. I got lucky and for the most part the process went ok but in the long run it all worked out perfect.

You will get a free RCI weeks membership NOT a RCI pts membership. You can not use wyndham pts in RCI pts. If your goal into use mainly RCI I don't know if Wyn is the way to go, I would suggest leaning about the RCI pt system or something else other than Wyn. RCI is a nice way to use your Wyn pts for variety and other options but I don't suggest it as the main vehicle. Wyn pts for the most part work best for Wyn resorts. Wyn has a good size inventory of properties and locations. Yes you can get some good trades for a blue studio (28k deposit) deposit in RCI. As far as II goes, some of the Wyn resorts do trade in II and if that is the case you get a choice of a free RCI or II membership. Now keep in mind although it is free you are paying for it indirectly through your Wyn fees.

I'm by no means an expert but from reading TUG and trial and error with my membership I feel I got a good grasp of how to use the system fairly efficiently. Many more out here that can give you more detailed advice.

As far as what to buy, look at the pt charts figure out how you want to vacation. I try to keep my MF under $5 per 1k pts and again I think I did well as I'm at $4.66 for all my Wyn MF contracts rolled up. Some things I learned through trial and error when buying is the obvious check out the seller feedback, do a search on tug for the seller and know enough to see if the ad makes sense. If it doesn't seem to make sense just ignore it and look at a different listing. If you do find something insist on an estoppel that will have MF and other things on it. If you are savvy you might be able to call Wyn and verify some of the items. INSIST on an estopel, they eventually will get you one or they are not worth talking too. Then close your eyes and push the submit button on your bid!!! The process will take 2-6 months to get through Wyn before you can use it. It isn't that hard and when I think of the $65-130k I saved it was worth my due diligence to see it through. You will learn a lot about the product going through the process. With Wyn at 10months out pts are pts it doesn't matter where you own except for the MFs you pay. So unless you need a certain resort at a certain time I recommend finding the cheapest per 1k MFs you can find.

TS and TS resale is not for everyone. I love to find good deals and consider it a hobby and actually enjoy the learning process. If you are a person that likes to have someone else handle stuff for you and don't plan in advance....TS is probably not for you. If you do enjoy finding ways to make the most of your purchase and will do the research it can be a great bargain way to travel. I honestly love the "thrill of the hunt" almost as much as the vacation.

Good luck and I hope this provided you some useful information?

 

[stark666]

Thanks again TUG

I am building confidence that buying the Wyndham points resale is going to be my thing. First I will rent one Wyndham place for a week, then I will look on eBay again. Thanks Alan Cole for taking the time to say so much again, you offered to mentor this military man a few weeks ago, but I lost the contact info. You found me again.

The other responses helped fill in the key blanks. I was not sure all Wyndham's could use RCI weeks, but it seems they do. I Will take the plunge, but only now I am much better armed.!!!!!

 

[Culli]

I am building confidence that buying the Wyndham points resale is going to be my thing. First I will rent one Wyndham place for a week, then I will look on eBay again. Thanks Alan Cole for taking the time to say so much again, you offered to mentor this military man a few weeks ago, but I lost the contact info. You found me again.

The other responses helped fill in the key blanks. I was not sure all Wyndham's could use RCI weeks, but it seems they do. I Will take the plunge, but only now I am much better armed.!!!!!

I think most Wyn resorts are RCI affiliated, you may find a few here or there that might not be, but is easy to check on. One more thing, make sure you know the difference between Wyn pts and Wyn resorts that are fixed weeks (such as having a week 25 at Wyn resort x). Believe it or not I have seen a post or two about people having a fixed week and can't figure out why they can't use the Wyn pts system. Also pay attention to offers that pay all closing costs, they tend to have very high MFs. When bidding figure out the cost of the total package, as newer resorts (Bonnet Creek) might go for a small premium as do contracts with low MFs.

 

[GadgetRick]

Well, you're doing the right thing in buying resale and coming here for advice. There are lots of smart people around here.

First thing I would say is, renting a week from a Wyndham owner won't really tell you much except whether the particular resort you're renting at is any good. Since you said you will go all over, this isn't going to really help you much. You're not going to learn anything about the program. Not saying you shouldn't rent, just saying you're not going to learn much out of it in regards to the decision you're making.

Others are correct in saying you get an RCI weeks account not points. What does this mean? Well, it does (somewhat) limit what you can do within the RCI framework. You can still deposit Wyndham points for weeks within the RCI system but your trade power is somewhat diminished (from what I've learned) and you cannot use RCI for a few days--you must take a whole week. There are other things I don't know of I'm sure. Others can chime in.

You will, however, gain access to RCI's specials--I just booked one for Easter week for a great price. So, to me, this is the most valuable part of having an RCI weeks account.

Wyndham does have an extremely flexible system. They have a TON of resorts all over the place. So you'll be able to go most places you want to go within the Wyndham system. You'll also gain access to Worldmark, however, I've heard it's a little more difficult to get into a Worldmark resort. I don't know this firsthand, however, so I don't really know.

Another option would be doing one of the RCI leases available. Basically, you lease RCI points for a 3 year period. It's not terribly expensive and you're out after 3 years if you don't like it. These are true RCI points memberships. I forget who offers them but if you search here on TUG you'll find it.

Hope this helps?

 

[bnoble]

With regards to Wyndham and RCI:

For the most part, I think the best reason to own Wyndham points is to use them in the system, in high-demand time. Exchanging Wyn points into RCI is a very tricky business, and has gotten even harder after the May '09 revaluation. It does give you inexpensive access to off-season, over-deposited, or last-minute inventory, but it takes a fair amount of effort to make it work for you. There are also some opportunities for using deposits to "trade up" within the Wyndham system, but this is not as easy as it once was.

 

[hjtug]

We own a small number of points in two every-other-year contracts. The first was purchased from the developer and the second bought resale. The points are in one account and treated exactly the same. We trade through II since the first purchase was at Governors Green. It sounds like you are looking for RCI but trading our points through II seems to work well.

 

[Bill4728]

Please note:

If you buy at a wyn resort, you may be buying one of three things:

-A week at a resort managed by Wyn but not a "wyndham" TS at all. ( there are some wyndham resorts which have 2 or 3 different TS systems which owns weeks at that resort)

-A week at a resort managed by Wyn but a "wyndham week" TS not associated with Wyn points (for some people this is exactly what they want. Like buying a TS in Hawaii when all they ever want to do is go to that one TS. Buying a non point week is the way to go for them) These TS can be converted to Wyn pts but the cost is so high (>$3000) that it isn't worth it.

-Finally, A week at a resort managed by Wyn and a wyndham points TS. This is what you want if you plan to use Wyn pts to go to the many different wyn resorts or trade in RCI weeks.

All TSs currently sold by the developer Wyndham are in Wyn pts.

Good Luck

 

[stark666]

I think I will pull the trigger! Give me a last sanity check?

I found a property for $95 +495 closing with 126000 points and $40 MF. I will likely never visit this resort, but I don't care. What do you think?

 

[Culli]

I found a property for $95 +495 closing with 126000 points and $40 MF. I will likely never visit this resort, but I don't care. What do you think?

I think the MF are wrong

 

[AwayWeGo]

$40 x 12 ?

I think the MF are wrong

Not sure, but possibly that timeshare company expresses maintenance fees as a monthly amount rather than 1 annual total.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Culli]

Not sure, but possibly that timeshare company expresses maintenance fees as a monthly amount rather than 1 annual total.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

I'm assuming this is a wyn property and that still comes out to $3.80 per 1k which is not impossible but unlikely especially if it going for $95. If that is the case my guess it is an EOY and the $40 is monthly which would put the MF at $7.61 which would be very high and not a good buy.

Regardless it shows more info is needed to make a solid decision.

 

[stark666]

MF $40 Monthly

Seller says MF are $40 monthly includes taxes but does not know what an estoppel is.

Wyndham property, Pagossa in Colorado. It sounds better than any offer I've seriously considered, if there are no surprises.

 

[Bill4728]

Seller says MF are $40 monthly includes taxes but does not know what an estoppel is.

Estoppel is a letter from the resort verifying the info about the unit. So it will say that the person owns a 2 bd unit during peak season and that the unit is enrolled in Wyn pts and current MF are and if there are any past due accounts.

 

[bnoble]

Culli is right. The MF are wrong.

According to the MF spreadsheet over at the Wyn owners' board, Pagosa has eight different associations. Two are UDI, six are fixed week. The cheapest fixed week, at Masters Place, has MFs are $474/year. That's $40/month just for the MFs, and you still have to add FSP fees to that number---at 126K, FSP fees are $107 and change, for a monthly amount of $48.48. The cheapest UDI is Teal Landing, at $4.26/K, plus FSP fee. Total for 126K there is $53.71/month.

Both are (a little) better than average for the system, if you figure "average" has crept up to $5.25. But, neither is $40/month, so the seller is just plain wrong. That leaves pretty much everything in doubt.

 

[Culli]

I own at pagosa and my 154k pts averages to 4.56. If it truely is only $40 then great deal but I think something might be missing and if the seller doesn't know what an estopel is I would be nervous. Is this an ebay listing or just some person you know?

 

[stark666]

Thanks

The seller is on eBay with a verified SquareTrade Travel number. I will hit him up with this.

 

[Culli]

I just was checking to see if I could find the listing Stark66 was talking about and there is one for 11 million pts:hysterical: :rofl: :hysterical: :rofl:

 

[stark666]

11 Million points?

I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or if I missed something???

The guy has two Pagosa Springs timeshares, one for 80,000 pts and one for 126,000. He claims the MF are $75 total, he wants about $1000 total for both. Seems good, but not too good to be true. Or???

 

[bnoble]

No, not making fun. Just noticing another auction going on at the same time.

Here's the thing. If your seller honestly believes that the 126K deed carries fees of $40/month, s/he is just wrong, because there isn't any possible underlying ownership at any of the Pagosa HOAs with fees low enough to make the math work out.

So, you have to ask yourself: If that's wrong, what else in the listing is wrong?

There are a *LOT* of Wyndham deeds available for sale, and more come onto the market every day. My personal bias is: why take the risk buying from someone who doesn't know what they are selling, when you can buy another deed that is just as attractive from someone who does? All it takes is patience, but patience is important because it is very easy to buy one of these, but very hard to sell it if you goof up. And, relying on Wyndham to catch any mistakes during transfer is dubious at best. Several folks have had deeds transferred into their names, only to find that there were back dues owed. Guess who gets to pay those?

For what it's worth, Square Trade doesn't mean much---it means they own a timeshare. And, many of these sellers are clearinghouses for postcard companies---they handle dozens of deeds every week, and inevitably get some details wrong from time to time. If this is your first timeshare purchase, I'd recommend going with a reseller with a solid reputation, so that you know you are getting an accurate representation. Three names that come to mind are Angel England or Jeff Fudge at RPMI, and Tom Cornelius, who is an independent reseller. There are others, as well. My initial purchase was from Tom. I probably spent a few dollars more buying it, but I knew what I was buying without having to figure out everything on my own, because Tom is careful. The others will be too.

Finally, and most importantly, take your time. There's no reason to hurry, because as I said, there are always new deeds coming, and if you buy the wrong one, you're probably going to own it for a long long time.

 

[stark666]

Thanks

I'm taking my time and this one struck me as very good, but your cautionary advice falls right on the spot in my brain that doubted this guy. I will keep looking. I can't take vacation for a long time anyway.

 

[Culli]

I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or if I missed something???

The guy has two Pagosa Springs timeshares, one for 80,000 pts and one for 126,000. He claims the MF are $75 total, he wants about $1000 total for both. Seems good, but not too good to be true. Or???

No absolutely not making fun of you sorry if you thought that, you are asking all the right questions. I just happened to see someone on ebay selling 11 million pts on one auction and thought it was hilarious. I couldn't find the listing you referenced. But here is what I did for my contracts.

1. I searched ebay and searched listings for MFs under $5 per 1k. I found this to be fun and would check anywhere from hourly to weekly depending on my mood.
2. I then reviewed the sellers feedback and used my own "ebay knowledge" to see if I felt comfortable with them as a dealer.
3. I came to tug and did a search on the user to see if it got any "hits" and read them.
4. If they passed sniff test I would contact seller and ask for estopel. If they wouldn't give it to me or gave me hard time I would respond that others gave it to me and I will not bid without it. Never had a problem. They may blackout the personal info of the person.
5. I review estopel vs the ebay listing for accuracy, I find one or two mistakes and verify with seller. - keep in mind they basically copy and paste the info as they sell thousands of these so I don't get to worked up about a minor mistake. RUN if they have no idea what they are talking about. The estopel is pretty self explanatory when you see one.
6. I then put in my head what I feel I would pay "total cost" for the package and then go bid. If it is free clsoing what do I care if I pay $500 for it vs paying $100 and $400 in closing costs? Keep in mind you might pay a small premium up front for property that has low MFs or is a newer resort such as Bonnet Creek.
7. If I win I follow the process and in 2-6 months have my pts. I call every few weeks for status etc. I had a few hicups and have had money reimbursed to me by closing company or seller. I hold them to the estopel etc, I had one company reimb 1/2 my closing costs(about$200). The error was actually Wyndham but I called and yelled at closing company etc as Wyn can be hard to deal with. So basically to shut me up they sent me a check and worked with Wyn to resolve.
8. It can be a bit nerve racking but I find it exciting and somewhat of a hobby. Worse case if someone was stealing from me I would be out a grand. This is unlikely and worth the risk for the tens of thousands I was saving.

I'm not sure if this helps or not but this is how I bought my 4 contracts. There are many more knowledgeable people with more experience than I have but this is my 2 cents on my recent experiences.

I used TUG and credit them for almost everything I learned. Then the whole getting in and trial and error fills in the blanks. You probably already know more then 95% of Wyn owners just by what you have done already.

Again sorry if you thought the 11 mil pt comment was aimed at you....it was not!